Comb--comb--combo breaker! Your logic is flawed. Law of averages always plays out and since ST has been out nearly 2 years, it's average is settling in quite right as with most pins. The other thing you forget to adhere to is a good amount of those ST ratings were given by previous owners who just couldn't wait out ST's next level update. And for that, they are determined to never give the pin a chance nor update their ranking accordingly (queue in quarter grabbers thypical thumbs down for even mentioning the letters S & T).

ST is an easy approachable machine for any level of player. But it's a very hard game to see how deep it can be. There are so many strategies and ways to tackle the pin. I do agree and have spoken to Dwight Sullivan on the subject, to qualify enterprise amok separately from lighting all level 2 missions; I recommended it he qualified by going 3 deep in 3 missions; that way there's a little extra breadth for achieving wizard modes.

hah flow isn't great and warp ramp meh? I respect people's opinions that don't like it but you may be the only person in the universe that doesn't recognize its great flow.

Very good points! When I first got Metallica I thought it was sterns best! A month later, the game became too much work and a repetitious grind. STLE on the other hand has been in my collection for 1 1/2 years and I still love it. It's lasted past Metallica, ACDC, xmen, SM, and avengers respectively.

calling all the missions the same in Star Trek is both laughable yet understandable. There are so many different ways to approach the machine it's great; that says a lot about its code. But let's have a closer look at the 18 missions - all the level 1 missions have new galactic modes all of which are completely different from each other. With that said, let's focus on the level 2 & 3 missions as well as the psychology behind thinking every mission is the same:

- Prime directive 2 & 3 - near identical
- Space Jump 2 & 3 - very similar to each other. Subtle differences, but still I'd agree that these two are very like to each other.
- Save the enterprise 2 & 3 - like SJ in that they are very similar with not enough differences to separate the two.
- Nero 2&3 - completely different from each other and unlike any other mission in the game
- destroy the drill 2&3 - again, completely different from each other and unlike any other mission in the game
- Klingon battle 2&3 - again, completely different from each other and unlike any other mission in the game

So that means out of 18 missions, there are 15 missions which are completely different from each other. Not too mention the many different strategies at which time the player should play those missions. But here's the kicker; most people want to try to light super ramps every time they play the game, which means they're stuck playing those 3 missions that have similar like tier 2&3 missions.

All that said, don't forget to overlook the many other objectives of Star Trek:
Collect medals
Build warps
Cash medals
Light multipliers
Destroy vengeance for an extra ball
Destroy vengeance for 10/20/40% of your total score
Klingon multiball
Klingon DOUBLE SUPER JACKPOT

Theme: Personal preference; but if you like wearing underoos at night then SM is your game.
Rules: SM; but having owned SM twice I would say ST's rules are better long term
sounds: ST
Call outs: ST (but SM does have Tobey McGuire saying woooooohooooo)
Variety of call outs: ST
Lighting: ST
Artwork: ST

So to sum it up....comb--comb--combo breaker! Your statement doesn't hold a candle to ST. That said, I'm contemplating SM for a third time with a VE which actually makes SM the sucker game if I fall for the hype again.

Have fun pimp, it's only pinball

Comb--comb--combo breaker! I've had STLE for 1 1/2 years and still absolutely love it. What's great about stle's new code is when the game gets stale in the slightest, as do all pins in a small home collection, you can revamp your strategy and play it a completely different way!

As for your xmen comment regarding my post earlier in this thread. Yes, I had an LE and the night crawlers and ice ramp annoyed the heck out of me so sold it. Then code finished and I was in the market for a pin but nothing was interesting me so I took the plunge on xmen pro. I'm sure glad I did, pro plays way better than the LE! I did miss the GI and spinning disk but the gameplay improvements were so much better. Xmen (pro) is a great shooters pin, love it! But the callouts are gawd awful and when I got STLE in the lineup and had them side by side and saw how similar the layouts were, xmen was put on the chopping block.

Which brings me to another point. Someone mentioned how awful the LE version is for ST. Now price aside, here's my take on pro vs LE in general. I was always the kind of guy that said hey I'm getting the LE/prem every time cause I want the FULL FEATURED game. But after time, I've learned that in most cases the programmers aren't given enough time to adequately program those features. And some fall flat making the pro version better. That said, ST PRO and LE versions are not complete different games like most pro/LE games, so in the case of the LE/prem you are getting the FULL featured pin. The pro is a great value, but if you want the full feature of all aspects of the design, the LE is the way to go.

Yea its not everyones cup of tea, it's a flow fest, combo, shooters pin. But see my post about the missions 9 posts up if you want to know more about the code.

Hah im just being a dork. That's a reference used in an old popular arcade game, killer instinct and it's been inherited as a popular reference in the nerd gaming world.

No combo breaker there but looked freaking sweet! Never played that killer instinct. Here's the original with the combo breaker:

The biggest thing I hate about STLE is draining when I have a 200 mil+ jackpot lit!!! Argh has happened twice this weekend and again just 5 mins ago!! Reminds me of some other game that gets your adrenalin running when you have a 200 mil song jp lit.

Exactly. I had roughly 500 mil score this past game. Had 600 mil yesterday. And instead of going for the easy 10% score defeat or the 20% combo defeat, I went for double scoring and a 40% defeat. This past game I had set up my warp to be at 9 before starting V3, then started sudden death of V3 but I choked on the right flipper to left loop shot to hit warp 9.1 and start double scoring - instead I missed the loop shot and drained! It was actually ball 2; but since I started sudden death, I did not get to try again on ball 3. If I would have gone for double scoring first, then started sudden death it may have been better. But 3 chances this weekend to do it; I usually opt for the 10 or 20% defeat but so wanting to get that 200+ mil jackpot!

Yea I suppose it's selective, I usually put the game on 5 ball for guests of that caliber.But they love the game as much as fgy, LotR, and acdc when I had those.

I've recommended to Dwight (st programmer) that in between missions the photon blasts 'punch it' button should be used as an alternative to light the vengeance for a mission start. 3 'punch its' lowers drop target for a mission start while regular drop target hits will go towards whatever vengeance mode is next. I'll stress this point again to him and hope something is done more than polish in its next release.

Agreed which is why I usually just play the mode to defeat it no matter what the payout is. but this weekend I wanted to try something different and go for the big one so my strategy was not to start V3 until after kobayashi and after having my warps at 9 or 9.8. So I'd continue playing missions after kobayashi til my warp as 9 or 9.8 then start V3. I got it 3 times with a 500+ mil score two of those times. So the opportunity is quite accessible. I'm still trying to figure out if I should start double scoring before or after starting the sudden death portion. I'm starting to lean towards I need to start it before so that if I drain I can continue playing the mode at least.

I agree. We should just wipe out the top 15 pins since those are the most debatable. Oh wait, then that would make STLE #1...

Have a quick look on my post here earlier in the thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stle-is-a-top-5-pin-i-know-because-i-know-because-i-know/page/2#post-2549893

The sad truth is the shell of the onion all the missions have a similar appearance; shoot the lit shots. When guests come over, I tell them shoot lit shots during missions - the better you do, the more medals you gain. In between missions, shoot away team or mission start. Very simple right? and a majority of the complaints on this pin are derived from that conclusion. Now, during intermission and sharing a drink I explain to my guests the strategies behind the missions and when is a good time to do which mission. Another easy sample of this for beginners that I show my guests is getting 3-in-a-row awards you a captains chair super mode; and if you can get two 3-in-a-rows lit at the same time, you can have two super modes running. Boom! guest mind exploded already, but the truth is that is a very basic glimpse of a strategy.

Now lets peel the onion further; each mission for the most part has a foundation of what combos are built off of which shots. Here we look at the onion of galactic modes. I tell my guests each mission has 3 separate tiers, in the first tier of each mission you can shoot the away team shot to start that tiers galactic mission (or mode) which increases scoring dramatically and can be used to build progress towards another variable in the game. I also let guests know that once they achieve a gold medal in a tier 1 mission, it will end with a final shot. The tier 1 Galactic missions are as follows:

Prime Directive 1 = Galactic Lanes: Make shots to the lanes - right/left loops count towards goal and medals. Control gates are closed for this mission so loop shots feed the lanes. Lanes = upper flipper feed. Upper Flipper Feed = warps. Warps = good! Basic Strategy; use galactic lanes when you want to build your warp count.

Space Jump 1 = Galactic Vengeance: Shoot the vengeance and mission will be over. Basic Strategy: If played right, can be a 'freebee' mission to progress towards 3-in-a-row or kobayashi because it can be completed in seconds.

Save the Enterprise 1 = Galactic Warps: Shoot the warp ramp - left loop is lit to progress goal and medals. Basic Strategy: Use this to build warp count or if you have double scoring active, start this mission to get a shit ton of points if you can successfully hit the warp ramp repeatedly.

Nero 1 = Galactic Matter: Shoot matter targets. Basic Strategy: use this mission with multiballs to rack up points.

Destroy the Drill 1 = Galactic Spinner: Shoot the spinner - left loop & left VUK count towards goal and medals. Basic Strategy: Use this mission to build warps. The 'final' shot of this galactic mission is the left VUK and it awards a TON of points, more than any other mission. Hit it!

Klingon Battle 1 = Galactic Ramps: alternate left/right ramp. Basic Strategy: Use during double scoring for loads of points. Best if stacked with Galactic Ramps too! Or Vengeance MB since ramp shots count towards vengeance.

The next strategy to understand is beginner to intermediate. Now that you understand there's 3-in-a-row horizontal, lets look at 3-in-a-row vertical. Completing 3 tier missions vertically will award a 2X shot on the pf for the remainder of the game. These 2X multipliers are as follows:

Prime Directive: Left VUK
Space Jump: Right Loop
Save the Enterprise: Right Ramp
Nero: Left Loop
Destroy the Drill: Warp Ramp
Klingon Battle: Left Loop

With that said; lets peel the onion a little further and start to look at more intermediate to advanced strategies. This is where stacking comes into play. Do you want to play each tier 1 missions galactic mode in a linear fashion and get a basic 10-15 mil score per mode? or do you want to double, triple, or quadruple that potential?

Save the enterprise Tier 1 GAT mode (galactic away team mode) is warp ramps and left loop. So if you want to maximize stacking, you could drill down destroy the drill to light the warp ramp 2X multiplier and maximize galactic warp shots. But wait, thats not all! the left loop is also lit for galactic warps, so you could essentially drill down NERO and light the left loop 2X also. But hold on just a minute... you may want to drill down NERO before DTD so that you can light the left loop, then capitalize on DTD's GAT mode doing galactic spinner. You're average score will rocket through the roof following this stack. Here's an example of how i would play out this strategy even further:
1. Start NERO 1
2. DO NOT Play Galactic Matter; keep the mode active in its generic form
3. Focus on left loop > warp combos. The game just started; time to build that warp ramp.
4. Also focus on lighting your locks and vengeance mb.
5. Start NERO 2
6. Start one of the multiballs based on #4.
7. Complete NERO 2 during multiball.
8. Start NERO 3
9. Nero 3 is based on two targets associated to your flipper buttons. THe right flipper moves one target counterclockwise while the left flipper moves the other target clockwise. Once you get good at this mission, it can be completed in just a few shots! or you can maximize scoring and medals by stacking the two shots on top of each other.
10. Start DTD, start Galactic Spinner
11. By now you should have warp 9.1 ready; start it with Galactic Spinner. And, start a multiball if you have one ready.
12. Focus on Spinner and left loop shots. When DTD is down to the last shot, aim for the left VUK - you can get upwards of 6-10 mil for this shot alone > double it if you can combo. and hey, if you wanted to, you could have drilled down Prime Directive missions to light the VUK 2X but i dont want to blow your mind quite yet.
13. Start and play DTD2 in single ball mode.
14. Start and Play DTD3 in single ball or multiball mode.
15. If you did not get 9.1 warps started in #11. Nows the time to do it. Start STE-1 and start galactic warps. Start double scoring and if you can make left loops and/or warp shots you will see an insane amount of points come your way....my record is somewhere around 85million on this one stacked mission alone (i wish there were galactic mission high scores saved).
16. if you want to press your luck or wait til you have a warp ramp double scoring ready for galactic warps and get two 3-in-a-row captains chairs; you can do the freebie space jump galactic vengeance mode real quick followed by a prime directive galactic lanes. Keep in mind galactic lanes benefits from NERO-3 completion and having that left loop 2X opened up, so take advantage and hit that left loop to lanes!!
17. After cashing in this stack, it may be a good idea to start thinking about cashing in some medals! Do whatever is needed to complete the grid and get kobayashi going. You have probably played vengeance 1 at this point, so it may be a good time to do Klingon Battle 1 for the final pyramid mission and ignore the mode for the most part and start vengeance 2...why? because you probably need an extra ball at this point! Vengeance 2 = extra ball if you can do it.
18. Start Kobayashi
19. Play Vengeance 3 for a chance at 10/20/40% of your TOTAL SCORE.

Thats just a glimpse at the possible strategies to play in Star Trek. Look for other possible mission stacks and strategies on your own, there are literally dozens! This tutorial may seem like it was written very quickly and thats because it was! Im at work typing this on my lunch break.

Stay tuned for an in depth look at each tier 2&3 mission and the combos that surround those missions and which playfield multipliers stack well with them as well as which ones should be played on single ball vs multi-ball. Until then, play better...!!!

There's repetition in every game. But part of the point I was trying to make is that The game is based on flow and combo structures and those combo variables turn different directions with each mission. And sometimes the mission or strategy calls for a more stop and go style of play. So while you were focusing on left loop + warp combos one minute; the second mission should have been more of a trap + shoot style with mini combos and the third mission is a little more challenging determining whether you should make right loop shots, drop target hits, or left VUK. The style of the game changes as you progress.

Now if you want more relevance with the warp ramp, try starting in STE and start off the game with galactic warps. Now you're building warps and doing a mission associated with it. Still down to STE 3 and light that right ramp. Granted STE 2&3 are very similar which I mentioned earlier. But they are safer missions compared to others. No real time restrictions. After STE3, drill down KB. It's another easy mission string to complete fast based in good play. Don't forget to do galaxtic ramps with that right ramp 2X multiplier from STE3. After KB3 you have the right ramp/left ramp multipliers lit and are setup for things like super ramps, vengeance mb which benefits from those Ramps, and Klingon multiball. Not to mention any shot to the ramps now awards 2X without needing it to be combo'd so you can slow the game down and focus on safer methods of play if you wish.

So now you see you had one strategy (original post) that focuses on left loops and warps. Now this new strategy I just mentioned is based in ramps and using both your bottom flippers for combos and not so much focusing on warps. The interesting part is when you have a fantastic gameand get to incorporate even more types of combos and strategies.

Premium for the same price and get the full experience this time?