Who is doing the code?
Not sure how the manga save will work if you have time to hit the center button in the heat of the moment.
Just bought STLE so used my fun money, don’t want to sell anything. I’ll just wait and see how this develops maybe get one down the road. But this is the first Stern pin I’ve really wanted since TWD time.
Quoted from valgalder:
Tim has a really good grasp on what makes good pinball rules because he's a good pinball player and a rules guy. I have faith he will deliver on that end, so that's at least promising.
Agree, I don’t know Tim but more than 1-2 people in the world can make great rules. I just hope they have time or polish and fix bugs. One thing I dislike about some Stern pins as the lack of polish of waiting 2 years for a omelet game.
All 3 look very good think I like the images on the pro best with the sword and horse but the color better on the LE premium is not my favorite but it’s not bad either.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
Premium art package looks very nice and seems to fit the theme well. I like that on the premium the Black Knight is on a horse Bk / BK 2000 style and is actually holding a sword considering the game is called "Black Knight Sword of Fury". Translite and cabinet artwork on the pro and LE are not nearly as appealing in my opinion.
My mistake. If middle is premium (horse) that’s the one I like.
Quoted from HighVoltage:
My initial reaction was "outstanding" and started trying to justify an LE. I've never been an LE buyer, but own and like BK and BK2K, so this might be the one to get me there. Would love to hear if anyone else tries to justify it logically. I tried to quantify it like this...
+$100 Mirrored Backglass
+$100 Art blades
+$100 3-channel amp
+$250 HD glass
About $950. Anyone else try this approach and come up with different numbers? Then there's intangibles like exclusivity and artwork preference.
I wish I could consider the pro, but it's not BK without upper playfield in my opinion. I wish they differentiated elsewhere. I think a better way would have been have the full RGB lighting only on premium and LE. Still give the pro an upper playfield, but keep it simple: maybe virtual lock instead of mechanical one.
As I'm analyzing the gameplay I'm starting to question some of the choices.
I really think the upper playfield orbit shot should have a spinner, which would be great to rip. Don't like that pro has 2 spinners and Prem/LE only 1.
There doesn't look like there's any flow-shot to the upper flipper. It would be great if you could chain lower shot into upper orbit path then to upper flipper and directly chain into ripping orbit shots and through a spinner. Maybe the upper transition shots are landing to the upper flipper, but doesn't look certain to me.
I think the VUK to upper playfield would be better behind the mace (or what weapon is BK holding?). As it is, both transition shots to upper playfield are more stop/go with either VUK or mace-block, although you can miss the mace. I just think it would be better if the far outer shot would be an uninterrupted flow shot to the upper playfield. The VUK seems like it would make more sense behind the mace as that's already a potential stop/go shot anyway.
Lightning wheel looks really plain and cheap to me: just some solid colors. It makes me feel like I'm looking at a Sega. That could really use some more sophisticated design or graphic.
Basically, first thought was outstanding and take-my-money but beginning to talk myself out of it or at least take a wait-and-see approach instead.
I do like there's only 600 LEs, should help keep the value better.
I did the exact same thing said $900-$1000 extra for the LE. I don't care about the limited ness.
Quoted from RGR:
Yeah the Premium is way the best art package
Agree (before I said pro because I thought the premium was the pro, the way it was presented to me thought the first one was pro).
If the premium art was on the LE I would get that no questions.
I like the LEs features but can add most of that like side art and shaker, but basically prefer the art on the premium.
Quoted from sataneatscheese:
Ultima Underworld is my favorite all time game. Never beat it... need to go back and play it on GoG.
It’s hard to go back to old graphics and no ability to free look.
I played back in the day but had to buy a cheat book which took away the magic of self discovery.
Quoted from bigdaddy07:
No need to fret over losing out on an LE. All the cabinets look awesome, so unless getting the real backglass is critical for you, its best just to wait for a premium. Let the early guys work out the bugs/issues and form a solid consensus on its play. At least that's the stance I'm taking on this title.
this is true, Stern made the premium look soo nice and there is nothing critical on the LE.
It's a win if you want an LE (because you should be able to get one without paying through the nose).
It's a win if you want a premium because you can add shaker, side art, anti glare glass as you see fit.
I prefer the premium art package (but they all look great) but I could get a premium + shaker and have enough left over to get 4 pieces of PDI glass.
My concern is one single ramp, sorry that there is not a ramp that can return the ball to the left flipper.
I’m still trying to picture the ramp in action is it like GOT premium where the ramp has to pass through the upper PF?
You can see on the PF Black Knight has both sword and mace/flail. I’m not a big fan of two armed fighters as likely a sword + sheild or a two-handed sword would be more effective.
Quoted from November:
Just to compare prices between USA and mainly Europe, what will be the final price included all taxes and fee for a premium Version in USA ?
it's not useful to compare the prices when you say ... including all taxes.
It's almost like if I was to go on a predominantly French web site and ask what do you guys pay for Health care or what do you pay for college Tuition? Here in US you can pay between $9K to $60K for college tuition per year.
In France, Germany etc.. people get paid maternity/paternity leave, free health care, free or subsidized child care, free or subsidized college tuition.
I believe the money for all these services comes from somewhere so that if you pay more for xyz item (say a pinball machine) but you get free health care that more than balances out. I pay $15K a year for health care, when kids needed child care was $500/week etc..
So it's important to note that when you are 'paying for a pinball machine" you are also paying for free healthcare, maternity leave etc..
but to answer your question some states may not owe any tax some may owe 2-10% tax depends on what state you are talking about.
I was quoted $7300 premium (including shipping) that could mean $7300 (no tax) to $8K (10% tax).
I’m fairly split pro v LE/premium
Have Acdc and ST premium/Le
Initially wanted to get the premium but almost might rather have the pro in that
2) still has full Knight toy with head lights and rear back wall lights
3) may have better ramp action
4) while the upper PF is clear there is still a big blind spot due to the ball lock mechanism
5) somewhat the upper PF (many upper PF feel meh). I don’t mind upper PF per say like Tspp and Woz but as much seem like I’m fine without upper PF and get enough jollies with simple design like IM, Tron, AFM etc,,
6) they didn’t strip out that much from the pro mainly the upper PF
But I prefer the premium artwork.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:
Everyone laments that Stern doesn't put enough engineering/ toys in their games (minus Batman'66) but then buys the further stripped down version 'because it's not THAT bad'.
I love everything I've seen of the new Black Knight so far but there is no denying the Pro does look bare (as always).
Tron is bare, worked out ok.
I’m not sure you are correct that everyone laments that Stern doesn’t put enough toys on their pro. I never complain about that. I do lament that Stern took away PF sopports from the pro pins for a long time and took away a $4 spinner from Metallica for example but I don’t complain about Met not having hammer or TWD not having moving ramp and crossbow. Often I don’t give a darn about those upper level toys. I mean hammer or crossbow may be ok but I’m perfectly fine without them.
Quoted from DS_Nadine:
I was not saying bare equals bad.
Heck I play a lot of Maiden and there's no real toy to speak of in it.
But still i'd wanna go for the "full experience" and long for the late 90's mechs quality.
If I'd have the money to buy an BKSoR LE,... I wouldn't know if I'd buy it next to a MMR.
Full interactive castle or LED animated flames on a castle painted backpanel?
I find MM with castle and trolls to be ok game in that the shots may take a backseat to the toys.
Your results may vary.
Every pin has only so much room for shots and it’s possible for toys to take up real estate from the shots.
plus the pro has a spinner to the left lane shot (premium has a drop target) and the ramp one the pro looks cool not sure I like the ramp feeding the upper PF. Will be about the rules for me if I buy the game.
watching BK2 really looks cool with all the lights and music, the upper PF takes up a lot of the game I never played it before.
Quoted from MRG:
The blue nub of death will be black soon with enough plays.
The nub gives the designer more room for shots. a post with a rubber would be to big and make the shot too tight. I heard this from Gomez at Expo.
Agree but the question is why blue and not black or redish?
If that’s for BK gonna be nice, can make up for the Stern BOM cheapness. If it’s something like D&D pinball game that’s exactly what I like.
Lock mechanism looks cool, watched the teaser video a bunch looks like an under the lock shot feeds a up U curve to the upper lock area.
You did count correctly and the upper PF (premium) is the only way to gain extra shots (loops etc).
I have a large collection so I can be OK with some of this and some of that. I have TNA that has 2 orbits one scoop and one lane of drop targets so 4 shots that are not stand up targets. I do really love TNA but if I was on a desert island I would not pick TNA or for a very small collection. DI or ST yes but not TNA.
I am not saying BK SoR has too few shots but you do bring up a good point. Left most shot on the pro is a spinner to a up kicker (wish it could have been another ramp (for example) but I'm just a Joe Schmoe and Steve Ritchie has been designing pins since I was a little kid. Just think ramps are smoother and don't get log jam like if you hit one after the other might get blocked by fist ball that could be distressing.
I do wonder if this was a premium pin first and foremost and they said let's take out 1/3 of the shots and make it a pro.
I really don't know because I don't know how much I would love the upper PF or if it was just meh. If this was like AcDc where the full game was the same (sans lower PF) I would be more ok saying let's get the pro. I really didn't order the LE because I don't know anything about the upper PF.
Will I like the pro (I have a good collection of pro type pins) but I am not sure if it'll play better or worse with the upper PF.
Stay tuned as they like to say.
I really think this pin will be fine with the pro and that multiball you will have a blast. I think in Multiball the lack of shots won't be a big issue. I think the shield loops to another up kicker so that three ways to get to the right ramp return.
I don't want to piss on anyone's dream theme etc. but this is the most impressive (to me) game Stern has done and I have not seen the actual gameplay so my opinion is subject to change. But I am super excited about this pin more than anything in a long time. Guess it goes back to me bing a D&D geek and also the music is so great. what I've heard anyway. I have not played any of the older BK games so it's not that kind of nostalgia but just the theme, sound, art and reading the rules just ticks all the boxes. I'm selling my STLE (which I like a lot but not my dream pin by any means) to have my spot (and so my wife won't kill me) for BK (or possibly Wonka) but looking more like BK at the moment because of the D&D vibe (Litch Lord etc.).
waiting for the dedflip stream
ps this is a pin that all three options have a place and I ***Love*** the the pro will still have color changing inserts, full knight toy and nice led back wall. I realize that the upper PF was sacrifice but to me the knight toy was not sacrificed and the Leds so they have kept a lot of premium type features in the pro.
pro (may play faster and cheaper)
premium (middle price with most the features of LE better art maybe?)
LE (maybe better art can't decide and some cool feature not found on premium like speakers, and back glass)
Quoted from newtoit:
I wasnt addressing you with that comment. BKSOR is undeniably badass looking. Ill take the risk/gamble on it. And ill watch the stream tonight to gauge if i made a good bet. I couldnt risk the chance of not getting an LE.
I agree great initial looks, theme and sound but the pin needs a good follow through (code, lights, scoring etc,). I think Steve Ritchie has more clout / passion than some other designers. Also this is really his baby in that it’s the third BK pin or him.
I don’t want to say anything bad about Borg since I love his pins owning 4 of his pins. But sometimes I get the feeling he doesn’t care what the theme is, just give him a topic and he’ll have a pin up and flipping. Munster, Gotg, Aerosmith, Kiss some pins like Munsters I just don’t get a feel for. I mean sure it’s got Munsters art and call outs but there is not really anything that sets it apart from half a dozen other Borg puns nothing that screams Munsters to me.
I don’t know Tim Sexton but he’s a top player hopefully that will translate to him knowing a lot of pins what is good rules, what is fun not make it some kind of video game RPG like world of Warcraft. That’s fine to have some rpg elements but it needs to be pinabll first and foremost. The throwback mode sounds like fun.
I said several times the music sounds great. Can’t believe the talent they got on this pin sound, art, design. The code is unknown but hope for the best.
Quoted from gliebig:
Hopefully it's no multiplier fest coded game.
I do too to not over the top but just enough.
I have STLE think ST code is its biggest weakness, it seems like many times the scoring is very flat overall. I know can double the PF with warp ramp or combo shots double the points of that shot but further combos don’t add anything more than double. But the double PF shots that you work so hard to achieve don’t really add that much they don’t quadruple on combo shot 2x + 2x combo they just make the shots behave like combo shots. So there is not a lot of big points except grinding the medals and then maybe time the PF doubler to when the medals add up. And I think the medal count is really static not like when you get pints by doing a shot during the gameplay.
Quoted from rcbrown316:
I ordered a premium the other day and I am going to try to avoid watching the dedflip stream so I can draw my own conclusions.
Quoted from tilted81:
Watch it on mute. Then you can do both
Good point. I didn’t order and want to watch the dead flip for more information like rules etc.
I understand the not wanting to know aspect, mean don’t read a video game guide because that’ll just solve the game for you takes the fun away. But to me Pinball is different because knowing what to do is separate from actually doing it. I know Potc Stern or Tron like the back of my hand but still enjoy trying to complete the goals.
I’ll need to see/play a lot before I buy because I’m selling a pin to make room.
But I do appreciate the newness factor. I sold STLE 2 years ago bought it back just now. It’s still great but it’s not *new* with the joy of playing it for the first times.
if you'd like to see the old time mode was at 46 minutes on stream.
I think the pro may be the way to go with this pin, not sure the upper PF is worth all that much to me.
Looks very fun except looks like you can play with one flipper and use the left to hold extra balls.
I wish the leftmost shot was a ramp instead of VUK.
how does the left orbit work on the premium? Didn't watch all that much of the premium, but does the ball go up on the launch or on a left orbit shot?
Got to play the pro on location. Was super loud room with music playing overhead which sucks so was hardly able to hear anything. I liked the gameplay a lot, while it doesn’t have two ramps (which I would have preferred) it play was very fun.
What makes the pro a great option for me is the full color inserts and he back wall fire effect.
Someone I was playing with got to retro mode which was cool. I
didn’t get far and was usually in the low few million
The magna-save is one concern about the pin. During my play and watching others play was not able to see a successful use of the magna-save either it was not working correctly or we were unable to activate in time.
Does anyone have any video of this feature in action?
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