Black Knight Sword of Rage (LE)
Stern, 2019
Black Knight Sword of Rage (Premium)
Stern, 2019
Black Knight Sword of Rage (Pro)
Stern, 2019The only thing that will kill the game is if Stern forces Tim to move on to another game. They seem to have stopped ignoring games after release, but who knows with Stern. They are still in the process of earning back respect. Evidence looks good for this one. Munsters, not so much.
Quoted from x-rug-x:I got some quality time with a Pro over the weekend, and while I think this is a great game for being on location, I don't think I could have this in my house. There's too much repetition with the normal background music (for me). This is obviously something that could change with code updates, so I'll be keeping an eye on it.
Anyone else bothered by the music, or am I just officially old?
I said the exact same thing not only is the music repetitive but the game itself is as well. There isn't much to do in the game and to me it appears they didn't even try to make the game look like you're getting your money worth. The pro like the LE has one main toy and two plastic cut outs. I think this game will be judged harshly over time, and lose a ton of value. But I agree if you're going with this game grab the pro because that is the game that will be used in tournaments. At MGC they were selling pros for only $5,100 and that was the time to buy one.
I do agree that if they're going to improve this game they will need to add code to add more songs, or music and I hope they do. The mod industry hopefully can come up with some idea's to improve the look of the game because it needs it badly. I think the game could have used something we've seen before in attack from mars or Scared Stiff, where the monsters you see on screen could be shot at inside the game. Oh well.
Looking forward to Jurassic World.
Quoted from Asael:I am still on the fence to buy a premium, but STERN is way too quiet about this game. There is still no information about in what direction this game will go. Will we see more modes, more monsters in it or is what it has now, all we will get and they just do a few bugfixes and this is the game? Everything I saw so far from this game is good but I just don't think it has enough content. In my opinion games like Iron Maiden are perfect with the content they have. Shortgoal gameplay and long goals to keep it interesting. If I count the modes and MBs in other STERN games like Iron Maiden or SW and than look what BK has so far. I can't pull the trigger and buy it now. I know that some STERN games took along time until the code was in a good shape but most times they talked in interviews or through insiders about the features that would come. So normaly I was relative early sure about buying a game. Is it just my feeling or is the hype about this game already over before it realy started? With Iron Maiden, Keith was everywhere: tilforum, streams, podcasts, interviews.....talking about the features what we will see in future updates and I knew excactly what game I will get when I ordered it. What is the direction they are trying to go with this game, will it be shallow but addictive like in the 80' just with LCD and LEDs. Or will it also have modern rules and enough content like other games now have?
I kind of worry Maiden was a one off as Keith had the game developed years before he went to Stern and then Keith and new team threw everything into coding the game.
Will Stern give him the same time next game?
I am definitely waiting on this game to see how the code actually develops.
Code will be fleshed out a bit, although I hope that the structure of it doesn't change too much. I love that there isn't a bunch of meaningless multiballs in the game as is, makes the multiball it does have valuable and worth getting. Not to mention it gives you another multiball when you finish "knight". I also love how clearly communicated the rules of the game are through the inserts and lcd screen. Less cluttered bullshit and unnecessarily obtuse objectives and scoring exploits. You know what you have to do with every shot, but good luck completing it. Easily my favorite game that Stern has made since Iron Man. So much fun to shoot. Always ready to go at it again.
Quoted from drfrightner:At MGC they were selling pros for only $5,100 and that was the time to buy one..
Forgive me for asking since I haven't been buying NIB Sterns in a while, but what happened to the minimum sale price that Stern was placing on all of their dealers, ie, everyone had to pay $5600 or they would lose their franchise?
Serious question. If people can now get lower prices, I'd like to know (so I can consider buying again). PM me if this is a secret and "not publicly known". 
It's there but not disclosed. Guess the minimum is $5100 for a BKSOR PRO in USA then. As usual you have to shop around to figure out the minimum.
Quoted from Cobray:Forgive me for asking since I haven't been buying NIB Sterns in a while, but what happened to the minimum sale price that Stern was placing on all of their dealers, ie, everyone had to pay $5600 or they would lose their franchise?
Serious question. If people can now get lower prices, I'd like to know (so I can consider buying again). PM me if this is a secret and "not publicly known".
Quoted from luvthatapex2:It's there but not disclosed. Guess the minimum is $5100 for a BKSOR PRO in USA then. As usual you have to shop around to figure out the minimum.
No. Maybe for a show special or IFPA discount, but you won’t see a New In Box BKSOR for $5100 anywhere. Pretty much $5600 is the floor where they are at new from distributors.
Quoted from LOTR_breath:There is really no guessing. There WILL be substantially more code for BKSOR. There has only been one small update, taking the game from .90 to .91. Tim has talked about this on podcasts and on the Burger King stream. This is Tim's first game and he knows the importance of this game and needing to prove himself. He has experience working with Keith on IMDN and being a tournament player, he knows what level of depth is needed and expected from this game. I believe he will deliver!
What makes you think this is a deep game or going to be a deep game? I've seen nothing that would lead me to that conclusion. You sure as hell HOPE there will be more updates until they get it to 1.0 (whatever that means to Stern). But, this seems more like a throw-back game, similar to Munsters, in that, it is on the more simple side (not that that's a bad thing necessarily).
I am rooting for Tim, but management seems to set the time the devs can work on a project. Hopefully, Tim will bring it together and have time to polish things up.
Quoted from Cobray:Forgive me for asking since I haven't been buying NIB Sterns in a while, but what happened to the minimum sale price that Stern was placing on all of their dealers, ie, everyone had to pay $5600 or they would lose their franchise?
Serious question. If people can now get lower prices, I'd like to know (so I can consider buying again). PM me if this is a secret and "not publicly known".
The reason for the lower prices are because those we're "show" games and were available to the public to play for the weekend which is why there was a discount. Most of these games have around 500 plays by the time you bring them home.
Quoted from Asael:I am still on the fence to buy a premium, but STERN is way too quiet about this game. There is still no information about in what direction this game will go. Will we see more modes, more monsters in it or is what it has now, all we will get and they just do a few bugfixes and this is the game? Everything I saw so far from this game is good but I just don't think it has enough content. In my opinion games like Iron Maiden are perfect with the content they have. Shortgoal gameplay and long goals to keep it interesting. If I count the modes and MBs in other STERN games like Iron Maiden or SW and than look what BK has so far. I can't pull the trigger and buy it now. I know that some STERN games took along time until the code was in a good shape but most times they talked in interviews or through insiders about the features that would come. So normaly I was relative early sure about buying a game. Is it just my feeling or is the hype about this game already over before it realy started? With Iron Maiden, Keith was everywhere: tilforum, streams, podcasts, interviews.....talking about the features what we will see in future updates and I knew excactly what game I will get when I ordered it. What is the direction they are trying to go with this game, will it be shallow but addictive like in the 80' just with LCD and LEDs. Or will it also have modern rules and enough content like other games now have?
I’m hoping this is another Iron Man type of game. Not particularly deep, but fast and furious for those quick games and wanting to hit the start button over and over.
Quoted from Asael:I am still on the fence to buy a premium, but STERN is way too quiet about this game. There is still no information about in what direction this game will go. Will we see more modes, more monsters in it or is what it has now, all we will get and they just do a few bugfixes and this is the game? Everything I saw so far from this game is good but I just don't think it has enough content. In my opinion games like Iron Maiden are perfect with the content they have. Shortgoal gameplay and long goals to keep it interesting. If I count the modes and MBs in other STERN games like Iron Maiden or SW and than look what BK has so far. I can't pull the trigger and buy it now. I know that some STERN games took along time until the code was in a good shape but most times they talked in interviews or through insiders about the features that would come. So normaly I was relative early sure about buying a game. Is it just my feeling or is the hype about this game already over before it realy started? With Iron Maiden, Keith was everywhere: tilforum, streams, podcasts, interviews.....talking about the features what we will see in future updates and I knew excactly what game I will get when I ordered it. What is the direction they are trying to go with this game, will it be shallow but addictive like in the 80' just with LCD and LEDs. Or will it also have modern rules and enough content like other games now have?
Buy a different game with mature code and enjoy that while you keep an eye on this for 6 months to a year to see if it develops. Stern cannot be trusted to complete their games with the "ship first and figure it out later" strategy they've employed to keep their lines at capacity.
Has Stern figured out why the shields keep busting loose? Game to be renamed Black Knight - Shield of Rage.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Has Stern figured out why the shields keep busting loose? Game to be renamed Black Knight - Shield of Rage.
Maybe because he's holding his shield at an odd angle like the sword.
Quoted from newtoit:Everyone will soon realize that this is going to be the absolute best game Stern ever put out
People realize that with every new release!
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Has Stern figured out why the shields keep busting loose? Game to be renamed Black Knight - Shield of Rage.
I may have missed some post with 63 pages but this is the first I have heard of the sheld issue I went through the threads pics not a single one shows the issue
Quoted from JY64:I may have missed some post with 63 pages but this is the first I have heard of the sheld issue I went through the threads pics not a single one shows the issue
i have seen one maybe two posts (maybe on FB?) but it doesnt seem wide spread...
I had the pleasure of visiting Brooklyn today, so had to make a short visit to ever so awesome sunshine laundromat. They have an excellent lineup, including the new BK so had to play it a few times.
It's definitely fast and furious, lots of outland drains and ball moved so fast that not once did I manage to activate the magna save on time. Felt pretty one sided too, lots of hitting the lock to activate modes and lock the ball. Needs more call outside and hopefully the code as it progresses adds some variety to it. I liked the graphics and the modes were different enough although followed the same 'hit this then that's approach.
I'm hoping upper playfield adds to the game, my initial impression on the pro was fun but questionable lastability. Still, hats off for stern for doing this
Quoted from JY64:I may have missed some post with 63 pages but this is the first I have heard of the sheld issue I went through the threads pics not a single one shows the issue
a dude in another thread had some pics of his game and another guy chimed in with same complaint of shield coming loose. I thought it was a thing, but they end up suggesting adding locktite and seem satisfied it will hold up.
Quoted from newtoit:Anyone want to share how much they paid for and LE or Premium with tax and shipping?
I think the floor on the Premiums is like $7200 or $7300, but you might get under that by having perks like shaker motor, etc thrown in for free.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:a dude in another thread had some pics of his game and another guy chimed in with same complaint of shield coming loose. I thought it was a thing, but they end up suggesting adding locktite and seem satisfied it will hold up.
I’ve got 500 games in on my pro and I’ve had no shield issues, for what anecdotal evidence you may care about.
Quoted from Yokimato:I’ve got 500 games in on my pro and I’ve had no shield issues, for what anecdotal evidence you may care about.
Since Im not familiar with everyone:
Was that in a private home or on location? (Either is impressive but if you played these all by yourself I'd like to read an extensive review. :O )
Quoted from Yokimato:I’ve got 500 games in on my pro and I’ve had no shield issues, for what anecdotal evidence you may care about.
I just live streamed my pro on Twitch, about 100 games, shield seems fine on mine for what it's worth.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:I kind of worry Maiden was a one off as Keith had the game developed years before he went to Stern and then Keith and new team threw everything into coding the game.
Will Stern give him the same time next game?
I am definitely waiting on this game to see how the code actually develops.
Really you never know, it's the Stern code lottery. One game will receive great code support with not only deep but also unique code that offers variety while the next game can be the complete opposite. One game can have its code completed within a year the next 2+ years. Best to wait and see like you said.
I'm just wondering, where will BK land in this graph if it would be placed in it?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-is-considered-a-deep-game/page/3#post-235601
Quoted from Cobray:Forgive me for asking since I haven't been buying NIB Sterns in a while, but what happened to the minimum sale price that Stern was placing on all of their dealers, ie, everyone had to pay $5600 or they would lose their franchise?
Serious question. If people can now get lower prices, I'd like to know (so I can consider buying again). PM me if this is a secret and "not publicly known".
At Midwest Gaming Classic they were selling the game for $5100 in fact all their games were discounted. For one all of them where getting used all weekend, there has to be a discount for that, there is no shipping, and you're picking them up and leaving with them.
I don't know this for a fact but I would bet at the Chicago Pinball show they do the same thing.
But I don't know never went.
They did not sell their Premiums and probably for good reason... almost every single one broke over and over again. Apparently the locking mech on the upper playfield had a lot of issues. The pros worked fine.
Quoted from CafeOne:Anyone having a problem with the ball flying off the wireform ?? Our back leg levelers are all the way up, was thinking a few washers to increase the pitch near the end of the wireform may help.
Check ramp to make sure it is smooth - a fair few Maiden ramps had bumps on them.
Manually move ball down ramp until the end, checking if there is anything on ramp to cause an air ball.
Not that impressed with the quality of the ones I have seen unfortunately.
Quoted from CafeOne:Anyone having a problem with the ball flying off the wireform ?? Our back leg levelers are all the way up, was thinking a few washers to increase the pitch near the end of the wireform may help.
Back leg levelers all the way up...this could be your problem. Try setting the pitch up correctly and see if that helps.
Not saying that's for sure the case here, and totally not meaning to single you out, but I just have laugh every time I hear someone sets their game up grossly out of spec and then complains that things do not work correctly. Of course, I like a fast game too and generally pitch a bit high, but you have to be conscious of the fact that they were designed for 6.5. Higher will sometimes have repercussions.
Quoted from newtoit:How do you determune the pitch? How are you measuring it what is 6.5?
6.5 degrees should be measured on the playfield. Measure it with an angle finder or digital level. This is a standard part of setting up a machine, the same as leveling side-to-side. Most machines have a bubble level in the shooter lane that can be used, but they are rarely accurate. Modern machines (since the SS era at least) are designed for 6.5 degree pitch. Most people prefer a bit higher to increase speed. However, in some cases that can cause ill effects, especially the further away from 6.5 you go. Locks may not work correctly, ball flow changes (ie orbit returns hitting slings instead of flippers), saucers may bounce out more, airballs can increase, etc, etc. It also actually makes the game easier in some cases by minimizing side-to-side action and making the ball easier to trap. Not all machines will show any problems, but some can be very sensitive to pitch. Just something to try whenever something just isn't working right. Always go back to the design intent and tweak from there!
Quoted from taz:I’m hoping this is another Iron Man type of game. Not particularly deep, but fast and furious for those quick games and wanting to hit the start button over and over
It is exactly that. Over and over, fast and furious fun. Just with better art, sound and animations. It's most similar to Iron Man. We have them both in our bar.
Quoted from Jediturtle:6.5 degrees should be measured on the playfield. Measure it with an angle finder or digital level. This is a standard part of setting up a machine, the same as leveling side-to-side. Most machines have a bubble level in the shooter lane that can be used, but they are rarely accurate. Modern machines (since the SS era at least) are designed for 6.5 degree pitch. Most people prefer a bit higher to increase speed. However, in some cases that can cause ill effects, especially the further away from 6.5 you go. Locks may not work correctly, ball flow changes (ie orbit returns hitting slings instead of flippers), saucers may bounce out more, airballs can increase, etc, etc. It also actually makes the game easier in some cases by minimizing side-to-side action and making the ball easier to trap. Not all machines will show any problems, but some can be very sensitive to pitch. Just something to try whenever something just isn't working right. Always go back to the design intent and tweak from there!
Good advice. Sometimes even reducing the pitch a hair under stock helps play too on certain games. You can get too aggressive on pitch. 6.5 or so is what most are designed for.
Quoted from NoQuarters:Good advice. Sometimes even reducing the pitch a hair under stock helps play too on certain games. You can get too aggressive on pitch. 6.5 or so is what most are designed for.
Yeah...the flipside of that is also true. Some games just play better steeper. Deadpool is a good example where in general the Katana ramp flows better steeper. I think even George Gomez commented that it likes 7 deg best. Nothing wrong with adjusting to what you enjoy best, but when problems crop up, that's one thing to check that some might not consider.
Quoted from PM_Jeremy:Premium version - recorded at the Midwest Gaming Classic - Enjoy
Jeremy-Pinball Mayhem
Thank's for sharing this video because it's the first one making me consider a premium. To take advantage of the top playfield I should really get better at nudging.
Quoted from PM_Jeremy:Premium version - recorded at the Midwest Gaming Classic - Enjoy
Jeremy-Pinball Mayhem
somebody stole the TILT bob...
(i too like these slide saves)
Quoted from digitaldocc:Thank's for sharing this video because it's the first one making me consider a premium. To take advantage of the top playfield I should really get better at nudging.
the perfect opposite for me... i really have to play/test it hardly to ever think having it home...
Hey guys, finished my live stream yesterday of the Pro model, it's here to watch for those curious:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/415954987
Best I could do was around 30 million for top score, very tough game but I'm not that great at pinball either.
Quoted from Tmezel:Getting our pro today!
Got mine yesterday.... OMG, it seems soooo flat compared to other games (due to space left for upper-pf). Not a complaint, this game is fast-n-fun.
However, I'm confident y'all are gonna be cooking up all sorts of things for this game....I see a lot of potential...and vertical real-estate.
Quoted from PersonX99:Got mine yesterday.... OMG, it seems soooo flat compared to other games (due to space left for upper-pf). Not a complaint, this game is fast-n-fun.
However, I'm confident y'all are gonna be cooking up all sorts of things for this game....I see a lot of potential...and vertical real-estate.
I know what you mean. Didn't notice it in the streams or pics really, but seeing it for the first time at MGC it definitely appears "flat". The ramp is super shallow and there isn't much else going vertical. But once you pull that plunger, that all fades away. That ramp might be shallow, but it's very satisfying to hit! That is one of the reasons I lean a bit towards the pro...the ramp flow is awesome coming right back to the flipper rather than the upper pf. I am definitely looking forward to see what the modding community comes up with to fill all that vertical space...
Quoted from Jediturtle:I know what you mean. Didn't notice it in the streams or pics really, but seeing it for the first time at MGC it definitely appears "flat". The ramp is super shallow and there isn't much else going vertical. But once you pull that plunger, that all fades away. That ramp might be shallow, but it's very satisfying to hit! That is one of the reasons I lean a bit towards the pro...the ramp flow is awesome coming right back to the flipper rather than the upper pf. I am definitely looking forward to see what the modding community comes up with to fill all that vertical space...
Absolutely.... we are so used to "tall" ramps that their absence shocks us. We quickly realize they are always needed. I really like that how that left shot which is usually the orbit, isn't. The inner shot it the orbit.... It's a great way to mix it up. As for mods...I've already got a pile waiting to be installed. The mirror blades are gonna be great in this game because you are going to see a lot of them. What I REALLY want to see, is a 3-D push-out of the castle around the fire lights in the back panel. My 3D printing design skills aren't up to that level yet.....but I am now motivated.
Quoted from EricHadley:Where are the LE’s???
I was told shipping early May.
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