(Topic ID: 297550)

Steve Ritchie Leaving Stern for JJP?

By RobT

84 days ago


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    There are 1187 posts in this topic. You are on page 21 of 24.
    13
    #1001 67 days ago
    Quoted from Captain_Howdy:

    Only a real fanboy would say something so funny,
    GNR is ALOT popular today then Zeppelin

    I am not talking "current" popularity... I am talking remembered by history. There is no way Axl Rose is as influential as Robert Plant, or Slash as Jimmy Page and to paraphrase Samuel L. Jackson they "ain't in the same fucking ball park. They ain't in the same league. They ain't even in the same fucking sport!"

    #1002 67 days ago

    JJP and Stern use the same CAD software, SolidWorks. So there might be less of a learning curve about design tools.

    #1003 67 days ago
    Quoted from Captain_Howdy:

    For every 100 dudes who likes the GNR pin, there will always be the 1 odd dude claiming the Led Zeppeling Pin is the best...

    Turns out I'm a one-percenter.

    #1004 67 days ago
    Quoted from yancy:

    Turns out I'm a one-percenter.

    Same here. Was at an arcade with GNR, LZ and Mando. Played 5 games of each then kept going back to LZ. Not a fan of LZ music so had nothing to do with theme.

    #1005 67 days ago
    Quoted from Bublehead:I am not talking "current" popularity... I am talking remembered by history. There is no way Axl Rose is as influential as Robert Plant, or Slash as Jimmy Page and to paraphrase Samuel L. Jackson they "ain't in the same fucking ball park. They ain't in the same league. They ain't even in the same fucking sport!"

    Facts.

    Led Zeppelin is poetry:

    I had a dream. Crazy dream
    Anything I wanted to know, any place I needed to go
    Hear my song. People won't you listen now? Sing along
    You don't know what you're missing now
    Any little song that you know
    Everything that's small has to grow
    And it has to grow!
    California sunlight, sweet Calcutta rain
    Honolulu Starbright - the song remains the same

    Guns and roses latest “hit”:

    Ha-oww
    Listen, motherfuckers, to the song that should be heard
    Back down in the gutter is more than you deserve
    Screaming fucking banshee, you know that's what you are
    Pussy full of maggots, isn't that absurd

    Dizzy little dreamer with your head down in the stars
    Fucking little schemer, got yourself inside the art
    Syphilitic priestess baby, I know who you are
    Parasitic demon sucking acid through your heart
    Absurd

    #1006 67 days ago

    “Absurd” is embarrassing but not really fair. GNR are judged by their classic material just like zep!

    Classic GNR is one album, Appetite, every song a classic and a killer. Zep certainly has a much bigger catalog of classic material, many albums worth of timeless classic rock.

    And no way are gnr more popular. Even today a reunion zep show would pack stadiums, gnr are papering shows with radio contests and slashing prices days before the show to fill half a stadium these days.

    #1007 67 days ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    “Absurd” is embarrassing but not really fair. GNR are judged by their classic material just like zep!
    Classic GNR is one album, Appetite. Zep certainly has a much bigger catalog of classic material.
    And no way are gnr more popular. Even today a reunion zep show would pack stadiums, gnr are papering shows with radio contests and slashing prices days before the show to fill half a stadium these days.

    It was a cheap shot but at least we know LZ will never come out with a song as horrible. XD

    #1008 66 days ago

    Great interview with Steve. I don’t expect him to share any personal stuff with us, but I’m glad he found a place to be happy.

    I’m looking forward to the King’s next game.

    #1009 66 days ago
    C6DBB8CD-E279-479B-BCA4-D6B7E3B20CFA (resized).jpeg
    #1010 66 days ago
    Quoted from zaphX:

    Me? I'm a delight.

    zaphX I would agree with you, good sir. And even more so if you would kindly produce some more of your excellent gameplay videos! Loved the Wonka one.

    #1011 66 days ago

    Stern "Take those drop targets out, replace with standups now"!

    #1012 66 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Stern "Take those drop targets out, replace with standups now"!

    Stand Up (singular).

    #1013 66 days ago
    Quoted from BrianJ1337:

    Facts.
    Led Zeppelin is poetry:
    I had a dream. Crazy dream
    Anything I wanted to know, any place I needed to go
    Hear my song. People won't you listen now? Sing along
    You don't know what you're missing now
    Any little song that you know
    Everything that's small has to grow
    And it has to grow!
    California sunlight, sweet Calcutta rain
    Honolulu Starbright - the song remains the same
    Guns and roses latest “hit”:
    Ha-oww
    Listen, motherfuckers, to the song that should be heard
    Back down in the gutter is more than you deserve
    Screaming fucking banshee, you know that's what you are
    Pussy full of maggots, isn't that absurd
    Dizzy little dreamer with your head down in the stars
    Fucking little schemer, got yourself inside the art
    Syphilitic priestess baby, I know who you are
    Parasitic demon sucking acid through your heart
    Absurd

    As long as you’re listing facts, you should also include the fact that there’s at least 10 instances where LZ ripped off other artists songs.

    I’m not a fan of either band, but at least GNR can claim musical originality.

    #1014 66 days ago

    Loved the interview with Steve and I am excited about a new game with JJP. That being said, I don’t think Steve can blame Stern for his lack of pinball success or passion lately. I am a huge fan, but his last few games have been poorly executed and it had nothing to do with Stern’s BOM, rather it had everything to do with his layout design and how Steve chose to use the BOM. All of his most recent games were either layouts copied from a past game or point blank very poorly designed. I recently played Led Zeppelin pro and was shocked at how bad it was and I had the same reaction when I played Black Knight SOR pro. I still believe Steve has a few more great games in him. He just needs to remember that nothing can save a poor layout design, no amount of music, art, code or BOM.

    #1015 66 days ago
    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    He just needs to remember that nothing can save a poor layout design, no amount of music, art, code or BOM.

    WOZ

    10
    #1016 66 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    That seems like a clear indication of lower forced game budgets. I couldn't imagine having to argue for a few extra drop targets, magnets, or a physical ball lock. These games are insanely priced and should come loaded, especially after all of the price hikes.

    This is was the biggest take away from that interview....unbelievable! Price hikes every year yet they're limiting designers to save 80 bucks worth of parts

    #1017 66 days ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    This is was the biggest take away from that interview....unbelievable! Price hikes every year yet they're limiting designers to save 80 bucks worth of parts

    Lol yeah.

    Management "Remove that magnet, it's an extra $10 cost per game and over 3,000 games that's $30,000"! Designer "but our games already cost $6k - $10k for a pinball machine of all things, don't we need to justify our prices and offer value"? Management "Uncle Gary needs a new car"!

    #1018 66 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Management "Remove that magnet, it's an extra $10 cost per game and over 3,000 games that's $30,000"! Designer "but our games already cost $6k - $10k for a pinball machine of all things, don't we need to justify our prices and offer value"? Management "Uncle Gary needs a new car"!

    I'd be curious whether every game has the same BOM or if it varies by theme, designer or anything else. If it's all the same, look at what Borg did with Turtles and compare it to Zeppelin, the difference is night and day. But if Ritchie was being given a lower BOM it actually really explains his last 4 designs and doesn't bode well for his final game that is in the whitewood stage.

    #1019 66 days ago

    In fairness to Stern...

    There may be other reasons they restrict the BOM and/or mechs. For example, reliability. Known/simple mechs are less likely to break and cause trouble.

    It's no secret that Stern games are more reliable OOTB than JJPs, and stand up to arcade levels of abuse better.

    Different approach, different market.

    #1020 66 days ago
    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    Loved the interview with Steve and I am excited about a new game with JJP. That being said, I don’t think Steve can blame Stern for his lack of pinball success or passion lately. I am a huge fan, but his last few games have been poorly executed and it had nothing to do with Stern’s BOM, rather it had everything to do with his layout design and how Steve chose to use the BOM. All of his most recent games were either layouts copied from a past game or point blank very poorly designed. I recently played Led Zeppelin pro and was shocked at how bad it was and I had the same reaction when I played Black Knight SOR pro. I still believe Steve has a few more great games in him. He just needs to remember that nothing can save a poor layout design, no amount of music, art, code or BOM.

    I think you lack understanding of working in a creative, delivery driven environment for any extended period of time. It is insanely hard to be creative for any length of time. It is much much harder when you feel stifled or restricted. Musicians may have a period of creativity that last a couple months and then can ride that out for years. It's a whole other animal when you are the Golden Goose and feel locked in a cage and they still demand those golden eggs.

    The audacity of telling Steve Ritchie with a lifetime in pinball what he needs to remember.

    #1021 66 days ago

    I think there is probably a maximum budget for a new game. And for a licensed theme, BOM must be cut down to allow license fees. Steve sure has done great work and sales records on non-licensed games (Flash, Black Knight, Firepower, High Speed, F14 Tomcat).

    Not bad for some licensed themes even, like STTNG. Too bad we dont have data on Stern game sales.

    Lets hope he will get more freedom to work on his future games with JJP. They are more pricey, but the increased price should allow more room for BOM.

    #1022 66 days ago
    Quoted from Darscot:The audacity of telling Steve Ritchie with a lifetime in pinball what he needs to remember.

    Yup, I’ve got the audacity because deep down Steve knows I am right. All hail the King!

    #1023 66 days ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    He really had zero issue taking a swing at Stern. A little surprising.

    He's in the twilight of his career. I believe in not burning your bridges personally but he basically has the cuffs off now (mostly) to do what he wants. He did basically say in sort of cryptic terms that Star Trek was his favorite game with what he had to make it (other than AC/DC). I still feel Star Wars (Stern's) could of been a better game with a few changes. After playing it a few times at arcades, just wasn't wow'd by it even though it's fast.

    #1024 66 days ago

    Regardless how great SR makes his next pin, JJP still has playfield issues and crappy customer service. Big obstacle to overcome regardless who designs the next game.

    #1025 66 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Stern "Take those drop targets out, replace with standups now"!

    Quoted from flynnibus:

    Stand Up (singular).

    I believe it’s “Stands Up.” Same as “Attorneys General.”

    #1026 66 days ago

    If I may...

    Stand-up modifies target, so you would say stand-up targets. Since neither stand nor up are the noun, I think it's proper to say stand-ups. Just as you might say blues for blue targets.

    #1027 66 days ago
    Quoted from pinball_keefer:

    If I may...
    Stand-up modifies target, so you would say stand-up targets. Since neither stand nor up are the noun, I think it's proper to say stand-ups. Just as you might say blues for blue targets.

    Why choose? Standups behind drops, all day long.

    #1028 66 days ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    Why choose? Standups behind drops, all day long.

    You're even thinking too small! Stand-ups behind drops behind drops!

    #1029 66 days ago

    I love sequential drops.
    Linear like multiplier on EBD or 2-3-4-5 like on Trident.

    #1030 66 days ago
    Quoted from shaub:

    You're even thinking too small! Stand-ups behind drops behind drops!

    There's room for a vari-target in there somewhere...

    #1031 66 days ago
    Quoted from PinballAir:

    I love sequential drops.
    Linear like multiplier on EBD or 2-3-4-5 like on Trident.

    Centaur is one of my favorites for that. Nice to see it kind of return with Metallica.

    #1032 66 days ago

    Your forgetting that BOM will include licence. LZ is pretty bare.. Pity JJP didn’t get LZ. I like GnR but LZ are on another level!

    #1033 66 days ago
    Quoted from Kenz:

    Your forgetting that BOM will include licence. LZ is pretty bare.. Pity JJP didn’t get LZ. I like GnR but LZ are on another level!

    We all agree that certain licenses are more expensive than others, but I don’t believe Led Zeppelin is bare because of BOM. Steve has always struggled with Stern’s two model approach. He has never been able to successfully adapt to designing for it, where I think Elwin, Gomez and Borg have it down to a science. For the most part, you lose the most, when you buy a Ritchie pro vs a premium/LE. As a pinball designer, it’s the worst kind of punishment you can dish out to your fans, when you consider that most pinheads are buying and playing the pro model.

    #1034 66 days ago

    I’m heavily biased on LZ obviously, it’s my first NIB and one of my favorite all time rock bands and Ritchie is probably my favorite designer.

    Compared to every new stern or JJP, LZ is definitely bare but I find something beautiful in it’s simplicity. Less is more so to speak, it’s like a throw back to the heyday of the 70’s, killer rock music and older pinball machines when they weren’t so loaded down with tons of toys and 20 habitrails all over the place.

    There’s something inviting to it for new players not so overwhelming and something special for serious players (flows like a mf at times).

    #1035 66 days ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:

    As long as you’re listing facts, you should also include the fact that there’s at least 10 instances where LZ ripped off other artists songs.

    #1036 66 days ago
    Quoted from shaub:

    You're even thinking too small! Stand-ups behind drops behind drops!

    Has there ever been a double row of drops? I want to say I've seen that once before, but maybe it was just in my dreams.

    #1037 66 days ago
    Quoted from VALIS666:

    Has there ever been a double row of drops?

    Chief Bank-A-Flip Galactic Poker Dice 5 rows of 5.

    LTG : )

    #1038 66 days ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    I believe it’s “Stands Up.” Same as “Attorneys General.”

    I think you missed the joke...

    See Mono-targets on recent stern games

    #1039 66 days ago

    Man that’s such a stretch on all of those. Even the stairway lawsuit was dismissed and that one wasn’t even close IMO.

    Were they influenced by guys like muddy waters? Absolutely, but their music is in a whole different dimension

    #1040 66 days ago
    Quoted from BrianJ1337:

    I’m heavily biased on LZ obviously, it’s my first NIB and one of my favorite all time rock bands and Ritchie is probably my favorite designer.
    Compared to every new stern or JJP, LZ is definitely bare but I find something beautiful in it’s simplicity. Less is more so to speak, it’s like a throw back to the heyday of the 70’s, killer rock music and older pinball machines when they weren’t so loaded down with tons of toys and 20 habitrails all over the place.
    There’s something inviting to it for new players not so overwhelming and something special for serious players (flows like a mf at times).

    It's bare but the colors, lights, and tunes are great and most importantly, it has the Elwin-coined "kinetic satisfaction" when hitting your shots. I didn't care for it much at first but now that I've gotten better, I really like it. More than GNR, even.

    #1041 66 days ago
    Quoted from VALIS666:

    Has there ever been a double row of drops? I want to say I've seen that once before, but maybe it was just in my dreams.

    Bally Vector had them, i wouldn't be surprised to see others did too.

    #1042 66 days ago
    Quoted from Flyfalcons:

    It's bare but the colors, lights, and tunes are great and most importantly, it has the Elwin-coined "kinetic satisfaction" when hitting your shots. I didn't care for it much at first but now that I've gotten better, I really like it. More than GNR, even.

    I’m still dying to play a GnR. I’ve played most JJP’s except WoZ and I LOVE them and GnR looks epic!

    #1043 66 days ago
    Quoted from Chuckwebster:

    Bally Vector had them, i wouldn't be surprised to see others did too.

    Yes, that's what I was thinking of! Thanks. "Defense in position!" Unique game, that one.

    #1044 65 days ago
    Quoted from 27dnast:As long as you’re listing facts, you should also include the fact that there’s at least 10 instances where LZ ripped off other artists songs.
    I’m not a fan of either band, but at least GNR can claim musical originality.

    Elvis ripped off just as many...

    The industry was rife with stealing shit back in the 50s and 60s... and don't even get me started on producers who would take writing credits just so they got part of the money.

    Get over it. It was more prevalent back then when money talked and BS walked.

    #1045 65 days ago

    Steve’s first day a JJP with the design engineer

    F7E6C6B8-CFFC-4FEA-92D5-F4229B72F080 (resized).png
    #1046 65 days ago
    Quoted from BrianJ1337:

    Man that’s such a stretch on all of those. Even the stairway lawsuit was dismissed and that one wasn’t even close IMO.
    Were they influenced by guys like muddy waters? Absolutely, but their music is in a whole different dimension

    We are in agreement on this matter!
    I actually heard one of my sons friend calling it culture mis appropriation lol silly kids!

    #1047 65 days ago

    In my experience, nothing is ever ripped off in music. There’s no such thing. If an artist is influenced by another artist it elevates both of them. This includes sampling, allusions, tributes, etc to music previously written. The only issue is when artists are not truthful about it. Everyone knows Robert Johnson because of other artists who came after were influenced and copied/borrowed from him. Otherwise he would have been an unknown genius

    #1048 65 days ago
    Quoted from thechakapakuni:

    In my experience, nothing is ever ripped off in music. There’s no such thing. If an artist is influenced by another artist it elevates both of them. This includes sampling, allusions, tributes, etc to music previously written. The only issue is when artists are not truthful about it. Everyone knows Robert Johnson because of other artists who came after were influenced and copied/borrowed from him. Otherwise he would have been an unknown genius

    I regret that I only have one upvote to give for my country...

    #1049 65 days ago
    Quoted from thechakapakuni:

    Steve’s first day a JJP with the design engineer
    [quoted image]

    That picture made me think...it would be cool to have a "make your own horseshoe" with paths and one rollover switch behind each target and they feed a backchannel that leads to a common exit. What horseshoe you open would open game feature and scoring opportunities. You could make it so once a channel was open, if you hit a different target, it closed the other channel, or you could just open all the channels before they reset, or even make it so once you opened one, you couldn't open another until that mode was done. Lots of possibilities.

    -6
    #1050 65 days ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    Stern "Take those drop targets out, replace with standups now"!

    On second thought, save a switch or two and make it a mono target. I will never buy a mono target machine like Munsters or TMNT. They are incredibly unsatisfying to hit. About as unsatisfying as the new clear that Hayfarmer is delusional about. Diamond plate is way better. You take a treasure cove polishing kit to an old diamond plate play field and it will polish up just as shiny as the new clear, but without all the issues and inferior chemical makeup.

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