I don't think the toys in TF look that bad. Frankly I was disapointed that Gomez with his background didn't make something interesting specific to the game. They obviously alluded to it in their infomercial.

With that being said I don't think toys have anything to do with build quality.

Obvioulsy the delay for ACDC shows at least a better level of QC from them. With what I've seen let go from the factory it must have been substantial. The decal job on TF was just pathetic and their resolution of sending people new decals was a lame move IMO.

+10!

Yep, the toy design shown in the teasermovie really kicked ass! That's the only (big) bummer for me on TF. What where they thinking? If you show such a cool toy, that people will be happy when you give them a much simpler "bash" Optimus toy? I was really surprised that there wasn't a bigger fuss over that.

Is that part of the reason that we are not seeing anything in advance about their next pin???

The video they did for TF was pretty much an infomercial as the game was being sold sight unseen and people had to use the commercial(which is what it was) to determine if they wanted to buy. Personally I thought it was false advertising and would have been a pissed buyer. The games designer was a toy designer and so there was a lot of promise with the theme but in the end they just stuck a bunch of off the shelf toys into the game.

Do you ever work on your games, or even remove the glass? Because the pegs SUCK if you are lifting the pf! The rails are a reasonable support (and not expensive, but Stern is *that* cheap), the pegs are unstable and nonadjustable. The heavy Pin2k-esque full rails in WOZ are far better.

I moonlight as a tech what do you think In reality the newer games will never be my issue maybe the 2nd or 3rd owners issue. How often do you need to do work in the extended position me hardly ever. I either flip i up or yank it an throw it on a rotisserie

I do lots of minor stuff (most common fixes) on the rails--much easier and quicker than removing balls and flipping up, etc. Easy to check/adjust flipper play, adjust outlane posts, replace many pf insert bulbs, etc. In fact, most of the time I am on the rails--the full flip up is only when I am working on mechs in the top half of the pf.

I just did a full shop job on my new Iron Man, and the struts didn't bother me a bit. This included removing the Monger to adjust the switches and stripping all the parts off the top of the PF. It took me a while to figure out how to push the playfield back in (brute force); that was a bigger issue to me but I figured it out. Yes, my RFM playfield is easier to manhandle, but I'd rather play Iron Man.

I know with the 2 Stern's I've worked on (Tron LE/TSPP) you have to slightly lift the back of the playfield, then slide it in....unlike a B/W pin which just slides in without having to lift. You do NOT need brute force, that's for sure...

As far as I know every Stern in the past few years is like that - it's the biggest complaint I have about working on them.

Hopefully jschlarb reads this as brute force is NOT how it goes back in haha...

My buddy actually thought his Tron LE was broken, as he couldn't get the playfield back in either, until I showed him how...

_{Post edited by RobKnapp : I quoted wong post.I ment to disagree that the sound systems on STERN machines are better than MIDWAY. The sound of my SPIDER MAN & LOTR Limeted Edition cant hold a candle to all of my MIDWAY machines.}

This is another downside of the support pegs. And yeah, you want to move to the side and lift the top of the pf a bit to slide it in all the way. My B/W games don't always slide in smoothly. But just a little pressure on the apron end when it hits the stop, and it slides all the way in. This is not possible with pegs, of course.

lotr doesn't have great sound due to the extremely poor sound samples. Spiderman does have good sound but there is not a lot of dynamic range in the samples.

The stern Sam sound chipset is far superior to anything midway produced. My ironman, transformers, or tron with pro sub absolutely blows away any of the Williams games I have - and the Williams games all not only have pro subs but also back box speaker replacements. If we compare just stock speakers, the 8" sub in the sterns kills that weak 6" in the Williams (midway). The two backbox in the sterns are way better than then one tweeter and mid range in the Williams. It's no comparison.

I played AC/DC Bible today and it is as nice feeling as any W/B game I have played ! Well done !

This thread was an attempt to bag on AC/DC and it failed !

Jim

JJP has taken 6.5 million+ from the market without even shipping a game. It is good both companies are selling stuff.

This was my biggest complaint on my Iron Man, then Tron. I seriously thought there was an issue. It's a hugely moronic design. Just stupid, period. I added the support kit to my Tron just today, and now a firm, but certainly not brute-force push to the rear and it's in. I grab the rails from the front, a slight pull down (to lighten the rear, over the hump) and slide it in.

Regarding all other matters, I'm happy. The IM and Tron benefit from a lean, fast playfield. Everything has a clean, well laid-out wire/harness plan, cabinet seems solid enough, and general fit/finish is nice. For those games, scanned artwork is fine, if not preferable. Hand-drawn, live-action movie art seldom looks "great" on pinball, with some exceptions.

So don't laugh about my bad english^^:

I buyed a STERN AC/DC LE LtbR. Last week the machine was delivered. But the CPU and the DMD were defect/wrong. The display just said that the machine won't work in my country.

The STERN support was realy great and they send me in recort time a replacement CPU that worked. I could start the game now.

So now I wanted to play the game but there is something wrong with the right ramp. The ball always keeps hanging at the entrance to the cannon. The game is leveled right. I think the ramp is mounted wrong, but I don't know. I just contacted the STERN support again. And hope they will help again.

What I want to say here is, that the STERN Support is good, and games like AC/DC are looking great. From what I could play, I say this game is a winner. But there is something wrong with the quality controll!!!
I am starting to understand why so many people are angry about STERN. And I am getting angry too!!!
I think they could and must do way better!

EDIT:
I jammed some rubber post between a plastic and the right ramp. That helped, but it looks ugly and can't be a solution.

The op was asking people's opinions on build quality between two Sterns and the AC/DC was a pro.
Seems to be a pretty fair question.

I think the under playfield pegs are just a hidden price increase. The pegs are really bad and you could easily damage under play field components if you don’t add the rails. I like the plastic aprons. My LOTR manual was just great, one of the best I ever had. My Tron manual is the worst manual I have ever had just a few photo copied pages no schematics just junk. Every B/W I have had I go out and find the original manual nobody will ever do that for Tron.

From what I have seen the game needs no extra rubber or post. You have to be on your toes or it might drain . All you need to do is give the machine a slight nudge and you are golden , forget what you are doing and you will pay the price ! Great game and good build quality.

Jim

I don't doubt that the game you played was great and had good quality. I think you just don't read my post.
I have no "drain problem". On my machine right out of the box, the CPU board was bad, and the LEDDMD showed lines that were always on. After the great Stern support solved these problems there was a new one:
I could not use the cannon because the ball keeps stuck before it and that sucks!! It is not a one time problem, it's every shot to the cannon. The rubber now helps but it is in noway an endsolution. On my game the right ramp to the cannon let the ball stuck between cannon entrance and ramp. The machine is leveled right and you could not free the ball with a nudge! You must wait till it goes in ball search mode. With a rubberpost between the exit of the right ramp and the plastic under it at the entrance to the cannon the problem is better and the ball stucks only sometimes. That's cause the rubber put the ramp just a little higher. There is something wrong how the right ramp on my machine is mounted. I yet don't know what exactly but I am not the only one with that problem. And I am thrilled to know what the stern support will tell me to do.

The game is great, there is no doubt about that. And the build design is great but that is just theory and won't help me with my game. If the stern workers had tested that gamefield of mine as they should have, they would have seen this!

All I say here is, that the build concept is great but the quality controll of the machines should have to be way better. I want to play and not to be a game tester for STERN. The support was great so far but my game should not been shiped like it was.

Sorry my bad ,, I will have my bible this week and I will look into a possible reason on why yours is sticking a ball .. The one played this weekend has some issues but I was able to get though it.

Jim

Guys, Im not kidding, ACDC Premium feels like a Bally Williams. Its heavy. Solid. My Sterns have been very reliable, easy to work on and well built so far.

So I've got an email from STERN Support, for my AC/DC Problem:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Heiko,
I'm sorry to hear you're have a problem with your new game. To correct this issue, you'll need to install a 3/4 inch spacer under the right ramp. (see picture).
First, remove the Phillips head screw located at the front of the plastic beneath the ramp. Next install a 3/8" x 3/4" spacer with a 6-32 x 11/4" Phillips head screw and # 8 washer.
Best regards,
Patrick
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/5246/acdcrrtramp.jpg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So just like I said the support is great. I think this mod will help me with the ramp problems.
I don't know if it is easy to get these parts here in germany but I try to get them quick. If it helps, all I could say is that this machine rocks and is a keeper for me. All the other parts look good for me in quality.

3/4" ....it was that far off when you got it? That is a big frikkin spacer in that picture, without it you are saying that piece sat all the way down on the plastic?

no

No, it is not down on the plastic!
It hangs in the air there is no post under it, it just hangs a little bit to much under the entrance, so the ball get stuck there. And I think if the posts at the right side of the ramp are not 100 % at the right place, this could happen. In the german forums there are others that had this problem too.
So how I understand this I have to take out a small screw, down at the plastic under the ramp and put a spacer in there that pushs the ramp just a litte bit up. Oh god how should I explain such technical things in english, if it is already hard for me to translate them in german to understand them.^^ In germany we say "Unterbau" to this. It's just like a balcony, hanging free in the air and now I have to build a post from the bottom to give it enough stability, and a push up.
But I don't know if will be easy to get these parts here. I haven't found the right sizes in the shops so far.

I just wanted to post the email I've got from Stern in case somebody else had the same problem here.

You're english makes perfect sense to me, much better than my German haha

To head off the WMS fanboys, clearly you dont know what you are talking about

Totally agree and totally surprised as I have not liked the way Sterns felt ever , until AC/DC !

Jim

The metal leg protector plates are genius .

Jim

Man, that's one ugly fix. At least you probably can't see it from the player's view.

Anyone tried putting williams flippers in a stern game?

I played a LOTR at Pinfest that was significantly stronger than the couple of others I have played. The ring shot felt much easier to hit consistently. Makes me wonder.

There are upgraded coils for LOTR, or maybe you just played one that was actually serviced, unlike location games....

The metal leg protector plates are genius .
Jim

Genius! No more decal rubbing at all.

2012-05-04_16.40.50.jpg

There you go Taylor do your damnedest not to give credit where it is do as usual... Just sayin.

Stern flippers are extremely strong if properly built and adjusted. There is definitely no need to try to retrofit Williams flippers into a stern game. My lotr uses the stock coils and I can easily destroy the ring in two ball mode and (while harder) backhand the left ramp.

Someone needs to remind the Kool aid drinkers that sugar rots their teeth.

I understand that inflection is lost online but you guys need to adopt a sense of humor.

Firm push, brute force -- same thing. The point is you don't have to lift the back of the playfield and if you did, you would need a second person.

Are those metal leg protectors available separately for purchase? Any ideas on how well they would work on decaled williams games? I would assume the decal would need to be cut to avoid wrinkling...

You don't need a second person at all. You just lift the back of the playfield while standing at the side of the machine to get it over the lip, then it slides right in no problem...

What holds up the front of the playfield while you're doing this?

Your other hand...

If you have short arms it wont work.

I guess I have short arms then. IM is a bit of a problem too, because the back panel is just flexible plastic and there's nothing to grab. Giving it a firm but gentle shove from the front while holding the struts seems like the designed-for operation.

Works best if you pick up the back edge of the "PF" not the back panel.