(Topic ID: 259218)

(Stingray) All Displays Fading Out..

By mystic-

4 years ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by mystic-
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#1 4 years ago

I have a 1977 Stern Stingray with a Display issue and I was hoping someone may have an idea on what's going on..
The machine is new to me, i've rebuilt the Power supply, Driver board and MPU (removing the battery and installing new components)
When I turn the machine on everything comes to life and boots up fine.
All of the displays only stay lit for about a minute then go out. (When they go out, they seem to kind of fade out, not just instantly go out)
The rest of the machine will continue to play perfect, just no displays.
I do notice that I can see little orange dots at the bottom of all the displays, just no numbers.. I've checked connections and voltages and they seem fine.
Could I possibly have a Chip going bad?
Any help would be great..
Thanks in advance!

#2 4 years ago

Did you rebuild the high voltage section on the driver board? What is the voltage in the voltage section measuring now? Can you adjust the high voltage potentiometer?

#3 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Did you rebuild the high voltage section on the driver board? What is the voltage in the voltage section measuring now? Can you adjust the high voltage potentiometer?

Rebuilt, and potentiometer is working. I can see the Orange dots in the display get brighter and dimmer when adjusting..

#4 4 years ago

What is the high voltage measuring now?

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

What is the high voltage measuring now?

I'll take an exact measurement and post when I get home from work.

#6 4 years ago

swap u10 and u11 on the mpu board and see if the behavior changes.

If it does you have a bad pia.

#7 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

What is the high voltage measuring now?

197v and 253v... I played 3 games on it, then 2 went out and so did the ball in play display..

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

swap u10 and u11 on the mpu board and see if the behavior changes.
If it does you have a bad pia.

What ones are u10 and u11? (Feeling clueless)

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#9 4 years ago

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

Suspecting that the PIA outputs to the display are fading out which is why we're swapping them. The AMI one is especially suspect as they are known to be not as resilient as other brands. Looks like U10 has been replaced with a rebranded WMS one, as well. Someone did some picking and choosing in fixing that board at some point.

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

[quoted image]
Suspecting that the PIA outputs to the display are fading out which is why we're swapping them. The AMI one is especially suspect as they are known to be not as resilient as other brands. Looks like U10 has been replaced with a rebranded WMS one, as well. Someone did some picking and choosing in fixing that board at some point.

I made the swap and no change, they all lit up and went out about 30 seconds later.
is there a way to post a quick video?

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from mystic-:

is there a way to post a quick video?

You have to link a youtube video here.

With power off, can you unplug all displays except for player 1 to see what happens?

#12 4 years ago

No, you can only embed youtube or other video sharing stuff AFAIK. You high voltage is likely ok if the dots don't disappear and what's activating it is failing which is why I suspected the PIAs since they both have a hand in controlling the displays. You have any other boards there for troubleshooting? Either mpu or solenoid driver board?

U12 the display interrupt 555 might be failing, u19 could have an issue as well, both involve the display timing. If you have an oscilloscope you could test the frequency of both signals (the blanking and the display interrupt input). Associated resistors and capacitors around those chips too, would affect the timing.

Attached page from bally -17 schematic which is what your board appears to be from what I can see. The 555 is in the mid-lower left and the blanking circuit is to the far right of that. u20 and u19 for the blanking, and u12 is the 555 display interrupt generator.

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#13 4 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

No, you can only embed youtube or other video sharing stuff AFAIK. You high voltage is likely ok if the dots don't disappear and what's activating it is failing which is why I suspected the PIAs since they both have a hand in controlling the displays. You have any other boards there for troubleshooting? Either mpu or solenoid driver board?
U12 the display interrupt 555 might be failing, u19 could have an issue as well, both involve the display timing. If you have an oscilloscope you could test the frequency of both signals (the blanking and the display interrupt input). Associated resistors and capacitors around those chips too, would affect the timing.
Attached page from bally -17 schematic which is what your board appears to be from what I can see. The 555 is in the mid-lower left and the blanking circuit is to the far right of that. u20 and u19 for the blanking, and u12 is the 555 display interrupt generator.[quoted image]

Unfortunately I do not have any used parts, maybe just replacing them would also be a good way to go.. who can you recommend to by new ones from?

#14 4 years ago

how is the large hv cap on the top left of the solenoid board? changing that has fixed this for me several times.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from Astill:

how is the large hv cap on the top left of the solenoid board? changing that has fixed this for me several times.

It's new..

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from slochar:

No, you can only embed youtube or other video sharing stuff AFAIK. You high voltage is likely ok if the dots don't disappear and what's activating it is failing which is why I suspected the PIAs since they both have a hand in controlling the displays. You have any other boards there for troubleshooting? Either mpu or solenoid driver board?
U12 the display interrupt 555 might be failing, u19 could have an issue as well, both involve the display timing. If you have an oscilloscope you could test the frequency of both signals (the blanking and the display interrupt input). Associated resistors and capacitors around those chips too, would affect the timing.
Attached page from bally -17 schematic which is what your board appears to be from what I can see. The 555 is in the mid-lower left and the blanking circuit is to the far right of that. u20 and u19 for the blanking, and u12 is the 555 display interrupt generator.[quoted image]

Here is the video link:

#17 4 years ago

i wonder if you are losing a diode on the power supply board.....there are i think 4 of them.....looks like bridge failure to me.....

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from Startek2:

i wonder if you are losing a diode on the power supply board.....there are i think 4 of them.....looks like bridge failure to me.....

I rebuilt the board, maybe I should remove it and take a close look..

#19 4 years ago

Last night I when I took a voltage test at T2 and T4 (197v & 253v), I kept playing the game and the voltages never changed even after the displays went out. Swapping the U10 & U11 seemed to not change anything.. Would maybe just installing new chips all the way around be the next thing to try?

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

With power off, can you unplug all displays except for player 1 to see what happens?

#21 4 years ago

I will give that a try when I get home today.. If display 1 stays lit and works fine should I plug in another and then another? what will this tell me if that is the case?
I do have a bad glass on display #2, the last two digits are burnt it looks like..

#22 4 years ago

Sometimes issues from one display can affect all the others, especially the data lines that are common to all the displays.

Displays that have two digits that are burnt do not affect others. That would be a bad display glass.

#23 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Sometimes issues from one display can affect all the others, especially the data lines that are common to all the displays.
Displays that have two digits that are burnt do not affect others. That would be a bad display glass.

That makes sense, I'll do the test and let you know what happens.

#24 4 years ago

Testing one by one is a good thing to do. I read in the past sometimes a MPU can have an issue on players 2 and 4 and 1 and 3 could be ok. I never watched those threads to see what it turned out to be.

#25 4 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Testing one by one is a good thing to do. I read in the past sometimes a MPU can have an issue on players 2 and 4 and 1 and 3 could be ok. I never watched those threads to see what it turned out to be.

Think that player 2&4 and player 1&3 stuff would apply to earlier Williams games (Sys3-7). The wire harness to the displays on Classic Bally/Stern games is done in a daisy-chain fashion, usually starting at Player 1. If all the displays are out, it's usually something at the MPU or a signal dropped going to the Player 1 display. Best to disconnect all the displays and test each one individually at the Player 1 position and get that position working. That isolates any issues on the other displays from affecting all the other positions.

Common issues on these displays are solder joints at the .156 headers and connector / wire harness issues. You'll drive yourself nuts if you don't repair any cold/cracked solder joints on the displays, so something to check if you get to the point it's just individual displays acting up. This shouldn't take out all the displays though so it shouldn't be your main issue.

Next big point of failure is connectors and this WILL affect all displays. If you haven't repinned the J1 connector on the MPU, that might be the problem (esp considering it looks like your MPU suffered some battery damage and the vapors can over time destroy the terminals in the connectors). Try wiggling J1 to see if that makes the displays come on or disappear. There's a chance there's a fault with signals from the MPU, but it's usually not intermittent with with displays sometimes working and sometimes not. At this point I'd be focusing on checking J1 at the MPU and isolating things by only testing displays at the Player 1 position (with all other displays disconnected).

#26 4 years ago
Quoted from acebathound:

Think that player 2&4 and player 1&3 stuff would apply to earlier Williams games (Sys3-7). The wire harness to the displays on Classic Bally/Stern games is also done in a daisy-chain fashion, usually starting at Player 1. If all the displays are out, it's usually something at the MPU or a signal dropped going to the Player 1 display. Best to disconnect all the displays and test each one individually at the Player 1 position and get that position working. That isolates any issues on the other displays from affecting all the other positions.
Common issues on these displays are solder joints at the .156 headers and connector / wire harness issues. You'll drive yourself nuts if you don't repair any cold/cracked solder joints on the displays, so something to check if you get to the point it's just individual displays acting up. This shouldn't take out all the displays though so it shouldn't be your main issue.
Next big point of failure is connectors and this WILL affect all displays. If you haven't repinned the J1 connector on the MPU, that might be the problem (esp considering it looks like your MPU suffered some battery damage and the vapors can over time destroy the terminals in the connectors). Try wiggling J1 to see if that makes the displays come on or disappear. There's a chance there's a fault with signals from the MPU, but it's usually not intermittent with with displays sometimes working and sometimes not. At this point I'd be focusing on checking J1 at the MPU and isolating things by only testing displays at the Player 1 position (with all other displays disconnected).

Okay. Swapping the displays did not change anything. I checked, cleaned, and messed with J1 and still no change. Unplugging J1 does make the displays go out then back to the way they are when I plug it back into the MPU...
Ideas on where to go next?

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