I know lots of people that like it, and I know just as many (self included) that weren't impressed at all.

Please fill me in to why all the SR bashing .Everyone is going to have different opinions on different games it’s the way of the world .We have different companies which set they’re own bench marks mainly by the material they purchase for use and the BOM they set in place .Within those different company’s is different designers with they’re teams that add a buffet of choices and SR is obviously one of the best .If I had to guess just observing from pinside he looked pretty steamed when he entered JJPs building .Actually remembering all the times I started a new job walking in the first day is rough because your starting over and are not comfortable yet .Maybe he was pissed Gomez got the job he thought he should’ve had .Who the fuck knows but I wish him the best .Pinball is a much better hobby w SR around wouldn’t you agree ? By the way picking up my first SR friday a LZprem which I’ve played and loved because it’s unlike the rest of my modest collection .Who the hell wants a row of the same shit different decals ? Not me .

That would be very cool indeed!!!

A few of people here have no respect for themselves, other people or the hobby. SR is a legend in this hobby and deserves to be treated with respect. I wish Steve well and I am sure that he will make a massive difference to JJP. We were lucky enough to meet him a couple of years ago and spend quite a few hours with him playing BKSOR. The guy loves Pinball, the people in it and the people who play and enjoy it. The more wine he drank, the more passionate he became.

I suggest to you that you learn to use the ignore function on this site. It will definitely help filter the negativity and lack of respect and make your experience on Pinside much better.

If Steve designs a Mortal Kombat pin for JJP, we are definitely in!

Pinside has average price of The Hobbit at 7K. Which I think is a good price for a really great pin

Welcome aboard Steve!

Haven't seen one at that price for quite a while now...

What he meant was Lyman is going to be coding unless he is not going to be coding. One thing is for sure, he’s Lyman (unless he’s been Lyin Man)

True. They are going up, but 7K is what Pinside has as the ‘current’ average. Anyway, enough about the hobbit in this thread.

My concern about SR and JJP is it may take several years to get his pin to production. There are likely a couple ahead of him, so we may not see his pin for at least 3 or 4 years.

I echo what Cscmtp and others have said, my biggest hope is that JJP gets the playfield issues corrected.

Bah… BKSOR is fantastic. Knows exactly what it set out to be and what it is and accomplished in spades. You don’t need to like it, shit, hate it, but if that’s not a SR design that delivered, well… but it is.

Meh, it’s tough not to respond to illogic pinheads, because you’ll always want to assume the best, and the last thing you want to do is leave someone butt-hurt in the dust. Does it always work - nah. But it is worth it for the self-aware who go “oh shit, ya” and for that, never give up.

Eh, Kaneda is still a pretty good source. Understand the hate though, when one’s a middle-aged-turning-old wanker who’s life doesn’t argue back enough. Your source was on point, but Kaneda is still a source of entertainment, news, influence, and novelty in a pin-world of crusty.

Agreed, and I’ll be second in line if I don’t successfully fatality you on the way to first in line!

In one of Kaneda's podcasts or Facebook he credits you for the SR story and also credits Cary Hardy for the Lyman leaving Stern story.
Sorry for my poorly worded comment but I was trying to make a point to Porkcarrot.

Pinside:

1. An 'asshole' makes a rude remark and/or harsh criticism.

2. Bleeding hearts rage in response.

3. Freedom fighters defend the asshole and challenge the bleeding hearts.

4. Other Pinsiders post 'get along guys' and or 'not this again' posts.

5. Real discussion takes place for a few posts until a fanboy argument is made.

6. Someone writes a 'this is what Pinside is' post.

7. Another 'asshole' makes a rude remark and/or harsh criticism.

No one has thought SR at Stern was best designer for years. He was good at one time, so not taking that away from him, with due respect. He hasn’t had any hits since ST, many years ago. Since then, SR has bombed out big time. Everything he’s done at Stern from Star Trek onward has been quite dismal, while all other designers games have been huge hits. Do they know how to work the Stern BOM better or had better IPs to work with???

Personally like game play of BK, but there is not much in the game, except that fabulous topper. SW, again not much in the game. LZ more proof SR lost his step, with not much in the game. He saw GNR loaded with plastic (no mechs) to the hilt and drooled what he could do with some cheap plastics and cheap LEDs like GNR has and commented to Gary. Gary probably said, you’re more than welcome to head over to JJP and see where that gets you, with a release schedule of 1 game every 2 years. Pat’s next and Eric surely has a game ready too, so SR would have to wait 6 years for his release, even if JJP’s tiny output could do it even that fast.

SR would have been far better off taking his talents to Spooky, where they are just getting better and better.

I was done too, but one more for clarity. You didn’t substantiate anything. Substantiate means to establish proof. No proof was provided. You are a person on the internet. Your source was anonymous. Literally anyone can say that. That isn’t proof.

Your source could be Steve Richie himself, you could be 100% sure, but without providing actual verification, there is no way to distinguish you from GottliebLuver7473x. I’ve never said you were wrong or accused you of lying. All I said was there has been literally no evidence. It was all people saying “my sources tell me”. And again, this isn’t an attack on you, but most of us don’t know who you are or the validity of your sources. There is no way to know. And that’s what I was trying to get across.

So your point is that a rumor is a rumor? If you have a point you are completely failing to make it.

No one cares, take it to PM.

I was with you up to this point, then you just went away. Time to put down the devils lettuce.

Then you need to get your news from a court of law and not read Pinside. Read the title of this thread. It has a question mark to it.

He didn't screw up that pin at all ... it's the first pin that did a music theme right in my opinion. It doesn't play the music as if it were a glorified MP3 player ... the music is well integrated into the game ... It's like a pinball version of Rock Band ... you play poorly, your concert sucks and you fail ... you play great, your concert is a hit and you score bigger points. That takes a lot of impressive design work to get right. Add in the brilliant light show and the whole experience is quite immersive. I wish Metallica and Iron Maiden were done that way, but that's only my opinion ... the sales of both of those machines tell me that people don't care about that .

I have some gripes about GnR's layout ... it didn't have the kind of flow I would expect for a rock themed pin ... but the plusses far outweigh the minuses. JJP GnR is a rock solid pin from a design standpoint.

Fair point re: Metallica and it being a glorified MP3 player. I love love love the game and I've always been a fan of their music (although I'm not a big fan of THEM in particular) but you're right on this one. It certainly didn't keep me from going out and buying one, and I'm happy I did. But it's a fair point nonetheless.

It seems like he's worked closely with Tim Sexton on most, if not all of his most recent games so I think that's already been happening. When it comes to the Art Package, especially on licensed assets I doubt he has much say at all but I think he gets more shit than deserved for BKSOR. That main toy is unique and pretty complex and I would bet that once that BOM cost was sunk other things we may have wanted to included had to go including an actual kickback for the outlane ballsave, magnasave button next to the flipper button, maybe a more complex upper locking mechanism, etc. It also has one of the coolest toppers ever made available, though I don't know if he had much to do with it, I'm not really a "topper guy" though.

BKSOR is awesome. I'm not really sure why it's not loved more than it is. I'm no pinball pro but I can't think of anything it's "missing". Someone who doesn't like it, please, feel free to educate. I enjoy the hell out of the game.

I think it’s a fine game but I hate how you work so hard to get to the end and the final mode can be over in 5 seconds. So frustrating. Also, each game pretty much feels the same. Not a lot of strategy involved. But it’s fast and brutal, so that makes up for it.

I'm not good enough to make it that far in the game, but from what I've gathered that sounds like a reasonable gripe.

Another fair point, although I feel like that's a LOT of games. There are maybe a handful I don't feel that about. But again I'm not a very good pinball player so I kind of just go with whatever I feel works. I'm not one for going after the "max" strategy on a game and just repeating it every time I play it. I just go with the flow.

I find the opposite of what others are saying: the game doesn't know what it's supposed to be. It's built for speed, but I find that trap and shoot is the only way to play it well. Narrow shots with deadly rebounds. It's like GOT but tighter and with code 5x more shallow. There's just not much there. You do get a REAL feather though lol.

The game has great music and lighting. It may be my fav of all time for intensity in those areas.

Yeah the actual Black Knight toy was pretty cool, the upper playfield not so much. The Hyper-Loop was awesome just was clearly meant for a High Speed theme. I'm not a fan of the magic spinner on Led Zep but people do seem to like it, those Unicorns in the early release were terrible. I just can't give him a pass on the Art and say well its the license. His pins are consistently terrible. There is no way it was the license that insisted on that style for GOT, there has never been a piece of merchandise or media that looks anything like that. Star Wars they redid the art and the license clearly was happy with the new style. AC-DC is like the benchmark for terrible and it has several iterations on the art. Star Trek is probably his best and it was not loved when it came out (when a pin gets the Aurich package its not a sign of good art). I think it's just not that important to him, he is just too utilitarian and needs to let someone better suited handle it.

It's definitely one where if you don't slow it down and backhand the shots, you'll get absolutely smoked (unless you're REALLY good). I personally feel that's a testament to how much of a mean, nasty B it is.

I tend to not like games that are overwhelming with how much crap is crammed into them (SEE: Stern Star Wars). Give me a straightforward game with pretty clear objectives all day and I'll have a blast. But I can understand where more skilled players would find that boring and would consider games like that to have no depth or staying power. I guess my question would be: are there more novice-like players like me or hardcore pros that would pick it apart? There's no way to really know one way or the other and it's just a hypothetical question. That said, with how difficult BKSOR is it finds itself in an odd spot because most novice players don't want a game to just kick their ass. Good players can appreciate the challenge, so if BKSOR lacks depth for a seasoned player..where's that leave it? I guess I can understand its lack of general appreciation due to that, with the understanding that maybe I'm not really a member of either camp. I can appreciate that it dunks on me while also appreciating that it isn't a cobbled mess of rules like some other games.

I do like the music and lighting, although I think the callouts are pretty craptastic (at least compared to BK2K). TBH I think BK2K beats it in music, SFX, *and* lighting..but that game...meh. Talk about no depth and a boring game..

Haha, I appreciate the upper but only because it slows it down I think. I've not played a pro (it's just not how it worked out for me -- I was offered a trade on a premium) but my take is that it turns it into a non-stop / no-pause speed demon and I just don't think I'd work well with that.

Stern has an art director, maybe your gripe is with him? I doubt the designers get a lot of artist choice. ST, GOT, SW, LZ were never going to be Zombie Yeti games. BK3 got a theme-appropriate artist and it looks fine.

If you do a little digging, you'll find that the "artist" for LZ is a suburban Chicago designer of tacky rockstar clothing, and longtime music industry friend of Jody Dankberg. So I'm pretty sure you can't blame that one on Steve.

They are his pins and they are consistently below par. It's not like an occasionally thing with Steve's pins. I love his games but lets be real here, speed, flow and bad art art the 1,2,3 of Steve Ritchie. Honorable mention to aggressive callouts with his voice.

I agree the art usually bad, but tell me how you think he can veto his own art director and/or the licensor and/or Jody.

Man.... I don't ALWAYS agree, but sometimes...like with BKSOR...they ain't great. lol

BK2K though... NAILED IT.

It's not about veto, its about a conversation, guidance and collaboration. Is it even debatable that Steve's pins tend to be lacking compared to everyone else's at Stern when it comes to Art. The man is still a legend, but hopefully at JJP they give him the support in areas to make him even better. At Stern he just seemed to be a little stagnant this change could be the best thing for him. He was kinda going the wrong direction at Stern.

What theme do you think would suit him at JJP? He needs something big and aggressive, but I think he has done enough music pins. The one that comes to mind for me is Top Gun. Can you imagine a fully licensed Top Gun with Steve Ritchie and JJP, damn, that could get my money.

Sure, if you want Tom Cruise's folks to guarantee it has boring photorealistic art.

Speed/aggression-based themes are irrelevant at JJP anyway until they change how they drive coils.

And the throwback MB is pretty bad; But it's a fun fast little game.

I wonder how long until his first pin at jjp is released. By year end?

It's what I'd call "cute", compared to the real deal BK2K and its badass SFX. IMO it's a nice throwback to an amazing music/sfx/callout pin, but even there it kinda misses the mark IMO. Still better than not having it at all, but it's a shell of what BK2K was (speaking purely from sounds, not even analyzing the actual MB gameplay). I've never made it to the second MB mode..maybe I'll get there someday. I've heard it's cool as well, but very short (ESPECIALLY considering how hard it is to get there) which is unfortunate.

I wouldn't personally say BKSOR is one of the "all time great!!!" games, but I think it's a solid player and worthy of ownership. Seems many will disagree and that's OKAY, I just don't think it's fair for what I consider to be a "good" / "solid" game. Maybe it was a disappointment from a sales perspective but I enjoy it and it seems most who have played mine tend to agree. It is what it is. Fact is, only a handful of games really deserve the moniker and respect of being a top game all-time. It's a special category for a reason. But there's nothing wrong with just being "good". Lots of 90s Williams games fit in that category IMO

I like that MB but mainly cause it’s worth a lot of points.

At least 2 years from now.

You must be fun at parties, so it's basically hopeless even Steve Ritchie can't make a fast pin at JJP. What theme would you like to see him do?

So with Steve gone, what are the odds Tim Sexton gets to design a game in the near future? He was under Ritchie's wing and a few great designers, like Eddy, got their start on the software side

I think he'd be the first designer at Stern that isn't old enough to be my dad (or grandfather)

Definitely sarcasm GnR is a great game!aI was commenting on something ccsmt said up the way about JJP fucking up Rush or VH if they did them.I think Eric would knock them out of the park

From Darscot! I mean, this is like the highest level classic post.

Oh I'm the WORST.

With their current electronics, yes.

I'm theme agnostic; only care how well they're implemented.