(Topic ID: 239218)

Black Knight Sword of Rage!!! - Sterns next machine!!!


By Blacksun

3 months ago



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#2501 3 months ago
Quoted from CraigC:

the black knight speach needs to be amped up.

I feel like they need to be re-edited. Not sure how exactly to quantify it, but they don't sound like the black knight. Like, the wrong computer effects were used or something. It just sounds ... different. Too tinny maybe. I'm not sure. But you get what I mean, Right?

#2502 3 months ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

Glad I'm not the the only one with these thoughts after watching the stream yesterday. Sat down in high anticipation, but I walked away underwhelmed.....

I had the same reaction to Munsters but not till after I played it. I was excited when revealed, and and after Deadflip stream, but thats where it ended for me. I love Black Knight, I like BK2000 but it had to grow on me, I couldnt stand the music at first but it ended up growing on me, looking forward to playing some BKSOR.

#2503 3 months ago
Quoted from thirdedition:

I don't know why "virtual kickback" is getting parroted. Is it actually called that anywhere in the game? I only recall seeing it called ball save, or the LCD saying ball saved.
I personally don't mind, I find kickbacks annoying to fix when they break, but to each there own.

It's also being referred to as a cost cutting method, like this 'feature' is something Stern came up with to save money.

I guess they should have called it Mnemonic Recovery, maybe it would have been better received.

#2504 3 months ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

I feel like they need to be re-edited. Not sure how exactly to quantify it, but they don't sound like the black knight. Like, the wrong computer effects were used or something. It just sounds ... different. Too tinny maybe. I'm not sure. But you get what I mean, Right?

I agree 100%. In BK2K they are in your face. In the stream they seemed almost like afterthoughts. Might be just because its a stream though? Hopefully?

#2505 3 months ago
Quoted from crlush:

I had the same reaction to Munsters but not till after I played it. I was excited when revealed, and and after Deadflip stream, but thats where it ended for me. I love Black Knight, I like BK2000 but it had to grow on me, I couldnt stand the music at first but it ended up growing on me, looking forward to playing some BKSOR.

Oh, I'm looking forward to playing it as well. To me this was the first Stern reveal stream that has not helped in building the excitement within me. All the rest in the last 2-3 years have. Don't get me wrong, I know Steve, Tim, and the rest of Stern have worked hard on this and I love their enthusiasm shown in the stream.

The Pro reveal was OK, about what I expected, and was really dying to see the Premium/LE gameplay with the upper playfield. Then they swapped over to the LE....that upper playfield NEEDS something. Right now it's a flipper, a 3 ball mechanical lock, and a loop switch. It needs a pop bumper, or a slingshot, or a target bank, or inline drop targets.....something. Heck, in a lot of cases lately Stern's later code additions has saved the day (TWD, BM66, GOTG, DP), but unfortunately there is nothing to write code for on the upper playfield!

Yet, I'm still hopeful that 3-6 months from now this turns into a great pin. BK was such an iconic pin during my childhood and holds a special place in my pin memories when it first came out.....

-1
#2506 3 months ago

Game looks pretty awesome to me. Animations, music, and light show really got my attention. Some of the best by Stern imio. Not really feeling the whole battling disgusting monsters but I can go with it. It seems like they should of picked dragons or other knights instead for more of a medieval fantasy feel but whatever. Gameplay overall seems fun and that is what's important. Not sure about the upper pf, though. Love the extra flipper but doesn't look like there is much going on up there. Players were constantly shoot the ball up there to flail a shot or two. Pro looked to be exactly the same except the upper pf. No thoughts of buying one until I can get some decent playtime. Definitely look forward to playing one, though.

#2507 3 months ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

Not really feeling the whole battling disgusting monsters but I can go with it. It seems like they should of picked dragons or other knights instead for more of a medieval fantasy feel but whatever.

How boring it would be if it was a medieval times pin...lol Fighting knights and dragons....come on....

The gross monsters are AWESOME. The hand is my favorite one. What a weird and awesome creature to battle.

We need more gross humor in pinball. I wish they would come out with a totally gross pin some day. Just over the top gore or nastiness. Like TWD minus the zombie theme.

I thought the game looked ok. Definitely feels like a throw back with updated features. Not a bad thing, just not for everyone as usual. I can see why they pushed it ahead of WIWO (willy)

#2508 3 months ago

For those of you complaining that its heavily a right flipper game, keep in mind a lot of those shots are backhandable and probably easier to shoot that way. So.......both lower flippers are important.

#2509 3 months ago

I hate to say this, but I think somebody is about to get some chocolate in Steve’s BKSoR peanut butter...

Although this machine is a good sequel to BK2K, it’s not much more than that. The Flail is an interesting take on a bash toy, and the shield is well integrated into the theme, but where is this Sword of Rage you speak of? (Rhetorical Question) Not anywhere on the playfield- would this not confuse inexperienced players? The “build up sword energy for maximum scoring potential” aspect is ok, relevant, maybe, but a bit anti-climatic. The Flail was an appropriate toy for this title... Because up against stiffer competition, it looks like Stern and Steve are “flailing” to stay relevant. Fix the music. We shall see how this plays out after MGC.

#2510 3 months ago

The hand needs a secret code/family mode where it flips you the bird.

Love the hand and crazy monsters. Would be cool to see more futuristic stuff like seen on Bk2k.

The rollover lanes would be cool on both the upper and lower Playfield. Maybe win on top war on bottom. Top could have a sideways eddy switch to detect the ball.

Will be great to play it this weekend.

10
#2511 3 months ago

Careful.

This is a new Stern game.

We won’t really know how good or bad this title will be for quite some time.

Once games arrive we will see threads regarding software bugs & design flaws. A shitfest will soon follow, games up for sale, etc.

Later on software updates & mech kits will be sent out. Maybe the love fest restarts, another run or two built, etc.

I’m interested in several Sterns but waiting to see how things pan out. You probably should too. Or at least learn how to relax your anus if rushing in now.

#2512 3 months ago

Gameplay reveal was kind of a flop, IMO. Music got annoying after only a few minutes, upper playfield definitely not worth the extra cabbage, bash toy is boring, animations leave a lot to be desired.

This leaves the door WIDE open for JJP and the Wonka reveal on Friday. Can't wait!

#2513 3 months ago
Quoted from dirtbag66:

Gameplay reveal was kind of a flop, IMO. Music got annoying after only a few minutes, upper playfield definitely not worth the extra cabbage, bash toy is boring, animations leave a lot to be desired.
This leaves the door WIDE open for JJP and the Wonka reveal on Friday. Can't wait!

I guess I was watching a different stream, the animations looked great and the interactive toy was fun and really neat.

I agree that the upper playfield didn't do much for me, but this game looks like fun and I'm excited to play it. Since it is a Stern, I won't have to wait long.

#2514 3 months ago

I think first knight completion is retro black knight (easier cause already free letters spotted)
I think second knight completion is retro black knight 2000 mode... "aaaaa aaaaaa aaaaaaa...."

But what would you need for the black castle wizard mode (it's on the instruction card)? That I'm most curious about.

#2515 3 months ago
Quoted from Aurich:

I'm not shy about being critical of LCD graphics, but I honestly don't know what people expect either.

I expect advanced subsurface scattering models to give the proper illusion of skin. This is clearly amateur hour, what year it is, 2009?

#2516 3 months ago
Quoted from PW79:

Or at learn how to relax your anus if rushing in now.

Is this so it hurts less as Stern dry humps us with “cost savings”? I am not seeing the value in this title above going out and finding a nicer BK2k and saving 3 grand. Please prove me wrong, because I wish I was.

#2517 3 months ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

How boring it would be if it was a medieval times pin...lol Fighting knights and dragons....come on....
The gross monsters are AWESOME. The hand is my favorite one. What a weird and awesome creature to battle.
We need more gross humor in pinball. I wish they would come out with a totally gross pin some day. Just over the top gore or nastiness. Like TWD minus the zombie theme.
I thought the game looked ok. Definitely feels like a throw back with updated features. Not a bad thing, just not for everyone as usual. I can see why they pushed it ahead of WIWO (willy)

I couldn't disagree more. I can see having another horror pin for that but don't get that vibe from past Black Knight games. I'm not into the medieval fantasy stuff at all but that feels more were Black Knight belongs. I think of some sci fi shooter game like Borderlands when I see those monsters. Theme for me really doesn't matter as long as the game does a good job integrating that theme.

#2518 3 months ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

I couldn't disagree more. I can see having another horror pin for that but don't get that vibe from past Black Knight games. I'm not into the medieval fantasy stuff at all but that feels more were Black Knight belongs. I think of some sci fi shooter game like Borderlands when I see those monsters. Theme for me really doesn't matter as long as the game does a good job integrating that theme.

The intro screens are 100% Borderlands, huh??

I was waiting for some witty tagline to pop in under the name!

#2519 3 months ago

Does the pro only have one multiball because it doesn't have the upper playfield ?

#2520 3 months ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

I couldn't disagree more. I can see having another horror pin for that but don't get that vibe from past Black Knight games. I'm not into the medieval fantasy stuff at all but that feels more were Black Knight belongs. I think of some sci fi shooter game like Borderlands when I see those monsters. Theme for me really doesn't matter as long as the game does a good job integrating that theme.

The monsters to me scream D&D and World of Warcraft. I'm not picking up on the horror of scifi vibe that you are getting.

#2521 3 months ago
Quoted from gunstarhero:

The intro screens are 100% Borderlands, huh??
I was waiting for some witty tagline to pop in under the name!

Exactly. Loved playing those games and the intros seemed straight out of those games. First thing I thought of when I saw them. Same look, same style, and same everything. Never played WoW or any of those type of games so no reference to that. I think most agree they look like they belong in a video game. I don't think that is a bad thing but just something I am not used to seeing in a pinball game. Definitely rather see animations like this than random, clunky short clips from a movie or stuff that looks way dated. It would be cool if they could add more monsters at least so you are not seeing the same few over and over.

#2522 3 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

Is this so it hurts less as Stern dry humps us with “cost savings”?

That’s part of it for sure. Also code. QC issues too.

I’m not shitting on the game. Might own one some day. I’ve got a slot ready for a new game but I’m waiting for a title that checks all the boxes. IMO that can’t be done on a day one release.

#2523 3 months ago

"virtual kickback" been a thing for many, many, many years. Like...I can easily trace it back to the Clinton years without even thinking.

It's also known as a "ball save."

Why are we complaining about this now?

#2524 3 months ago
Quoted from Guidotorpedo:

Lmaoooooo at everyone complaining about the music....
Maybe stern should make an over 55 version featuring this?
[quoted image]

I have no problem with the music in BK3 at all...its a nice, modern take on the classic.

However, I'm significantly closer to 30 than 55, and I listen to SD nearly every single day. I also like George Clinton/Parliament/Funkadelic. The 'Stones. STP. Alice 'n Chains. ELO. Beastie Boys. Beatles. Elvis. Snoop Dogg. Merle Haggard. The Clash. Pink Floyd. Dr. Dre. N.W.A. Weezer. The Weather Report. Sinatra. Buddy Holly. ZZ Top. Guns 'N Roses. Jimmy Smith. The list goes on and on and on.

Don't bag on The Dan, man.

#2525 3 months ago
Quoted from thirdedition:

The monsters to me scream D&D and World of Warcraft. I'm not picking up on the horror of scifi vibe that you are getting.

The modes and theme, minus Sandworm, remind me a little of the Lord of the Rings movies and quest to get to that volcano.

#2526 3 months ago
Quoted from attack7:

... but one thing I love about BK2K is the huge buildup to a multiball, where you're possibly left with nothing, and if you get that Jackpot shot your payoff is huge. We didn't see a lot about hurry ups, which is core to previous Black Knights... especially ones that build in value over repeated attempts...

yes but no...
small OT about BK2K, which i'm sad about the gameplay "exploit" : upper PF > right flipper > left ramp... again, and again, and again, and ...
just done this last saturday, in the 2019 Belgian Championship freezone, and must admit, its not funny at all :/

#2527 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

"virtual kickback" been a thing for many, many, many years. Like...I can easily trace it back to the Clinton years without even thinking.
It's also known as a "ball save."
Why are we complaining about this now?

because "kickback" means you have a coil to directly kickback the ball into the PF (and lets admit, its a nice feature)
ball save (which indeed is wroten on the insert) is a simple ball save...

#2528 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

"Why are we complaining about this now?

You new here? lol. When you think about it, it doesn't make sense to have a ball kickback on the left side when there is one already built in on the right side. I know it's not exactly the same but close enough. In the age of cost cutting, I rather see that mech used somewhere else that is more interactive in gameplay.

#2529 3 months ago
Quoted from WackyBrakke:

For those of you complaining that its heavily a right flipper game, keep in mind a lot of those shots are backhandable and probably easier to shoot that way. So.......both lower flippers are important.

the prob is not being a right (or left) flipper game at first step, you must see deeper
the prob is, with this design, if you have a minimun of skill (see my BK2K video just above, or Keith yesterday), you will never lose the ball (well you will lol) !!! easy : upper PF, down to right flipper, and up again (with the left lane/vuk) above...

now, to not have this, its in Tim hands, he must code the game to avoid this giving points if someone plays as it (by forcing the player to absolutly shoot for things on the right side of the PF), else...

edit : (i forgot) there's a target in/to block the left lane, that's already a solution

#2530 3 months ago

I was pretty impressed with the gameplay. Looks like a really fun game! I cant decide if its a "premium or bust" game or if the pro is the way to go. Initially I was in the "premium or bust" camp because, hey, its Black Knight and NEEDS an upper playfield...but does it? Jury is out for me.

I think the music comments are on point. It is too much too soon chugging riffs in your face the minute to hit start. I would be incredible if the music was a little more dynamic and varied to build with the playfield action. Like the music should start slow and soft and build pre-plunge and then start to ramp up as gameplay starts. If you cradle a ball it would be cool to hear the music slow back down temporarily in breaks in the action.

I love Scott Ian and the work hes done here, I just don't think he was given a holistic sound design direction to work with. Not the end of the world if they don't change it but some tweaks would be warranted and shouldn't be to difficult to adjust via code updates.

-4
#2531 3 months ago

The problem with the ball save kickback is the arrow shape of the orange insert with it pointing back towards the playfield... it looks like a kickback insert, but it really is a ball rescue... kind of a visual bait and switch.

I am ok with it because unlit kickback lanes are the spawn of Satan and do not give you a chance to try and shake your ball out of the outlane against a post and rubber, but instead are a speedway for an instant drain when unlit. I have a love hate relationship with kickbacks.

#2532 3 months ago

I'm really thinking Stern purposely releases games with crappy code in order to have two or more sales windows with each game. "Gotta have it" people and ops get it right out of the gate. Then when sales die down a bit, they release new code to drive sales interest again.

#2533 3 months ago

I watched some of this again this morning. At the reveal I felt this was a bit too close to Tenacious D, now I wish it was more. Now it just seems like its trying way to hard to be Metal. This whole style for me works as bit of a laugh, when it's serious like this it's just super cringey. None of this is hard or scary or in any way horror, its just cheesy without humor. I was half expecting the Hand of Hell to give the Sword of Rage a tuggy. I'll still give this a go on location it will be good fun. That being said I need Stern to move away from this area for a while, I've had enough of this old guy hard core.

#2534 3 months ago

I only watched the first 60 minutes of explanation and play due to time. I'll get it all in tonight or over the next couple of days. My initial impression is still hopeful, but not excited. I liked the art and animations. The concept of a D-n-D style knight vs traditional medieval knight is a win for the design team. The playfield layout tips it's hat to the originals just enough, while adding new things as well (the physical knight mainly).

As for play, the game just looked frenetic. I like Steve's philosophy of design with lots of flow and combo focus on his games. But flow doesn't mean loss of control. That was the thought going thru my mind as I watched...these are some great players and they look like they're flailing (no pun intended). The ball was moving so fast, most of the time combos were hard to come by. It looked mostly like shot...brick...wild rebound...shot...brick...wild rebound.

I know I saw only a small portion of the stream so far, but it didn't heighten my enthusiasm. I hope in the second hour, they find their shots and can hook a few together.

#2535 3 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

I am ok with it because unlit kickbacks are like being tied up, masked, bondage style over a saw horse while listening to the leather harness creaking as your sadistic girlfriend puts on her favorite “Life-like, just like Mr. Ed” Strap-On.

Why do so many of your posts involve your sexual fetishes?

#2536 3 months ago
Quoted from sethi_i:

As for play, the game just looked frenetic. I like Steve's philosophy of design with lots of flow and combo focus on his games. But flow doesn't mean loss of control. That was the thought going thru my mind as I watched...these are some great players and they look like they're flailing (no pun intended). The ball was moving so fast, most of the time combos were hard to come by. It looked mostly like shot...brick...wild rebound...shot...brick...wild rebound.
I know I saw only a small portion of the stream so far, but it didn't heighten my enthusiasm. I hope in the second hour, they find their shots and can hook a few together.

This is my concern as well. I am still leaning towards buying a Premium but I will have to put some serious time on one first. If this game is a brick-fest then I am out.
As for the music, I loved it. I thought the animations were more than adequate. The playfield is gorgeous. I understand why people wanted more on the upper playfield but keep in mind that removal has to be done in order to properly clean/wax the entirety of the lower playfield, and since this upper playfield can be easily removed I am OK with it not being the most action packed aspect of the game. I like the 6 ball multi-ball enough to deal with the upper PF.

#2537 3 months ago
Quoted from Graysonsdad:

Why do so many of your posts involve your sexual fetishes?

#2538 3 months ago
Quoted from sethi_i:

I only watched the first 60 minutes of explanation and play due to time. I'll get it all in tonight or over the next couple of days. My initial impression is still hopeful, but not excited. I liked the art and animations. The concept of a D-n-D style knight vs traditional medieval knight is a win for the design team. The playfield layout tips it's hat to the originals just enough, while adding new things as well (the physical knight mainly).
As for play, the game just looked frenetic. I like Steve's philosophy of design with lots of flow and combo focus on his games. But flow doesn't mean loss of control. That was the thought going thru my mind as I watched...these are some great players and they look like they're flailing (no pun intended). The ball was moving so fast, most of the time combos were hard to come by. It looked mostly like shot...brick...wild rebound...shot...brick...wild rebound.
I know I saw only a small portion of the stream so far, but it didn't heighten my enthusiasm. I hope in the second hour, they find their shots and can hook a few together.

Just so you know, this is pretty typical with a brand new pin. Playfield is like glass. Squeeky clean new coils all firing at 100%. Stiff new rubber bands all at their bounciest. It will be lightning fast for a bit. That plus nobody is good at it yet.

#2539 3 months ago
Quoted from Graysonsdad:

Why do so many of your posts involve your sexual fetishes?

Oof.

-15
#2540 3 months ago

Best game ever created. Total package.

#2541 3 months ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

For the people who are maybe feeling letdown a little dont forget that you can still buy a lot of great new games. Munsters is amazimg and several other games that are available as well but Jurrasic World is rumored to be coming and Elvira 3 is definitely coming, so theres still good reason to be excited about pinball.
I don't think BK sucks but i thought it would be better thats for sure. I cant wait to play one. Sometimes they are much more fun once you actually get to play the game.

I wish there were more comments and vibes like this on pinside.

#2542 3 months ago

First impressions (as I obviously will want to play it)

1. Love the theme, art, lights, and layout.
2. Like the animation. As a long time PC gamer, it’s not my total preference, but I recognize the general look they are going for.
3. I like the Pro best! I’m not generally an upper PF fan. No loss for me on the Pro. Loosing the upper PF for the Pro probably allows it to have all of the other main PF features.
4. Metal is not my thing, so the music not so much for me. I have plenty of respect for the talent involved making it. It’s just not my thing.

Congratulations to Steve Ritchie and the whole team. Thanks to Dead Flip for the awesome stream. Pinball releases have come a long way since I first started collecting games in 2010.

Anyone know when the first Pros will be hitting the distros around the country?

#2543 3 months ago

I find it pretty funny how so many of you were initially knocking the Pro and knocking Stern for making it and now you're changing your tunes.

After photo reveal:

"It's not BK without an upper pf."
"Shame on Stern for not putting the upper pf on the Pro. Stern is so f*ing cheap."
"Pro sucks. Looks so stripped. Who is going to buy that?"

After gameplay reveal:

"Pro looks great."
"Upper pf looks lame."
"Pro is the way to go!"

images (resized).jpeg

15
#2544 3 months ago

These animations rock!

Game looks like God of War meets Heavy Metal.

-1
#2545 3 months ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

"virtual kickback" been a thing for many, many, many years. Like...I can easily trace it back to the Clinton years without even thinking.
It's also known as a "ball save."
Why are we complaining about this now?

Only one I can think of offhand is NBAFB. Maybe JM is virtual? With NBAFB, I assumed it was because of the large number of coils required to work the in-the-paint saucers, which are 2 and 3 way.

And yeah, on a $9K game a virtual kickback is pretty chintzy.

#2546 3 months ago
Quoted from Bublehead:

I hate to say this, but I think somebody is about to get some chocolate in Steve’s BKSoR peanut butter...

Although this machine is a good sequel to BK2K, it’s not much more than that. The Flail is an interesting take on a bash toy, and the shield is well integrated into the theme, but where is this Sword of Rage you speak of? (Rhetorical Question) Not anywhere on the playfield- would this not confuse inexperienced players? The “build up sword energy for maximum scoring potential” aspect is ok, relevant, maybe, but a bit anti-climatic. The Flail was an appropriate toy for this title... Because up against stiffer competition, it looks like Stern and Steve are “flailing” to stay relevant. Fix the music. We shall see how this plays out after MGC.

This might be the most ridiculous thing I've read on this site for a while now, well thats not true it happens everyday. Inexperienced players don't give 2 shits on whether or not the sword is well represented and for that matter experienced players who do are very troubled. As for the relevance comment, what? Now the chocolate comment is the most disturbing, please can we not compare Hell Hand and Worm Monster to whatever the fuck an Opoloopa is. If ur having a tough time deciding between BK3 and Candyman then Candyman is the way to go. Good Day to u Sir. I said Good Day.

#2547 3 months ago
Quoted from Asael:

The Iron Maiden Pinball has cool modes (except Flight of Icarus!!!), everything is staged. As an example the Aces high mode, you start against a few fighter, easy to do even for unskilled players, then there are the bombers and it's getting harder and if you finish that, the Ace Pilots waits for the skilled player. You can find this gameplay in Hobbit too.
And I think it would fit in the BK too. If every Bossfight had 3 stages and you could finish every stage, than the timer resets and every stage you have to use different tactics untill you could finish the boss. That would make this game a dream to play.
Who else thought about World of Warcraft with the boss fights? Now why don't they make this fights more complex. Like the one GoT mode, the lich kings could freeze your flipper and drain your life, so you have to restore it with certain shots. The Molten Core beast could flood the bottom play field with lava , so you only are save to play on the upper playfield, the Hydra could spit poison and you have to hit the shield to shield you before it hits you, the psychodelic hellhand mode could switch your flipper controlls......there are so many possibilities to make these fights epic.

This sounds epic and awesome. I would be down for that. With the upper palyfield somewhat taking the wind out of our sails I would feel much better knowing something like this was in the works to add deeper gameplay. Notice how these monsters attack you on screen. Right now it seems like nothing happens when they do. Surely you aren't invincible otherwise even the black knight is no threat. C'mon Stern. Give us the goods. I want this pin to be awesome!

#2548 3 months ago
Quoted from westofrome:

Only one I can think of offhand is NBAFB. Maybe JM is virtual?

Scared Stiff. Originally designed physical and changed to virtual.

#2549 3 months ago

I always find pin music and sounds to be repetitive when watching streams, but completely different from when I play it. I was really worried that BM66's music was going to drive me crazy after watching streams, but instead I love it.

I wonder if Stern would be better off with shorter streams during reveals. Quick run down of rules, have Jack play with Kieth a couple of times and then leave the crowd wanting more.

#2550 3 months ago
Quoted from master_of_chaos:

Two things that i really dislike: misplaced "magna save" button , non physical kickback ( it´s a balls-save!)
What will come next, a virtualized upper Playfield ?

Quoted from Chitownpinball:

How boring it would be if it was a medieval times pin.

Waitress: "There were no physical kickbacks in Medieval Times, so there are no physical kickbacks in Medieval Times."

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