You need to look up the definition of trolling.

That pricing thread wasn't pot stirring... that pricing thread was pointing out that someone with industry knowledge and connections shot down notions that special circumstances surrounding manufacturing and materials in 2017 are the reason prices have skyrocketed... and completely dispelled any notions that licenses can be used as an excuse for games to cost exponentially more. That's actually significant, because you never hear industry folks stepping into the realm of what's really driving pricing - that's a place they simply won't go for obvious business reasons. How you took that thread is your issue, dude... knowledge and discussion empowers consumers. We are all consumers. Stern, JJP, Spooky... they are all companies with their big boy pants on. They don't need consumers running around championing their pricing practices... but we need to look out for each other. And whether you like/dislike Stern or JJP or Heighway (you name it) you should always be on the look out for the consumer. Always.

As for Stern QC, I've purchased NIB Stern games that have had issues... did Stern fix them? Yes. Was it PIA? Yes. Was dealing with Stern pleasant? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Most recently, no.

Have I had a cracked cabinet? No

Have I had a backbox issue that required parts and disassembly? Yes

Is the backbox well constructed? No

As parts came off the backbox did it appear cheap? Yes.

Is there documented evidence of Stern pushing games out the door with very questionable issues? Yes

Should buyers be shocked and surprised if they buy a NIB game with issues? No

Would I buy another NIB Stern? Maybe

Would I buy another new Stern secondhand? Yes

Do I like Stern games, as a player? Absolutely, yes

Is that pot stirring? No

Enhance your calm John Spartan.

If you don't know what is driving pricing then you are a Moron. What's driving pricing is the amount that people are willing to pay. Every company out there sells their products for what people are willing to pay for them. It's pretty simple, if you think pinball machines are too high then don't buy NIB machines, buy used instead and quit F'ing crying about it.

As far as Sterns quality goes, I have bought four machines in the past year and a half and haven't had any issues of any kind yet and I play the hell out of my games. The cabinets definitely aren't as solid and rugged as older games, I will give you that but they certainly aren't falling apart either by any means. For the people that are having problems, yeah that sucks and I feel bad for them....especially the ones like me that take care of their games. What you don't know is though, is how many of these games actually have factory defects, how many of them were bounced around in shipping, and how they have been treated by the owners. I believe that most of these are not the owners fault for sure, but there are some people who treat their games rough as shit and don't think there isn't. Some people could f*ck up a steel ball.

It's a shame you feel the need to resort to personal insults. None of that's necessary.

That's what people do when they begin to lose an argument.

Im not resorting to personal insults, you just talk a lot of BS without any facts. You don't know that there is a big issue with these cabinets no more than I don't think that there is. I'm smart enough to look at it with an open mind that maybe there is and maybe there isn't a problem, but you come on here and run your big mouth like every new Stern cabinet has issues and that's not true. Sorry but 25 people who say that they have splitting cabinets doesn't necessarily mean that we have a catastrophe on our hands. Maybe we do and maybe we don't. I just think your hardcore never ending rants about it are stupid. Say your peace and move on. You act like your on a mission to put Stern out of business or something.

You're coming off extremely defensive, as if you don't like someone bashing issues that could effect something you've spent $10K+ on. I've never owned a Stern, but have followed the hobby since the late 90s and have built a full set of kitchen cabinets (and know a little about joinery techniques). Should I not be able to voice an opinion on the matter?

The big issue with the cabinets is the joinery being used on the box, and the apparent tendency for some of the wood to get blown out, leaving a void. That's a manufacturing technique.

Sure, pricing is set based on what the market will bear, but part of that could be based on perceived expenses--such as licensing costs. If companies imply costs are rising because of increased licensing fees, and that is not actually the case, people may be deciding what they are willing to pay based on false information. I have no idea if this type of market manipulation is going on, but it is certainly a valid area of discussion--particularly when an authority like Roger Sharpe seems to debunk assumptions about licensing costs.

As to your NIB experience, that's great, but I think the point is that it's a crap shoot. I'm enjoying the hell out of my GB Prem. It was largely ok out of the box, but it took me a few weeks to tweak things and now the cabinet is beginning to split. This is disappointing and is unfortunately consistent with the experience if many others on here and my dealer. I treat the game gently, and I'm guessing that folks with the interest to post on Pinside generally do as well. Hell, aren't these things supposed to be commercial vending equipment able to withstand a beating? While I agree Stern has been releasing some great playing games, I don't understand why you are you so resistant to others calling them out on quality issues just because you have been lucky so far.

When cabinets are being made fine for years without issues being reported by members and then all of a sudden there's 25+ reports on Pinside alone about cabinet issues...something is wrong. In the past there's been some one off reports of cabinet issues but not 25+. Logic dictates that something changed with the cabinet creation process or with the wood itself. It's not normal and it's not due to shippers dropping games, rubber casters, players nudging but rather poor quality.

Hopefully the issue has been caught and is already resolved with games being built today.

Yeah Panzer, why don't you call Stern and ask them if the cabinet issues have been resolved and if they say yes then go ahead and order that new Ghostbusters that you have been talking about ordering for the past year. What will your excuse be once the cabinet issues are resolved for not ordering one?

Why do you have to attack me at the end? If the cabinets are being built consistently well again I would have no problem ordering a new Stern today. These new games cost a significant amount of money and I don't want to feel like I'm rolling the dice with thousands of dollars.

Absolutely. A consumer's willingness to pay is definitely based on a calculus and understanding of what could potentially cause a product to be worth the level it's priced. Hence, the reason it might be important to have some insight to the overall weight of true manufacturing cost increases... the overall effect of license fees, etc. Obviously, no one here is ignorant to the fact that what a targeted market is willing to bear ultimately gets prices to their level.

No one here wants Stern to fail... I certainly don't. But, also, everyone here should be aware of issues out of the factory and the company's response to those issues. We are entering new territory; the new operator is the home owner. A company like Stern is actively adjusting to this new reality (evidenced by huge pricing bumps and communication from their own company... heck, George Gomez has spoken about it extensively himself), we as consumers paying big money need to hold them to a high standard, not just blindly follow them. That goes for every company... JJP on down.

Prices on these NIB games are the highest they've ever been... and anyone buying NIB knows that, more likely than not, they're going to lose some money on their NIB purchase. I've accepted that fact on all NIB buys I've made. But no one wants or likes to pay huge sums of money for something only to have its quality called into question -- this information isn't consistent with the willingness to fork over large sums of cash, especially when 99% of collectors want their games to hold reasonable value.

Do you plan on just doing the front corners or all 4 in each? I'm considering doing the back corners but not sure if there's room to work way back there.

My head hurts.

I now how it splits, lose your all your balls in 10 seconds AND THEN KICK YOUR FEED TO THE LEG.
Hahahaha.

We get it, its a broken record now.

On and on in multiple threads.

I'll be enjoying my brand new ASLE as it arrives today

I'll just be doing the front legs. I don't think the back legs will be a problem because the cab back there is stiffened by a large measure by the wood that runs from side to side that the bb sits on. I pulled the pf when I put all 4 on my HS which made it real easy.

Thank you! That's EXACTLY the point that I'm trying to make. He just keeps going on and on and on and on, it never ends! I'd be fine if he just said "stern sucks and they build cheap games", but he doesn't know when enough is enough. Enjoy your new game iceman. I got the day off and I'm going to turn on every game I have and grab some beers and play the hell out of them while these guys are on Pinside trying to convince everyone that their cabinets are going to fall apart.

^^^ The same thoughts run through my mind. Yeah the excuses get me, shipper dropped it, rubber casters, etc. There were one off problems in the past, but never like this. Stern cheapened up the games and it's becoming very apparent they did so. You can only strip something so far before it's starts falling apart and that seems to be where we currently are. It really sucks. I don't want to see Stern fail, but they need to own this. I don't feel like I should have to be reinforcing/beefing up a game less than a year old that I paid close to $7k for.

We are paying the premium price, but by a long shot not getting premium quality we deserve. I hope Stern gets this straightend out and this sends a clear message to quit stripping everything out of the game that they possibly can to improve their profit margin.

It's called a discussion forum. It's where you come to discuss things. And as a NIB Stern buyer...and someone that (1) owns Sterns, (2) has dealt with Stern CS, and (3) plays Sterns on location, I'm just as qualified to discuss Stern as the next Stern owner.

You've obviously misinterpreted some of my posts about Stern... that's your deal, not mine.

I have a WWE. The location I service games at has an Aero, Kiss, Metallica, and GB (all late model). All the cabs look fine (with the legs on). But hey it's NYC, maybe they are sticking you guys in the sticks with all the bum cabs.

For crying out loud. The Stern Army needs to chill out and understand that people are pissed off for good reason. Stern has had a rough recent record for build quality and quality control. That's not even debatable, the facts are all over the place. A significant recall/replacement program for decals, playfields, and node boards all preceded the current cabinet problem.

Stern has been cheapening their builds from a design aspect (no interrupt switch, lockbar mechanism, cab decals, moving the power button, less wood in the backbox, etc.) and also from a material aspect (less reinforcement, cheaper materials). We know that they're doing this, because all you have to do use poke around in an original Spider-Man or Iron Man and then poke in the VEs and it's immediately obvious.

I have no problem with a company trying to make a product at a lower cost. That's generally responsible. I do have a problem, however, when it degrades the quality of the final product. It's doubly problematic when they raise costs at the same time. Stern is doing this, but they're also bringing "add-on" products to market at a wildly inflated price over the norm ($500 toppers, $100 arches, etc.).

It's really easy to see why people are upset with Stern. Rather than just blindly defending this stuff, some constructive criticism would be wise. Stern has decided to target the home market, and they need to understand that there are higher standards to be held to. Before rolling out the $500 topper and another price increase, maybe they should just make sure that the games aren't literally falling apart within weeks of shipping.

Stop shouting down people with legit criticism. It just give Stern a pass to keep screwing this stuff up. Nobody wants you to stop supporting Stern. That's your decision, and that's generally good for pinball. But for crying out loud, stop trying to bury legit concerns. We know that Stern employees read this stuff, so it's important that they get a good read on problems out in the wild and how people feel about them.

This is a thread about cabinet problems. Start a thread about loving Stern and their recent releases and do that there. The "I just bought an Aerosmith and I'm going to love it!" posts are off-topic here.

Sorry it doesn't work that way. Every hate thread gets love interlopers and every love thread gets hate interlopers. I mean, where were you when unwanted gottlieb love kept seeping into my beloved street fighter 2 hate thread?!

It's the circle of life.

Yeah, but it's also the main reason threads derail and get crazy.

I swear, we can start a fight about Batman '66 in a thread about someone looking for a pop bumper cap for a Bally Frontier.

Thank you, Jeff. Well said.

Pot calling kettle black?

Amazing you even have time to enjoy your "high quality" Sterns between your own -fourteen thousand- repetitive, broken record, emoji filled posts...

Dude, you need to chill a little. We commonly vote on each others posts...I agree with some of your posts, and disagree with others. I was chatting with Todd (@27dnast) recently, and he is good people. Very pleasant. And I've been around on here, and he comments on things but definitely is not a troll. In fact, I haven't seen him on here as much as I used to, so he probably took a self-imposed break as I did and several others do. Let's keep this thread on point, because again I didn't log on here for days because I get tired of reading the pointless back and forth pissing contests that have nothing to do with the actual thread. We all spend a lot of money on this hobby, so we all have opinions and are all emotional. I've got nothing negative to say about any Pinsider anymore...we are all in this sickness, eh I mean hobby, together.

I myself am avoiding all this mess for now and just buying a Houdini.

Houdini illusion (resized).jpg

To be upfront I don't own a modern stern and never have. Do I want stern to fail, of course not. If you want to race to the top on prices fine but don't cut so many corners your customers quit buying and that's what's going on. Everyone has a price/value they are willing to pay. Seems many here would have already made new purchases if the issues were not in the equation.

Knock yourself out. Why not take the message directly to Stern? Nothing is going to change it here.

It gets derailed because other people have different opinions and don't put as much weight on the issues that Stern has had recently.

Its just a "discussion forum" with differences of opinion.

There are different levels of "upset". Like i was when my BM66 had the turn table issue, got it fixed and moved on and bought another Stern pin, other people will say they will never buy another Stern pinball machine.

Others feel much more strongly about their disdain and prefer to comment on it over and over again. Whatever.

It appears Stern is experiencing huge sales and probably won't slow down with Star Wars. #Stern Army

Splitting cabs, ghosting inserts, questionable QC, and dodgy materials aren't a matter of opinion though. It's a fact that Stern is using them. If that doesn't bother you, that's fine. But it does bother people who expect more for what they pay. The point of this thread is to raise awareness of the problem, not to sweep it under the rug.

If I open a new laptop computer and it's missing a few keys and the screen is scratched, I'd really not like to hear about how yours was perfect and you're buying another...especially if it's unclear whether or not the company is going to swap mine out or make it good somehow.

I do believe that Stern will fix the issue, but until they do, it's fair to question them openly.

A simple thread like should you add a shaker to ASLE turns into a crap fest.

Or Stern offering the lighted apron. Crap fest.

If you have been on Pinside for 10 minutes people are fully aware of shitty Stern and reminded of it every day.

Awareness isn't the issue. Take it up with Stern themselves would seem to be the best course of action.

It's also a fact that Stern is fixing issues, either relax or bust a blood vessel over it.

Yes, they are fixing the issues. I think the real frustration is that they keep having the issues in the first place. I got my playfield replaced and the process was fairly smooth, despite the fact that the replacement plays objectively worse than the original. I just don't understand it. A bit more care and the issues would lessen over time.

Curious as to why it plays worse? I'm possibly getting a replacement but the one I have now with minor ghosting on 2 inserts plays great

I might prefer just getting a backup PF

Left scoop ejects differently. Either I set it to dribble out limply or I let it shoot SDTM. I can't adjust it for the life of me to be acceptable. The right orbit had that added mylar that screws up orbit shots terribly. The right orbit one-way gate was installed incorrectly and left a big gap (I'm going to post pics about this, beacuse I've found it to be common). My plunges now hit Stay Puft sometimes, but they never did before. Slimer was outright broken (I fixed him with some soldering and wiring work).

Few other things. I probably put a good 10-15 hours in the first one, and I'm probably looking at the same here. So while I expected it wouldn't be perfect, it's just a bummer I took such a big step back.

Wait, the LE doesn't come standard with a shaker? LOL. Really getting your money's worth from Stern. #Anti-Stern Army

Gas on Fire 2 (resized).jpg

Yeah that's frustrating. I have left scoop in dribble myself and get a few Stay Puft hits from time to time. Shouldn't have to fix a broken Slimer like that.

guys in the GB issue thread recommended cutting off or bending the ear on the one way gate to me when I was bitching about how the right orbit shot rattles off the plunge and hits Stay Puft

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ghostbuster-issue-thread/page/61#post-3723941

Well it is a "limited" edition.

I thought the LE DID come with a shaker?
I know I had to install one in my Premium, and to me, this makes for a much better feel and playing experience. I do wish the Premium came with one though.

METLE #199 looks factory fresh. I would be shutting bricks right now if I had found a crack!!

Yup, my 2005-2014 Sterns all look great. Also, all my games are on rubber castors which haven't caused any problems for a decade.

My MET Pro June 2014 HUO
You can see it just starting to to crack and the decal is ripped a little. I'm the third owner. The brush burn on the corner was from game sliding into my van set when brining it home. So don't know if that contributed to the crack or not.

IMG_3544 (resized).JPG

Doesn't look bad at all but to play it safe put the HD leg braces on ASAP.

That cabinet does not look like it's splitting to me?

Well... we agree on something.

It doesn't look like it's splitting to me either...cabinets can only take so much pushing and pulling before something might give a little.

Same here.

It's about time

Just got the HD mounts in the mail yesterday. Putting them on before my league buddies come over to play.

It sure looks split to me. Maybe I'm just nervous and the little rip in the decal happened when the game slid in my minivan. Believe me, I've beet myself up a dozen times for not strapping it down.

I know the feeling believe me. I think your game is probably fine though from what I see. We all want our games to stay like new but it happened and there's nothing you can do now about it now. It's still a great great game and if that's the worst thing that happens to it, it'll be all good. I've never strapped a game down either, it's just something you assume will be ok when transporting it and 99 times out of 100 it is ok.