Not even close in my book. I think it has more to do with lighting, bling factor and looks, not game play.

It's good, and I'd say top 10 is a possibility. I do think Star Trek should be under AC/DC and MET though.

You know how ratings go. I still think TSPP is a better game than most of what's in the Top 10 but that's my opinion. Something I do notice is that STLE has about half the ratings of ACDC which I think should be part of a calculation but these things are grain of salt anyway. I do personally enjoy ST more than ACDC but I haven't had enough time on ACDC to know the longer outcome of play - the theme doesn't do it for me though. I love the ST theme, sounds, call outs so it's up there more for me.

no

I feel with the code update, it is. I own one and it's much much better after the update. Then again, I feel STTNG should be top 10, too.

Not that ratings mean anything, but no, I don't feel ST (much less the poor premium/LE) is a top10 game. Not even top 100.

STLE is 8.476

No Good Gofers is 8.021 and sitting at #34

Lighting, looks and bling factor can make up the difference. Game play rating not even close to top 10.

Yes!

Why shouldn't it? The ratings take all of those into account. It isn't a top 100 for playability, it's overall score. STLE is a "bling" machine for certain.

That would also mean a future title with all the bling AND ultimate ruleset should take it out.

STLE is the most visually stunning game stern has ever released. Shame they didn't come up with another LE that looked as nice. Tron LE came close.

I agree. STLE is probably the best looking pin that I've ever owned out of the box. It's going to score high points in a lot of areas where aesthetics are involved. AC/DC generally gets lower scores in the aesthetics department.

Still, I'd think the game play and rules on AC/DC would be more than high enough to keep it well in front of ST overall.

STLE edges out both AC/DC and MET for me in terms of gameplay. It has that perfect level of difficulty where you always feel like you're getting somewhere in the game only for it to be ended by a swift kick to the nuts. AC/DC can just be a series of nut kicks a lot of the time with no joy and MET just has a chopping wood feel to it until you start to get it going. To each their own but I think STLE is code perfection wrapped in gorgeous bling.

Yes, STLE is a top 10 game, but it is a notch below ACDC LE and just above MET LE... All three games should actually be in the top 10 IMO... The 90's Williams and Bally games get a lot of fanfare due to their nostalgia, but overall these new Stern titles have better rule sets, stunning lighting and aesthetics and interactive features that enhance game play compared to some that are currently on the list.

I hear you. It's gorgeous. But I hear all the time that game play is mostly what matters.

I like the looks factor and all that but Rob makes a good point, Ac/DC gets downgraded on looks and yet most people would put it far ahead of ST on game play/rules. Not everybody obviously

My point is there isn't a whole lot of difference between 7 and 34 and when I think of ratings it's about the fun factor and game play for me

Actually the ratings are a reminder I don't know what I'm talking about

Looking at the overall scores STLE is 0.011 points higher than AC/DC Prem due to artwork and a slight advantage in "other aspects" (I assume the lighting puts it there)while the the game design scores puts AC/DC ahead... So it really depends on what people prefer from a game image.jpgimage.jpg

But regardless of where a machine falls , play it and enjoy it ... too much emphasis is placed on the rankings IMO

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Better than SM? Yes. ACDC? Questionable. ACDC has the better code no doubt and both games shoot phenomenal. But STLE has that replay ability factor where I can play it nonstop for weeks, play something else for awhile, then return to STLE and get engulfed right back into it. I've had mine for nearly 2 years and it's the best pin I've ever owned; if it wasn't for the latest code update however, it would be gone.but Dwight and Steve did an amazing job bringing this game to life.

So many different aspects to strive for in ST:
- medals!
- galactic missions
- warp ramp in its own right is one of the best shots in pinball
- Klingon MB double SUPER JACKPOT
- scoring strategies are quite diverse, I've gotten 500m point games without even getting kobayshi or captains chair
- stacking and scoring strategies with the 3 deep 2X multiplier.
- destroying the vengeance 3 for 10/20/40% of your score which I'll mention I pulled off the 40% (4X) this past weekend for 259million. Game does need a V3 champion.
- vengeance scoring and the anticipation of fighting the vengeance for an extra ball
- beating vengeance multiball and getting to hear the movie theme music is awesome! (Oh wait that is on my pin only not factory )

I don't know what else to tell you guys. The game rocks!

I've had a ST Prem for 1.5 years and for me at least there is no doubt it is a top 10 game. I prefer it to several others in my collection that most would agree are top 10 (AFM, MB, and LOTR). It has a deep rule set, great theme and the lighting effects put it beyond any other Stern title to date. People can argue if it is better than AC/DC, I think it is due to lighting and theme, but I can see the argument for putting AC/DC higher and would agree that AC/DC should be top 10. I think it is way better than TOM which is the threshold for entering the top 10. The only downside to the game for me is the stock translight but Aurich took care of that.

It's interesting to see more and more people make this comment about MET. I agree regarding the chopping wood feel. I'd own ST again before owning another MET.

Not as good as Metallica but better than AC/DC. I've owned all 3 and sold AC/DC and STLE. Metallica is never leaving.

Metallica does feel like chopping wood until you get good at it if you don't get a crank it up you will never get how good it is

I'd say it is really close. Somewhere between 8-14 is probably about right. A great looking game that shoots well and the last code update did greatly help the linear rule set. It's still linear but you have more to do so it does not feel much like a chore anymore.

I personally do not agree with most of the top 10 so it doesn't really matter. I think AC/DC and Tron are really underrated based on the rankings. I also do not have any of the top 5 in my top 5 rankings. I think the top 7 games listed are all overrated but what do I know.

Being good at it or not does not change that it takes a lot of shots to get the game going. Once I get the second sparky mb going I can usually start the first crank it up and coffin mb combined with another mb can typically start the second or third crank it up but it's just a lot of shots. I love the game but it definitely has a long warm up period even for really good players (which I'm not)

STLE is tops, sexiest pin on the market IMO. Top Ten....easily. I have 7 great pins, and all my friends (none of whom have any interest in actually watching Star Trek) prefer STLE. New code is great, lighting is gorgeous, gameplay and flow fantastic. A great example of superb toys and flow. Love it.

a lot of people vote high due to the new pussy syndrome. Really, games that are newer shouldn't even give a chance to get votes, until the honey moon is long over. Test of time shows the real results. ST is a decent game, but should not be a top 10 already.

I agree with this post to a point, a modern game should be fully coded before it reaches the highest of its peak... I would have a hard time giving any modern machine a full rating until the polished code was released. With the releases of LOTR, ACDCLE, STLE, METLE, TRONLE I think it is safe to say all are polished and a debate can be had comparing them to the all time greatest machines. TWDLE, KISSLE on the other hand are still a work in progress, thou TWDLE with sufficient game play can probably be moved to the polished list.

I agree that the first couple months a game is out the ratings tend to be inflated but this game has been out 2 years, the honeymoon is over.

While I agree the test of time shows solid results but Star Trek has been out for two years, how long does the honeymoon have to last? it's not like Star Trek hit top 10 overnight. It started off strong in the top 10 but the real honeymoon and code wore thin and it dropped to the cusp of the top 20. It's since made a comeback - where it falls 2 years from now will be interesting. My prediction...? It'll drop to 15 next week due to this thread (haters gonna hate), but then muscle it's way back to where it belongs over time - top 10.

That didn't work for TWD.

What are the "superb toys"?

We can move TWDLE to the "polished list" and one Sterns best, my favorite of all of them.

but a majority of those votes were given when it was first released.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need to have more than 10 games in the top 10. Having only 10 games in the top 10 is just arbitrary and capricious!

Now that that is out of the way, I played some ST this weekend. It was the first genuine crack at it since the code update. And what I found was a much improved game over the older versions I had played.

Absolutely YES. Am I biased? yes. Not just because I own one, but ever since SR created the T2 masterpiece (I still think that is the BEST super jackpot shot to this day) and High Speed (THE best spinner game in pinball) I am reminded that pinball is an analog game and the real thrill is the speed of accelerating orbits and ramp combos with software to reward your timing skills and making consecutive shots. So, no, you can't accuse me of extending the honeymoon on this game since for me the honey moon never ends with a masterpiece.

great game no doubt, top 10 maybe, top 20 for sure.
better than ac/dc? i don't think so. my ac/dc will be the last game to leave and i really really like ST.

it's all a matter of taste i guess.

AC DC is fun but I traded mine for ST Premium ultimately as I only have room for three right now. I'm more of a sci fi nut than band pin guy anyway. To each, their own.

"Turn around!"

At least we have 10 games in the top 10 now, until recently LOTR and LOTR LE took up 2 spots.

Who cares where a pin is in the ratings? Many of my personal top 10's are in the 200's, I like reading the comments and seeing the ratings but couldn't care less where they fall in the list. The only reason I like it is so I can buy great pins in the 2 and 300's spots for super cheap.

This alone is why the ratings are a joke.

Wasn't there just a thread on this a month or 2 ago when the new code dropped?

Without a doubt a top 10 in my book. Love the Ritchie high-speed flow, the increasing score as you accomplish more mission levels, the light show and the "just one more game" draw.

Something to say about the ratings and where this 'belongs' in the rankings, particularly in response to comments about how the 90's B/W are there for nostalgia and it should be all Sterns b/c of rules, lighting, etc... Deeper and better rules don't necessarily make a game better otherwise both LOTR and TSPP would be at the top, similarly to number of shots, ramps, modes, etc. It's the overall package and despite nostalgia, the B/W games have 'stood the test of time' (albeit a very brief one from the standpoint of history). I look at the collections I most admire of my friends and they are all varied but have some common features: a few of the regularly sought after EMs - Abra, Atlantis, C37 (and many more), early Bally/Stern/Wms SS - Centaur, FG, Fathom, Paragon, HG, Nine Ball, Meteor, Galaxy; Sys 11 and similar from GTB, then WPC. All in all a good mix of machines each of which brings its own greatness. I can put hours on Paragon. Is it flashy like ST, IM, Tron, ACDC...nope, however it has better art than all of them, a different skillset required for greatness, a whole different feel. I got to borrow an Atlantis for a month or so and I played my other machines almost none. Part of it was the newness factor, part the limited time I knew I would have, but the real reason, the one that counts is how great the game is. Not deep, not flashy, one simple goal - improve my highest score. I managed to roll it twice and it felt so good.

I'd love to propose a rating system where it's about how you feel after really tearing it up on a game. Games like Atlantis, Flash Gordon, Paragon, and the like would probably be at the top of my list but it would still come down to how different the style of the game is. A friend recently said that after years of going from game to game thinking this was a keeper or that was a keeper he's decided that mainly it's about having a game or two at all to enjoy. Unfortunately, ratings only count that factor as one of many in rating the game.

I bought one NIB but eventually sold it, losing several hundred dollars in the process. Most of the modes just seemed too repetitious. Also, I couldn't bear to hear "Destroy the drill!" one more time. Perhaps if I'd been a bigger fan of the Star Trek reboot, I might have held onto it. It's a great looking pin and plays exceptionally well. I don't question why many people would love it. Different strokes...

Kinda the same thing?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stle-is-a-top-5-pin-i-know-because-i-know-because-i-know

I have a STLE and love it, but don't think it belongs in the top ten.

On the other hand I sold my ST Premium and bought an ACDC Premium.

That's the great thing about pinball. If we didn't have different tastes and want to buy and sell games my collection would suck. ST Premium was the only NIB game I've bought so far, I depend on the market having shifting tastes.

I couldn't care less where a game is rated. If it makes people happy to see Star Trek in the top 10 then great. Didn't make me keep it. And I don't rate games. I guess I could, I'm not opposed to it, but just don't really see the point I guess.