I already said I would bet you $1000 dollars put your money up brother! We'll go to any mall in America people don't know Iron Maiden music but Iron Maiden fans. People who're not fans of U2 still know their songs. I already admitted they've made a lot of money like Kiss thru licensing. Their logo is a brand all by itself, people who don't even listen to their music might have their t-shirts. They've been very clever at marketing but their music hasn't resonated chart topping hits. Metallica broke thru with thrash metal, and had hits and hits played during every sporting event in America. I dont think I've ever heard an Iron Maiden song during a football game... but Queen, Metallica yup. This is getting way off the point... Iron Maiden pinball is beloved by pinball collectors. We're not doubting that.

On location because Iron Maiden is NOT ACDC, Metallica, or the soon to release Guns N Roses doesn't make money. Ghostbusters a game that has been trashed sideways on Pinside, makes TONS of money. Because the mass majority probably 90% of every dollar that goes into a pinball game, comes from someone who doesn't not own, or have a desire to own a pinball game in their house. Just casual players out with friends. That is your market!

Iron Maiden is very popular in Europe and many of their songs have charted there, Stern made this game because they sell around the World not just in the USA. Believe it or not but kylie minogue is bigger than Madonna in Europe she tours there but doesn't tour here.

Queen when Freddy was around mostly toured Europe and South America because that is where they had their biggest fan base.

Queen later became bigger than ever thanks to movies like Waynes World where people got exposed to them for the first time. Now Queen is bigger than ever in the USA. Iron Maiden is one of the most unique bands ever because they sold pretty good despite never getting played on the radio really. Good for them. They have die hard fans who follow them like religion. They've sold 3 or 4 albums that reached a million, but just because the band said they sold 100 million ahhh no way in hell do I believe that. Their most popular album ever World wide was just under 2 million so how did they get to 100 million... maybe because this band has made like 40 albums I don't know. LOL

Look man all I'm saying to you is this... Black Knight on location won't do well, TNA doesn't do well, and Iron Maiden doesn't do well either not in the USA

The people NOT on this website want to play Ghostbusters, ACDC, Deadpool, Star Wars, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc.

That is all I'm saying.

50,000 word salad nobody is reading followed by...

Am I the only one that kinda cracked up at that?

Not trying to keep this argument going but this is just so wrong.... Iron Maiden has sold over 100 million albums in their career without a single hint of radio play, that is a huge testament to their fan base. Their music was NEVER written to be radio friendly... they have a 13 minute song about a poem written in 1797.... one of their biggest songs is about the charge of the light brigade in the Crimean War of 1854 and that is one of their few songs that actually got radio play! Their music is virtuoso metal with historical themes, not exactly the type of stuff that tops the charts but that does not mean their popularity is low, far from it! The bottom line is that Maiden always had a HUGE following that sells out stadiums across the globe. Their fans are among the most devoted in all of music!

If you poll that same 100 people about what their favorite Metallica song is 90 will say "Enter Sandman" because it got radio play and they could not probably name another outside of maybe Fuel, those are not Metallica fans or the type who would buy a Metallica pin. The other 10 are the ones who are Metallica fans and they DEFINITELY can name multiple Maiden tracks as well. Maiden is the one metal band (besides Sabbath) that transcends all the genres of metal and is appreciated by the vast majority of metal fans. Since metal and pinball fans tend to be middle-aged white guys the Maiden theme is perfect for a pinball machine. Maiden is consistently one of the top earners at my local venue (which happens to be a metal-themed pizza spot with 13 pins in an upscale neighborhood) but it may not earn well in Missouri, doesn't mean the game has not been a smashing success for Stern and operators.

Also LOL at Maiden's main fan base being European. That slayed me. They are the biggest band in South America.

Am I the only one that kinda cracked up at that?

No

I think on message boards, no one can ever truly understand what someone is or isn't saying. But we actually agree 110%!

Iron Maiden has an amazing and very loyal fan base, and as I said and you said without radio play, without some big theme anthem hit like Enter Sandman, these guys are filthy rich.

Kiss is the USA version of Iron Maiden for Europe. Neither band really has mainstream hits, they created super loyal fan bases there is no doubt there.

This has nothing to do with my point... that on location what matters is the THEME of the game. Iron Maiden as dedicated as their fan base is doesn't expand out of that box. Even the guy who loves Nirvana probably still likes Billy Jean or knows the song. People who love Marvel movies probably still have seen Ghostbusters at some point. The same person who only likes Celine Dion still knows ACDC, heck any stadium in American plays the same three bands over and over again: QUEEN - METALLICA - ACDC and maybe some Quiet Riot, or Guns N Roses.

How can you escape those bands you can't, you hear this in movies, tv shows, stadiums during football games.

Iron Maiden is NOT played on any of those things. Bottom line I'm only saying the THEME of the pinball game is what matters on location. In your home its what you like what you want. There is a difference.

Hey, at least you got to play it before you bought one.

Someone said I don't offer facts so here are some facts for you.

Queen - ACDC - Metallica - Nirvana - Michael Jackson - KISS and Iron Maiden all came prior to the Youtube age. So no matter 70's 80's or 90's they're all pre-youtube days. Meaning their accounts got created long after their success had all been well established. Even during the start of Youtube it wasn't as big as it is today.

Maroon 5 is successful today so their songs have strong following on Youtube much more so than bands who are overall historically bigger... Maroon 5 has 25 million subscribers and over 12 billion views on their videos. We can all agree they're good but they're not legends like in their lane Madonna who has 2 million followers and 2.5 billion views on her videos. Had Madonna done it all over again TODAY she'd probably have 50 million followers and 20 billion views see the point?

So lets compare bands/groups

Iron Maiden has 1 million followers good but only 312 million views on their songs. To the point the band is bigger than their music.

Oddly enough Kiss another band without hit songs has only 295 million views on their songs. Nearly the same.

Now lets look at ACDC another band who created a Youtube page way later like Iron Maiden.

ACDC 3.3 BILLION views on their music and 4.7 million subscribers. Metallica 5 million subscribers and 2.4 billion views. Queen 9.3 million subscribers 4.9 BILLION views. Micheal Jackson 13 million subscribers and 6.7 BILLION views... if his music was TODAY he'd have over 100 million subscribers and who knows 100 billion views. Nirvana 4.1 million subscribers and 2.4 billion views. I could make a list like this for a decade...

Iron Maiden marketing is bigger than their music, people don't know their music, they never had a hit anthem song. Hence when you put an Iron Maiden pinball on location because most people do not know their music or the band, they will move over to Ghostbusters at least in the USA.

Pinball games make more money on location when the THEME is known to them! This is the ONLY point I'm making. These are facts not opinions.

I had an Iron Maiden great game, no one played it, no one knows the band. I sold the game.

Black Knight on location will not do well overall on location, next to Ghostbusters, Deadpool, or even Monopoly.

But as a game its got a few things going for it but the PRO is the way to GO.

Ok, now you are just giving us too much to criticize. Quit while you are ahead. The fact that your are trying to claim you are very knowledgeable when it comes to music is negated by most of the crap spewing from your posts. I bet you get down votes from people who dont even make it though you posts. Nobody agrees with you. It happens. Stop crying

FWIW Iron Maiden is consistently a top 3 machine at the location I regularly play at month after month. Usually in the #2 spot behind Star Wars.

And this is in a lineup that includes Guardians, Metallica, Simpsons, AC/DC, JJP Pirates, KISS and Ghostbusters.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal evidence. Even when it comes via your 'FACTS' and 'TRUTH'

That doesn't surprise me - on location you can't really hear the music anyways, so even people who aren't IM fans will play it. Like me and my wife. Because the gameplay is awesome!

The music is loud and proud at this location my friend. And it starts to grow on you the more you play the game. Great music to play pinball to and it really fits the 'feel' of the gameplay.

I'm just going to leave this here for KISS...
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Hey agree to disagree, it's just personal music tastes! Lots of metal bands I'm a fan of, just IM not for me. I'm glad it does well for you on location!

Yeah Kiss had several mega-hits, that argument is silly.

Re: YouTube subscribers - Maiden was never a music video band, they barely released any throughout their career. Their fan base is less likely to stream youtube than the other bands you mentioned.

So I have had a chance to put about 10 games on a pro on location. This game is excellent. The shots are great, the Black Knight toy is great and interactive, and the music isn't as repetitive as I thought it would be. I have to say that this is a really solid pin by Stern.

Looks like Iron Maiden has 7 songs that charted in the Top 50 Modern Rock Songs chart and a ton more if you look at the Billboard 200 charts.

Not too shabby for a European metal band that nobody recognizes. LOL!

There's barely a sporting event you can go to and not hear "Rock and Roll All Nite" or "Detroit Rock City". Ever heard "Beth"? Thought so.

KISS has had 2 top ten hits, and more abroad (ok, it ain't the Beatles, but still). Maiden music isn't radio-friendly, was never meant to be. But both bands have toured for 40 years and sold over a hundred million albums worldwide.

Both of these bands got their popularity the old fashioned way, playing their asses off for years in front of live audiences, MTV and radio be damned.

I don't get your "if you like Nirvana, you probably know Billy Jean" logic.....No, the average person can't name a Maiden song, but the average person doesn't like hard rock/metal - any of THEM probably can, or at the very least recognize the band.

Know who else has never had a Top Ten hit? The Boston Symphony Orchestra. They must suck...

Why are you so invested in this argument - we get it you don't like IMDN pinball and music and you know a lot about the music industry
Awseome - u da man
Who cares - move one

PM sent

BTW, walked up to the new Black Knight game at the MGC show this weekend and went limp. "Let's see - which straight shot should I go for?"

Played 2 games all weekend. I'm good for life.

How dare you sir to come into a Black Knight thread and talk about the Black Knight pinball machine!!! Moderators....Please!!!

Short and to the point

Well I played like 8 games last night and was rock hard the entire time, just throbbing with excitement!!! So I beg to differ.

NO WE CAN'T.

The only people who like Maroon 5 are lonely women.

Can we ignore the guy who doesn't know how to rate a game now?

I always prefer those "curvy" shots too!

Aren't you also friends with the game programmer?

When compared with Wonka, BKSoR needs more stuff. Stern should be thinking what else can we put in the premium and le models. It’s not much investment for Stern, but it would add value.

Lower playfield should have kickback added to left drain instead of ball save.

Upper playfield needs a 3 bank of timed drops added. Otherwise add two more standup targets to increase things to hit. Also might be able to add WAR lane switches over the ones below, allowing another way to boost playfield multiplier. Finally, add additional path for ball to travel between playfields.

Cabinet needs a bell added inside that is programmed to award bonus time multiball to the winner, allowing him some victory laps and a chance to run up his final score.

This is a terrible idea. One of the worst features in pinball history.

I don't think you'll see a return of "bonus time" anytime soon.

First and third items could be issued as repair kits and installed by Owner for games already shipping. Prem don’t come out til June so they have still time to change item two before upper playfields are needed.

So having bonus time programmed into BKSoR to implement the same feature from BK (one of two pins this game is based and the one that happens to be 40 years old) would be worse than our current status quo of having no bonus time? I’ll have to say no. Not having bonus time is definitely not better. As with the original BK, the feature could be disabled. Think of this as having the ultimate easter egg ever programmed into a game, and who doesn’t like easter eggs?

Once implemented along with adding a kickback assembly for left outlane, they will have added $20 to the BOM. Money well spent!

yeah, I have a maiden and AC/DC at the same spot. Maiden out earns AC/DC since it came in. It's not ever in the top 3, but it doesn't do to bad either.
Think it just depends on the location.

I think it would be cool to have 'throwback' features of both the original BK and BK2000. The timed 30 second multiball bonus would be cool to add to the software. It would be easy to program and there could be a setting in the software to turn it off if needed.

From what I have seen so far this game is awesome. But I still have doubts if it will have enough content. But the inserts on the wheel are generic named after areas and not after Bossfights. "Wicked Cavern", "Mud Bog", "Molten Fire".......Stern with this game is not bound to a license, right? So they could add as many content as they want to it? So if they would want they could add a lot more monster fights in these Areas? If every area would have different levels let's say 3 and different monsters to fight with different tactics and weaknesses you have to find out. And in every area would be one big end fight to win something that could be helpfull in your endfight against the BK. This game could be so epic.

They just need to add mode shots to the loop on the upper playfield to make me happy. Since they said there would be a mode in LE that's not in pro, that's probably going to happen.

Why should stern waste time and resources on a dumb feature (bonus time) nobody wants? It wouldn’t be free, it would cost time and money and deliver zero benefits for stern or their consumers.

I guess for the same reason you think $20 added to BOM is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Hahahahaha!

I really have never heard of Maroon 5. What kind of music do they play? I'm 51 years old and I still go to Slayer concerts.

One serious question. Is the word theme when referring to a pinball machine supposed to be in all capitals now?

Also, I am really looking forward to a black knight premium. This game will be nostalgic for me. I would really like to know what people are thinking

It amazes me how much time that some people spend who don’t want a particular pinball machine for whatever reason bitching and complaining I guess trying to convince others they shouldn’t wanted either . Life is to short for this waste
of time . LE ordered , it’s a hobby, buy what you like.

LE paid for. Im rock hard for all things Black Knight

I disagree nobody wants it. I tend to believe Stern didn’t think of it but now that they have can decide whether to invest time to link one more thing between a 40 yr and 30 yr and present day themed game. That you could turn feature off isn’t good enough for you? Others shouldn’t have the feature and Stern shouldn’t spend the resources in your opinion, right? I disagree.

Is $20 to BOM inconsequential if it enhances the value of the game? I understand all the engineering costs would be expended by Stern. So yes is I say Stern should add More to the prem/le game, including some ideas for upper playfield and the reason is to make a great game a tiny bit better. What if Stern allows $500 more stuff to be added in the current prem/le? Can you feel the excitement from the room at suggestions people have for small things that Stern can do to possibly make the game better? #bk3ksavethebell

Just shredded the pro at Sunshine Laundromat... it shoots like a champion. Not the brick monster people claim it to be, it’s way easier than say AC/DC for example.

It’s defintely a bit shockingly baron when you first step up, but the code and music and art and layout make you forget about that pretty quickly. The orbits F’ing rule and the Knight toy is pretty dang cool.

Ramp is super satisfying to hit, this is a lower playfield leaning game for sure and much like GOT I think a lot of people are gonna dig the pro version. Another hit in the books for Stern, I’ll take fun over toys any day of the week.

anyone know if stonehedge in Akron has black knight yet?

Was in on a premium...now i just don't know..I think im going to sit back and wait...pro, prem??I just enjoy the game of pinball...Great hobby, brings family and friends together no matter what game.. Steve R has always been a fav of mine..Im just not sure if stern let him do what he wanted to do on this 3rd Bk..I guess we will never know....PINN ON ENJOY THE RIDE...

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@drfrightner...........I googled Maroon 5. I find it offensive that you took it upon yourself to make a blanket statement that all the members of this forum agree that Maroon 5 are good. Speaking for myself only, as I have no right to speak for anyone else here, I think they suck. And I generally like any music except for country.

Do you like to drink wine in the bathtub? Do you cut the eyes out of pictures of your ex? Do you like to cut yourself while watching Twilight?
That kind of music.

Thanks to the pinball browser and a sinister character I'm listening to the Music & Callouts of BKSoR on pinball browser.

Browsing trough the callouts I think and hope there's way more to come from the "beige" knight and lots of humor.

So there's:
"Superduperloopa Jackot" (lol)
"I can learn to be good/ let's have a brew and talk etc." (beige knight)
"It's just a flesh wound" (monty python)
doing funny voices aaaand...
Of course "Agaaaain!", "Play Better" and "Fight".

Awesome!

If they really put all this in (there's callouts relating to the story development as well) this is a must-buy for me.

Yes, dunno, and I'd never watch Twilight... ok, with the exeption of Twilight Sparkle! (Brony)