(Topic ID: 228907)

STNG "Recycling" pinballs at end of game

By doctorpinhead

5 years ago


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#1 5 years ago

After years of flawless play I've developed a problem with STNG that I can't seem to figure out. The problem began when i turned the machine on and it started shooting balls up and "recycling" and never stopped. Test menu showed 3 switch errors 31, Borg Lock; 48, Borg; and 57 top drop. Borg lock and Borg went away after pressing on the switch several times and never has recurred. Top drop more difficult...checked all wires, contacts, replaced fuse F103 (which looked ok), did solenoid test, checked all switches and optos , did a factory reset and even replaced the 3 AA batteries. Nothing seemed to fix that error and the problem of the recycled balls continued. Then, for what ever reason, 3 days ago the error went away and nothing showed up on the test menu.(except time and date not set) Yet the problem or recycling balls continued. I saw the post from 2 years ago about trying 5 balls instead of 6, so I did T18 test (clear all balls) and 6 balls where ejected so there were no lost balls. I took one off the playing field and started up the game. It worked!,and I was able to play the game to completion, and i could see top drop target going up and down as it should. However, when game ended, it didn't stop but started recycling the balls again and again and again. Only stopped when i added the 6th ball back. Problem continues, on start up it just keeps shooting the balls. (note, the top drop target is always down on startup so the balls just go down the top outhole) Any help would be appreciated. thanks

#2 5 years ago
Quoted from doctorpinhead:

After years of flawless play I've developed a problem with STNG that I can't seem to figure out. The problem began when i turned the machine on and it started shooting balls up and "recycling" and never stopped. Test menu showed 3 switch errors 31, Borg Lock; 48, Borg; and 57 top drop. Borg lock and Borg went away after pressing on the switch several times and never has recurred. Top drop more difficult...checked all wires, contacts, replaced fuse F103 (which looked ok), did solenoid test, checked all switches and optos , did a factory reset and even replaced the 3 AA batteries. Nothing seemed to fix that error and the problem of the recycled balls continued. Then, for what ever reason, 3 days ago the error went away and nothing showed up on the test menu.(except time and date not set) Yet the problem or recycling balls continued. I saw the post from 2 years ago about trying 5 balls instead of 6, so I did T18 test (clear all balls) and 6 balls where ejected so there were no lost balls. I took one off the playing field and started up the game. It worked!,and I was able to play the game to completion, and i could see top drop target going up and down as it should. However, when game ended, it didn't stop but started recycling the balls again and again and again. Only stopped when i added the 6th ball back. Problem continues, on start up it just keeps shooting the balls. (note, the top drop target is always down on startup so the balls just go down the top outhole) Any help would be appreciated. thanks

90% chance it is a problem with the optos in your ball trough. Clean them, make sure they are all working and do not have any intermittent connections. Also make sure the trough isn't magnetized or have any divots that could cause the balls to hang up or not move freely to where they belong. If that doesn't help, check the optos in the subway and again look for any ball hangups. Sometimes a wire can hang low in there. I would also go over that drop target good and make sure it is working correctly.

#3 5 years ago

And finally if all else above fails check the subway diverters. If the game can’t get the ball to one of the three VUKs it’s trying to load the same symptom may occur. But I agree with jediturtle, start with the optos.

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from Jediturtle:

90% chance it is a problem with the optos in your ball trough. Clean them, make sure they are all working and do not have any intermittent connections. Also make sure the trough isn't magnetized or have any divots that could cause the balls to hang up or not move freely to where they belong. If that doesn't help, check the optos in the subway and again look for any ball hangups. Sometimes a wire can hang low in there. I would also go over that drop target good and make sure it is working correctly.

Jediturtle and andre060, thanks much for prompt reply. Will give it a try this PM. Stay tuned ....

#5 5 years ago

I had to tech a buddies machine with this problem. I put the game in single switch test and watched the matrix as I triggered each switch. I noticed one switch flickering when I tested the other switches by coincidence. In single switch you select each switch and when trigger is makes a sound. However, other switches will not make a sound if triggered. I just happen to look up at the DMD and saw another switch flicker. I knew I found the culprit. It was the drop target switch diode was bad. Drop target switches take more abuse because the up and down motion of the mechanism. The fact that your drop target isn't resetting leads me to believe this is the issue.

#6 5 years ago

Cleaned the ball trough optos. Checked with a camera to make sure all optos working and then double checked by doing a switch test with a opto and each opto triggered. Reassembled and dropped balls in one after another while watching switch test. 1-2-3-4-5-6 all worked fine. Restarted and problem not resolved. Continues to just recycle. Never loads the cannons, just fire---down the top out hole---repeat. My machine is located next to a beam in the basement so i have to wait for help to move machine away to pull playing field up completely to check diverter so will have to wait until i can get some help with that. A question, how do i do drop target switch test? Target is always down so nothing to press on, switch seems to be below playing field, correct? I can pull the target up, but as soon as i turn machine on, it pops down.

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from doctorpinhead:

Cleaned the ball trough optos. Checked with a camera to make sure all optos working and then double checked by doing a switch test with a opto and each opto triggered. Reassembled and dropped balls in one after another while watching switch test. 1-2-3-4-5-6 all worked fine. Restarted and problem not resolved. Continues to just recycle. Never loads the cannons, just fire---down the top out hole---repeat. My machine is located next to a beam in the basement so i have to wait for help to move machine away to pull playing field up completely to check diverter so will have to wait until i can get some help with that. A question, how do i do drop target switch test? Target is always down so nothing to press on, switch seems to be below playing field, correct? I can pull the target up, but as soon as i turn machine on, it pops down.

Yes, the switch is under the playfield. When the target drops, it triggers it. Keep in mind, IIRC, the target drops during the start of a game to load and stage the balls under the cannons. However, it should pop up once the balls are staged.

#8 5 years ago

What happens if you manually stage the 3 balls and then turn on game?

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from wdennie:

What happens if you manual stage the 3 balls and then turn on game?

"Manually stage' as in one in each cannon and one in the shooter, or just drop 3 down into the ball trough?

Thanks...

#10 5 years ago

one in both cannon up kicks and 1 in the second one on the left, forgive me don't have the correct names.
sound like either you have a bad optic in the trough or a diverter that isn't staging one of the balls correctly.
I ran into this same problem with mine once, the right cannon diverter wasn't adjusted right and the
ball that should of gone into the right cannon, keep going into the out kick hole, so it keep recycling the balls

#11 5 years ago

putting a ball in each VUK and starting game (3 balls) didn't work. If i start the game, it recycles balls until i pull one off the playing field. That stops the recycling. Then i press new game and i get message "looking for ball location" or something like that and it continues to do that until i add the 6th ball back to the game. Then when i press credit button, game starts fine, drop target pops up and game works fine, until, game over...ie 3rd ball lost and then it just keeps recycling the balls again.

#12 5 years ago

And your optic's are all ok in the VUK's ? (switch test) there's like 1 for each cannon vuk's and 3 or 4 in the regular VUK.
sound like its kicking one out because it doesn't see a ball in the VUK

#14 5 years ago

Think this may be the problem, very difficult to move....will check it out

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from doctorpinhead:

Think this may be the problem, very difficult to move....will check it out

That's it. Pull off the subway and clean them all. The subway looks intimidating but its not that difficult to remove. Clean and lightly re grease all those diverters.

Also for reference

#16 5 years ago

Took apart, can see the point of binding in the picture because of heat blistering. Can't get sleeve out easily....push harder or need new coil and sleeve?

IMG_2568 (resized).jpgIMG_2568 (resized).jpg
#17 5 years ago

Probably a new coil and sleeve is required. Also try and figure out why it looks like that. If it's overheated by being locked on due to a defect transistor or something like that, you can replace it but eventually run into the same problem.

#18 5 years ago
Quoted from Jediturtle:

90% chance it is a problem with the optos in your ball trough.

100% chance this is not correct, this is a ball staging issue. ...sorry

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from doctorpinhead:

Think this may be the problem, very difficult to move....will check it out

nailed it!

#20 5 years ago

If your coil sleeve blistered like that then it is possible that the coil stuck on due to a fried transistor. Possibly as a result of the dreaded tie-back diode (lots of information on that out there). That was the root cause of that same issue on my (previously perfectly playing) vSTTNG last year.

Good luck.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from doctorpinhead:

Took apart, can see the point of binding in the picture because of heat blistering. Can't get sleeve out easily....push harder or need new coil and sleeve?

yeah...you may want to look over this post:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/star-trek-the-next-generation-start-up-problems

Take a good look at the aux driver board in the upper right corner of your backbox. These usually fry pretty good when the tieback wire breaks.

#22 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

100% chance this is not correct, this is a ball staging issue. ...sorry

Pinguy is the expert. He got mine running.

#23 5 years ago

Coil, sleeve and plunger ordered. Will check optos etc in meantime. Will followup in 4-5 days when have installed coil etc. thanks all for your help....fabulous!

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

100% chance this is not correct, this is a ball staging issue. ...sorry

Easy to say that now with the additional info...

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from Jediturtle:

Easy to say that now with the additional info...

No additional information was needed, its a classic ball staging issue. I actually post to threads as I read through them and there is a 0% chance that a ball staging issue will ever be related to a ball trough opto ... nor will it be a subway opto; for clarity, while the VUKs are under the payfield and are connected to the subway, they are not considered part or the subway.

Only the parts shown here are part of the subway:

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#26 5 years ago

Follow Up...Parts came today, replaced coil, sleeve, plunger. Cleaned etc. All works fine now. Thanks to everybody for their help. Final Diagnosis...diverter problem.

#27 5 years ago

Diverter

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