It really blows my mind that people are sitting out buying a game because they think a VE is coming.

It's gotta have less to do with money and more to do with not wanting to be that guy who bought a used game when they could have got a VE. The price isn't even a factor on any titles these days!

You can get mint, HUO Trons for $5000 these days, with the only mod that matters, the lit ramps.

So people are gonna feel like suckers if 18 months from now they could have gotten one for $4500, and end up pouring 500 clams into stupid mods anyway?

Anybody remember pinball Jim? He was a big blowhard on RGP who once mocked me for trying to sell an AFM for $3000

I remember once someone was trying to sell a woodrail for $900. "In 20 years, those games will be worth $200!!!!" Uh, great. All I gotta do is wait 20 years? Aren't you the smartest guy in the room.

Seems like people are just tired of paying big money for games and looking for excuses to sit it out. No complaints from me that shit was getting crazy anyway. The VE gambit was a brilliant one from Stern, who often get mocked here for their lack of marketing savvy. Not only did they sell a bunch of Iron Men, they scared people away from buying other used Stern stuff and funneled them toward Walking Dead or whatever they are pumping out next. Nice move.

I gotta agree with da hero. You aren't gonna see VEs pumped out like clockwork, just ain't gonna happen. Makes no sense. They'll be years apart, like Stern re-runs have ALWAYS been.

What leftover Iron Man parts? Targets? Magnets? Coils? Rubber? IM doesn't HAVE any game specific parts. That's why its BOM is SO LOW. The playfields were new. The decals were new. Even the figurines were new cuz they didn't have enough Hasbro ones leftover.

I would take that bet Aye, the illogical speculation continues. There is ZERO demand to warrant new versions of those games. ZERO POINT ZERO.

Rarehero, as usual I agree with much of what you say. The one caveat being that I think Stern has already tarnished the "LE" substantially. TWD (one of the hottest, if not the hottest, licenses they have ever had) is not selling out of the LE's.

I don't think we will ever see a repeat of what happened with Metallica, that boat has sailed as the LE's depreciated right out of the gate on every game since ACDC.

They've sold out to distributors - that's makes Stern happy.

The game has been out for 2 seconds...not one LE has shipped...too early to complain about it "not selling out".

Huh? I can still find these NIB.

Why buy X-Men VE for $5,400, when you get a Wolverine for $6,200?

Avengers is starting to get discounted…and there is a premium version.

I like your gambling spirit but have to agree with RareHero that these two can't possibly be VE contenders right now. Stern doesn't care if supply is low if the demand isn't there for new $5,000 units. That's all they will be looking at!

Perhaps I am, but I guess I am hoping for a stronger pinball customer base.

I don't have the statistics on this, I prefer to get new when I can because I like new, and not very good at repairing so I am definitely looking at it from my perspective - it may be unique.

This thread is of a speculative nature, if you find it exhausting why do you bother? If convincing people that your opinion is correct, and their option is not correct is too taxing why waste your time. Do you think it is possible that what you point out is fact is indeed your opinion and may be incorrect?

You make it sound like Stern don't care if the distributors don't sell their pre ordered TWDLE's. If the distributors don't sell out, or if it's too slow, they won't be so confident ordering the next LE. Then Stern will care.

Whats happening with TWDLE is not really a comment on the LE concept. Its more a reflection on Stern releasing 1/2 finished code, and also the amount of new top-end titles just about to be released from other suppliers. Collectors still want LE's, but with so much competition around at the moment, collectors can afford to wait. This wasn't the case with ACDC or Metallica.

Are they readily available though? I've never seen one.. I mean I know they exist, but I figured they're as rare as Unicorn poop. Probably even more rare than the LE's!

Well, it's a -

Mystery-300x300.jpg

http://www.pinballsandgames.com/avengers.html

Wow, you guys still talking about this?

Anything been decided?

Again, a few hundred Vault Editions doesn't have anything to do with a stronger pinball customer base. If you're a pinball customer, and you want an LOTR, go out and get an LOTR. If you want a Tron, go out and get a Tron. If you want one of the 15 models Stern is currently producing, go buy one of those.

New games break too....start learning out to fix things. It's actually quite satisfying to tinker. Finding a cheap old game and bringing it back from the dead and making it look play and look as good as new is very satisfying.

Everything in this thread is opinion...however, I back up my opinion with logic and precedent. Those going "LOTR Vault and Spidey Vault are coming!" have zero logic behind their speculation. I suppose I just should stop responding, but when I see something illogical I can't help it.

Going back to your point about what's good for the hobby...while I have no problem with Vault Editions (I own IMve), I think it's slightly unhealthy when people have convinced themselves that every good Stern is ripe for a VE, and then deprive themselves of enjoying those games. I can pretty much guarantee you'll never see LOTR, TSPP, or Spidey VE. If you want to sit on your hands waiting & not playing, that's up to you...but playing is more fun.

I am sure that they do, but I would rather get a new one and baby it, and fix as needed to get started. Maybe after a few years I will be able to dabble in fix'er up'ers.

We can agree to disagree on the topic of VE's, Premiums, and if it is good or bad. I guess I am more of an optimist and you a realist. But I think we both want the hobby to grow. So that's a good thing.

True, I am a realist...hopefully an optimistic realist, cuz I definitely don't agree with the "doom&gloomers". This hobby's been growing since I've been collecting & hasn't stopped...I started with Vids since '03, transitioned to Pins around '07. Seems pretty common for vid collectors to "evolve" to pins, sometimes dropping out of the vid scene completely....which, btw - while a similar hobby, is totally different in the sense that vid collectors don't even REMOTELY give a shit about new games! LOL Classics or nothin!

Good point. I have a x-arcade MAME cab to play the 80's classics, Space Ace, Dragon's Lair, and 90s fighters like Marvel vs Capcom, Street Fighter, etc. However, I actually enjoy pinball now more - but not the older pins (only the modern pins). The older one are interesting, but I don't get a kick out of playing those. I like the MAME system, and yes I buy and play the latest Xbox One and PC titles, but there is something extra special about a good pin! That is why I am bit more passionate/vocal about giving new pinheads the ability to get the best pins from the last decade without having to spend an arm and a leg. Sure, I could buy one of the few TRON LEs -and there would be one less and they would go up more (perhaps), but I would prefer many more Pinhead be able to get a TRON Premium. May never happen - but you never know. We can look at the past and say not going to happen.The past is not a guarantee of future events - who would have thought in the 90s that pinballs would be in a growing (booming?) state in the late 2000's? So while we look back at the last several years for 'logic' or 'precedent' - we have to be careful with words like never and zero.

Hey, I started collecting after Big Bang Bar was remade...and any time I brought up that I'd love to have one, all the owners gave me the "you snooze, you lose" line - even Gene Cunningham basically told me "you're f*cked" lol. Like you with Tron - I didn't snooze - I just wasn't around at the time. *shrug* - what can you do...some games are rare and that's the way it goes. No one is entitled to games. If it's rare and expensive, buy something else and play the "holy grails" at a show or a friend's house.

At least with Tron you can get a Pro and it won't cost an arm and a leg. None of the other games people keep speculating about cost an arm and a leg. If you have patience and do a little searching, you can find most of the good games at decent prices. If you want it NOW and in perfect shape - yeah, you might have to pay up to pry it away from someone. That's why collecting older games & projects is great...you can get some "cheap" games to have fun with and learn on while waiting to cross paths with that grail game.

Classics will be classics and I get that for sure - we can't remake all the good ones. TRON (and a few others) are still in that zone that aren't too far gone for Stern. TRON Pro is fine, but it would be nice to get a updated Pro in the VE.
If you look at TRON on the 'Top 100' it is perhaps not as deserving as some of the other Stern pins, but TRON has the benefit of being newer - and therefore a VE that is in Sterns reach. There are PROs available yes - but the VE marketing and upgrades my get a few more TRONs out there in game rooms. I have came to the conclusion that I may skip on TRON anyway - there are so many new pins that are coming soon. I don't think I will be a collector - or have a large number of pinball machines. So I may just grab another after hobbit like TBL and be done

My game room has my pool table, poker/chess table, a MAME cab, and soon 2 pinball machines and my mini bar - all the room I have anyway - but I am content

I don't think you buying an LE or not will directly impact others ability to buy a TRON Premium ( which doesn't exist)...or any title for that matter....."Limited Edition" is exactly that. Not reserved just for PB, and manufacturers generally take the term seriously, if they value the credibility of their Company.
If a person is a genuine fan of a particular hobby, there will always be items that were produced in limited additions, and simply not available anymore, or extremely expensive. There are also many, many other items that are enjoyable, collectible, and still allow this Fan to enjoy their hobby.

For the life of me, why would anyone believe that a Company would market an item that deliberately devalues the very thing that made the "LE" an " LE" to start with?

We are so fortunate in our hobby...there are MANY titles and price points to choose from to feed our habit.....all of my pins are not LE's, and I enjoy them all. Have played many, many other pins on location that I also enjoyed and never were/ will be an LE.

If you want new generations of players to enjoy this hobby, root/ lobby for great titles at reasonable prices. An LE is an LE, it is what it is...end of story......yes, I believe more remakes will be coming, but an LE will not be one of them ( Promise to myself...I have self imposed a ban on myself from reading or posting on this topic anymore....just can't listen to it anymore)

No one is entitled to a Grail pin just because they want one. And a lot of players " Grail" isn't an LE anyway.......peace....mark

The green LEs were 1000 and it seems they sold and built all of them. I would guess they sold 600-700 of the standards and 50-150 of the 75th Red LEs. Give or take a little I would be surprised if your LE numbers aren't very high. So the real "LE" is the Red one.

everyone wants in on the tron thang...

tron-cat.jpg

So much debate over LE models... just drop the L and they can be re-run at will forever.

I was actually thinking of going the other route... why not insert a new low-BOM title here and there with a lower price point... simple, fast, 70's/80's style. Everyone is going for the full featured super-priced-models, so as the market gets saturated with expensive pins, seems the time is ripe to do something different.

We all know you like TWD best

image.jpg

They did, it's called "The Pin" lol

They just renewed the WOZ license, so their plan is to keep building as many Standards as possible and the 1500 number they set for the 75th. Whether they get there or not, well...you'll have to see where the next 3 years take us...but it's too early to guess what WOZ final sales numbers will be, aside from the 1000 ECLE's.

I'll take a hemi-modded version

Well who wouldn't. That's like saying I'll take the V8 mustang instead of the V6.

You realize that this fact actually makes it more likely that the hobby is due for a correction? It can't keep going like this forever, with ever increasing prices.

Correction, sure, but full on crash is highly unlikely unless we all quit simultaneously.

We don't have to quit; just run out of room. This hobby, like any hobby, is fueled by new people entering. Stop the flow of new people and growth will cease.

Agree. I part of the correction without question will be the prices on NIB games will come down. The 8k games just won't move; hopefully a reversion to 5k for full featured games will happened and stripped games will drop below 4k.

I think so. With full rooms it will take a well priced and great game to get us to take a 2k hit on our inventory. After next years glut they will have to work hard for our business.

Exactly, the only way this changes is if technology moves to make our existing inventory look old. Will the LCD do this? Who can say.

Good on all 3 of you gents, it looks like sanity is seeping back into the market. I can resurrect a dozen posts about this discussion from 1.5 years ago, most of it when the idea of 8k pinball was still being well received.

I would love to see many Stern re-makes but lets say SM with RGB inserts, 3 colour GI some new code make it more like a premium version not really interested in an updated pro with white led's.

Based on the size of the distro, stern forces them to buy a certain number of nib pins with each release. So distro's are caught off guard with poorly selling titles.

Stern is doing away with the distro that just want one or two pins so that individual distro can get a nib at a discount. Some didn't care if they ever sold any pins.

You forget "The Pin" was made for homes, not arcades.