Great....now I'm stuck here for a half hour listening to an album I've heard countless times before (but not for years). S.O.D. Speak English Or Die: The greatest, short attention span, thrash album ever.!?

Asking a question you already know the answer to stir the pot much?

The Vengeance don't just rattle...
It has a drop target, magnet and backkicker all in one shot so I'd call it massively interactive.
(And it feels great to shoot.)

Hitting the center target of the BK toy feels... I want to know.

Today I listened to the new "Rapsody of fire" album and the whole time hearing the lyrics I had to think about Black Knight.....
"Eyes that shine in the spell of the night. Smart and dark he was born just to fight. Fear and pain that remains when it's cold. Arch-rival king of the mighty untold. With the shield on my left and the shiny gold sword. With the power of magic to fight the warlord....."
I can't wait to play this game and fight him.

double post

Am I super slow? Did anyone else figure out before now that the subtitle to the new Black Knight game is essentially Steve Ritchie's initials? Black Knight:SR.

Steve... of house Ritchie.... LOL

Trying to decide between DP and BKSoR and got a chance to play both side by side yesterday. Because they were on location, I wasn't able to hear them well so can only go off look and feel.

BK was absolutely brutal. High adrenaline just trying to stay alive and make smart shots. Lots and lots of left lane drains and sdtm drains and.lots.of bricks as I tried to learn the geometry. Took me awhile to finally get the shield shot lined up and get multiball going. I couldn't hear the taunts nor the music well, so I suspect this would have made for a better time had I been able to hear. Overall the game felt simplistic and the main struggle was simply to stay alive.

DP played great as usual and I felt I did significantly better, granted I has played a few games on it when it first game out so this wasn't my first time. DP felt a lot deeper but still fast paced. Couldn't hear music or callouts either, so maybe this is a wash compared to BK.

I have BK ordered but am now tempted to swap for DP and wait for BK to mature. I feel DP will be more enjoyable for non pinheads to play as there will be less instadrains and its critical my wife enjoys it too. However, the flip side is BK was an adrenaline rollercoaster...just not sure if that will turn into frustration long term or if it means it will keep me coming back for more.

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Does anyone know the release date for the premium yet?

I haven't played BKSoR yet, but I can tell you that our DP has had daily use since the day I brought it home several months ago. In fact, I love playing it even more now than I did when I first bought it. The code updates made what started off as a really good game truly great, IMO. I think v1.0 is nearly perfect.

It was also important that my wife enjoy the game, and she absolutely loves it. I always smile when I'm in my office working and I hear her fire up a game (and that's often). When we have family and friends over everyone crowds around DP and can't wait to play. It's simple enough that anyone can enjoy it, but deep enough to keep regular players from getting bored.

EDIT: Oh yeah, you mentioned that you didn't really get to hear the game. I think DP's original music is some of the best I've heard on a pinball machine. There are a ton of callouts, and apart from a few cheesy ones they are almost all excellent. The sound effects are also badass. I love some of the classic sounds from games like Defender and High Speed. The Mechsuit Multiball SFX, in particular, are insanely cool.

I was going to order BK blind, but I've decided to hold off on that based on the footage I've seen and the early reviews. I'll need to play it before I decide.

Good luck with your choice!

Totally agree with this. You can’t go wrong with DP. The more I play, the more I enjoy it!
BK does peak my interest though, so I’ll make the decision once I get some time on one. I usually buy premium on my pins, but really considering the pro on this one.

I consider the original Black Knight (1980) with two levels, 4 banks of hurry-up drops, a horseshoe, 2 magna saves with actual side buttons, and a spinner shot -- the 5th best game, EVER designed, so I had my hopes up high for the third installment... My first aspect to consider in a pin review is "how does it shoot" -- the physics -- the layout (disregarding art, sound, rules, programming, etc) on a first take...

I played the Pro at Free Gold Watch, on it's second day there. It was set up well.

I didn't have fun playing it -- I felt discouraged by the wall-of-five-posts layout. I bricked shots that insta-drained. I even had an airball fly over the flippers.

I did learn something though -- this game design taught me that saving a bricked shot is part of the fun of pinball, and when that aspect is removed from a game -- the game is much less fun. So I've added a new idea to my review template, "brick saveability".

Think back to 1981 -- and how you generally want to avoid the middle area of Silverball Mania -- only, add one more post, and add two flat targets, and remove the two safe shots on the outside -- that's BK3. There are no safe shots. I've never seen a game take that stubborn of a design approach, and frankly, I don't think it's good for pinball.

I can imagine some expert players enjoying this -- but some novices will play 1 ball and walk away. I reluctantly finished out my 3 balls. I played another 4-5 hours of pinball on games like dp and iron maiden with far more interesting layouts, and returned to try again, only to have the same frustrating experience.

-mof

Piqued. Your interest is piqued.

This was more or less my takeaway after about 20 games on a Pro. It's like the Dark Souls of pinball.

I didn't really have a lot of fun exactly, but it was still satisfying...and I kept putting money in because I wanted to push through and figure out the geometry.

I expect great players to love this game, especially in a competitive environment, because it demands high-level play.

That just makes it even better.

better again. Damn I can't wait.

The game reminds of the old school arcade game Robotron by Williams, where it's very tough but something about it keeps you coming back.

I really can't wait to see all the new modes and foes waiting to be released into the game

Agreed. The ball busters have always been my favorite. BSD, IM, FG, TWD, etc. The meaner the better.

I hope there will be more modes and foes. But has anybody informations about, if we realy get more content or are this only hopes and speculations? Has someone from STERN talked about what they have planed for the next updates?

I'm definitely setting up my BKSOR next to BSD.Destiny it seems.

I yell the most angry things while playing my TWD! Keeps me pushing the start button though

A healthy mix is always best, but I do lean toward the ball busters. I could see placing a Hobbit next to my IM. IM would get played way more, but a nice long adventure on Hobbit would be nice now and then. Lower numbered collections should be mostly ball busters though. Ball busting for the win!

I had a chance to go play BKSoR Pro today. I agree the Pro machine stands firmly on its own. I'm not sure what the upper playfield on the Premium/LE will add to the experience but I thought the Pro played great. Yeah - it's not as deep or involved as recent games but I honestly think that's what pinball needs. Remember, everyone says IJ4 sucks but it earned like crazy. Why? Approachable theme and simple rules to make things happen. BKSoR rules are more advanced thank IJ4 - but I think there are similarities that will make BKSoR a great location game.

It was impossible to hear anything where I was at, so I can't comment on how the music and callouts would have affected my impression (I now know how the guys playing during the DeadFlip reveal felt). The machine was set up well and missed shots were punishing to control. I found myself almost immediately physically handling the machine more than any other recent game I can thinking of. I loved it.

As others have said, it made me want to replay to try and get a little further each time a game ended. I never had a moment where I wanted to walk away. I played for about an hour straight and definitely want to see more of it - especially when I can hear it.

I was going to go in on an LE but like others here I'm not so sure now. I need to play a Premium to see if the upper PF really matters or not. Otherwise - I'm on the Pro bandwagon with everyone else.

I think it says tons about Steve's design when the "basic" game feels really right.

Any one know about when the topper will be released?

36 months or so.

My biggest hope is for at least one more multiball. One main multi in the pro just isn't enough these days (edit: two I guess...forgot about retro KNIGHT multi...which is AWESOME...but my point remains). I would love for them to incorporate Catapult Multi into the pro....even if it is just something like every 10 ramp shots = 1 lock (or every 10 left "orbit" VUK shots? You could easily look at the VUK as being a catapult...).

Otherwise maybe multiple levels for each enemy area, with the second (third?) battle in each area being a multi? I find it interesting that the inserts are labeled for the area (Burning Sands, Deep Freeze, etc) rather than named for the enemy you battle there (Sandworm, Lich Lords, etc). I am hoping that means more battles are planned for each area rather than just one enemy. That would be a great place to bring more multiball modes, depth, etc into the game.

I really fell in love with this one at MGC, as did my 11 year old daughter and even my wife. My daughter clearly preferred it over Wonka, Monster Bash, AFM, etc. I was surprised, but it was one of her highlights of the show. Mine too.

While you get pissy about my answer, we still do not have a Star Wars topper...and it has been 22 months.

Man, respectfully, I couldn't disagree more. We have it on location and people FLOOD money into it. It's the total package that draws the new player, probably owing a lot to the big interactive toy in the center. Art/Sound/Lightshow/animations. Definitely our best earning new game of the last 3-4 years. And my favorite to play as well. I don't think that the game is nearly as brutal as Star Wars was, it only punishes bad shots. You put some more games on it and it will teach you to play better. I think that it's really a return to form for the king.

Not everyone, I loved it.

My apologies if this is has been covered already...

I was MGC and my initial reaction to the Pro was that it seemed like the playfield was sort of empty and the Premium was where I was going to have put my money. After playing both however, I am back to leaning towards the Pro. But this was at MGC where you couldn't really hear the games.

I got some quality time with a Pro over the weekend, and while I think this is a great game for being on location, I don't think I could have this in my house. There's too much repetition with the normal background music (for me). This is obviously something that could change with code updates, so I'll be keeping an eye on it.

Anyone else bothered by the music, or am I just officially old?

I played a handful of games on it Saturday night and came to this exact same opinion. I don't think that as it sits, that it would last very long in my smaller collection. I'm still eager to play the premium and see how the upper playfield adds to it. Also, the code is still early, so lets see where this goes in six months.

I had a Pro reserved for order early. When I heard the music on the stream I canceled. I too played it at MGC and the play was decent, but you sure wouldn't know how it would sound in your home. The repetition in such short repeating clips I think would get on my nerves. Wasn't willing to take the plunge on one just yet and usually I'm an early adopter.

Early May shipping for my LE.

DP premium is the way to go right now. Code has made it a fantastic game and the shots can be challenging, but doable. (shnikt shot still gives me fits). BK was ok for a few games, but I'd wait to see how it matures. A guy in our league beat the game twice in one play...exceptional player , but still.

You forgot SW Pro

That's a bummer. I can see how if you don't like metal, then you won't like this pin. But each mode has its own unique music that goes with it. I am a metalhead, so I greatly appreciate the music package and don't find it repetitive at all. Repetitive in the sense that it is all heavy, chugging, and fast metal I suppose and someone who isn't a fan of the genre would find that because of that, it all sounds the same to their ears.

But for me, I love starting each monster fight and getting a new theme song to play throughout the mode, (my favorite being the Lich Lords--SO BADASS). The music in this game is far better than the limited (but good music) in BK2K. THAT was way more repetitive IMO.

Ball busters and turds are two different types of games.

Yes, Star Wars is a ball buster. Freddy:A Nightmare on Elm Street is a turd.

I figured I'd get those downvotes in this thread, but I can't lie. I played the crap out of Star wars, and it was a massive disappointment to me. Glad you guys like it!

To me as well. I bought it and sold it after 2 weeks (wanted to sell it after 3 days but everyone told me it get's better).

Still wouldn't call it a turd tough, it's just a game I happen to hate.

And that is the difference right there. You can appreciate that you don't like a particular game but don't need to crap on it. You obviously played it and worked out, for what ever reason, that it wasn't a keeper or an enjoyable game for you.

Don’t take it personally, just means some people (including me) disagree with your opinion.

I am still on the fence to buy a premium, but STERN is way too quiet about this game. There is still no information about in what direction this game will go. Will we see more modes, more monsters in it or is what it has now, all we will get and they just do a few bugfixes and this is the game? Everything I saw so far from this game is good but I just don't think it has enough content. In my opinion games like Iron Maiden are perfect with the content they have. Shortgoal gameplay and long goals to keep it interesting. If I count the modes and MBs in other STERN games like Iron Maiden or SW and than look what BK has so far. I can't pull the trigger and buy it now. I know that some STERN games took along time until the code was in a good shape but most times they talked in interviews or through insiders about the features that would come. So normaly I was relative early sure about buying a game. Is it just my feeling or is the hype about this game already over before it realy started? With Iron Maiden, Keith was everywhere: tilforum, streams, podcasts, interviews.....talking about the features what we will see in future updates and I knew excactly what game I will get when I ordered it. What is the direction they are trying to go with this game, will it be shallow but addictive like in the 80' just with LCD and LEDs. Or will it also have modern rules and enough content like other games now have?

You're just too good of a pinballer.

Looking at gameplay I think I will never "beat" that game as it is now.

Exactly why you should wait this one out and see how it proceeds, unless you love the game as is, don't expect to see more content until it happens.

I feel like they will add more, this is Tim's first game so I am sure its a bit of a learning curve. But guess we shall see.

There is really no guessing. There WILL be substantially more code for BKSOR. There has only been one small update, taking the game from .90 to .91. Tim has talked about this on podcasts and on the Burger King stream. This is Tim's first game and he knows the importance of this game and needing to prove himself. He has experience working with Keith on IMDN and being a tournament player, he knows what level of depth is needed and expected from this game. I believe he will deliver!