Jesus Christ, the blasted wood is the same they’re just not dried in the mill for the same amount of time! 75% of the wood mills energy cost is for drying/curing the wood. It’s the same reason we have decals instead of screen printing, metal heads, on/off button in the head and pegs instead of service rails.

Indisputable proof? How about opening your eyes and looking at a Stern playfield vs a Bally/Williams? How about using common sense? How about logic? Of course The Bally/Willams pf dimple too but not not like the modern Sterns, If they moved a power switch to save a couple of bucks what makes you think sourcing a cheaper grade wood is a bridge too far? But hey maybe it's easier to be a robot, now let's repeat the mantra after me "Steel vs. Wood.....steel always wins'

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/01/02/plywood-industry-plea-for-help-rejected/4288667/

https://jayscustomcreations.com/2015/03/10515/

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/basics/choose_the_right_plywood
Excerpt below:

Wherever plywood is made, the trees used for core material are fast-growing and have little or no value as solid wood or as face veneer. Depending on the quality consciousness of the manufacturer, these cores can vary tremendously. The biggest problem is variation in thickness, but uneven or incorrect moisture content can also cause sheets that are warped, bowed or twisted. Poorly manufactured plywood also has a tendency to split or delaminate, especially when nails or screws are driven into the edges.

Yes Vid, I know the reason but you left out the part where it saves them money to approve only the backbox vs both the cabinet and backbox. Also, the quote doesn't change the fact cheap foreign plywood have proliferated the market, some of which don't even have a grade stamp on them. They have undercut American and Canadian plywood prices by 50%. Lastly, the quote talks about the issue of.moisture content which I pointed to in my original post.

Is that right?

https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Lumber_Core_Plywood.html

I believe its supposed to be at 9% but how do you know it is? Chicago gaming only buys from one mill? CG only buys from one brand? How is it that the ghosting and clear cracking are now solved? Is it because Stern changed their practices? AS pf clear looks like glass now...why? But hey that’s not possible because they’ve been doing the same exact thing since the 1980s.
So again you can say and tell me how it was or how it’s supposed be but you got pages and pages of pinside topics that point to something being changed.

Steel vs. wood....steel always wins. Steel vs. wood......

Thanks for reminding me, I'm out.

Here we go again.....don’t say anything O-din!
It turns out they do use different wood type core and CPR and Stern is Venner plywood.

From CPR website:
What kind of wood are CPR's playfields made from?

CPR only uses the very best wood we can get our hands on. Currently we use a very expensive custom made wood from Wisconsin. It has four layers of Maritime Hard Rock Maple and three interior layers of white ash. Normal Stern wood is a .5325" thick with one good face of 0.060" veneer. We upped this specification considerably. We use two THICK 0.080" face veneers (25% thicker than normal) which allows our CNC operator, Tanner to pick the very best side for your PF and we upped the thickness of the board to 0.545" which gives a better balance with the veneers and reduces warping. The thicker face veneers on our wood (25% thicker than anything in use anywhere) means a much denser wood surface and less ball dimples than anything ever made. Some of our finished PFs weigh more than 15lbs, and are so dense we have seen certain examples of ours PFs almost double the weight of a factory NOS board!

Last one for the road.

That's not the kind of dimpling were seeing in Sterns, this is like an "Orange Peel" translation= normal shallower dimples. Now look at this BM66

595b9b6657536725e6c52d521a0b302e6a7c7787 (resized).jpg

Haha, I posted a quote from CPR that pretty much gave us proof that you're wrong. You had said all pinball pfs were made from hard maple all the way through, which the quote proved false, you said no foregin plywood is made from maple, I posted ads from China with Lumber core hardwood. You point to the soft iron magnet core dimple over the huge craters in the wood to tell us Steel is harder than wood. But you want us to beleive your word (which yiou have no proof of) over our eyes. I guess I'm a flat earther, I will wear that badge with pride.

I apprecaite Vid, I just don't agree with his mantra over my own eyes. I own and owned many Sterns machines. Also Bally/Williams Gottliebs, I've seen the difference in real life so I'm only debating that. No the rest of the helpful thing Vid has posted. Btw, can I still like Vid and disagree with him, or should I consider him a diety and just take his word as gospl?

My own unproven theory is that there was a problem with the pfs and after BM66 (or during production) they may have switched gears and rectified. AS pfs look amazing, everyone say so too. It's not too far fetched to think, perhaps with the new facility and new production levels at Stern coulpled with JJP, Spooky and CG demand for pfs may have led them to source alternate providers which may not have had as high a standard as the previous supplier. ?

Exactly, there has been pf issues in the past. To say the wood is the same, the manufactuting of the wood is the same and the deep dimples are normal leaves little room for error...doesn't it?

I believe the magnet core is not solid steel it's most likely an alloy of soft Magnesium and Iron......

Also I may have missed the part where you said the webapge does not have maple plywood, I thought you had said it was all "lumber core".....so here is better one. A MAPLE plywood made in India.....

A plywood from India made from Maple from N. America

https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/maple-plywood-13288947462.html

Most likely, (no way of being 100 % sure without metallurgical testing) it's an alloy of Iron and other metals. Hence, the softness.

Not if it's an alloy of Magnesium and Zinc.

Come on Vid man, don't get angry, but can we stop moving the goal post? I'm answering your quote above, no hard maple plywood except from N. America.

Evading, how about you guys using false analogy to keep this myth going? Let me be clear I don't even want to obfuscate the subject by talking about the magnet but I will answer to keep it from being used as an excuse..........
1. The magnet core is not hardend steel, it's a soft alloy, most likey Magnesium, Iron and Zinc. The matte color is a good indication, also, after a whie full steel would stay magnetic after the induction charge is stopped.
2. The core is dimpled becuase when the magnet is inducted it will slam that ball on top of the core with a much harder force than you will ever see in the game from the flipper action.

PS: so how come on some of those Bally/Williams games pfs looks same under the plastics where there was no ball travel? It was pounded smooth...right? But you should see a difference though..right? How come when a pinsider used a 10,000 Dollar instrument to check the hardness on seveal games it was dismissed as nonesense? Because with proof after proof it's easier for some to just repeat the mantra. The mantra is now like my magic phrase....say it and poof! I will appear.

Lol....one dimple

Wow, from Stern's Grand Wizard of illusions himself. I always had a feeling you kinda had a connection. But to take a page out of your own book, I said the core, not the sleeve, by any chance does Jody have anything he wants to contribute himself about the pf issues or is he resigned to just pull strings from the sideline?

Obey.......consume....don't belive your eyes, believe us.........

consume (resized).jpg

No, did you? with all the stuff about the pf being Maple all the way through? Or the fact that Maple plywood is only sourced in N. America? when you provide real proof, such as the grade of the so called sleeve I will say so....there are grades of steel that are soft. ex: soft annelled steel. Besides, now we all know you might shilling for Stern.

PS: fixed it for you vid

Dude, I listed the CPR quote because you said the pfs were made from Maple all the way through....myth busted. Then you said it was made from "Lumber Core Plywood, only from N. America....I listed the companies that sell Lumber Core Plywood....myth busted. Then you said the lumber core plywood does not say Maple....then I listed hard Maple Plywood from India. Lumber core is the spec of plywood, it only designates that the plywood is lumber all the way through...not that it's Maple.

DON"T TRUST YOUR EYES! Trust Stern and its army. Now repeat after me....Steel Vs Wood, Steel wins.

At a boy....I didn't expect anything less from you. You forgot to repeat your mantra. Also let's not be alarmed we have a pinball authority figure telling us we're wrong whose in with Stern's company messanger......control the narrative, control the masses.

Well Vid, I won't believe anything you're saying anymore. Pinside can decide for themselves. The revelation here is that we are being told otherwise by a guy who has a relationship with Stern.

PS: I wonder how many other influential people here are bought off.

Oh, good, so you don't have any contact with Jody?

Let's not drag Hilton or Aliens into this....plenty of other threads for that.

A woman name Jody, that has Stern repair docs?.....Ok, I'll buy it.

But with lots of porn, I imagine.

Aurich I'm not sure about you, you've been a critic of Stern every now and again, but if you disclose it, like you did with Heighway, it's fine. You mentioned Hilton, do you think his pumping of a company may have had a negative impact for certain Pinsiders? What does the rest of the message say? Are you getting something from them, or just news?

But Vid, isn't this a different Jody from the one you were talking about? The other Jody that took you a day to clear up after my posting?

Finally, something I can believe.

Lol...sorry, I actually have a real job, I'm multi-tasking, but carry on with the interesting pictures, please.

I guess you're upset...watch some porn and fix some machines, it will cheer you up.

Vid, there is no dodge, you called me (and others), Flat-earthers, Pindicks, and now mentally handicapped. I think we should stop responding to one another. I still very much appreciate your repair threads.