Because then you could go to all the dimpling threads and present your data and be more persuasive. Otherwise people will just argue with you and not necessarily believe you.

I think you missed the part where I had the answer. I don’t. I am tired of folks making stuff up. Be a scientist, get real data, back it up with research and get it validated. All I see is constant armchair diagnosis to be honest.

Oh boy, dimples AGAIN?!

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Just pulled in Procrastinator's gauge testing results, which bear out that Stern has the softest playfields of everyone overall. A few Stern bright spots, but not many recently.

This!!

It’s hard to see dimples on games with thousands of plays on them. They cover the playfield so completely after a while, it becomes flat again

I think you missed the post where I pulled in the data of playfields from all eras tested with a gauge and Stern having the softest playfields overall. Page 2, end of the page. Completely opposes the "made up" Stern party line - with facts.

Link?

It's a key post, but it's not showing up yet. Just go to page 2 of this thread and scroll to the bottom.

EDIT: Link showing up in the key post index at the top of each page now.

If it is a professional camera production going on there is going to lots of high powered lighting aimed at the subject. Some people's eyes cannot handle the bright lights.

Some of you guys are kinda missing the point.

How can the Stern playfields made by Mirco, be any softer than the JJP playfields made by Mirco?

Same manufacturer, same Birch plywood, same clearcoat.

Factual answers only please; I'll take my answer off the air.....

How does that make sense? If 1000s of dimples compress the wood to where its all the same level (and thus flat again), then wouldn't there be change in the height of the surface between where the ball travels and where it does not (like under the slingshot)?

Maybe I'm missing something.

The reports of severe dimplying on Stern playfields could very well be those that were made by FUN, not Mirco. I'm not sure if FUN is still making playfields for Stern. If Stern is using multiple manufacturers for playfields this could also explain why some Stern playfields dimple more severely then others.

that link is very helpful PinMonk & TimeBandit and part of the puzzle and if put together with video and further tests it would show the differences between old and new playfield and between manufacturers.

Mirco has levels of service. He'll do ceramic finishes if you want to pay for it. I'm sure no manufacturer does. His process has changed, too. His earlier PFs were better than his newer stuff. No idea if he offers grades of wood to manufacturers to cut costs.

I would love to see a deep dive into why the most recent playfields from Stern (especially) suck, with charts (and graphs!) showing type of wood, wood density, clear process (hot cure, slow cure), etc. But it would be expensive and I doubt we'll ever see it.

But the hardness gauge test HAS been done and many Sterns are confirmed the softest, so that's plenty to call Steve's video Stern propaganda.

Good points. Doesn't Churchill Cabinet Company make cabinets for Stern, JJP, and PPS yet the Stern cabinets are not as high of quality as ordered by JJP and PPS? Sounds like a manufacturer can offer similar products but at varying levels of quality depending on materials used.

Thus there are too many variables to make a thin air comparison.

-

Like I always say:

Bring your **no dimple** playfield to Expo.

I'll bring a Jenka testing rig (the only professional way wood hardness is tested), and we'll test it.

Show me a Birch playfield that is harder than a Maple playfield.

Show me a Maple playfield that is harder than another Maple playfield.

THEN we can talk meaningfully.

I just did you dimple test challenge. And the winner is...................

The play field is a Classic Stern Big Game, circa 1980, that I'm restoring. I never noticed any dimples before I took it down to restore it. It is clearcoated and the clear has had 8 months to cure. I dropped a ball 3 times in the apron area. I did not do any measuring. I dropped it from about 12 inches high. And....you cannot see them, they are small, but I got 3 dimples. Small dimples that you cannot see but you can feel them. I think I will move onto other things in the pinball world to talk about.

Chrizg runs a few Up / Downs. All games are $.25 and on some days only $.05 and the place is almost always packed. Around here it's mostly hipsters and casual players that wouldn't last 2 minutes on a typical pinball machine, let alone a game like Ghostbusters. If it's possible to get that many plays anywhere, it would be there.

The Youtube video that came directly after the video linked on the first post here was awesome . Not sure if it would be the next video for everyone but it was a walk through of the Stern factory. Nice to see a bunch of people building pinball machines . They were assembling Iron Maidens , quite a few people working and there was a bunch of Iron Maidens in various stages of completion . I thought that was pretty cool .

What's with the sunglasses? I thought he was a pinball designer not a rock star. Have all the translite signings etc at shows gone to his head?

Cataract surgery.

Where does one go to get their eyeballs calibrated for accuracy of these dimple-depth observation statements?

Sunglasses....more likely beer goggles!

Woz is the worst PF I’ve ever owned and yet it doesn’t matter

Get em Vid!

Now we are going to argue about the diameter of the dimples. I love it!

The answer - either implied or literal - is that “stern hates us and/or is cheap.”

It’s completly emotional and makes no sense. Nothing has changed in playfield development and production in many years.

Leave poor Ritchie alone! He’s only been around and designed pinball most of his adult life.

But I’m sure the Stern hating “newbies” know better

What he is really saying, in a nice way, is that we are all a bunch of F ing dopes for arguing about it

A lot of people are light sensitive due to eye issues.

For fuck sakes. Can I get a "Pinside rating" on this thread? It's gotta be off the charts.

Ve

It’s very close to “best of Pinside” status.

I have never payed any attention I just play and have fun. #drama

I know Ive learned alot about wood density today. NERDS.
All I know is that I want my playfield made from; Jatobo/Brazillian Cherry, not to be confused with domestic cherry.

That is such garbage. My TZ is what 26 years old and looks steller. My Ghostbusters has divots all over it. Personally, it doesn't bother me, I know how it works but to say that there is no difference is crazy.

Stern is cheap. Fact.

Oh, and he looks like a moron wearing sunglasses...

No sunglasses here at TPF this year. Maybe his cataracts healed quick. Sorry to offend your hero of pinball, maybe I will confess that I have sinned.

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1745&bih=978&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=OXfJWrLQDamLjwTvrpzwCQ&q=steve+ritchie+pinball+2018&oq=steve+ritchie+pinball+2018&gs_l=psy-ab.3...9444.10608.0.10953.5.5.0.0.0.0.73.277.5.5.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.73...0i30k1j0i24k1.0.hqR_63remiE#imgrc=NgIE4qlPhDAenM:

Steve!
Steve!
Steve, look at my left hand....
got em.
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It's only science if we can control the variables.

WOZ came in both a Birch and a Maple playfield - which one was tested?

MET came in both a Birch and a Maple playfield - again, which one was tested?

Old games could have been made from Churchill, Lec-Smith, Sun Process, TAG, EAC, the more popular the title, the more likely you can find multiple playfield manufacturers of the same game- which one was tested?

Wood from the same tree will have different hardness. Are we testing directly on a ring (the dark part) or the light part next to it?

Are we doing multiple tests, 4" apart on each sample to get the average?

Are we testing under the apron where no compression has already taken place?

Maple has to be at 9% moisture to glue it into plywood, but are we measuring the CURRENT moisture at the time of testing? Has the plywood become less moist over the years?

Do we have enough samples of each title in each wood species? A trend can't be discovered with a single sample.

This is against all pinside logic.

This is exactly what it is. You have a wms/bally with 50000 plays so it is all dimpled 100% all over.

Dare you question the wood master...

Shlt, you are lucky!

Mine has got to be 25 years old already.

Dude, the craziness of this statement and other related posts shows me that logic again doesn't seem to matter here on the forum. You are comparing six stern machines across eras which show a variety of hardnesses. And at this time they are being compared to one CGC pin, two JJP pins, two Bally pins, and one Williams pin. LOL, as if samples of one or two pins are representative of a manufacturer overall. Basic math stats logic laughs at such comparisons; it's fake news.

NEED MORE DATA.

I didn't know Vid was a ventriloquist. I want a Steve Ritchie puppet, too. Wait a miniute, on second thought, there's not enough hand cleaner in the world!

More like $200k for a basic one from Instron.

As long as something doesn’t affect play...I could care less. Don’t get me wrong, I want my game to look good, but above all perform/play good. I have dimples. But I play the sh!t out of them, and have a blast doing it.