(Topic ID: 186114)

Sterns new cabinets...

By daddyxxx

4 years ago


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    There are 2136 posts in this topic. You are on page 28 of 43.
    #1351 4 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    They are making their own cabinets. It's been covered here when they started.
    LTG : )

    I guess that explains why the cabinet wood is softer and/or less dense on the AS and Batman pins. Hidden cost cutting that's going to bite them. I wouldn't have known if I hadn't had a KISS to compare the screw bite to.

    #1352 4 years ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    I guess that explains why the cabinet wood is softer and/or less dense on the AS and Batman pins. Hidden cost cutting that's going to bite them. I wouldn't have known if I hadn't had a KISS to compare the screw bite to.

    This is the first report I've heard of the wood not being as dense on newer cabinets. It's possible that this is affecting all newer games or it could be just be a one off. Will report back how the cabinet is on my new Ghostbusters Premium once I get it.

    If the cabinet wood is softer it likely means that more moisture is in it.

    #1353 4 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    They are making their own cabinets. It's been covered here when they started.
    LTG : )

    LTG Please post the link.

    I've seen posts that they've moved on to other cabinet suppliers than CGC, that they now have two suppliers, and such. Never seen a post saying Stern took it in-house. I did a search with no luck.

    #1354 4 years ago

    I really hope this issue will be sorted with the STRWRS release!

    My GBLE corners are fine, and my new playfield arrives next week

    #1355 4 years ago

    What size screws are people using with the Williams brackets? Thanks.

    #1356 4 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Playfields I believe. Stern last year moved into doing their own cabinets and playfields. Though I believe CGC started doing them again.
    LTG : )

    So that is obviously the problem.

    #1357 4 years ago
    Quoted from cireone:

    What size screws are people using with the Williams brackets? Thanks.

    I used #8 1/2" sheet metal screws.

    #1358 4 years ago
    Quoted from PanzerFreak:

    This is the first report I've heard of the wood not being as dense on newer cabinets. It's possible that this is affecting all newer games or it could be just be a one off. Will report back how the cabinet is on my new Ghostbusters Premium once I get it.
    If the cabinet wood is softer it likely means that more moisture is in it.

    Someone else here (I don't remember who) also posted that they thought that the wood felt softer when they installed the B/W brackets. I was just fortunate that I had a launch KISS, AS, and BM'66 to compare. KISS cabinet wood feels more substantial when screwing in the brackets. More bite.

    #1359 4 years ago
    Quoted from cireone:

    What size screws are people using with the Williams brackets? Thanks.

    I used 3/4" #8 with double #8 stainless washers to make sure it didn't bulge out the other side while still getting in deep enough to have the most wood to grab.

    #1360 4 years ago
    Quoted from smassa:

    Lol at the people who think stern makes cabinets.

    Why be a dick like that, even if you were right? You weren't, but why?

    #1361 4 years ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    Someone else here (I don't remember who) also posted that they thought that the wood felt softer when they installed the B/W brackets. I was just fortunate that I had a launch KISS, AS, and BM'66 to compare. KISS cabinet wood feels more substantial when screwing in the brackets. More bite.

    Yep that was me. I'm no carpenter by any stretch. Glad I'm not the only one who noticed the "softer" wood on the latest Sterns. I put a small dab of Titebond 3 on every single screw just to be sure. When lifting these machines you really get a feel for how heavy they are. The fact that Stern is trying to cut corners on these cabs is mind blowing.

    #1362 4 years ago
    Quoted from thundergod76:

    Yep that was me. I'm no carpenter by any stretch. Glad I'm not the only one who noticed the "softer" wood on the latest Sterns. I put a small dab of Titebond 3 on every single screw just to be sure. When lifting these machines you really get a feel for how heavy they are. The fact that Stern is trying to cut corners on these cabs is mind blowing.

    Good idea with the titebond 3. I'll keep that in mind for future reinforcements. Hopefully Stern decides to spend $19.32 more per cabinet and goes back to using the Churchill type CLEARLY better wood for cabs again. They're asking for long-term much more expensive trouble by cutting this corner.

    #1363 4 years ago
    Quoted from PinMonk:

    Good idea with the titebond 3. I'll keep that in mind for future reinforcements. Hopefully Stern decides to spend $19.32 more per cabinet and goes back to using the Churchill type CLEARLY better wood for cabs again. They're asking for long-term much more expensive trouble by cutting this corner.

    Why would they. The next game is probably Star Wars and that shit could be made of cardboard, but the Star Wars guys will buy it, without a doubt.

    #1364 4 years ago
    Quoted from Roostking:

    Why would they. The next game is probably Star Wars and that shit could be made of cardboard, but the Star Wars guys will buy it, without a doubt.

    Because replacements and warranty claims for cabinets falling apart on location and in homes are unattractive and will be more of a pain than playfield swaps.

    #1365 4 years ago
    Quoted from emkay:

    Why be a dick like that, even if you were right? You weren't, but why?

    I am right....Stern is NOT making their own cabinets.

    -1
    #1366 4 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    They are making their own cabinets. It's been covered here when they started.
    LTG : )

    Sorry, I respect your opinion on a lot of things but you are wrong on this one.

    #1367 4 years ago
    Quoted from smassa:

    Sorry, I respect your opinion on a lot of things but you are wrong on this one.

    They were gearing up for it. Don't know what happened.

    LTG : )

    #1368 4 years ago

    CGC making cabinets.

    http://www.pinballnews.com/learn/churchill/index.html

    I had also heard that stern was attempting to make their own cabinets and playfields in house but do not know to what extent.
    Its possible that the defective cabinets and playfields were part of this experiment.
    I also dont know if that endeavor was successful or discontinued, but I heard that the idea is either on hold or under review.

    #1369 4 years ago
    Quoted from cireone:

    What size screws are people using with the Williams brackets? Thanks.

    You really should use #10 screws, they fit in the holes perfectly with no slop. That way you have the clamping force AND no slop in the holes for any side to side or up and down movement cus it's metal on metal. 3/4 inch long with a washer AND a lock washer works perfect.

    #1370 4 years ago

    After seeing this, when I inspect a Stern pin I am wanting to buy,
    I will be lifting up the table and looking in the corners..
    If I see ANY separation of cabinet, I will offer 1,000.00 less than the asking price.
    Only fair..

    #1371 4 years ago
    Quoted from limelime20:

    After seeing this, when I inspect a Stern pin I am wanting to buy,
    I will be lifting up the table and looking in the corners..
    If I see ANY separation of cabinet, I will offer 1,000.00 less than the asking price.
    Only fair..

    1k less?

    I would just walk away. Who needs that kind of aggravation?

    #1372 4 years ago
    Quoted from limelime20:

    After seeing this, when I inspect a Stern pin I am wanting to buy,
    I will be lifting up the table and looking in the corners..
    If I see ANY separation of cabinet, I will offer 1,000.00 less than the asking price.
    Only fair..

    Alternatively, enthusiasts can fix games.
    That is what collectors do for titles that want to maintain the titles.
    A person that owns enough games eventually has to learn to restore cabinets at some point anyway or have someone do it for them.

    Unless the splitting is highly visible and severely cracked on the outside or completely delaminated, the value reduction is minimal, if the rest of the game is solid.
    If a game looks "rocked" there is no doubt on that there should be price reduction considerations, but that is part of the technical inspection process when people buy games in the first place.
    Cabinet separation, dry rot, splitting, cracks, etc happen whether age or condition.
    Pinball machines have never really been made to high grade furniture standards.

    If there is one this that can be learned from this thread is there are buying aspects to observe with cabinets, backglasses, playfields, mechanics, and electronics if applicable.
    Stern has provided a bit of education to the community, albeit in a very hard lesson to NIB owners who cannot see what is in the cardboard box.
    They can provide any type of "cabinet repair kit" they want for new owners, but it does not change the fundamental of what happened.

    This has been unfortunate.

    18076846_452900201719182_1159070017969693605_o (resized).jpg

    #1373 4 years ago

    Played a Aerosmith pro on location tonight and the left side is separating. Right side looked fine. I obviously couldn't look under the lockdown bar. I'll try to get a picture next time I'm there during the day.

    #1374 4 years ago
    Quoted from Mike_J:

    1k less?
    I would just walk away. Who needs that kind of aggravation?

    Agreed, if you a buying used, have plenty of choices of the title, why would you want to deal with any known defects.

    #1375 4 years ago

    Disappointing
    Certainly a poor design/build flaw
    Its easy to see looking at the joint, that even basic nudging will separate the corners (
    To rub salt in it F's up the decals as well !
    Another sad day indeed
    C'mon Stern

    #1376 4 years ago

    With my GB and AS the decals don't wrap around so the cracks are only in the black painted part - much easier to fix. Not much consolation but a little

    #1377 4 years ago

    Played an Aerosmith pro on location last week. Both front corners were separating and cracked. Too bad it's a fun game.

    #1378 4 years ago
    Quoted from Jimmyd044:

    Played an Aerosmith pro on location last week. Both front corners were separating and cracked. Too bad it's a fun game.

    Agreed, it is a great game.

    If Stern learns how to build a pinball machine they may really be on to something,

    #1379 4 years ago

    I'm hoping the quality on Houdini, Dialed In, and others is very high - nothing like competition to force you to improve your quality

    #1380 4 years ago

    Recently purchased met premium split on the left side, Dec 2016 build date. Easy fix, but still some kind of issue going on.

    #1381 4 years ago
    Quoted from cireone:

    What size screws are people using with the Williams brackets? Thanks.

    Did your GB cab split or are you just protecting it?

    #1382 4 years ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    I'm hoping the quality on Houdini, Dialed In, and others is very high - nothing like competition to force you to improve your quality

    So true. Imagine the crap Stern would be producing if they had zero competition.

    #1383 4 years ago
    Quoted from cosmokramer:

    Did your GB cab split or are you just protecting it?

    No split, just trying to be proactive.

    Thanks for the replies everyone!

    #1384 4 years ago

    I wanna see that fart blaster in action

    11
    #1385 4 years ago

    In case anyone doubts cabinet construction from the past.
    A manufacturer does not need to invent a repair kit, just do the job right the first time.
    I do not advocate this testing process.

    #1386 4 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    In case anyone doubts cabinet construction from the past.
    A manufacturer does not need to invent a repair kit, just do the job right the first time.
    I do not advocate this testing process.

    And I still don't think that cabinet cracked after everything they just did to it! But don't lightly nudge a new Stern or drag it on the carpet with gliders...

    #1387 4 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    I do not advocate this testing process.
    » YouTube video

    Great video (even if a bit poor quality). I'm guessing someone at Stern saw this and said to themselves... "Now we have video proof that there is plenty of margin for cost savings, since cabinets are clearly being over-built these days."

    #1388 4 years ago
    Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

    In case anyone doubts cabinet construction from the past.
    A manufacturer does not need to invent a repair kit, just do the job right the first time.
    I do not advocate this testing process.
    » YouTube video

    I saw that video in the other thread and thought what a firestorm it might start comparing Williams to Stern cabinets so I let it slide.

    #1389 4 years ago

    Other than the pictures of split cabinets there isn't much in the way of facts in this thread, it worries me with my three less than a year old Stern pinball machines.

    1: Stern allegedly made their own cabinets for some period of time. I see no evidence to support this, i've watched pretty much every single factory video posted on facebook and youtube and I've been to the factory personally and there is zero evidence of in house cabinet making. In fact during the visit to stern they were definitely taking delivery of cabinets (this was last year during expo).

    If its true that they started making cabinets, please post evidence and dates.

    2: Stern then changed back to CGC cabinets. When and why? Please post evidence and dates.

    3: The pictures of split cabinets, what would be really useful is the date of manufacture which is on the serial number on the back. Which would help focus to either prove points 1 and 2 above or not.

    Stern aren't perfect and the play field issue wasn't great but lets try and help figure this out rather than just whinge about it.

    Thanks,
    Neil.

    #1390 4 years ago

    Already posted but GB was 12/13/2016 and AS 3/9/2017

    #1391 4 years ago

    Lets see how many people try and resell their new cabinet stern sends them as a replacement for the split one. Ive already seen one for sale by someone who said his was split and stern sent him a new one, but he decided to leave it. He was asking 700 for the new gb pro cab.

    #1392 4 years ago
    Quoted from Dr-Willy:

    Lets see how many people try and resell their new cabinet stern sends them as a replacement for the split one. Ive already seen one for sale by someone who said his was split and stern sent him a new one, but he decided to leave it. He was asking 700 for the new gb pro cab.

    I saw that too. I was wondering how he managed to get the GB cab.

    #1393 4 years ago

    I'd like to see this cabinet and see what if anything Stern did to improve them.

    10
    #1394 4 years ago

    I don't want or expect a replacement cabinet. It would take way too long to swap out components and you can hardly tell anyway. I'd like an acknowledgement of the problem and a fix for future buyers

    #1395 4 years ago
    Quoted from wtatumjr:

    I'd like an acknowledgement of the problem and a fix for future buyers

    from Stern ? good luck with that. it would be nice, no doubt.

    they didnt do it with the playfields, why start with the good customer service/focus now ?

    #1396 4 years ago
    Quoted from wtatumjr:

    I don't want or expect a replacement cabinet. It would take way too long to swap out components and you can hardly tell anyway. I'd like an acknowledgement of the problem and a fix for future buyers

    With the new spike system it wouldn't take as long as you think.

    #1397 4 years ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    Other than the pictures of split cabinets there isn't much in the way of facts in this thread, it worries me with my three less than a year old Stern pinball machines.
    1: Stern allegedly made their own cabinets for some period of time. I see no evidence to support this, i've watched pretty much every single factory video posted on facebook and youtube and I've been to the factory personally and there is zero evidence of in house cabinet making. In fact during the visit to stern they were definitely taking delivery of cabinets (this was last year during expo).
    If its true that they started making cabinets, please post evidence and dates.
    2: Stern then changed back to CGC cabinets. When and why? Please post evidence and dates.
    3: The pictures of split cabinets, what would be really useful is the date of manufacture which is on the serial number on the back. Which would help focus to either prove points 1 and 2 above or not.
    Stern aren't perfect and the play field issue wasn't great but lets try and help figure this out rather than just whinge about it.
    Thanks,
    Neil.

    While having all the evidence and dates you're asking for would be nice, Stern never has (and likely never will) release this type of information. And they are the only people it could ever come from. There are all kinds of rumors for what went on where. FUN playfields, a second manufacturer of cabinets, in house cabinets (which would NEVER be in the same building because of the dust!). But the will make sure we never know the answer.

    The best part? Stern knows the exact answer to where your defective parts came from. Did you have a ghosted playfield? Stern knows exactly where and when it was made. Defective cabinet? They know it's entire lifecycle. They are the only people with the real info to answer the questions.

    #1398 4 years ago
    Quoted from smassa:

    With the new spike system it wouldn't take as long as you think.

    You're probably correct. I was absolutely amazed at the lack of stuff under the playfield on AS and GB especially compared to WOZ. But somehow the stuff that IS there works really good and is sufficient to run the many switches and lights needed. I'm all for progress - new pins have 20 wires where it took 200 in the old days (thanks Mr. Diode) but I wish Stern would put the wood back in my pin...or switch to some fancy carbon fiber.

    #1399 4 years ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    I'm hoping the quality on Houdini, Dialed In, and others is very high - nothing like competition to force you to improve your quality

    Stern's response to competition has been to release more machines, whilst selectively increasing fixed costs (art, and LCD animation on Aerosmith) that increase perceived quality, whilst savagely cutting variable - i.e. per unit - costs (cabinet, playfields, lockdown bar, service rails, SPIKE). Though they're also cheaping out badly on some fixed costs too ... some machines are being released poorly engineered with too little testing (GB & BM'66), layouts are being rehashed, and there's plenty of code abandonment.

    Ultimately, they're offering an open door to JJP, and other potential high volume competitors; CGC, AP & HomePin, maybe Spooky. They might be rolling in the profits generated by their obscene and unsustainable cost cutting in the short term, but the day is soon coming when Stern will be making a minority of pinball machines produced. Their actions will lose them many thousands of sales in the long run, and ensure that the market grows more slowly than it could, whilst their market share falls more swiftly. They're establishing a really shitty reputation, and it's going to be very hard for them to shake it.

    #1400 4 years ago

    It's only when working on games that all the changes over the years become more apparent.

    Sopranos 2005.

    Took the boat ramp off and it is built like a tank, 1000's of plays. Playfield outhole - zero wear, 12 years on.

    For me the best quality Sterns were circa 2004 - 2007.

    IMG_1408 (resized).JPG

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