I am a bit late to the party, but if there is one thing I can say is:

Derek, thank you for the enthusiasm and inside info for all these years. It has been over the top most of the time, but has put a smile on my face more often than not.

The people bagging on you for bringing this info have some valid points, but if you want to take anything constructive away from that you can pass on that many of your best customers who have plowed money into your games for the last few years are pissed. Ignore them at your peril.

You have jacked your prices up to the point that boutique manufacturers such as Spooky pinball can offer a legitimate product at a price that "seems" reasonable in this environment. And if companies like Heighway can deliver on the higher end, so much the better.

The most depressing thing now that I think about this thread?

Derek is hyping not the next game, but the one after. That means the next one must be a real stinker

I personally had a conversation with Gary Sept 13th. F&F was discussed

Great license with count 'em 7 movies now. Classic cars, new cars, women, Vin Diesel custom speech.

I see it doing well as a Pro and Premium.... LE not so much. The whole LE thing I believe has about fizzled out. I predicted the collapse of the LE framework to happen in 2013-2014. I think it's almost there.. Prices are out of control, and the buyers have only so much money and/or space.

Certain titles sure do warrant an LE, music pins for sure. ie: Muppets or WD probably. But say an Angry Birds or Hunger Games LE.. ahhh NO.

Potential for greatest single callout Evah!

Very interesting!

Do you think that we'll reach Peak Pinball in 2014?

(See "Peak Oil! Peak Pinball?" thread)

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I disagree on this. Code is better, but there are still lots of flaws.

Dead pool was there from day #1 Stern does not have the choice to pull it away.

Back on topic new summer game on the new Stern Hardware platform with LEDs in the backbox and a LCD display and Borg designing. Rumors were Vin Diesel visited Stern and is a pinball nut..... hmmmmmmm

I agree.

Prices too high. No incentive to get an LE - especially with ST 799 and WOZ 2500!

And Stern have shot themselves in foot with so much unfinished code.

Music pins are the exception as say 500 KISS LE would sell out as fans would buy a ton. But beyond music pins, nope.

I would be down for that! Great movies!

So selling 1000 Medieval Madness LEs in a few hours is 'fizzling out'? The Stern LE thing might be fizzling out because it's well...Stern.

On a side note..it's almost a relief not playing into the Stern hype train. As a NIB Wolverines and Metallica owner I've pretty much have the attitude that new Stern pins don't exist. To be honest I'm enjoying the hobby much more because of it.

Stern is just a shitting business in general. If there wasn't newly added competition...they probably wouldn't even consider revisiting the code debacle that is Xmen and Metallica. That tells me they don't give a flying F%@I> about their customers. But now that 10s of millions of dollars are being spent at other pinball manufactures...their gonna consider it?

Suck it Stern...

1000 MMr was the holy grail game and based off folks thinking its worth 15. And that has fizzled a bit and more money has not been called for yet.
So I would say yeah the steam is gone.
Many of us who lined up for Stern Les are out. Led Zep maybe but even my most covered title would probably be a great pro title so why throw that money away. And buying Les is totally throwing money away.

I think it is all about exposure. Stern has to have the worst marketing team possible. How is it that Sony Playstation can sell one million units in a matter of hours. I think in order to get pinball to continue in growth and interest Stern really needs to step it up. My buddy and I had a similar thought the other day. Stern can hire me to go around the United States with a bad ass semi truck with Stern graphics all over. It would be loaded with all the new Stern titles and a nation wide tour to shopping malls on the weekend. The games are set up behind velvet ropes for people to play and see. I have talked with too many people that do not know that there are companies still manufacturing pinball machines. It is all about exposure and getting the next pinball addict hooked.

MM refakes are NOT sold out. Only $1000 has been paid towards these and it is fully refundable. If they would have asked for full payment up front they would have been lucky to have sold 200 to this point. When the other $7000 is due we will see what happens but until then they are far from sold out.

It is not Stern's fault.

With all the marketing and exposure in the world, getting people to line up around the block to spend anywhere from 8-10K for a full-featured game is just never going to be practical.

First and foremost: There is an order of magnitude difference in the cost of those items. For the cost of a full-featured Premium or LE pin from any manufacturer, the PS4 plus about 100+ games can be bought as well as a NETFLIX subscription etc etc.

There simply is no comparison in the entertainment value for the dollar. Economically, console gaming makes much more financial sense to families and parents and kids spending money than buying a pinball machine.

Cheapening new pinball machines AKA "the pin", costco versions, zizzle etc. is not the answer. The remakes of B/W classics is not the answer (8K for arguably the best known modern-era pinball machine is NOT a bargain). Introducing a beloved 75-year old theme to the world is not the answer.

Unfortunately, today there is no answer to get more brand new pins to the masses.

The fact is plain and simple: The prices of new pinball machines consistently keeps getting further out of reach for average people. Pinball machines take up a lot of space and cost a lot of money-for just one new game. Console gaming will always be more easily affordable, accessible, reliable and provide much more gaming variety. And they are easier for Santa Claus to haul around than pinball machines.

I love pinball more than any other hobby out there, but facts are facts.

I live my life a quarter mile at a time.

Well, there is only one theme which will piss my wife off because I will order it without her consent. Iron Maiden. Anything else is blah, blah, blah.

Has zero to do with marketing, has to do with that pesky $4,000-$9,000 price tag. Plain and simple.

Comparing demand and sale of a $5,000 product with a $500 product is completely moot.

All the marketing on earth can't reverse the fact that a NIB pin will cost as much money to the average family as their used car.

This secret boys club of na na boo boo i know and you don't I'm sure makes all the upset folks warm and fuzzy for Stern.

Iron maiden will be great title
But by Jersey jack pinball

Exactly. I am frustrated that the word cannot be heard. It seems like if they were to have in a retail location inside shopping malls then maybe it would increase exposure? I am seeing less and less mall arcades and more and more barcades. I know the average household will not justify a $5000 form of entertainment but a $500 playstation is somewhat affordable. I do however see a niche market in the thirty to fifty year olds with disposable income. Some choose to buy a sports car or a rolex while some enjoy home entertaining. A pinball and pool table sounds like a good idea for their home. I think it comes down to education and making the consumer aware of what is out there. Pinball is kinda a "secret hobby" that many cannot relate to until they have experienced it. If pinball is not more prevalent in the public forum then exposure will never happen.

Agreed. And if that doesn't happen then Peak Pinball is just around the corner!

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/peak-oil-peak-pinball

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I guess by Peak pinball you mean, were pinlashed? I agree then because WOZ, AC/DC, MET, ST MMR, Hobitt and Predator have arguably drained a lot of money out of the hobby recently so it's only natural for the buying frenzy to subside a little, but I look at this as a big positive, in the past there were too many eager beavers who jumped on anything Stern was putting out, but now there is competition for your dollars, which will hopefully translate to better games.

Please not Fast and Furious, come on.

2 FAST
2 FURIOUS
2 BALL MULTIBALLLLLLL

I'm a car guy, but the movies themselves suck. Hearing Vin Diesel call outs would not be appealing to me since he has a pretty annoying voice.

Not a terrible theme though, because it's been too long since we've had a pin based on cars. Who would be the designer?

So you're saying you want Lyman in more meetings, doing budgets and working on schedule/project plans instead of doing what he does best? That presumes he has those skills AND the political/interpersonal skills to manage Gary AND is willing to do it.

So we're crapping on a guy for taking a firm-authorized vacation now? Seriously?

They're not volunteers... They're professionals. It's very likely Lonnie cares about quantity because that's the priorities the guy who is paying him has set. If you're looking for someone to hold accountable, it's Gary by definition. The buck stops with him... end of story.

I agree about the benefits of competition but Peak Pinball is something different. Related but different:

See http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/peak-oil-peak-pinball

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I'm hoping it is something really bloody.

Vagina Monologs
Mixed reviews on Pro features

LOL

I just heard about an untitled Balde Runner Sequel in 2014 so some of you might get your wish. In the mean time I bet on Capt. America pin coming our way.

I love comic book themes but even i'm full up. Or at least i have no interest in one based off the movie. I'd buy in if it were drawn art like x-men. Out if its another based off avengers movies.

To be honest - with the millions the big title video/home console games are making, surprised there isn't a them based off one of them. Maybe conflict/competition based on the type of buyer gets grand theft auto and others.

It will start 9k then increase to 11k no thanks....oh and we would get it in say 3 years....BOOOOO!

Quite honestly, they would do much better with GTA as the license over F&F. Similar type theme but much more appeal with not only pinheads but all peeps. You'd get more LE appeal too, especially a Vice City LE

I'm really shocked there hasn't been a gta pin yet. Guess rockstar could care less about a few royalties from pins when they make billions selling games.

Musketd/Derek = Prick Tease

I'm guessing if a successful software company saw how Stern does things they would be like:

GTA would be an amazing pin, but I think an IRON MAIDEN machine could be very kool too.

I know what you did last summer LE?

Hang in there buddy!

Derek,

Put it on the table - what's the title? Then when it gets released we will see if you are in the know or just stirring the pot........

Rockstar wouldn't even talk to Stern years ago when they were approached. I'm guessing they don't really need the headache of making a tiny amount of money to have someone possibly misrepresent their brand.

So we can start a FS thread early

sometimes the truth hurts.

Time to either buck up or shut up. People are sick of the hype machine from those that look to make a profit off the hobby. Go get the community some new code!!!!!!!

If true, I'm surprised to hear it was even on Stern's radar. I wonder how badly they were shut out or if there is some future possibility of this still happening. I always thought it would be a great title to do.

Did ya try ordering one? You would be about 1000th on the waiting list...probably deeper

Says who? At a measly thousand bucks which is fully refundable its not surprising that most are on hold. We'll see what happens when they need the other 7 grand... timing will be everything.

You obviously post on this site frequently thus you shouldn't be surprised by the negative responses. The minute a new title is announced it is not long before a post is up asking "what is going to be the next title". To put a post up advising that "you're going to be so excited" and not provide details is just a "waste of people's time", Certainly understand that you may not be able to provide details so it may be best, in the future, not to post anything till you are allowed to divulge said information. Of course as I write this I am certain you will get people to say they enjoy the fact that you provide what information, no matter how little, you have!

With that said you can now PM me with the title and info !!!

a rayman origins Pin!!!