I'm gonna go with...just you.

Here we go...

Cannot remember when they made the change, but yes they did cheapen things.

Wizman thread returns!

My buddy has a tron le and its a great game but it is on the light side and very easy to nudge it around.

Recent STterns (Avatar, Tron, BBH, TF) have felt light and 'plasticy' to me as well. SM does seem more substantial/solid in feel.

Seriously...
Scoozman you know better than that to ask such a thing here!

Just teasing ya' Scoot!
We are just weary of these types of threads, no harm no foul.
Play through...

Not sure why anyone would bash him for making an observation. Call me a stern hatter if you want but they are not built as well as past BWS pins or even earlier Stern models. They have made some really good games lately but build quality still suffers a bit.

I was in on a conversation with some other collectors recently, and one of them thought that starting around Iron Man, the legs seem thinner. I dunno, but maybe time to dust off the micrometer..... Seems to make sense to me. Come top think of it, compared to Bally/Willams legs, they are lighter!
Tully

The guy has an opinion and asks for response and you label him wizman. Life always has a wizman and someone that can do nothing but mccartheyism and brand someone wizman. Right on dude, keep pointing thAt finger.

"Hater"

I played ac/dc today and it just does not feel as sturdy or as solid as my spiderman,Is this true or is it just me?

I Assume you played the Pro , Maybe the Premium & LE Will be Different. I Hope.. To be Honest , I've Owned several Stern Pin's , As you see, I Don't Have them any more.. Making AC/DC Prem- my 1st NIB Pin was Mainly Due too the Group. If the Prem- Suffer's the Lack of shot's and my Interest , I'll send it Out like the Rest .. But I'm Gonna give it a dam Good Chance to hang-out..
It Kinda sound's Like BSD , Stack-n Multi-ball's and etc,, If so , that's rite up my Alley .. B_R ALL_Right.gif

The TSPP that i bought a month ago and had to carry down stair's felt like it weighed a Ton..

i too have noticed this. there is an avatar on location near me and it feels lighter than older sterns when i nudge it. i still enjoy playing it though.

If it were any other recent Stern pin Scooter I'd totally agree with you.. but Steve really pushed to bring build quality back to the table on AC/DC and it shows, IMO.

... except for the legs. As others have mentioned, these things feel like they're propped up on tooth picks (nothing a good set of WMS legs can't solve)

Actually, the holes won't line up on the WMS legs so the machine wouldn't be the right height.

I had a 24 here the other day. Wasn't that built in 2009 after spiderman? It felt very stout, had the standard playfield support. Overall quality of the machine seems good. Where they are cutting costs are in things like the cheaper quality toys. My tron pro and iron man were both slightly lighter. They had the black pegs rather than the rail supports for the playfield. Also, when installing the shaker, the cabinet bottom seems to not be made of wood. Other than that, the components being used are the same and the quality seems good enough. The things that are important are the moving parts. The pop bumpers, switches, and electrical components seem equal or better than the WMS counterparts. I like stern flippers quite a lot. The sound system in the sterns blows away the WMS. The WMS are a bit easier to work on.

I can't speak for AC/DC but I got Scoots back on this topic.

NOW, the first beers on you next week. I'm the chubby redhead ... can't miss me.

You can say the same about vehicles today! They sure dont make them like they use too! Sign of the times! I'am just glad there still making machines for us to play, and there American made still!

Not really sure why the american made matters? I've got the stickers on my nascar still, but stern has cut a lot of corners on the new ones. They feel worse than early segas and this is coming from someone who has 3 sterns and a DE. I also refuse to buy a nib stern because they have a horribly history of never finishing the code. They have made some great games in the past which is why I haven't felt the need to own a b/w title in awhile, but the stuff they are putting out now is just not worth it for me.

No. Perhaps grammar and sentence construction help is needed. In this sentenct "Wizman" is used as an adjective qualifying the noun "thread". No comment about the OP is included in the sentence. Perhaps if you had been following the latest activity on pinside you would understand how that comment is both timely and relevant.

LEs always feel more solid, Tron LE feels totally noticeably more solid.

P.S... Rolling Stones (ugh) LE (double Ugh) is quite a bit more solid that pro one.

wow.

Can we not immortalize wizman please, the guy is not worth becoming any legend of any kind here

too late, that train has already left the station.

tron le does not feel cheap to me. In fact, the first thing i noticed about the one i played was that it felt exactly like a b/w. It wasn't just that it was new either, as i've played a SM with probably the same amount of plays (guessing by condition) and there is a significant difference in feel between those two.

America does need jobs, but I don't reward companies that crap on their customers and stern has a nasty habit of doing that. The only reason they are in business is that they are the only game in town until JJP steps up. I hope he knocks it out of the park and forces stern to either change their tune or go under.

Wizman was a POS.

Referring to the OP as a POS is pretty unfair IMO.

When sterns go from 5 ply down to 2 ply playfields i will save some cash and just buy toilet paper instead.

I guess I don't get it. I have owned both and when I had all Bally/Williams, there wasn't a week that went by without something going wrong with one of them. I am yet to have to fix ANYTHING on a Stern. maybe they feel different but they must be doing something right. Thank you Stern,keep those games comin....Bye they way, have you measured a 2"x4"lately?They are no where close to what they were 20 years ago, it's not just Stern my friends....

I did just read that Stern is using 5-ply wood for the pf instead of the regular 7-ply. Can anyone with an AC/DC or recent Stern verify? (Lift the pf and count the layers on the edge, and on the cab sides from below the game.) Is 5-ply also being used for the cabinet? If so, this would account for the cheaper/lighter feel of recent Sterns. And it is also LAME!

Well, after playing my widebody pins, I have trouble playing on new sterns. I damn near toss those things into the walls. Just by using the flippers!

New sterns are made for Nancy Boys, with more tender tendencies.

I just got my first Stern (2004 tspp) and its way more solid than my buddies tron le. You actually have to use a bit of effort to nudge. But on his tron even a little kid could nudge it...

It think some of the "light feel" of the newer Sterns has a lot to do with the thinner gauge steel in the legs. They certainly twist more that my WPC legs contributing to an easier to nudge feeling. My games are on carpet, so I can't move them around by nudging aggressively.

That said my WPC legs look like a thinner gauge steel than my older Bally legs, so I guess this type of cost cutting has been going on for a longer time than we think. This is most likely the reason, starting around the System 11 days, they started putting ribs on all their legs to increase stability..

And, of course, for her pleasure

in sterns defence, i have zero problems with things breaking or getting errors. not a stern hater but want a machine to be built solid for the money asked.

who doesn't want value?

woz @ $6500 will be value with the build quality now known.

Indeed

During the ACDC release in Pittsburgh one of the lightning bolts worked its way off. Other than that both ACDC machines got played a ton and there weren't any issues. I would have to say the ACDC machine feels pretty solid.

Pins are no different than anything else on the market, car body metal got thinner, most appliances are now made of plastic, hell even candy bars have gotten smaller not to mention all of them got more expensive, just like pins! The days of the heavy Gottliebs and Williams bodies are long gone, quantity not quality now rains supreme.

SM is an 'older' Stern. I was referring to more recent Sterns, manufactured over the past 2-3 years. The JJP playfield (widebody) is 9 plies, not 11. And "2-by-4's" have been smaller than 2"x4" for a VERY long time! The 2"x4" refers to the nominal (green) dimensions, not the final board size. It's been that way since before either of us was born.

The Stern's I've played recently, I.E. (FG, LOTR) seemed to be built of decent quality. I did recently purchase a TFTC and you can definitely tell a difference in quality with the older pins. Even my wife said to me the other day " this game is fun, but doesn't feel as solid as our other pins". So even a rookie can tell when it comes down to it. Even with the less than "solid" feel, still a kickass pin.