This thread. Have you not been reading it? lol

I used 1/2 inch screws with a socket head. There are 6 per bracket so I think that is adequate. Be careful not to over torque. No need for pilot holes. Make sure the screws have the girth enough to almost fill up the B/W bracket holes. You can use 3/4 inch but I'd add a washer to space it a bit.

I have 33 Sterns no current issues, both JJP pins , THSE currently watching the front joints , maybe an issue, SWDE total
restore from Teckman , worked with HEP , is incredible. It appears these issues represent only a small % of Sterns production. Call your distributor.

Those quotes are basically from Panzerfreak in the only last few weeks and only from this thread, with the oldest being 23 days old. Here's what he posted today.

, ,
LOL at that huge bipolar swing, and all in the span of a few weeks. Talk about mental whiplash. He can't even be consistent with his own self, let alone what he posts on pinside. Nothing new.

Lmao.....this is a good candidate for post of the year!

You are the one with the problem by digging through weeks of my posting history, only picking out what helps prove whatever point you are trying to make and then harassing me over and over again.

As I said earlier in the Aerosmith thread to Who-Dey I have noticed a slow down in reports of cabinet splitting issues which may mean that the issue has been corrected by Stern. Reports by owners are the only source customers have to go off of.

What you just did though is rude and is probably the worst form of harassment on Pinside I've seen. I hope you get help.

I stand by everything I previously said. Cabinet issues are ridiculous on $5k-$15k games and should not be on peoples minds when buying a new pinball machine in 2017.

It is a hilarious pinside defense to literally blame people who actually pay attention to one's posts. LOL. Good one .

I see you've attacked me again to try to deflect from your plainly posted history. At least you are consistent.

So, not only a flip from one extreme to the complete opposite, but now a two week slow down is enough of a change/reason for you to do that as well?! That's rather eye-opening, shall we say.

Go for whatever diameter screw will fit in the holes, looks like a 10 or 12. That way the bracket will be pushing directly on the metal if the cab moves. With a smaller diameter screw your just depending on the clamping force of the screw to keep the cab from moving. With a larger diameter screw both forces are keeping your cab from moving.

Seriously what is your problem? Trolling and personal attacks from yourself, Who-Dey, and Iceman against members are among the worst I've ever seen on Pinside in the nearly 8 years I've been a member of this site. I don't typically ignore fellow members but I'll make an exception for you 3. Good bye, have fun arguing with each other.

Panzer lol ........oh man dude, if you had any idea how hard I am laughing right now! Dude just buy the pin that you want whether it be GB or Aerosmith. It will be fine man for real, just go buy the game you want and have fun!!

We are not harassing you and we also are not laughing at you, we are laughing with you!

One last post for ya, just as an FYI. You have 239 down votes in this thread alone. You may want to consider a new approach and not try to insult and attack so many members.

Being a Bengals fan I'm sure you hear that quite a bit.

That would require using some reason and common sense Banker and I feel that is asking a bit too much here

33 for 33. Congrats

I'm not attacking anyone. It's not my fault that you cant take a joke Panzer lol. As far as the down votes, who cares? If someone wants to down vote me for having a valid opinion then go for it! Also you are getting on dzoomer for keeping such close tabs on you but yet you counted every down vote that I have received in this thread alone lol? That's hilarious.....

No not really, not in the last 10-11 years anyway

Lol...you have over 60 posts in this thread...

Yeah I know, I let the stern haters bring out the worst in me. It's all good though because I'm done fighting with them.

Attack like that and I have to respond. You have a history of extremism (just look at all the quoted posts) and it's more of the same here.

Nice spin. It's not trolling. People post and people discuss those posts. Is this a shocking thing that people read and discuss your posts? Maybe you don't realize it, but extreme behaviors, posts and swings captures people's attention. And on a forum that is all about talking and understanding pinball, such things will probably be talked about.

As for personal attacks, I love that Pinside locks posts. It was actually you who personally attacked and belittled me for simply pointing out that while there were more cabinet issues happening than normal, we didn't have enough information yet to see how significant it was. And that was in the middle of me saying that there was a cabinet issue, sympathizing with those affected, and saying it should and needs to be fixed by Stern. Attacked/belittled by you for that, of all things.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sterns-new-cabinets/page/20#post-3729913
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sterns-new-cabinets/page/20#post-3729930

You downvoted me on that exchange to the point of literally getting a temporary downvote block, then two days later when the temp ban ended you went back and added more downvotes. Not surprisingly, you do the same serial downvoting in this exchange; I haven't even bothered with it this time.

It is you doing the personal attacks and trying to smear me. Just like this.

you cared about your down votes alright.

liar, liar... pants on FIRE !!!

If anyone's interested, I tallied about 15 cabinets reported from owners themselves, and another 7 Pinsiders reporting issues on routed machines.
So seems as though we're looking at about 25 cases, according to the World of Pinside.

In my opinion, the most important thing is finding out if Stern will be correcting the issue. To me, receiving a split cabinet is simply unacceptable.

Having said that, we now have more than 25 pages of posts. We have multiple explanations of the problem, and suggestions that Stern doesn't care about the issue. We have an historic recollection that Stern pins have apparently always been of poor quality. We have multiple personal attacks, and we have insults aimed at anyone who might consider buying a NIB from Stern. We have multiple speculators pointing the finger directly at Stern for purposefully reducing the BOM in order to save $.

I would like to suggest to Robin and the moderators that when someone has a QC issue to report, that they pin the thread, and only have those experiencing the issue allowed to post ONE post only with the problem, and subsequent posts with any resolutions, or an update stating a lack thereof.

Enough with making a mountain out of a molehill. Let’s get facts listed properly. Let’s display how things are being handled by Stern. Let’s make it easy to see exactly how many people are having issues. Let’s reduce the back and forth arguing between people who most likely would enjoy playing pinball together. Let’s provide clear information, allowing people to make their own, informed decisions, and reduce the useless animosity -the worst thing about this site. Heck, it might even provide some helpful info to Stern, themselves!

For the record, I tallied the following Pinsiders as owners with issues (though truly, I think the vast majority of people on here have issues!):

daddyxxx
Rasavage
spida1a
Msch
Buzz
thundergod76
bellbrand
Gov
wtatumjr
pindude80
ragekage
Spelink71
Gryszzz (2014 build date)
inhomearcades
rock914

And I tallied the following people as having reported route games with issues:

daddyxxx: “two different people”
TaylorVA
Wolfmarsh “pictures of games on route”
jar155 “personally seen several cabinets in person with the issue”
T-800 “AS at a bowling alley”
usandthem “Pinball Pete’s”
Ed209 (8bit arcades)

Why do I have a question mark after my name? LOL

Sorry bout that. I had marked it that way after reading your first post. Wasn't certain if you had a confirmed issue.
Added your name though as it was later confirmed.

T-800 Are you talking about Tony's Aerosmith at Sun Ray? Did you look at his Ghostbusters? I was going to look, but haven't been up there. I'm curious. I'll be up there on Sat. for the tournament and I can take off the lock down bars and take a look.

Good idea!

Don't cheap out by using flimsy corner brackets, especially those crappy HD L braces.

Playstar corners have been used for years and will provide incredible strength without spending a fortune in costs.
Basically about $10 per corner, not counting the WMS HD leg plates.
Use double gussets if there is existing severe splitting.
Double the braces if an owner is really concerned by placing another brace and gusset about halfway down the side of the cabinet.

Remove the leg from the game completely and put the game up on a double sawhorse or pinball dolly PERPENDICULAR to the cabinet direction, as this take the weight off the leg bolt holes.
Apply industrial strength clear epoxy to the cracked joint.
Amount of glue is dependent on damage, but do not overuse.
Use corner clamps with terry towels for protection on the outside for centering and position for maximum strength of the braces to hold the epoxy in place.
This is very important to ensure you get a good solid seal and bond.
Install WMS HD leg plate.
Recheck the clamps.
Install the leg.
Install the braces.
Tighten the leg to the game to be used as an additional clamp.
Keep the game up in the air for at least an hour, but is entirely dependent on glue used.
Allow the epoxy to dry overnight.
Do not use wood putty or other non strength bonding material.
Wood putty equivalencies are for finish jobs and aesthetics before touch of crack painting, not repair work for strength.
Use 3/4" Round head phillips wood screws for braces and the leg plate, but still check for any protrusions during installation.
The 3/4" screw depth is the offset proper length by the brace, gusset, and leg plate metal thickness.
Predrill all holes with a depth limiter.
Check condition of rear leg holes as well for added stability, tolerance is easier for the back of the cabinet.

Cabinet is "bulletproofed" and will never come apart again.
The cabinet will outlive the owner unless it is dropped out a window.

Inside corner brace PS 1011:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/PlayStar-Commercial-Grade-Inside-Corner-Bracket-PS-1011/203294607

Gusset PS 1019:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/PlayStar-Commercial-Grade-Gusset-PS-1019/203294611?MERCH=REC-_-PIPHorizontal1_rr-_-203294607-_-203294611-_-N

The photo below denotes the brace (inner), brace (outer) and gusset.
Only the inner brace and gusset is used for pinball cabinets.

Good fortune.

e2e2367a-b5b9-4d80-aab0-f32221d8ad7e_1000 (resized).jpg

Are you saying you should use that bracket by itself or in addition to the Bally/Williams leg bolt braces?

Your directing this to Stern - right?

FWIW, I've seen 2 unreported cabinet issues over the past week. One on Kiss and one on GB. Not everyone is on Pinside.

So far we're up to what 25-30 cabinets affected? In the grand scheme it's a small number. BUT...this is still too many IMO. That being said I think Stern should replace every damn cabinet affected. We're not talking thousands here. They can afford it and its the right thing to do. If that isn't feasible for them then why not offer those affected some free toppers or armor for their machines?

Just so it's not later assumed I'm talking out of my ass, I snapped only a quick photo of the Kiss. If I was able to get the phone a bit more to the left, I would've been able to show the sliver of bare wood I could see. But at least you can see the resulting misalignment of the star.
IMG_1746 (resized).JPG

What does the joint look like under the lock bar?

Just in case it matters the build date on my GB was 12/13/2016 and 3/9/2017 for AS

Don't forget that epoxy is a weak glue on wood, especially on Spruce (that's what pinball cabs are made of).

Pinball cabs are already a weak design, so it's important to use a strong glue: Titebond III

epoxy-crap (resized).png

So 25-30 cabinets, of pinball owners, who are members of this forum. So what about the other 95+% of pinball owners who are not members of this forum? What happens to those other 500+ people with defective cabinets?

ANY reputable company with this issue would issue a Technical Service Bulletin to have owners inspect their cabinets for this type of defect and then proceed from there. THIS company, sweeps it under the rug and continues to mass produce defective and incomplete products.

And you know this but yet you just forked over 5200 for an AS Pro last week and you're on here bitching about it. Really???

How's your cabinet holding up btw?

Why I spent a very, very small portion of MY money on AS Pro is simply none of your f-ing business. And while mine is currently problem free, others have not been as lucky. Luck should not play a part in a consumer goods purchase.

With every new title, comes a whole new set of problems in the quality of the products from this company. That's a fact. Just because you have not personally suffered from these defects in material and/or workmanship, does not mean that hundreds, or possibly thousands of other people haven't. They paid the same money you did. They are entitled to better.

And you have absolutely NO IDEA how many games have been affected by any number of issues in the last few titles. I don't care how many people you ask. I've only personally seen 3 GB playfields, and all 3 had ghosted inserts, but that doesn't make it a 100% failure rate.

Those are facts. Stop defending the indefensible. Cheerlead in the club threads, not in the threads discussing REAL problems that REAL people are having.

You two should get a room.

I haven't seen any new people with corner problems. This is a very good sign. Owner's do need to check every time you play for a while. A small crack is easier to repair.

When I was referring to epoxy glues, I am not referring to standard resins that you find at hardware stores.
I did not want to turn my posting into an advanced carpentry class.

As vid1900 stated basic resin epoxy is not designed for wood due to porous surfaces, moisture, fiber separation, dry rot, saps, oils, existing glue residues, and contaminants because you cannot get inside the crack very well to clean a pinball cabinet crack anyway.
An owner needs to use a specialized wood epoxy designed for furniture.
You have to make them properly as well, as they never come premixed.
I inject them using a large syringe after mixing so there is reduced overflow.

I can give several recommendations offline with additional details.
However, these epoxy glues are not cheap, but have extremely strong surface tensile bonds for hard and soft woods including Spruce.
They even repair and fill corner rotting near legs holes by getting deep into the wood fibers in older cabinets which is awesome instead of having to replace entire panels.

If a person does not want spend money, just use industrial wood glue whether Gorilla, Titebond, or Elmer's.
To me this seems contradictory if people want spend huge $$$ on mods for their games, and give even more $$$ to hand over their game for a high end restoration, but not buy the higher end products to protect the physical construction or repair of games.

No way that is Stern's quality issues, looks like that game is on carpet, or dropped in shipping, or nudged too hard, or abused, or or or or

HA!

or maybe recent earthquake activity in the area.

Probably termites.

We brought back 4 newer Sterns and a Gottlieb Bad Girls from Allentown...mostly for friends. One of those Sterns was unboxed at the show.

4 games had split seams..one did not. Wanna guess which one didn't?

Hint: It wasn't a Stern

Jesus, what the heck is going on

I'd add the B/W brackets (or similar) first thing to a new Stern. They are cheap insurance and easy to install. I even think they look rather nice.

When you see the difference between the B/W braces and the tiny ones Stern uses its amazing their cabinets are in one piece by the time they're delivered.

We are in a laboratory experiment that is trying to determine how far cost cutting can go. Apparently the lab rats don't like the manufacturers cost savings provided by using less expensive playfield manufacturing, and they also don't like cabinetry that fails to function as a cabinet. So those need to go back up just above the "massive failure" point, and that's not cheap, so expect a price bump.