I have the LE, a friend has the pro and it is also available to me at a location I visit often. When I first played the pro (before I got my LE) I felt it was overly simple and actually had second thoughts about getting one at home. The simplicity of the pro has improved a bit with the new code, but the upper playfield adds a lot to the strategy: Take a risky shot on the lower playfield or get the ball to the upper playfield at get credit for it at the standup target? Build the value of the mode on the upper playfield while risking running out of time? An extra MB which can be stacked, extra skill shot with the standup and ball lock on the upper playfield. Even when not in a mode the upper loop shot is satisfying and worth decent points that build with each time it is made in succession. So I'd say you get <95% of the experience with pro, maybe around 60-70%. Some say they prefer the pro, but you could get the pro experience on the prem/LE just by never going for anything on the upper playfield and I can't imagine anyone playing it like that. After playing the LE most of the time, now when I play the pro I really do feel like a lot of the game is missing.

The shaker does not go off when you hit the knight target but they have been adding more shaker events with each version of the code so it could still be possible.

If the lightning bolt in front of the BK is lit (ie. In a mode) the shaker vibrates when you hit the shot.
But it also vibrates for every shot with a lightning bolt lit in modes.

8500

Personally, I would say that BKSoR pro feels complete. That said, the game became an unrelenting battle for the three major targets on the lower playfield. There is simply no reprieve. You get ripped over and over by high speed rejections and the loops. The only break you get is the 1.5 seconds it takes for the flail ramp to return down that wire which the prem and LE don't have. It is basically the same as the prem and LE if you were to never nudge or use your upper flipper. Also the shooter lane becomes faster as it can turn into a quick loop when you hold the left flipper for the super skillshot.

On the prem and LE I feel like the high speed battles on that upper playfield give you a whole new dynamic. I've had some insane runs up there where I'm basically cheering after finally locking or loosing the ball. Certainly code could make it better, but even left as is I feel like there is something special with that tiny playfield.

I think both games are very well done. If you want to save some money, you will absolutely have fun on the pro. If you are on the fence, I think the upper playfield is worth the prem price and will most likely hold its value.

This is entirely my opinion, and I'm not trying to step on other people's reviews. The haters can go back to complaining that the skeletons aren't bony enough .

I am a big fan of the upper playfield. I was unsure, but I think its really fun!

Yeah, thats why I prefer the Pro.

Thanks for posting your opinion. One must be brave these days to come out and say the upper pf on BKSoR is better than no upper pf. Now that you’re out, be proud! I think you hit the nail on the head why the pro feels different. You spend most if not all your time in the center of the lower pf, rarely venturing to the top end, so it feels like one is playing on 3/4 of a playfield. Many of the lit shots on the bottom playfield are dangerous and tend to bounce, fly and drain. The shots to and on the upper playfield are safe and won’t end in instant death and feel like you found missing real estate. The more time you spend on the upper pf the longer your game. I spend tons of time traveling to the upper pf and shooting the catapult to start the multiball or shooting the left and right loops to build multipliers. The four center shots should be targeted with extreme caution.

I have the LE, and find the upper playfield challenges great. I am sure the pro is an excellent choice as well.
However, once you experience the game play with the LE/ Premium, it would definitely be missed.

I totally understand that. Total Nuclear is like that for me so I didn’t want to have two games which are similar in that way. That said, I like it a lot and there is a ton to love with the pro version.

I didn’t get any responses in the club forum so I am going to try the same post here:

After I put the upper playfield back on, I feel like I get a lot of rejects off the flail ramp. Before it seemed like it was butter smooth. I verified the flap is correct and the everything is lined up perfectly. How does everyone else’s work?

Do people find that shot needs to be pretty perfect in order to crest the loop?

I don't know what the ramp flap situation is with this ramp in particular but I know with normal ramp flaps that have wood screws you don't want to tighten them all the way as it creates a dip that steals momentum. Once again don't know how this works with the upper PF but make ssue your ramp flap is as smooth an angle as possible while mating the entirety of the front surface. It can make a big difference.

That's my best guess but somebody with a prem/le help this dude out.

LOL, thanks for the request to help me out . The "flap" I am talking about is actually at the very back of the ramp. It connects to the scoop/turnaround so that the ball can roll as smooth as possible. As far as I can tell, there is only one way to attach this to the backboard. I don't think you could screw it up unless you somehow bent that flap or pinched it. The scoop/turnaround thing has only millimeters of play. It is screwed into t-nuts so I know that it is not misplaced in any way. The backboard also has very clear nuts which it screws into. I can't see any potential for that to have been assembled incorrectly.

My current theory is that it is just a hard shot sometimes. It has to be hit pretty clean. Maybe what I thought I saw before disassembly was misleading and I didn't really play it enough to know.

I have a theory.

I've played my LE a ton for the last four weeks (and love it). Over the course of a long game it becomes harder and harder to make the ramp shot to the point of never making it with the right flipper. Then when I open the door and touch the lower flipper coils they are extremely hot.

I believe that they are fading in power as the coils overheat. I replaced the right lower coil with a Pinball Life 090-5020-2ot coil and clipped the diode. https://www.pinballlife.com/lotr-special-flipper-coil-090-5020-2ot.html

I now can make the ramp from the right flipper through a sequential series of games.

Now we just need plastic protectors for the overall plastic set to offset the slightly higher frequency of airballs.

-Nate

This is really interesting! I was looking to see if Stern offered coil adjustments, but unfortunately they do not. I can echo that I typically see the same behavior.

So, I have found out that BKSOR prem/LE plays extremely long for better players in stock configuration. In league last night we had a 4 player game last 1hr 5 m. The scores were 75m, 76m, 522m, and 1.006 billion. Our rules allow 1 extra ball to be played if earned. This is a brand new machine on location with a liberal tilt. This pin is fun. We just need to toughen it up a bit.

Just put in the .94 code and they are ruining what is my fav game with terrible Stern call outs. I know I'm probably alone in this and a lot of u love that which is fine but damn it keep the game cool, please stop with the bad attempts at humour its just rotten. I think I'm going back to .93 not much else changed from what I can see.

Do pinball browser and overwrite the callouts you dont like with the ones you do. I'm waiting for somebody to redo the entire dialogue for the spinner skeleton guy.

Sounds like a lot of effort. For now like Met and TWD and others I just attenuated the call outs to a barely can hear it status and turned the music up. Much better.

my unboxing video, although there is a gap in the middle where I go get dinner but cool disco music

Been playing a lot of BKSoR LE and have one complaint about the current code which ruins the enjoyment of the game -> mode he!! I have played 200+ games and haven’t completed a major mode yet - wtf? I don’t get why the current rules mandate you complete 3 levels of a mode before the mode is finished and the wheel insert lights. It is fine that you stay in the mode between balls. It is too hard to complete 3 levels ... Toooooo Haaarrd! Stern please change.... One way the levels could work that would be a win/win with the world is

1) continue carrying over incomplete modes between balls. That is the easy part.

2) award the wheel insert after completing level 1 of three major modes. Game then exits mode level 1 and that mode must be restarted to try level 2 and a chance to win a knight letter. Game then exits mode level 2 and that mode must be restarted to try level 3 and a super bonus and extra ball. This would remove the log jam of not being able to complete modes and reduce major frustration.

This adds more strategery to the game -> select level 1’s of all modes in bid to complete the circle. Or repeated select one major mode in bid to complete level 3 to earn an extra ball and big bonus points. TIM SEXTON please consider. Otherwise the game is a gem because of the prem/le layout and game play. It is currently undiscovered because of the code, and with the right refinements this game will sing. It is pretty close and this might push things over the top where we want them. Game is currently around 35ish based on a few rankings, needing a few hundred more people to weigh in before went know where it will settle on Pinside 100. If code is perfected, game might sit in the top 20. It would garner my twippy vote for game of the year. If code is not significantly changed from the last update, it might head towards the 50 spot.

Free advice ?? Just Do it -> Stern.

At least consider doing this as an owner/operator adjustment setting.

Wait I'm confused I have a pro and if I complete a mode it's done. I don't have to complete it three times. Mine is set to factory defaults on the latest code 0.94 if I recall correctly. Perhaps your settings are at hard? Maybe a difference between pro and le?

Had a premium delivered yesterday. What’s with the interlock killing everything except the screen when you open the coindoor? Entire pf goes dark. Can’t do a switch or light test with the door open. First spike game with an interlock switch?

No actually not. It a weird thing Stern started doing. The first Spike(1) games had it. WWE and Kiss. However Stern removed them starting wit GOT and GB. Moving to Spike(2) BM66, AS, SW, GOTG, DP, Munsters didn't have one. However it must have been in the last few weeks. Stern started adding interlock switches again. I know of a few BM66 and now BKSOR owners their games so have on. Its just weird... Oh no wait its Stern...

New code update this weekend?

Friday is rarely the release day, lately.

My pro does not have an interlock

Hope you like waiting until Monday.

Stern Pinball will be revealing new Black Knight code and a new physical game enhancement only for the Premium and Limited Edition models this Monday, June 24th.

This exciting code update contains a new RANSOM WIZARD MODE, featuring sounds, speech and display effects from Black Knight 2000!

In addition, there is a new LAST CHANCE feature, allowing players to continue the action of their gaming experience with an enhanced SUPER CATAPULT MULTIBALL!

This code is exclusively for the Premium and Limited Edition models. New Pro code is coming soon.

In addition to this code update, Stern will reveal a new physical game enhancement that will extend the upper playfield gameplay experience.

To highlight the action, Stern will be hosting a live stream event with Dead Flip Pinball Streaming Jack Danger and the game team to take you through these new features! Live stream starts at 5pm CST on Monday, June 24th at - https://www.twitch.tv/deadflip

Whats the source for this information.

Stern Insider email.

My source was Facebook

Physical enhancement? Are they hinting at a add on you gotta purchase?

Physical game enhancement -> bigger playfield posts in the lower rubber ring area on the upper playfield causing the ball to bounce instead of allowing the ball to drain away from the upper flipper

That would be my guess.....

I will say this, and especially the Premium/LE: This game is growing on me, it's going from a "not-for-me" level to a "This-might-be-a-great-game-when-the-code-is-done" level!

The upper playfield is a masterpiece. You actually have to nudge to keep the ball alive. Those that doubt this game need to play more, learn the rules and learn to nudge. I literally can't stop playing this game. Accomplishing the big jackpots on three knights and catapult is not easy. This game is so addicting.

I bet they add some sort of lamp mateix for the upper pf. Somethjng to tell you when to hit the light lock target. Ideally add a spinner or something but I imagine itll be like the funhouse mirror telling you what features are lit (ie light lock)

I love the game so far. My only criticism is the samples. I suppose when I played it they turned the heckling down.

Just think the samples fall flat somehow. Fix that and Voila. No offense to SR.

Other than that a couple tweaks here and there and Instant classic.

Only change I'm making now is moving it next to Medieval Madness and GOTG

IMG_2827 (resized).jpeg

Physical enhancement? They giving it a boob job?

Bet they add a rubber like i said weeks ago

Man, this is gonna be one hell of a Deadflip steam!

I dont think they would make a big deal about adding a rubber. Thatd probably be done via tech service bulletin. Im probably right, they are going to add a lamp or lamp matrix display to tell you when you need to hit the light lock target and other available shots.

Pretty much applies to every new game.

Play Better!

You must have something set to difficult or something. I have been able to finish 4 modes in a single game. Haven't finished the 5th one yet though.

Mud bog is hitting 5 hydras twice in a row
Molten is 2 rounds of the 7 shots
Burning Sands IS three sets of three shots
Deep freeze is killing 5 or 6 Lych lords by hitting them twice, the yellow inserts are extra points
Hell Hand is 4 sets of the alternating side shots.

I don't see any of these as completing three levels, they just have their own sequence.
Your progress is kept if you drain or if you run out of time and have to restart, so this makes it very achievable.

If you can't finish one of these in three balls, you need a new hobby!

There is no need for the extra rubber and definitely not an enhancement. I would not like the game to never drain from up above. The drain time on the upper playfield is just right now - similar to Whitewater. To me that extra rubber mod is akin to drilling a fourth hole at the outlanes to allow an extra liberal post setting.

As soon as I heard this was coming out I was super excited, had my name down for an LE and was offered one by our local distributor. I own both the original BK and BK2K.

However, after seeing the Dead Flip stream, I was really disappointed. The theme had been altered from the originals in my view, the Dark Knight had become some sort of futuristic horse riding warrior and you had to battle sandworms!?? Did anyone else feel this way?

I cancelled my order and haven't looked back until I saw the code update announcement this morning. Not trying to start a fight, just generally curious if others were so put off by the change.

Where did you get those castles? Looks great, if the game came out like that they'd sell like crazy

Not at all in agreement. This game is awesome. According to some, you will be able to get an LE for like 2k in a few weeks so maybe just keep waiting. In all seriousness, I'm in love with this game. Great them, well done, shots for days, brutal as hell. Try it, learn it, and you will like it.