Welcome back my friends to the argument that never ends, we're so glad you could attend, come inside, come inside..

I don't see any Hard Maple Lumber Core on that page.

What are you trying to show us?

If you see it delaminating, you know that it was higher or lower when made.

Hard Maple and Teak are very specific in their requirements.

Holy moly this song.

It's pretty good after all this time.

I do like that we are all discussing these playfield technicalities. It's better than the real world affairs.

Thanks for reminding me, I'm out.

Here we go again.....don’t say anything O-din!
It turns out they do use different wood type core and CPR and Stern is Venner plywood.

From CPR website:
What kind of wood are CPR's playfields made from?

CPR only uses the very best wood we can get our hands on. Currently we use a very expensive custom made wood from Wisconsin. It has four layers of Maritime Hard Rock Maple and three interior layers of white ash. Normal Stern wood is a .5325" thick with one good face of 0.060" veneer. We upped this specification considerably. We use two THICK 0.080" face veneers (25% thicker than normal) which allows our CNC operator, Tanner to pick the very best side for your PF and we upped the thickness of the board to 0.545" which gives a better balance with the veneers and reduces warping. The thicker face veneers on our wood (25% thicker than anything in use anywhere) means a much denser wood surface and less ball dimples than anything ever made. Some of our finished PFs weigh more than 15lbs, and are so dense we have seen certain examples of ours PFs almost double the weight of a factory NOS board!

^ Welcome back

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Last one for the road.

And here I am worried about these new Earthshaker playfields because of all this Stern playfield BS. Time to place my order.

I've got a really nice Eartshaker that the factory mylar was removed just prior to me getting it. And now that we've played it some, guess what.

No dimples!

Thank you. This proves that not all playfields are created the same and some are more prone to dimpling than others.

It does? It PROVES it?

Someone needs to go back to school.

If it **proves** anything, it's that CPR has used a core wood, namely Ash, that is SOFTER than Hard Maple.

Hard Maple = 1400

Ash = 1290

Why use wood at all, given all the variables? I know it's been discussed, but a synthetic material similar to wood seems like it could solve the issue.

Time to give balsa wood a shot

Ok, I performed the ultimate test. I had a friend wallop me over the right side of my head with a newer Stern playfield , (unpopulated of course as having someone smash you with a populated playfield would be just stupid and dangerous ) and then the left side of my head with an older Williams playfield and after careful inspection, I can honestly say that there were just as many dipples on the left side of my head as there was on the right. So there you go. I think we finally have the answer !
Now let's play some pinball !!

Because Stern, JJP, & Spooky don't think that dimpling is an issue.

Anyone that does think it's an issue always just buys a playfield protector and never thinks about it again.

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Just looks like two different kinds of wood. Pine and maybe cherry? Probably not even old/new growth, the text reads like some scare-mongering political garbage.

And please remember, playfields are made from different layers of pressed wood ... multiplex wood.

Seriously. How are they getting those new ones to grow faster? Lumberjacks sitting around singing to them day and night?

My understanding is old growth lumber has to do with trees being tightly packed together so they fight for sunlight, water, and other nutrients. Thus they grow a lot slower. Lumber now is planted purposefully so they are spread out and get all they need to grow faster. I don't know that for a fact though, just what I have heard.

I saw this and thought of the thread. I don't know if its true or not but possibly relevant. Please don't shoot the messenger.

It's legit. I see it referenced all the time how old wood is better than new wood. They dive for the stuff down here in Florida too.

https://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/24/us/with-timber-scarce-old-logs-deep-in-a-lake-become-a-sunken-treasure.html

I remember seeing a show on this. They pay a premium for the old timber.

>>>> MAPLE IS NOT AN OLD GROWTH WOOD <<<<<

Hard Maple trees are harvested when they are 100-125 years old

As soon as they are no good for syrup production, they are cut down and a new crop planted.

>>>> MAPLE IS NOT AN OLD GROWTH WOOD <<<<<

Old growth forest had a 300 foot tall canopy that kept trees in the shade that is why tight rings poor growing conditions

Any evidence it's actually the wood and not just the clear layer dimpling?

It's the wood, too. If it were just the clear, there would be dimpling over the inserts.

The balls have gotten harder.

I've looked on my dimpled playfields and they don't seem to dimple over inserts. But I'm working hard every day to eliminate the them dimples. It's a tough job but someone has to do it.

Feel it. It’s smooth.

I just checked, mine seem fine.

SR was blinking for help in morse code

Here is a treat for the nubies.

How about a 35 year old Comet, sealed under factory Mylar for it's entire life, until just 30 minutes ago?

It's been broken since 1989 (based on the oldest coin in the cashbox), burred under 20 boxes of old clothes, no keys to the locks.

Will it have dimples? Or was Maple growing to thousands of years old back then, harder than steel?

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It's sad that a game that only got 5 years of play, and was protected by some of the thickest Mylar I've ever pulled, and was made from "old growth" 1985 Maple, still had dimples.

Could it be that a steel ball is still harder than "old growth" Maple + Mylar????

"Hey, Turkey. Dimple me."

That's not the kind of dimpling were seeing in Sterns, this is like an "Orange Peel" translation= normal shallower dimples. Now look at this BM66

595b9b6657536725e6c52d521a0b302e6a7c7787 (resized).jpg

Now look at that magnet core.

If that chunk of steel is dimpling, what chance does a piece of wood have??

I've been working on an equation that explains the physics behind the witnessed phenomena:

Hardened Ball Bearing > Steel Magnet Core > Wood

Yes.... this is what i mean.
All playfields dimple a bit, but the new Stern's look like a moon surface afther 500 game's.
NEVER had this extreme dimples on the 120 machines that i have had in the last 40 years.
The wood was harder and the dimples les deep.

I’ve looked at all my machines and see dimpling and scratches on all of the play fields. The older routed machines are smooth in high traffic areas, which supports that they have been pounded smooth by 1000s of plays. Newer machines with newer clear, darker art, and brighter lighting highlight dimpling, but dimpling doesn’t affect gameplay, nor does it affect the art. If you want a perfect playfield, simply refrain from plugging the machine in. “Problem” solved.

How hard was the wood on the other machines and how deep were the dimples?

How hard is the wood on your new Sterns and how deep are the dimples?

You're faking the images, everyone knows only new games dimple!! [/sarcasm]

My God look at that thing! No wonder they decided to pull it from the rotation...

All I can say is just because they've been building pinball playfields out of substandard materials for the entire history of the game doesn't mean someone shouldn't look to improve the situation now. If we play our cards right and start making playfields out of long lived synthetic materials maybe one day when you walk along an unmaintained shore somewhere you can wade through interesting old pinball playfields instead of empty water bottles and caps... "Look at this one, not a mark on it!"

Because honestly...who cares about some dimpling?

Man Pinside does...fill in whatever wacky shit you can come up with and it will come true.

Video games have never dimpled.