totally agree.

but i tend to think they will look after their bottom line first.. so they will continue with the cheap manufacturing where they can get away with it.... if buyers are happy with that, fine ....

I have a feeling you are going to be so wrong. Seems that most people that plays this pin absolutely loves it and I bet there are some Stern buyers who will be waiting and watching given recent QC issues at Stern, I am sure it will sell pretty well.

Umm...no, not really.....I don't bash , but will never own one ( and have played it, love my WOZ, btw)....I do hope they sell quite a few, however, as competition at any level is always good....

I'm a B/W guy and was about to buy a GB LE NIB. I Helen off at the last second and I'm glad I did. I've seen nothing but crap from Stern. They're pf's are garbage...have seen them on several NIB games, including Aerosmith with major dimpling. Their magnets on the games around the IM era are always beat up. Now the cabinets on new gamesz And they rarely finish code.

I'm annoyed at how B/W went out and these guys are still in business. Just crap all around.

Hope you're issue gets fixed quickly.

I hate to say this, but this cabinet issue is a deal breaker for me. I am not buying NIB, these morons at Stern better fix this or they will be losing many NIB buyers. I also won't be buying one of these messed up cabinets used, unless it's at a steep discount. THIS COST CUTTING IS OUT OF CONTROL STERN!

Stern has been 100% dependable with any issues I've ever had.
Not always perfect, but always stepping up to the plate, sending replacement boards, or helpful advice to fix anything that wasn't 100%.
I've had zero issues with my new ASLE. Love it.
I have 4 other really good pinball friends nearby who own somewhere around 30+ recent Sterns.
1 guy had a defective GB playfield ghost, which was recently replaced and now looks and works great.
No other issues (aside from things like node boards that had to be replaced, etc). NONE, that come to mind.
I had a JJP WoZ start smoking, shortly after unboxing it. They were great to refund me.
I had an early Full Throttle with numerous issues, also refunded thankfully.
One of my buddies has had numerous small issues with his Hobbit, most of which have been resolved.
AMH? Two friends (both of whom love the game still), have had to fix things here and there.
In short, pinball machines aren't always built perfectly.
Stern manufactures the most pins BY FAR, so have more issues reported.

Those of you without a single modern Stern in your collection, chirping from the sidelines, come off like buffoons.
I mean, no disrespect if you don't like their games, but if that's the case, why are you so preoccupied with reported issues?
Nothing better to do? Seriously?

If you actually asked for current owners with issues, unresolved after contacting Stern directly, I expect this whole "Stern quality" concern would be put to rest. It sure as Hell wouldn't be multiple pages in length and I expect would be quite reasonable in numbers, given the number of pins that Stern sells and the numbers of parts on each machine.

My opinion anyway. But of course, you are all entitled to your own.

Well, surprise! You're already wrong. Jack told me personally that they've sold over 1000 Dialed In already, and they project selling 1000 more while those first 1000 are being build. So that's 2000 Dialed In at the BEGINNING.

How would you like your crow served?

While I believe that they will sell ~1000 DIs, always remember that Jack says a lot of things that would be best described as exaggerated exuberance

Possible, but to say that it will sell 1k in its lifetime when Jack says they've sold more than that already and he expects to sell another 1k by the time those are built...even if you discount what he says by 50%, that's still more than the "not even" lifetime 1k sales iceman has been touting. Plus, given the people I know that have already lined up for theirs, I doubt he's too far off 1k in sales for Dialed In - and it deserves it.

18 own it so far and 129 have it on their wishlist. I think he's way off and that's coming from someone that's on the fence. I think it looks cool, like the build quality and I like the unliscensed theme. Not crazy about price or the cell phone / social media aspect of it. I would only consider an LE

jacks hardly going to say anything else...

Not that it needs to be said, but Pinside is not the real world, and even then, pinside profiles here are not kept updated by everyone. I seldom update mine. Pins often go in and out of my collection without ever showing up in my profile, unless I go back and add it to the "had it" list later.

I can understand and appreciate the first part of what you said, but you lost me here:

This issue was addressed ad nauseum in the first 30 pages of this thread. I don't have a "modern" Stern in my collection, but here is what I'll tell you about this thread, the issues and your post in general:

1. I have plenty of better things to do. But I care about and enjoy pinball, and as co-owner and running a pinball company, I have to be up to date on issues, especially new releases (for sales, trade in, etc.)

2. Me not owning one personally doesn't matter nor is it germane, and has absolutely no bearing on the production quality of Stern games currently or recently leaving their factory. People bashing them when they are delivering severely sub par products is not the issue....Stern's quality is the issue.

3. A good portion of people posting here have owned modern Sterns, and more importantly, are considering buying one amidst all these crap production issues and cabinets separating. Should potential buyers of something that costs $5k to $15k not be concerned with current issues with that product before they make a purchase? Come on man. Consumer Reports was an entire publication dedicated to evaluate and compare products so consumers could decide what to buy.

4. I know a TON of pinballers, some on here, some not. I would say out of the 100 or so games I've seen at their houses (some slightly used and mostly NIB), on location and at shows in the last year, about 40 - 50% of them had some type of what I would call significant issue (all of which have been addressed in some way, shape or form on the 40,000 topics about them on here). I'm sorry....but 40 - 50% of games leaving the factory with some type of issue is a pretty significant statistic in my book.

5. Last year we bought a NIB Transformers LE for the store. 126 plays in, the game was resetting and wouldn't boot at all, displaying "This game is not configured for the United States - Please call your manufacturer" or something similar. I contacted Stern promptly given that the game was brand new. They did NOTHING. It took them two months to even respond to my email. By then, I had reflowed the one board and replaced the ribbon cable, but it was still doing it occasionally. Stern finally got back to me....about 3 months later, and simply stated "The ribbon cable is failing, and must be replaced." I had a horrible customer service experience with them. They did nothing. I had a brand new $7k game sitting in the showroom, with this stupid message on the DMD for months waiting for them to do something. And the issue just wasn't the ribbon cable....

6. Finally, don't blow a fuse....I already acknowledged that you said "modern" Stern. However, here's what true quality from Stern looks like...my 1979 Dracula. There is a gap on both sides where the joint is (intentionally). This thing is friggin solid, no separation, no signs of wanting to separate, no dimpling on the playfield. Perhaps Stern should evaluate where they went wrong with production 38 years later.

I only took the time to type this because I care, and I'm really looking for a MET right now. These issues have some bearing on my hesitation to buy now.

image (resized).jpg

image (resized).jpg

image (resized).jpg

Don't hesitate on the MET. one of the best Stern games out there.
PS. No you can't buy my MET. Don't ask.

Definitely...haha. We've had a few come through the store, and a few buddies of mine have it. Really like the art on MOPLE, but don't want to spend that much. IMO, MET is one of the few games where I truly believe (even after playing LE and Prems) that the Pro is good enough.

in the period 2001- 2012 THEY ALSO manufactured the most pins.... (WITH LESS ISSUES).

I wanted to buy Ghostbusters, but personally I can not spend $7000 to $8000 on any product that have these kind of problems. I want all Pinball companies to succeed. But when I have 7 Bally/Williams that are over thirty years with none of the issues that Stern is having with some of their current machines, that's a problem.

It's the principle, not the money. These are very expensive machines to some people I guess. But I am surprised when people complain on Pinside about Stern quality issues that they are usually slammed. It's like there is a free pass when it comes to accountability for Pinball.

I wish I could upvote your post a thousand times.

Hence I said "MOST" people. I agree with your second sentence all the way!

What!!!!

Pinside is real world baby

Don't buy it.

Pinball is a crappy, commercial product, that is not intended for the faint of heart nor those without decent mechanical repair skills.

When I do route repairs for operators, I see such terrible repair attempts that I wonder if kids today even know which way to turn a screw or which direction gravity works in their town.

That's because you are forgetting that your 30+ year old games have already been serviced 100s of times before you got it.

The cab corners have certainly been reglued.

The regulators have been replaced with higher amp parts.

Guards have been added to MM and F14 to keep the balls from becoming stuck in many different places that were apparently unknown to the factory.

Fuses were added to magnets and rectifiers to keep the games from actually catching fire.

Fishpaper has been added to keep the coin door from shorting out the switch matrix.

Back in the day, we could NEVER just unbox a game on location and expect it to earn.

It would always have to "burn-in" at the shop for a day or so, be tweaked, repaired, fused, and then deployed.

That depends on how you count issues. Does one bad playfield equal one bad hammer board in Metallica? Does a split cabinet count the same as needing an airball protector kit in Transformers? It's probably all the same number of issues as ever. It's just that the current ones are a bit more difficult to fix than install a new board, and a piece of plastic.

(And yes, even saying this I really want to buy AC/DC)

Why buy when you can wait, let someone else take the risk and fix all the issues, then pick up a HUO later for cheaper?

Sterns made right with any issue I've had with their NIB games (*knock on wood I haven't had any serious ones*). I wonder if stern would go to bat for me if I bought a HUO that looked flawless then started having issues later?

Hey!

There is less and less real wood in a Stern. Pretty soon you'll have to knock on something else...

Actually you'd better not knock on a modern Stern...it might make the cabinet separate.

Boooooo.

Sorry Flash for stealing your old code logo but I couldn't resist modding it just a tad to fit this thread. We need a new T-shirt

wood (resized).jpg

Gary Stern hasn't had wood in ages.

I think at the price point they are at that they won't sell as many as they could. I like the game and how it plays and would like to buy one but at $9500 shipped. Just to much for one game right now.

No one's forcing you to buy an LE. Standard is $8000, and worth every penny.

It's tough to buy a game that feels de-contented for $8000. Just because it's less than $9500 doesn't mean it's any kind of bargain.

My statement is the same at $8500 shipped. If your going to spend $8500 you might as well get the complete package at $9500. I still think that they are going to lose sales at the price point of these games, worth it or not.

What are you talking about? This isn't Stern where they take away game features if you don't pay up. The Dialed In Standard/LE differences are cosmetic. The actual games are the same.

And if you think "well, only a thousand more" to LE, then you have enough to afford an LE. The price point for the game is $8000. If you want it to look real nice, it's more. Simple as that.

When you get to the $8500k pricing level it does become only a $1k more scenario. If it is $5k then a $1k difference is more substantial to the overall price.

When you can get a JJP pin for $5200 then it would be comparable to Stern.

This is a premium/LE comparison.

And its NOT an "LE" in any way shape or form with a hopeful 2500 "LE"s being run. Sales will be 1,000 or so anyhow.

You're missing the point. If you are struggling to get $8000 together, it's NOT "only 1k more" because it's not possible or very difficult to make that additional leap. So if you are thinking "only 1k more" you can afford 1k more. Different circumstances.

BTW, I only paid 9k flat, delivered, but I preordered at reveal.

You seem to have upped your sales estimates over time.

And given that you haven't actually played the game, your assessment is pretty hilarious. It's a premium game experience in the WoZ vein. Stern, Heighway, Spooky, AP, etc, have nothing even close to it currently.

I think what they are saying is their aren't going to be to many people that are "struggling to get $8K together" that should be buying an $8K machine that can't easily add another $1K to a purchase. If you are spending that much money on a pinball machine you should readily have $8K laying around and for those people another $1K is like asking if they want to supersize their Big mac meal.

I watched a lot of you tube video!

I've said around 1,000, but i wouldn't be surprised if its less.

When you say Stern has "nothing close to it", I don't know how you can even make that claim. Stern has some GREAT pins out right now.

I'd never consider DI over my TWD, GB, BM66 or AS LE's for theme alone. I play pinball for fun and those pins are a blast (BM66 pending Lyman).

At the end of the day, PRICING and UNLICENSED THEME are going to stunt those sales. For the people that buy it, I'm sure they'll love it.

I highly doubt people will be jumping up and down saying "I ONLY paid $9k flat"

Nobody said anything about a struggle. My point is the value at $8k, $8500, $9k, or $9500 isn't there for a lot of people therefore sales will not be as many then if they hit a better price point.

Again, you haven't PLAYED the GAME. I've played it (repeatedly) and every modern Stern pin except maybe Rolling Stones (is that modern Stern? Seems like the end of their crappier era). Literally nothing compares to the experience with Dialed In. It's in a class by itself. You may not like the THEME, but as a pin with features, polish and build quality taken together, nothing touches it.

I think the reason you see a buyers market for pins developing because a LOT of people are selling pins to finance these new pins coming up.

Not to defend anyone or take sides but I've played DI several times and quite frankly it bores me. Not saying it is a bad game but diffidently different strokes for different folks. If DI and GBLE or ASLE were the same price and I could afford one I would buy GB or AS. Knowing the price different it would make it easy but both JJP and Stern have now priced me out of NIB as I don't find the value in games of that cost anymore. I bought GOTLE and absolutely love it but that is when I started to realize that these things aren't worth the cost anymore, to me.

I thought I was the only one in that boat. I played it at Allentown and didn't like it at all. Not only is the theme bad, but I think the ball is visible maybe 30% of the time? There's lots to do I guess but wow I just wasn't feeling it.

Watched a video last night where the shot to the center dropped the ball SDTM almost every time. Hope they fix this.

Not the best players that's for sure but man that center shot is a joke.

You mean the theatre shot, missed? Maybe it wasn't leveled properly? This never happened to me personally, and the outlanes are far less abusive than KISS and Aerosmith.

You don't have to rationalize. You PLAYED IT and didn't like it. That's cool. Every pin is not for everyone. I'm still not a big fan of Aerosmith and prefer KISS for that layout. Preference is by nature subjective. But you arrived at that once you had your hands on one.