Quoted from Who-Dey:I'm not a stern fan boy at all
HA, just re-read every post you made in this thread....
Biggest Fanboy Ever
(Topic ID: 186114)
London
Stern need to publicly acknowledge the problem, fix it, then confirm and prove they have fixed it. Ditto their other QC problems. Then I'll buy NIB from them again. It's not a permanent 'no buy', but it is currently in place for me at least.
Come on Stern, lift your game. That is all we want from you. We want you to succeed. I am in no way a Stern basher, but bottomline, I won't buy crap at inflated prices.
New York, NY
Quoted from Trekie:This sounds like the auto industry back in the 70's. Bad QC and the little guys got a foot hold and became the major players.
This is such a horrible cargument.
The "little guys" were gigantic Japanese corporations with huge factories and distribution networks. Not dudes building cars out of their garages or churning out 1 car a week in small understaffed "factories"
There is not currently a single other pinball manufacturer in any kind of position to seize the market from Stern.
Quoted from Who-Dey:No its not like that at all. If there are legitimate flaws that is fine. You just have certain people on here that take every opportunity they can get to try and make things a far bigger issue than what they really are just to make Stern look bad and its BS.
Stern takes a lot of unnecessary flack from certain individuals on here and if anyone says anything in sterns favor those people bring the pitch forks out after you. Stern has their problems just like any other company does but they are also pretty good at making things right with their customers.
I'm not a stern fan boy at all and if they do something wrong I'll call them out on it just like I did on how they handled certain peoples playfield issues. I'm also going to give them credit for replacing peoples playfields like they're doing right now. Bottom line is they make great games and I feel that if I have a problem that they will make it right. They are a good company and they are the reason pinball is becoming big again and I'm going to support them because I love this hobby.
Per my post now many pages back, people are still in denial, just like they were about playfields last year, and to some extent early this year with the cratering (rather than dimpling) on early BM'66 playfields.
The usual chorus from the 'Stern Army' is getting really boring.
There are very clearly reasonably widespread issues compromising the structural integrity of recently built (last 18 months) Stern cabinets, with the frequency of said issues seemingly increasing significantly very recently. That isn't up for debate, nor is the fact that Stern cabinet build quality has become much lighter and cheaper over the years.
Denying that (again and again over dozens or hundreds of posts) is tantamount to trolling, and it would be nice to have some moderation in the threads effected.
Quoted from rubberducks:The usual chorus from the 'Stern Army' is getting really boring.
You know what else is getting boring?
The never ending deluge of carguments trying to frame pinball QC in terms of the auto industry. We get it. Cars.
People answering "which game should I buy?" Threads with "stern quality issues!"
People answering "stern game prediction" threads with "there will be ghosting!" "Humor."
People blowing stern QC issues way out of proportions while conviently ignoring those of other manufacturers, while pretending Williams games were all trouble free right out of the box.
People continuing to bitch about stern prices while ignoring the fact that they are still significantly cheaper than the competition.
People pretending there is an actual competitor to Stern, who stil has a stranglehold on the vast majority of the market.
So yes, there is lots of boring, repetitive stuff around here these days
Quoted from CrazyLevi:There is not currently a single other pinball manufacturer in any kind of position to seize the market from Stern.
This sounds so similar to the reaction to the iPhone - I think Steve Ballmer said almost the same exact thing!
Quoted from mountaingamer:This sounds so similar to the reaction to the iPhone - I think Steve Ballmer said almost the same exact thing!
Yeah, cause Samsung makes 4 phones a week out of their garage.
Phonegument is clearly apples and oranges.
Or wait, do I have this wrong and you are saying apple was the tiny, precocious upstart? Either way this makes no sense at all. Please reframe using cars.
Quoted from mountaingamer:This sounds so similar to the reaction to the iPhone - I think Steve Ballmer said almost the same exact thing!
I'm an Apple maniac too. I used to think the same thing you do about JJP years ago but I've given up on that idea, they don't make enough pins and they just can't compete at the lower level and like Levi says, the "build quality" issue is so overblown its nuts.i
The iphone comparison is nonsense.
My Woz is heavier to move, so what, I love to play my other Stern pins more now.
I hope JJP can eventually actually make and produce 2 pins a year with some great themes.
Btw, AMEN LEVI with that spot on post 
Quoted from Who-Dey:I'm not a stern fan boy at all and if they do something wrong I'll call them out on it just like I did on how they handled certain peoples playfield issues. I'm also going to give them credit for replacing peoples playfields like they're doing right now. Bottom line is they make great games and I feel that if I have a problem that they will make it right. They are a good company and they are the reason pinball is becoming big again and I'm going to support them because I love this hobby.
No offense, but people do brand you as a Stern Fanboy with obvious comments like the AS that wasn't setup, still on it's back, arrived with the cabinet split, the owner said the box was perfect and you say it was obviously damaged in shipping 
You're right they are handling people's PF replacements, but at a snail's pace.
I can't say they are a good company anymore, I wish I could, but I feel the same way as most, they are pumping games out as fast as they can, the games don't play smooth, design flaws that the customer ends up having to straighten out if even possible, code is questionable at best when games first hit the street, and there are obvious quality control issues that you downplay.
Those of us that have defective games have a right to be pissed and voice our opinions and people researching buying a new Stern game have the right to read what we write so they can make an informed decision on the $5k-$10k+ of their hard-earned money they are about to lay down for a NIB game.
Quoted from Who-Dey:Exactly and this thread has been nothing but crickets the past week, where are all the bad cabinets at haters???
It's people like these 25 or 30 on here that gives pinball a black eye, I really wish they'd find a new hobby if they hate this one so much. It's seriously pathetic, like you said....a 1% failure rate in cabinets WHICH THEY WILL REPLACE FOR PEOPLE and you got all these ********* (insert your own word) people on here coming out of the woodwork acting like every single cabinet is falling apart. Give me a frickin break!!!
I would like to see EVERYBODY on Pinside who has bought a new Stern in the last year or so to come on here and tell these haters that your cabinets ARE NOT FALLING APART and shut these people up once and for all. Nobody wants to speak up or get involved in fear of being hated on Pinside.....I say who cares what the haters think!
Dude take a breath!
Quoted from tacshose:You hear crickets because the same bullies who are constantly being moderated and downvoted all over pinside keep people from wanting to participate in any discussions.
Quoted from tacshose:You hear crickets because the same bullies who are constantly being moderated and downvoted all over pinside keep people from wanting to participate in any discussions.
A few of them might be on "vacation".
Quoted from tacshose:You hear crickets because the same bullies who are constantly being moderated and downvoted all over pinside keep people from wanting to participate in any discussions.
One of the upvotes on this post is quite ironic.
Quoted from tacshose:You hear crickets because the same bullies who are constantly being moderated and downvoted all over pinside keep people from wanting to participate in any discussions.
"You know what else is getting boring?
The never ending deluge of carguments trying to frame pinball QC in terms of the auto industry. We get it. Cars.
People answering "which game should I buy?" Threads with "stern quality issues!"
People answering "stern game prediction" threads with "there will be ghosting!" "Humor."
People blowing stern QC issues way out of proportions while conviently ignoring those of other manufacturers, while pretending Williams
games were all trouble free right out of the box.
People continuing to bitch about stern prices while ignoring the fact that they are still significantly cheaper than the competition.
People pretending there is an actual competitor to Stern, who stil has a stranglehold on the vast majority of the market.
So yes, there is lots of boring, repetitive stuff around here these days"
The STERN BULLIES are running rampant all over Pinside.
Especially the ones that just can't stand to hear anything POSITIVE about their experience with Stern and try and bully that down. 
Quoted from iceman44:"You know what else is getting boring?
The never ending deluge of carguments trying to frame pinball QC in terms of the auto industry. We get it. Cars.
People answering "which game should I buy?" Threads with "stern quality issues!"
People answering "stern game prediction" threads with "there will be ghosting!" "Humor."
People blowing stern QC issues way out of proportions while conviently ignoring those of other manufacturers, while pretending Williams
games were all trouble free right out of the box.
People continuing to bitch about stern prices while ignoring the fact that they are still significantly cheaper than the competition.
People pretending there is an actual competitor to Stern, who stil has a stranglehold on the vast majority of the market.
So yes, there is lots of boring, repetitive stuff around here these days"
The STERN BULLIES are running rampant all over Pinside.
Especially the ones that just can't stand to hear anything POSITIVE about their experience with Stern and try and bully that down.
You owe me a buck!
Quoted from iceman44:"You know what else is getting boring?
The never ending deluge of carguments trying to frame pinball QC in terms of the auto industry. We get it. Cars.
People answering "which game should I buy?" Threads with "stern quality issues!"
People answering "stern game prediction" threads with "there will be ghosting!" "Humor."
People blowing stern QC issues way out of proportions while conviently ignoring those of other manufacturers, while pretending Williams
games were all trouble free right out of the box.
People continuing to bitch about stern prices while ignoring the fact that they are still significantly cheaper than the competition.
People pretending there is an actual competitor to Stern, who stil has a stranglehold on the vast majority of the market.
So yes, there is lots of boring, repetitive stuff around here these days"
The STERN BULLIES are running rampant all over Pinside.
Especially the ones that just can't stand to hear anything POSITIVE about their experience with Stern and try and bully that down.
Do you have something to really share on this thread? This topic is not about any other manufacturer other than Stern. Stern does have quality issues with their cabs. People are being bullies, but mostly people are just talking who really have no clue or are drinking Stern kool-aid or some of both.
I have seen very little from people like myself who do have real issues. All these off topic posts are probably shying them away.
Quoted from Rock914:Do you have something to really share on this thread? This topic is not about any other manufacturer other than Stern. Stern does have quality issues with their cabs. People are being bullies, but mostly people are just talking who really have no clue or are drinking Stern kool-aid or some of both.
I have seen very little from people like myself who do have real issues. All these off topic posts are probably shying them away.
I believe that's the point. I have shared my experiences with Stern regarding cabs and pf's.
While I point out the negative issues I've had most people don't like to hear the positive
It's just nowhere near the sky is falling non stop bullying bash fest that occurs in a lot of threads. Which is fine but you are gonna hear both sides
Especially when you see some of the idiotic comments in a thread like this that goes WAY beyond Stern cab issues. Gonna get a reply
As for you or anybody else, I hope you get your issues fixed soon like mine.
The idea that issues aren't getting reported is not likely. Yet I'm sure most people just carry on and deal with Stern directly like they should
Quoted from iceman44:I believe that's the point. I have shared my experiences with Stern regarding cabs and pf's.
While I point out the negative issues I've had most people don't like to hear the positive
It's just nowhere near the sky is falling non stop bullying bash fest that occurs in a lot of threads. Which is fine but you are gonna hear both sides
Especially when you see some of the idiotic comments in a thread like this that goes WAY beyond Stern cab issues. Gonna get a reply
As for you or anybody else, I hope you get your issues fixed soon like mine.
The idea that issues aren't getting reported is not likely. Yet I'm sure most people just carry on and deal with Stern directly like they should
Be careful, you may get in trouble by the forum police for making such logical statements Iceman. Only certain people are allowed to be "broken records" on here and abuse the down votes and stuff like that and I highly doubt that you are one of them.
Ok I'm back to being a good little boy.....peace out!
Auckland
Quoted from pinballwil:We dutch Guy's say, een storm in een glas water, thats wat it is.
Tempest in a teapot?
I took a few days off to get ready for Pinfest...and should have stayed away from this thread.
I'm sick of the back and forth. I like Stern games...for the most part, but don't like the issues of late with PF's cratering and chipping, bad customer service, code issues and now shoddy cabinets. There are some Stern "bashers" on here and I am not one of them, but the Stern cheerleaders chiming in is beyond redundant. Stop overcomplicating everything. This thread is simple. Games are breaking and cracking that shouldn't. Stern has had quality issues of late, from several angles. If your games are perfect, in excellent shape and you do cartwheels around your game room daily...good for you. But if that is you, than your opinion is a non-sequitur here.
That is not the case for everybody, and not their experience. And not everybody has an endless supply of cash where spending $6k - $8k for something that arrives broken or with issues is no big deal. That is a huge deal to some people.
If you want positivity, as you said...go back into your owner's club threads. Don't come into a thread where someone is addressing a serious issue with their brand new game and expect positivity. If you do, that in and of itself is...well, moronic. They don't care about your game. They care about the one that was delivered to them broken, or "broke" after a short period of time.
Stop acting like people spending $6 - $8k and wanting quality is whining, or a bad thing. That is just ridiculous.
Quoted from Colsond3:I took a few days off to get ready for Pinfest...and should have stayed away from this thread.
I'm sick of the back and forth. I like Stern games...for the most part, but don't like the issues of late with PF's cratering and chipping, bad customer service, code issues and now shoddy cabinets. There are some Stern "bashers" on here and I am not one of them, but the Stern cheerleaders chiming in is beyond redundant. Stop overcomplicating everything. This thread is simple. Games are breaking and cracking that shouldn't. Stern has had quality issues of late, from several angles. If your games are perfect, in excellent shape and you do cartwheels around your game room daily...good for you. But if that is you, than your opinion is a non-sequitur here.
That is not the case for everybody, and not their experience. And not everybody has an endless supply of cash where spending $6k - $8k for something that arrives broken or with issues is no big deal. That is a huge deal to some people.
If you want positivity, as you said...go back into your owner's club threads. Don't come into a thread where someone is addressing a serious issue with their brand new game and expect positivity. If you do, that in and of itself is...well, moronic. They don't care about your game. They care about the one that was delivered to them broken, or "broke" after a short period of time.
Stop acting like people spending $6 - $8k and wanting quality is whining, or a bad thing. That is just ridiculous.
Very well stated. Simply put-Stern has GOT to get their QC issues manageable. Until then, it'd foolish to purchase any Stern product. They're coming off as arrogant, and trust me, that isn't a good image for any respectable company to portray.
I just played my As with the cracked (but fixed) corner. Great machine and really a great balance of all the things we like in a pinball machine. I hope Stern will fix the corner issue but damn, this in is really good pin. I rarely play anything else now.
Quoted from wtatumjr:I just played my As with the cracked (but fixed) corner. Great machine and really a great balance of all the things we like in a pinball machine. I hope Stern will fix the corner issue but damn, this in is really good pin. I rarely play anything else now.
Happy honeymoon! 
Quoted from Manic:Happy honeymoon!
Really I am enjoying a honeymoon. With my WOZ is was pain in the ass fix it from day 1. Thank god for Lloyd and others at JJP but really it was one thing after another. Still I'd buy a JJP in a minute. Same with Stern
Quoted from wtatumjr:I just played my As with the cracked (but fixed) corner. Great machine and really a great balance of all the things we like in a pinball machine. I hope Stern will fix the corner issue but damn, this in is really good pin. I rarely play anything else now.
Good to hear. Aerosmith sounds like a great pin. I really enjoyed playing it on location. I may be ordering a pro.
Quoted from wtatumjr:I just played my As with the cracked (but fixed) corner. Great machine and really a great balance of all the things we like in a pinball machine. I hope Stern will fix the corner issue but damn, this in is really good pin. I rarely play anything else now.
Great to hear! So far my HD braces are doing the job on my BM66.
I have picked up the HD brackets and welded up the corner gap.
What size screws are you guys using to install?
Half inch looks small and 3/4" looks like it maybe to long .
Quoted from Colsond3:Stop acting like people spending $6 - $8k and wanting quality is whining, or a bad thing. That is just ridiculous.
Speaking of redundant whining over and over again.
Pretty simple, just don't buy a pinball machine and you won't have problems.
Think its limited to Stern? They just actually have thousands of pins coming off the line. Let's see what happens when the DI line gets cranked up, I'm sure with that "build quality" and over testing there will be zero issues. 
ASLE is in a word AWESOME! 
Btw, my BM66LE and ASLE pins are awesome and fantastic "build quality" with great cabs and PF's. GBLE has very minor ghosting issue and chipping on the drain hole.
What's next? Star Wars, bring it on!
Quoted from golfingdad1:I have picked up the HD brackets and welded up the corner gap.
What size screws are you guys using to install?
Half inch looks small and 3/4" looks like it maybe to long .
With the B/W braces, 3/4" with a couple washers worked out well. Test it over the top side to see how close to the outer edge it will come if you have the brace+washers.
Quoted from wtatumjr:Really I am enjoying a honeymoon. With my WOZ is was pain in the ass fix it from day 1. Thank god for Lloyd and others at JJP but really it was one thing after another. Still I'd buy a JJP in a minute. Same with Stern
Same here with my Woz and yes thank god for Lloyd and JJP service.
Sorry about your cracked corner, you get to whine and complain and stomp your feet, glad you are loving AS too!
Quoted from PinMonk:With the B/W braces, 3/4" with a couple washers worked out well. Test it over the top side to see how close to the outer edge it will come if you have the brace+washers.
I don't have the BW braces. I have the HD L cabinet corner brackets.
Any one ?
Quoted from iceman44:Think its limited to Stern? They just actually have thousands of pins coming off the line. Let's see what happens when the DI line gets cranked up, I'm sure with that "build quality" and over testing there will be zero issues.
I never said that it was only limited to Stern. This thread is about Stern, not other manufacturers. I'm glad you're happy with your BM66 now that Stern fixed it.
Quoted from Colsond3:I took a few days off to get ready for Pinfest...and should have stayed away from this thread.
I'm sick of the back and forth. I like Stern games...for the most part, but don't like the issues of late with PF's cratering and chipping, bad customer service, code issues and now shoddy cabinets. There are some Stern "bashers" on here and I am not one of them, but the Stern cheerleaders chiming in is beyond redundant. Stop overcomplicating everything. This thread is simple. Games are breaking and cracking that shouldn't. Stern has had quality issues of late, from several angles. If your games are perfect, in excellent shape and you do cartwheels around your game room daily...good for you. But if that is you, than your opinion is a non-sequitur here.
That is not the case for everybody, and not their experience. And not everybody has an endless supply of cash where spending $6k - $8k for something that arrives broken or with issues is no big deal. That is a huge deal to some people.
If you want positivity, as you said...go back into your owner's club threads. Don't come into a thread where someone is addressing a serious issue with their brand new game and expect positivity. If you do, that in and of itself is...well, moronic. They don't care about your game. They care about the one that was delivered to them broken, or "broke" after a short period of time.
Stop acting like people spending $6 - $8k and wanting quality is whining, or a bad thing. That is just ridiculous.
Nobody is saying that people who have busted cabinets shouldn't be complaining, of course they should be complaining. I'd be very upset if that were to happen to me. There are people on here trying to make it bigger than what it is, that's the problem. If only the people with bad cabinets posted in this thread, it would only be about 20-25 posts long.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Good to hear. Aerosmith sounds like a great pin. I really enjoyed playing it on location. I may be ordering a pro.
You going to order another new machine again???
Quoted from Who-Dey:You going to order another new machine again???
Hey Who-Dey just to let ya know you posted the same reply to me in another thread where I was just asking a question about Aerosmith code... Excellent reply, always thinking positive and being helpful! Please keep bashing me over being hesitant to order a $5k-$8k game after 30+ reports of recently build games have cabinet problems.
Toronto, ON
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Hey Who-Dey just to let ya know you posted the same reply to me in another thread where I asking about Aerosmith code. Excellent reply, always thinking positive! Please keep bashing me over be hesitant to order a $5k-$8k game after 30+ reports of recently build games have cabinet problems.
Repeatedly announcing that you're "oh so close" to ordering a nib from Stern, if it weren't for (problem X), could be seen by some as passive aggressive.
You get that, right?
Another another note, does anyone have a true count on the number of cracked cabinets that people have received?
Is it really anywhere near 30?
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Hey Who-Dey just to let ya know you posted the same reply to me in another thread where I was just asking a question about Aerosmith code... Excellent reply, always thinking positive and being helpful! Please keep bashing me over being hesitant to order a $5k-$8k game after 30+ reports of recently build games have cabinet problems.
Yeah I know, I'm fully aware of that.
Quoted from Chambahz:Repeatedly announcing that you're "oh so close" to ordering a nib from Stern, if it weren't for (problem X), could be seen by some as passive aggressive.
You get that, right?
Another another note, does anyone have a true count on the number of cracked cabinets that people have received?
Is it really anywhere near 30?</blockquoteExactly. ...he's been "so close" to ordering a new pin for so long that its just comical to hear him keep saying it over and over and over. I think there's been 20-30 people maybe with cab issues.
Quoted from Chambahz:Repeatedly announcing that you're "oh so close" to ordering a nib from Stern, if it weren't for (problem X), could be seen by some as passive aggressive.
You get that, right?
Another another note, does anyone have a true count on the number of cracked cabinets that people have received?
Is it really anywhere near 30?
20-30 people
Quoted from golfingdad1:Moving on...
So what size screw are you guys using with the HD L bracket ?
I am not a fan of the L-bracket myself but If the L-bracket is 1/16" and your cabinet measures 11/16" that gives you 3/4". I would not use anything larger than 5/8 of an inch with 1 small washer. 1/2" if you are not using a washer.
Don't listen to me or anyone else on here. Measure yourself and determine what is needed. I would hate to see anyone mess up their cab because they used a screw that was too large.
Good luck! At least with the L-Brackets you may not need to move the ground braid.
I really appreciate people posting and sharing issues about any pinball product or service, I personally find it super important. That being said these threads need way better moderation. I thought gaming fanboys were bad, they are at least pubescent boys for the most part.
Quoted from Rock914:I am not a fan of the L-bracket myself but If the L-bracket is 1/16" and your cabinet measures 11/16" that gives you 3/4". I would not use anything larger than 5/8 of an inch with 1 small washer. 1/2" if you are not using a washer.
Don't listen to me or anyone else on here. Measure yourself and determine what is needed. I would hate to see anyone mess up their cab because they used a screw that was too large.
Good luck! At least with the L-Brackets you may not need to move the ground braid.
Thanks , it's more than just an L bracket , it's a corner brace for cabinets , that I have welded together at the corner . 
20170503_161301 (resized).jpg
These should work great .
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