Batman 66 SLE decals are cut, not wrapped. KISS LE and Prem decals are wrapped.

But wouldn't using 2 or 3 #8 (for more grab) 1/2" on each side (L bracket with 2 or 3 holes on each side) be plenty of reinforcement?

Is that with or without pilot holes? I was reading a paper that the non-pilot hole screws of the exact same type require like 3-5% more force to pull out compared to ones using pilot holes.

What about something like this?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Simpson-Strong-Tie-3-1-4-in-18-Gauge-Gusset-Angle-GA2/100375243

I was just at Home Depot and tested this with #8 1/2" screws and they fit perfectly (in fact, you couldn't push them through, they had to be threaded through by turning).

$25-$41 each?! And the heavy rating is essentially wasted because we wouldn't be using 1/2" diameter bolts with much longer length than a #8 1/2", right?

I'll try the $0.98 Home Depot ones rated at 335lbs and see how it goes.

The one I linked to is the same brand as the expensive one vid1900 mentioned (so it's not some generic item from Home Depot), and handles 335lbs of force, but if there's something reasonable ($25 each is not reasonable) that will do the job better, I'd check that out, too.

Worked for Michael Jackson. Called himself the King of Pop in his PR until people eventually started calling him that, too. Takes dedication, that's all.

Pilot hole definitely weakens grip.

It was splitting before you put the B/W style leg brackets on, right?

Exactly. Every single manufacturer has had issues with each of their machines, at least recently.

If you're comparing it to a Stern Pro, the difference is under $3k. Apples to apples. You can't compare a Stern Pro to a JJP LE.

Depends on how picky you are. They make colored sharpies now. Okie-joe fix is still a fix. It won't hurt the resale value...much.

Black sharpie to blend the wood on the little burn area. Won't even remember it's there eventually.

Might have been my imagination, but on the AS Pre I put these brackets on, it didn't seem like the screws were able to grab the wood on the cabinet as tightly as I expected. Didn't feel "loose" but didn't feel nice and tight, either. I wonder if Stern is using cheaper, less dense plywood now, too.

Membership in the Church of the Secret Starfish is widespread. You're just waking up to this?

More like...

cadillac-eldorado-convertible-005 (resized).jpg

With the B/W braces, 3/4" with a couple washers worked out well. Test it over the top side to see how close to the outer edge it will come if you have the brace+washers.

It a feature on their Die Hard pin.

A related problem, though, is it seems like Stern is using cheaper wood in AS and Batman cabinets. The "grab" of screws when installing those plates was MUCH less than KISS, etc. It's a bigger problem than just a reinforcement bracket.

I guess that explains why the cabinet wood is softer and/or less dense on the AS and Batman pins. Hidden cost cutting that's going to bite them. I wouldn't have known if I hadn't had a KISS to compare the screw bite to.

Someone else here (I don't remember who) also posted that they thought that the wood felt softer when they installed the B/W brackets. I was just fortunate that I had a launch KISS, AS, and BM'66 to compare. KISS cabinet wood feels more substantial when screwing in the brackets. More bite.

I used 3/4" #8 with double #8 stainless washers to make sure it didn't bulge out the other side while still getting in deep enough to have the most wood to grab.

Good idea with the titebond 3. I'll keep that in mind for future reinforcements. Hopefully Stern decides to spend $19.32 more per cabinet and goes back to using the Churchill type CLEARLY better wood for cabs again. They're asking for long-term much more expensive trouble by cutting this corner.

Because replacements and warranty claims for cabinets falling apart on location and in homes are unattractive and will be more of a pain than playfield swaps.

Stern bugs and "reliability" in gaming devices would guarantee a short foray into that fantasy. They'd find out real quick their way of doing things doesn't fly when Vegas/Macau money is on the line.

Generally speaking, context provides the answer correctly most of the time. People will keep abbreviating. It's faster to type that way, too.

If you don't drill a pilot hole, doesn't the glue get wiped off as the screw goes into the wood?

Where did you get pan or hex head wood screws? Those are all sheet metal screws everywhere I check.

But pilot holes reduce the strength of the screw hold. This new Stern cabinet wood is so soft, I don't think there's a big risk of splitting. I was more interested in how the glue helps if most gets stripped off as it goes in.

That's what I used, I was just curious where he FOUND actual wood screws with pan or hex heads. There's none around here.

Well, surprise! You're already wrong. Jack told me personally that they've sold over 1000 Dialed In already, and they project selling 1000 more while those first 1000 are being build. So that's 2000 Dialed In at the BEGINNING.

How would you like your crow served?

Possible, but to say that it will sell 1k in its lifetime when Jack says they've sold more than that already and he expects to sell another 1k by the time those are built...even if you discount what he says by 50%, that's still more than the "not even" lifetime 1k sales iceman has been touting. Plus, given the people I know that have already lined up for theirs, I doubt he's too far off 1k in sales for Dialed In - and it deserves it.

Not that it needs to be said, but Pinside is not the real world, and even then, pinside profiles here are not kept updated by everyone. I seldom update mine. Pins often go in and out of my collection without ever showing up in my profile, unless I go back and add it to the "had it" list later.

No one's forcing you to buy an LE. Standard is $8000, and worth every penny.

What are you talking about? This isn't Stern where they take away game features if you don't pay up. The Dialed In Standard/LE differences are cosmetic. The actual games are the same.

And if you think "well, only a thousand more" to LE, then you have enough to afford an LE. The price point for the game is $8000. If you want it to look real nice, it's more. Simple as that.

You're missing the point. If you are struggling to get $8000 together, it's NOT "only 1k more" because it's not possible or very difficult to make that additional leap. So if you are thinking "only 1k more" you can afford 1k more. Different circumstances.

BTW, I only paid 9k flat, delivered, but I preordered at reveal.

You seem to have upped your sales estimates over time.

And given that you haven't actually played the game, your assessment is pretty hilarious. It's a premium game experience in the WoZ vein. Stern, Heighway, Spooky, AP, etc, have nothing even close to it currently.

Again, you haven't PLAYED the GAME. I've played it (repeatedly) and every modern Stern pin except maybe Rolling Stones (is that modern Stern? Seems like the end of their crappier era). Literally nothing compares to the experience with Dialed In. It's in a class by itself. You may not like the THEME, but as a pin with features, polish and build quality taken together, nothing touches it.

I think the reason you see a buyers market for pins developing because a LOT of people are selling pins to finance these new pins coming up.

You mean the theatre shot, missed? Maybe it wasn't leveled properly? This never happened to me personally, and the outlanes are far less abusive than KISS and Aerosmith.

You don't have to rationalize. You PLAYED IT and didn't like it. That's cool. Every pin is not for everyone. I'm still not a big fan of Aerosmith and prefer KISS for that layout. Preference is by nature subjective. But you arrived at that once you had your hands on one.

What he's saying and I said, too, is that this didn't happen for us. I played many games at PAGG and that never happened once, so it's maybe bad setup or a Canada-only feature.

There was only one DI at PAGG. Weird that it happened enough for him to complain about but never happened to me. I mean, I had some close calls, but I was always able to save them. Tilt was very forgiving on that machine.

Dealing with China manufacturing, I would be shocked if they were more than 1/4 that, delivered to the US in quantity. So maybe $5/game total for 4 brackets? It would not be a lot in the big picture, a tiny fraction of 1% the retail price of a pro. Or they could offer it only on their "premium" models like Prem/LE as an incentive and it becomes even less of the total cost.

But they won't. Quality and durability is clearly not driving Stern these days.

You've obviously never dealt with China. They deal in qty 10,000-1,000,000 a month on small items like that. The price would go down the more you make until you hit that factory's production limit. Then just find an additional factory. They're all over the place. Most are next to preschools and prisons so the workforce is right there.

Actually, I have seen that and done something about it. If you'll recall, I did the Shadow Plastic SuperSet under license from Gene back in the day. When I started, ONE plastic by the sanctum was $300 because no one had them. I made the whole set, including plastics that Bally sold as part of separate assemblies, and sold the whole set of all plastics retail for a little over half that one plastic. Did it twice in fact because the first run had screened ink that ended up crackling over time and I had to recall and replace all the sets after 6 months or so. That was a learning experience.

That is the epitome of small run, custom manufacture. I did that for the hobby, not for profit. But I do plenty of Chinese manufacture for profit. I know how it works firsthand. It sounds like you do not have firsthand experience.

You can make a new mold and test in less than a month.

A generic part like these leg plates that you need 4 of per machine would definitely be made in qty 10,000 plus (that's only 2500 machines), and you could have it in 6-8 weeks, including 3 weeks of shipping by sea and customs clearance. It might take a month longer if it was some part where you had to make a new mold.

It's not hard. Really. You have to find the right partner in China, and THAT'S HARD. But once you have that, it's pretty easy.

The only place where it's dicey is if you're talking a custom part in small quantities (1000 or less). THEN it becomes expensive and/or time-consuming. Leg plates are not that.

Pinballmap.com and the pinside map are your friends when traveling. I use both all the time to find locations.

They added B/W style leg bolt brackets again in a running change, too.

Here's pics of the running change Stern has made to Star Wars cabinets, reverting to the B/W style leg bolt brackets. Knock yourself out:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-announces-star-wars-pinball/page/137#post-3924456

You're shooting blanks again...

Personally, I would leave it alone after reinforcing the cabinet.

It's more awkward than heavy.

That's the best reason. They need to catch up or reorganize or shake up management or SOMETHING to get their act together. I'm out of Stern NIB until I see changes in the field, not promises.

Fortunately Houdini and jPotC can fill that void just fine for the next 6-12 months.

Amortized? They're dirt cheap, relatively speaking. I would be really surprised if Stern started their junior programmers out at more than $60k/yr. If they work on two machines a year (more likely three, but...) and those machines sell a relative small 2500 units total together, that's $24 bucks a machine. Programmer cost is not the issue. I'm sure it's more to do with experience/talent and stern cost cutting.

In the end you have to amortize costs to get the cost of goods. The office space is already baked into general overhead they're already paying whether you have another programmer or not. There's probably a few grand of office equipment and computer hardware per new programmer, but it's nothing compared to the recurring salary. Even if junior programmers were $100k, broken out to a per machine basis, it's a relatively small bump. I think the bigger problem is the structure of the organization and too deep cost-cutting. Both need a shakeup.

Not shipping games with at least 1.00 code is a pretty new development with Stern. Only two games in the last 7 years I checked shipped less than 1.00, Star Wars and B'66. Star wars is only 90 days and still no 1.00. Batman '66 is almost a year with alpha code. GotG will be a good test as to whether Stern is setting a new bad ship-unfinished-and-pray trend or reforming, because if Lonnie really did do the code, there won't be much in the way of updates after the fact.