Cincinnati, OH
Quoted from Shapeshifter:My plates fitted perfectly in my KISS pro.
Hoping to get AS soon so will see if they also fit perfect in that.
(Topic ID: 186114)
Quoted from Sanfordpk:I got my plates for my AS LE from pinball life also, they were a perfect fit, no gaps.
Quoted from pindude80:I did your method and used 3/4" # 10 screws with a lock washer. I bought # 10 x 1/2" screws. I held the brackets up to the top of the cabinet with my plumbers tape installed and didn't feel the 1/2" screws would get enough bite in the cabinet so I went with the # 10. Kind of weird that my brackets had a gap behind them and yours fit snugly. I only did my AS which was built a little over a month ago so I wonder if some of the cabinets specs changed or my brackets are made differently from yours. I bought the B/W style brackets from Pinball Life. We'll see how they fit on my older games- Mustang and Metallica
If you didn't have that gap you would have needed a washer THEN a lock washer to make sure you didn't pop out the other side when using the 3/4 inch #10's. Crazy how some games have a thicker wood wedge. Oh well that's pinball. 
Quoted from MustangPaul:If you didn't have that gap you would have needed a washer THEN a lock washer to make sure you didn't pop out the other side when using the 3/4 inch #10's. Crazy how some games have a thicker wood wedge. Oh well that's pinball.
Toronto, ON
Quoted from Yoko2una:Calling 'em like I see 'em. This WoZ looks to have been on route for a while, but still is the worst cabinet separation I've seen on a modern era game.
Worse than this? 
Quoted from Yoko2una:Calling 'em like I see 'em. This WoZ looks to have been on route for a while, but still is the worst cabinet separation I've seen on a modern era game.
Is that thing outdoors??
Quoted from Yoko2una:Calling 'em like I see 'em. This WoZ looks to have been on route for a while, but still is the worst cabinet separation I've seen on a modern era game.
That looks bad. It also looks kind of grimy. Do you know anything more about that game? Looks like it's had a rough ride.
Quoted from Pimp77:Is that thing outdoors??
Close. It's at a beach arcade at Salisbury Beach, MA. Since PinWiz closed in NH, the girl and I have been wandering around aimlessly trying to find our new places to play.
There are 3 arcades there, 2 of which were open last night. The arcade with WoZ had much newer pins (Avengers, Kiss, Mustang, WoZ, GB... w/ ghosting PF, Addams, Aerosmith, and IJ4), while the other had an older collection (TSPP, Monopoly, SWE1, Sega SWT, and JP).
At the older place, you could really see what happens to games that never get serviced while sitting near the oceanfront (basically located under the words "upper deck" in the picture below and facing the water). All 5 pins were filthy, 2 lock bars were corroding, rubbers cracked all over the place, DMD issues, JP couldn't find most of its balls, and countless mechs weren't functioning as intended.
The newer place had much cleaner games (and a freggin Aerosmith Pro!) but some weren't level and some were showing some signs of neglect. Mustang had a flasher lamp hanging out of the dome and a ball stuck completely under a slingshot plastic. TAF's playfield was black and white... literally. Wish I took a picture of that. I will at some point as it's not far away from my folks.
WoZ though was unfortunate. 3rd flipper's ruby slipper was sitting in the right orbit, a GI string was out, and the tilt wasn't installed. You could dance around the room with that game and it would keep playing without a warning. That PLUS the physical location I think did that cabinet in a long time ago.
Here is the googlemap, WoZ is about 10' inside where the arrow points, and in the summertime, the front and side of this arcade are basically open walls to the outside.
Quoted from thundergod76:Worse than this?
Arguably yes.
There's much talk in the earlier pages about the lap joint Stern uses. They're cracking, just like that BM66 is, but they don't separate wildly due to the lapping style.
On Woz, the panels look to be cut at 45's and glued together (someone may want to correct me if I'm wrong). The black space on the WoZ may look like a decal is peeling or something, but its not. That black space is SPACE between the front and side panels. You could swipe a credit card through there with little resistance. The wood ends right at the decal edges.
Quoted from Yoko2una:Close. It's at a beach arcade at Salisbury Beach, MA. Since PinWiz closed in NH, the girl and I have been wandering around aimlessly trying to find our new places to play.
There are 3 arcades there, 2 of which were open last night. The arcade with WoZ had much newer pins (Avengers, Kiss, Mustang, WoZ, GB... w/ ghosting PF, Addams, Aerosmith, and IJ4), while the other had an older collection (TSPP, Monopoly, SWE1, Sega SWT, and JP).
At the older place, you could really see what happens to games that never get serviced while sitting near the oceanfront (basically located under the words "upper deck" in the picture below and facing the water). All 5 pins were filthy, 2 lock bars were corroding, rubbers cracked all over the place, DMD issues, JP couldn't find most of its balls, and countless mechs weren't functioning as intended.
The newer place had much cleaner games (and a freggin Aerosmith Pro!) but some weren't level and some were showing some signs of neglect. Mustang had a flasher lamp hanging out of the dome and a ball stuck completely under a slingshot plastic. TAF's playfield was black and white... literally. Wish I took a picture of that. I will at some point as it's not far away from my folks.
WoZ though was unfortunate. 3rd flipper's ruby slipper was sitting in the right orbit, a GI string was out, and the tilt wasn't installed. You could dance around the room with that game and it would keep playing without a warning. That PLUS the physical location I think did that cabinet in a long time ago.
Here is the googlemap, WoZ is about 10' inside where the arrow points, and in the summertime, the front and side of this arcade are basically open walls to the outside.
Well, there you go. Salty, moist air is a killer. Add in temp fluctuations and watch it separate. This isn't a NIB game people are opening and finding it split out of the box! This game has been rode hard and put away wet many times.
Quoted from Yoko2una:On Woz, the panels look to be cut at 45's and glued together (someone may want to correct me if I'm wrong). The black space on the WoZ may look like a decal is peeling or something, but its not. That black space is SPACE between the front and side panels. You could swipe a credit card through there with little resistance. The wood ends right at the decal edges.
Looks like a mess. The operator should REALLY bracket that thing up and glue it. It's going to be a disaster if left alone.
Quoted from Yoko2una:Calling 'em like I see 'em. This WoZ looks to have been on route for a while, but still is the worst cabinet separation I've seen on a modern era game.
Yes, but you can easily fix this cabinet design with industrial wood glue, clamps, and completely hide most of what is shown.
It is not even severely badly damaged, it is just a seam split, which happens to many cabinets that were built starting in the late 80s, and early 90s.
Contrary to potential beliefs, the damage on this cabinet will not get that much worse, unless the leg is loose.
The leg bracket mounting will hold the cabinet position in place.
I cannot say the same for the ongoing march of Stern cabinets into their place in pinball manufacturing history.
Sometimes you don't always get what you think you payed for in terms of quality.
This does not seem to be stopping people from buying the games right now, obvious to the non-resolved problems, and cost cutting manufacturing techniques. People are just starting to catch on to what has been progressing since 2010.
Seven years is a long time to watch just based on the current revival.
This is by far the worst I have ever seen. It started out only on the right hand side, but now the left hand side is just as bad. The damage keeps on getting worse. If it wasn't for the overlap on the lockdown bar and the legs, you could probably pull the front of the cabinet right off. Thankfully Stern did send the operator a new cabinet to replace this one, but the op hasn't done the swap yet.
FWIW, the same operator has a Ghostbusters that is fine and has bought all the recent Sterns NIB and never had an issue like this before.
Quoted from CubeSnake:Stern should be embarrassed for releasing their garbage like this. I guess "Quality Isn't Job 1" over at Stern.
Riiiight. Or, like everyone else, they make mistakes.
Nice to see that they replaced it with a free cab. Not sure what more you can ask for?
Quoted from Chambahz:Riiiight. Or, like everyone else, they make mistakes.
Nice to see that they replaced it with a free cab. Not sure what more you can ask for?
Brackets.
Can you imagine the deal Stern would get if they ordered 10,000 of those Williams hd leg brackets. 
We're stuck buying them for $4.99 each + shipping. 
I got a better price cuz I bought 24 but still not as cheap as what Stern could get them for.
Kalgan
Quoted from king-pin:A decent build quality in the first place!
Oh? I'm curious as to which of your MANY, MANY Stern titles have had issues?
Oh right. None. Cause you're a B/W fan and don't own a single Stern title.
So once again, just someone blowing hot air, complaining about someone else's problems that they've had no issues with themselves, making the matter appear far worse than it really is.
I start becoming concerned when Stern owners complain about cabinets falling apart, and Stern doing nothing.
Quoted from jar155:Brackets.
Quoted from MustangPaul:Can you imagine the deal Stern would get if they ordered 10,000 of those Williams hd leg brackets. We're stuck buying them for $4.99 each + shipping. I got a better price cuz I bought 24 but still not as cheap as what Stern could get them for.
Seems to me as though it's not really the brackets that are the problem, it's the roughly 24-30 Pinside reported cabinets that are the issue. Fix those, and the existing brackets are likely good enough. At least, they've never been an issue on any of the Sterns that I've owned.
I did buy the B/W brackets for my new Aerosmith, just in case -but again, it's a band-aid solution. Cabinets that are properly built should mean not having to upgrade brackets in the first place.
Quoted from MustangPaul:Can you imagine the deal Stern would get if they ordered 10,000 of those Williams hd leg brackets. We're stuck buying them for $4.99 each + shipping. I got a better price cuz I bought 24 but still not as cheap as what Stern could get them for.
Dealing with China manufacturing, I would be shocked if they were more than 1/4 that, delivered to the US in quantity. So maybe $5/game total for 4 brackets? It would not be a lot in the big picture, a tiny fraction of 1% the retail price of a pro. Or they could offer it only on their "premium" models like Prem/LE as an incentive and it becomes even less of the total cost.
But they won't. Quality and durability is clearly not driving Stern these days.
Just got a Aerosmith pro, had cab issues right out of the box, sent Chas pics the next day, day after new cab on its way!
I can say they have taken care of every problem I have ever had. I'm sure there are some people who have not been so lucky, but in my opinion and my dealings with stern, they are still the top pinball maker out there, and their service is par to none.
Quoted from iceman44:I pay attention to Ops like Freemont with his Vegas route.
Says his Woz is a blown out disaster at 10k plays while his IM and Avatar are still going strong at 16k plays. Thinks both are garbage for route.
For HUO, I'm thrilled with my Stern pins and fine with the quality thereof, like my Woz too!
My WOZ has 9000 plays and looks like brand new. I have had some broken parts along the way but nothing serious.
I have done nothing but regular waxing, changing balls, rubbers and general cleaning and maintenance.
Quoted from iceman44:I pay attention to Ops like Freemont with his Vegas route.
Says his Woz is a blown out disaster at 10k plays while his IM and Avatar are still going strong at 16k plays. Thinks both are garbage for route.
For HUO, I'm thrilled with my Stern pins and fine with the quality thereof, like my Woz too!
Both what? I admit I am lost, both WoZ and ?
Quoted from MustangPaul:Can you imagine the deal Stern would get if they ordered 10,000 of those Williams hd leg brackets. We're stuck buying them for $4.99 each + shipping. I got a better price cuz I bought 24 but still not as cheap as what Stern could get them for.
Something omitted is if Stern did buy bulk from the manufacturer, which they will not not, so people should not expect the HD bracket on SW.
There would be a shortage, and the price per bracket would go UP, not exclusive to shortage, but interest and need.
Stern is not going to change jack #$!@ on their construction methods and material selection until private owners and operators complain in huge mass, and jack already left the building.
Right now Stern still considers the whole problem, "an isolated issue", and is dealing only with individual cases.
I cannot wait to hear the wail of SW owners in the future when the cabinets remain the same and are failing.
This thread is going to explode again and you will hear the statement, "I did not know there was a problem."
Sana'a
Even if Stern had those 25cent B/W brackets, it would still crack the same way (same as all the cracked B/W cabs I've fixed).
Six little #8 screws offer nothing as far as holding power in soft wood.
If I can bend that thin, sheet metal bracket with my hands, how is it going to protect a wood corner when I put 300-500lbs of torque on it?
How about when I put all the torque on it 20 times in a game?
"You can't place faith in material things,
material things will fail you....."
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:Something omitted is if Stern did buy bulk from the manufacturer (which they will not not, so people should not expect the HD bracket on SW), as there would be a shortage, and the price per bracket would go UP anyway, not exclusive to shortage, but interest and need.
You've obviously never dealt with China. They deal in qty 10,000-1,000,000 a month on small items like that. The price would go down the more you make until you hit that factory's production limit. Then just find an additional factory. They're all over the place. Most are next to preschools and prisons so the workforce is right there.
Quoted from PinMonk:You've obviously never dealt with China. They deal in qty 10,000-1,000,000 a month on small items like that. The price would go down the more you make until you hit that factory's production limit. Then just find an additional factory. They're all over the place. Most are next to preschools and prisons so the workforce is right there.
Obviously, you have not seen in pinball what happens when parts are in short supply for this niche industry.
Some parts can be mass produced more easily, some cannot.
Parts when exhausted taken months, if not years to come back, if at all, unless a game (or general requirement) remains in production.
Generic parts such as plastic buttons and metal fabrication machining (such as bracket plates) can be if a company is tooled up to do so.
Other parts are not as easy to send out to China, including anything game specific or related "widget".
Hot stamping pop bumper caps for example requires the mold, which is not "off the shelf".
Some types of plastic parts cannot be "vacuum formed" out of loss of detail, but must be injection molded or extruded.
Rapid prototyping has helped this industry, but does not solve all problems.
Quoted from vid1900:Even if Stern had those 25cent B/W brackets, it would still crack the same way (same as all the cracked B/W cabs I've fixed).
Six little #8 screws offer nothing as far as holding power in soft wood.
Gotta agree. The brackets at the bottom will provide *some* help, but the only way to make the joint rock solid is to glue a wedge all the way up the inside of the joint.
PS you guys who are fitting the leg brackets or the corner brackets, make sure you use a screw with a beefy wood thread, like the one in this picture. They'll lock into the wood a lot better than a fine thread screw ... they'll likely just pull out under any serious load.
rd
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:Obviously, you have not seen in pinball what happens when parts are in short supply for this niche industry.
Actually, I have seen that and done something about it. If you'll recall, I did the Shadow Plastic SuperSet under license from Gene back in the day. When I started, ONE plastic by the sanctum was $300 because no one had them. I made the whole set, including plastics that Bally sold as part of separate assemblies, and sold the whole set of all plastics retail for a little over half that one plastic. Did it twice in fact because the first run had screened ink that ended up crackling over time and I had to recall and replace all the sets after 6 months or so. That was a learning experience.
That is the epitome of small run, custom manufacture. I did that for the hobby, not for profit. But I do plenty of Chinese manufacture for profit. I know how it works firsthand. It sounds like you do not have firsthand experience.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:Some parts can be mass produced more easily, some cannot.
Parts when exhausted taken months, if not years to come back, if at all, unless a game (or general requirement) remains in production.
Generic parts such as plastic buttons and metal fabrication machining (such as bracket plates) can be if a company is tooled up to do so.
Other parts are not as easy to send out to China, including anything game specific or related "widget".
Hot stamping pop bumper caps for example requires the mold, which is not "off the shelf".
Some types of plastic parts cannot be "vacuum formed" out of loss of detail, but must be injection molded or extruded.
Rapid prototyping has helped this industry, but does not solve all problems.
You can make a new mold and test in less than a month.
A generic part like these leg plates that you need 4 of per machine would definitely be made in qty 10,000 plus (that's only 2500 machines), and you could have it in 6-8 weeks, including 3 weeks of shipping by sea and customs clearance. It might take a month longer if it was some part where you had to make a new mold.
It's not hard. Really. You have to find the right partner in China, and THAT'S HARD. But once you have that, it's pretty easy.
The only place where it's dicey is if you're talking a custom part in small quantities (1000 or less). THEN it becomes expensive and/or time-consuming. Leg plates are not that.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:Obviously, you have not seen in pinball what happens when parts are in short supply for this niche industry.
Some parts can be mass produced more easily, some cannot.
Parts when exhausted taken months, if not years to come back, if at all, unless a game (or general requirement) remains in production.
Generic parts such as plastic buttons and metal fabrication machining (such as bracket plates) can be if a company is tooled up to do so.
We are talking stamped metal... the kind of work done freaking everywhere... and the piece has been in continuous production for decades. It's not exotic materials, it's not an exotic low yield process, it's not even a labor intensive process. This is the kind of part a factory creates by the thousands in a day. Scheduling and shipping would take longer than actual production. Stop talking apples and oranges... this piece is not NOS from 30 years ago needing to be reproduced.
We were not describing the same thing, nor did I say it was "impossible".
Someone please let me know when they see a run of correct AGC flipper assembly parts for things such plungers, links, pawls, and other correct assemblies as per factory game specifications.
Still waiting over 15 years for anything that was not leftover NOS, and most have been gone since the late early 00s, unless I occasionally find a operator part warehouse stash.
Most people had to settle for swapping in WMS flipper assembly parts from the late 80s.
Not every game they made was entirely tiny in production.
Capcom parts are another one, although supply is still available, but limited.
Good luck with anything Zaccaria, Bell, Taito, or LTD.
Everything is either molded or stamped, but I don't see any suppliers.
If it is so easy, feel free to go do it, but it will not be cheap in those tiny quantities.
I have also had to make parts runs for games as well because no parts supplier decided to support the titles in the first place.
These includes game specific, stamped, machined, plastic injection, molded, and extruded parts.
Sometimes the best thing to do is do it yourself, not wait for others, and pass the extras onto other collectors who need them.
This includes "licensed" parts.
When a person does this, they are sold in flash.
That I agree.
Nothing was considered here that was electronics based, and this is a different animal, but also completely feasible.
Those that have watched remember the PCB "parts wars" from the early 00s long before any WPC replacements were made.
Roll the clock back a few more years into the early 90s, and some might remember the Bally MPU-35, GTB System 1, and GTB SS80 shortfalls. It took nearly 15-20 years for replacements based on need.
When there is shortage, parts suppliers don't always run to have them made.
When a manufacturer locks up a supplier, prices GO UP, substantially.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:Someone let me know when they see a run of AGC flipper assembly parts for things such plungers, pawls, and other correct assemblies as per factory game specifications.
For instance plungers are just steel rod with slot cut through it, and a hole bored into it. Anybody with a Lathe/Mill combo from Harbor Freight could make you 1,000 in a weekend. I've made plenty of custom ones at home, and I'm hardly a machinist.
If you have a need for small runs like that, look on https://100kgarages.com/ or https://CNCzone.com because this is exactly the kind of small production jobs these fabbers are looking for.
Any CNC metal, wood, plastic part can now be quickly fabricated, bent, welded, or machined.
Quoted from iceman44:Says his Woz is a blown out disaster at 10k plays while his IM and Avatar are still going strong at 16k plays. Thinks both are garbage for route.
Quoted from BC_Gambit:Both what? I admit I am lost, both WoZ and ?
Both WOZ & Hobbit. I pulled both out of the arcade due to operational issues that I'm not willing to invest my time into right now. WOZ playfield has multiple areas of wear down through the playfield print. JJP has pre-printed adhesives with mylar to cover these high wear areas.
All of the pins currently on route (20) are Stern. Ironman VE at NYNY is rolling past 30,000 plays this month. ST Prem, AC/DC pro, Metallica pro, Avatar LE, & TWD Pro are all rolling north of 20,000 plays this month as well.
Quoted from ExtremePinball:Both WOZ & Hobbit. I pulled both out of the arcade due to operational issues that I'm not willing to invest my time into right now. WOZ playfield has multiple areas of wear down through the playfield print. JJP has pre-printed adhesives with mylar to cover these high wear areas.
All of the pins currently on route (20) are Stern. Ironman VE at NYNY is rolling past 30,000 plays this month. ST Prem, AC/DC pro, Metallica pro, Avatar LE, & TWD Pro are all rolling north of 20,000 plays this month as well.
Thank you for making the time to respond; If I had to guess, that is what I would have guessed. Hopefully Dialed In will be more robust, but I wouldn't blame you for letting others be the beta testers on that one!
Quoted from BC_Gambit:Thank you for making the time to respond; If I had to guess, that is what I would have guessed. Hopefully Dialed In will be more robust, but I wouldn't blame you for letting others be the beta testers on that one!
I'm letting others be the only testers on that one. Without a licensed theme to draw in newbie players in tourist locations, I just won't operate it here in Las Vegas. Then to set the price of an entry level model to nearly 50% over a Stern pro, and they've completely lost my business. Original themes are awesome for pinball collectors, not so much for operators.
At this point I'm only looking for 2 things out of a pinball machine.... Income and durability. Unfortunately both are very difficult to achieve from this particular form of entertainment.
I can state from industry experience as one of the responsible contracting/engineering US Army officers for management and manufacturing working with Colt Manufacturing LLC to re outfit the Iraqi Army with repair parts (springs, bushings, bolts, cams, etc, handguards, baffles, barrels, assemblies, etc) along with entire weapons for the M16A4 line from 2007-2009, and complete replacement parts line for AK 47/74/100-109 series from Brownell, it does not take a weekend to negotiate the construction, costs, manufacturing, or shipping of parts, even in mass quantities above 10K.
Construction times are variable, dependent on complexity.
Lower quantities up to 5000 might be in stock in the case of some of the items mentioned.
Rush shipping is always available for additional costs.
Similarities in other manufacturing metal/plastic industries such as pinball are comparable, that is why they were used to support conflicts of the past as redirected by the US Federal government.
Even simple parts, and that is a much larger industry in comparison to this one.
Ammunition casing production is very similar to leg bolt plates (stamping and lathe), and much simpler than some of the above parts.
Tolerances may not be equal, but still require precise machining for pinball parts, and I am not focusing exclusively on leg bolt plates.
That is oversimplifying the manufacturing process, although I wish it could be different.
Quoted from Chambahz:Oh? I'm curious as to which of your MANY, MANY Stern titles have had issues?
Oh right. None. Cause you're a B/W fan and don't own a single Stern title.
So once again, just someone blowing hot air, complaining about someone else's problems that they've had no issues with themselves, making the matter appear far worse than it really is.
I start becoming concerned when Stern owners complain about cabinets falling apart, and Stern doing nothing.
So now you have to be a Stern owner to make a comment about a Stern machine,please forgive my ignorance.The guy asked a genuine question and I gave an honest and genuine answer,a better build quality would be better for everyone but if you don't think so then fair enough.
Quoted from BC_Gambit:Both what? I admit I am lost, both WoZ and ?
Old timer route guy from 70's who fixed my BM66 basically thought it was junk compared to the "old days"
The speed of pinball today, ramps, etc he feels leads to an early death
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:Someone please let me know when they see a run of correct AGC flipper assembly parts for things such plungers, links, pawls,
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:I can state from industry experience as one of the responsible contracting/engineering US Army officers for management and manufacturing
If you are an engineer, then there can't be any mechanical pinball flipper part that you could not have quickly and inexpensively made in bulk.
Pinball parts are low tolerance, super simple mechs that mostly were designed before CAD or CNC.
The patents have all run out......
Quoted from ExtremePinball:All of the pins currently on route (20) are Stern. Ironman VE at NYNY is rolling past 30,000 plays this month. ST Prem, AC/DC pro, Metallica pro, Avatar LE, & TWD Pro are all rolling north of 20,000 plays this month as well.
How are your Spike games doing? Are the boards holding up OK?
Quoted from clg:How are your Spike games doing? Are the boards holding up OK?
So far, only one or two cabinet node boards that I can remember. All other failures were normal pinball related weak links.... broken wires, shredding flipper solenoid stop brackets, broken flipper plunger links, misc. failed hardware, etc.
I did have a metal solenoid bracket (sword) break at the bend on a GOT pro, but this had nothing to do with the Spike system. I did note that the replacement part had been updated with additional structural bends to prevent future breakage. So I'm sure I'm not the first.
Quoted from Chambahz:Seems to me as though it's not really the brackets that are the problem, it's the roughly 24-30 Pinside reported cabinets that are the issue. Fix those, and the existing brackets are likely good enough. At least, they've never been an issue on any of the Sterns that I've owned.
I did buy the B/W brackets for my new Aerosmith, just in case -but again, it's a band-aid solution. Cabinets that are properly built should mean not having to upgrade brackets in the first place.
Those little brackets are cheap ass shit and you know it and yes the B/W brackets WOULD have kept the seams from flexing and splitting. Not to mention the maybe 3 threads for each bolt on the cheap brackets stripping out, the Williams braces have 6 threads. I know that being a fact cuz 2 of the stock plates on a HS I had had to be replaced because they were stripped. I replace all 4 plates with the HD ones and that game was solid as a rock when I sold it. I'll bet many people have stripped the threads on those cheap ass braces. The HD braces are the solution for both those problems.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:Parts when exhausted taken months, if not years to come back,
I don't know about that. When I bought my 24 Marco only sent me 23 because they ran out. A week later I had my 24th one.
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:I can state from industry experience as one of the responsible contracting/engineering US Army officers for management and manufacturing working with Colt Manufacturing LLC to re outfit the Iraqi Army with repair parts (springs, bushings, bolts, cams, etc, handguards, baffles, barrels, assemblies, etc) along with entire weapons for the M16A4 line from 2007-2009, and complete replacement parts line for AK 47/74/100-109 series from Brownell, it does not take a weekend to negotiate the construction, costs, manufacturing, or shipping of parts, even in mass quantities above 10K.
Construction times are variable, dependent on complexity.
Lower quantities up to 5000 might be in stock in the case of some of the items mentioned.
Rush shipping is always available for additional costs.
Similarities in other manufacturing metal/plastic industries such as pinball are comparable, that is why they were used to support conflicts of the past as redirected by the US Federal government.
Even simple parts, and that is a much larger industry in comparison to this one.
Ammunition casing production is very similar to leg bolt plates (stamping and lathe), and much simpler than some of the above parts.
Tolerances may not be equal, but still require precise machining for pinball parts, and I am not focusing exclusively on leg bolt plates.
That is oversimplifying the manufacturing process, although I wish it could be different.
Why are you showing complex metal pieces? We're talking about heavy duty stamped steel leg brackets with holes drilled in them. Get back on the subject we're talking about. 
Quoted from rotordave:Gotta agree. The brackets at the bottom will provide *some* help, but the only way to make the joint rock solid is to glue a wedge all the way up the inside of the joint.
PS you guys who are fitting the leg brackets or the corner brackets, make sure you use a screw with a beefy wood thread, like the one in this picture. They'll lock into the wood a lot better than a fine thread screw ... they'll likely just pull out under any serious load.
rd
Here's a link for folks looking to buy a course deep thread screw for the brackets.
https://www.amazon.com/Rok-Hardware-Coarse-Thread-Phosphate/dp/B01M03T9SM/ref=sr_1_1
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
