(Topic ID: 114442)

Stern... We Want Our Star Trek Code Now


By Dis_Pinballer

4 years ago



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  • 434 posts
  • 124 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by SunKing
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

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There are 434 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 9.
#51 4 years ago
Quoted from dung:

You very obviously know nothing about software projects. Once the higher ups say move on to the next project you do. There is no allocating. It does not matter what you want. You do as you are told or you find a new job.

Steve has limits, thus we, the customers, can light up Gary.
We keep his company running, and if we get poor support, we can voice our opinions to his company as one large mass.
If Gary doesn't want to listen to the customers, we stop buying his products.
I encourage everyone to call Stern, and light up Gary.

#52 4 years ago

Stern Pinball
708.345.7700
Call and complain about the code because you paid for it.

#53 4 years ago

It's cute that you think Stern gives a shit about threads like these or that you would expect them to take any sort of action based on this posting. As stated numerous times before, contact them directly if you are unhappy with the product you purchased.

#54 4 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

It's cute that you think Stern gives a shit about threads like these or that you would expect them to take any sort of action based on this posting.

The purpose of this thread is to get people to call Stern, and demand better service.
Phone calls mean a lot more than posts.

#55 4 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

It's cute that you think Stern gives a shit about threads like these or that you would expect them to take any sort of action based on this posting. As stated numerous times before, contact them directly if you are unhappy with the product you purchased.

I have contacted them, and encourage others to call them as well.
Customers matter...

#56 4 years ago

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!STERN

#57 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Stern makes blingy LEs for the home market...but they don't understand the importance of keeping the home user happy and how they need to change their thought process on code to do it.

Judgment day is coming for them Tiger.

It will catch up to them.

#58 4 years ago

Why don't all you all pitch in some money and get a lawyer letter drafted with all your names on it and send it directly to Gary. That's bound to get some attention. And so you get your point across send Gary a half finished bottle of vodka!

#59 4 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Why don't all you all pitch in some money and get a lawyer letter drafted with all your names on it and send it directly to Gary. That's bound to get some attention. And so you get your point across send Gary a half finished bottle of vodka!

We want our code, not a lawyer.

#60 4 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Why don't all you all pitch in some money and get a lawyer letter drafted with all your names on it and send it directly to Gary. That's bound to get some attention. And so you get your point across send Gary a half finished bottle of vodka!

Hey Flash,
Could you contact some lawyers and see if anyone will take the case?
Even better if you can record their replies so we can all share a laugh.

#61 4 years ago
Quoted from Dis_Pinballer:

The purpose of this thread is to get people to call Stern, and demand better service.
Phone calls mean a lot more than posts.

I actually think this is a good idea. I will call them as well.

#62 4 years ago

Solution to the problem is we all agree not to buy NIB games from Stern until there track record with code starts doing a 180. The second captive balls, drop targets and spinners became a "limited edition" feature we all should have told Stern to shove it. Emails and especially FB posts which jody the monkey deletes instantly won't do jack, speak with our wallets though and they will sit up and listen.

#63 4 years ago

These posts about code are about 4 years old now! The only way Stern and competitors will ever change is if people stop buying games with unfinished code. Trust me I own a ST pro and really want this game tweaked to perfection but it seems just like other games that it has been abandoned. I watched everyone complain about X men, Avengers, Ac/DC, Metallica, Star Trek, and now The Walking Dead. I wanted to buy a new TWD but after waiting forever with AC/DC, MET, and ST I stopped buying new games until the code is good. Unfortunately it seems that the game code doesn't get good for over a year from the initial release. If we want change then do your part and hold on to your money until Stern decides to complete game code. Every time a new game comes out we all freak out and want to order one because its new and hip. Lets hope that Stern decides to change their track record, but I'm not holding my breath.

#64 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

I don't think Stern fully understands the difference in selling operators and collectors. If a game was reliable and earned money the operator market was happy...code was not overly important to them so long as it made money and was cheap to maintain.
The home user wants bug free, sound, logical code with deep rules and maybe cool Easter eggs...
Stern makes blingy LEs for the home market...but they don't understand the importance of keeping the home user happy and how they need to change their thought process on code to do it.

Exactly, I would love to know the ratio of pins made to collectors and to operators. I mean in the 90's there were arcades and lots of places to play but now next to nothing at least in Toronto, I would assume the collector is the main purchaser of NIB pinballs but I have no idea?

#65 4 years ago

I'm not part of this circus. But I'm sick and tired of hearing people bitch about code. Stop bitching and do something. Either stop buying NIB, or be proactive and do something to remedy the problem. People bitching on here does nothing to show stern anything because they haven't changed in years!

#66 4 years ago

Then all of you should send a registered letter addressed to Gary expressing your miscontent and explain why. If he gets 250 letters he might just wake up from his "Stern is king" glorified ego. Registered letters must be signed and acknowledgement of reception is recorded.

#67 4 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Then all of you should send a registered letter addressed to Gary expressing your miscontent and explain why. If he gets 250 letters he might just wake up from his "Stern is king" glorified ego. Registered letters must be signed and acknowledgement of reception is recorded.

Or we all go out and buy JJP. Say what you will about JJP, WOZ's code is freaking amazing . . . there is nothing like it at Stern.

If JJP sold a bunch of WOZ's and Hobbit's . . . that would get Stern's attention . . . better than anything else.

#68 4 years ago

JJP's problem is price point. Only a fraction of the pinball community can afford their games.

#69 4 years ago
Quoted from Lermods:

This is an amusing thread, as if this never happened before. I could substitute XM and TAV every time ST is mentioned, exact same experience.

I can't agree with this at all. They're entirely different experiences.

TAV - released with nearly completed code which really hasn't changed much. The rules are actually very good and I think the game is decent. All my issues with avengers are related to the layout. I think the code knocked it out of the ball park. Tons of strategy, great stacking, great sound and lighting effects. Lonnie's best game for sure. A couple bugs and missing dots on wizard mode (which I've never seen) but for the most part this game code wise is a win.

Xmen - this had to be the worst code ever released on a pinball game when it came out. And the year long journey after that was horrible. But all that aside, the game in its current state is fantastic. The current code is not just good, it's great. There are also a couple small issues in how wizard mode wraps up. I am staying on v1.5 rather than v1.51 due to this but really, the rules are awesome. I don't think xmen wil ever recover from its journey and reputation that got it to where it's at now. But the package as it stands today is great. Layout has a ton of stuff going on, game features are all integrated and used well. And the rules are well integrated.

Compare this to Star Trek. It's first release wasn't as bad as say xmen. And the game as it stands has ok rules. The game is fun. Unfortunately, the code is just missing something that makes for exciting pinball. I'm not great a figuring out why it's not great. I think I might want to rewrite these rules as a fun hobby project if it doesn't get sorted out. I think the layout is one of the smoothest playing funniest layouts and the theme is a winner for me.

#70 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Or we all go out and buy JJP. Say what you will about JJP, WOZ's code is freaking amazing . . . there is nothing like it at Stern.
If JJP sold a bunch of WOZ's and Hobbit's . . . that would get Stern's attention . . . better than anything else.

The one big factor that you left out is the price difference. I can normally only afford a 4-5k pin, at 8k plus I think you are out of the ball park for a lot of pinball enthusiast. If JJP or anyone else can put out a decent pin for sub 5k then it would be a competition. I consider Tron and Iron Man are some of the best games ever and were closer to 4k in 2011. Yes Tron and IM are basic but the games are fun as hell, and if you got them new at half the price of WOZ.

#71 4 years ago

I am a customer that spent a lot of money, and deserve good service.
Good customer service is hard to find.
They take your money, and give poor support for their products.
Jody the Monkey deleting customer concerns shows that Stern is horrible with customer service.
A good company would take criticism, and build a better product and enhance customer support.
Deleting criticism shows they have no respect for the customer.

#72 4 years ago

In the end they will fail...
Bad customer service only lasts so long.

#73 4 years ago

You people have got more money than sense, that is the problem. Instead of splashing out thousands of dollars on NIB pins and crying like babies on here, why don't you spend some of that cash on opening a lawsuit against Stern for selling incomplete bullshit products?

That will certainly make them shit their pants and think twice before shipping out pins. Don't do it for yourself, do it for the community. Do it for humanity!

#74 4 years ago

Remember when that dude threw a shoe at Gary during his expo speech?

Oh wait, that was George W Bush lol

#75 4 years ago

It's not a matter of customer service. You have a damaged delivery or a problem with a pin, they are awesome.

Incomplete code is a matter of product. We chose to buy the product in its current state.

Stern is going through changes right now. David is serious about coding concerns, TWD updates, three so far, and the avengers update are a good start. Since none of us have any idea what the programmers are presently doing, let's either try to wait a few more weeks, or use that contact button.

#76 4 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Stern is going through changes right now. David is serious about coding concerns, TWD updates, three so far, and the Avengers update are a good start. Since none of us have any idea what the programmers are presently doing, let's either try to wait a few more weeks, or use that contact button.

I agree with you on this Rick, TWD code is an excellent start and an actual Avengers xmas update as well.

David better be "serious" about code concerns.

Let's see what happens on this release. It's another chance for people to vote with their wallets.

#77 4 years ago
Quoted from Dis_Pinballer:

Steve is the project lead, thus he needs to take ownership, and fix the code.
Project leads direct quality control, and allocate software people on a project.
He talks about the problems, but doesn't give us a plan.

Wrong. SR designed the layout; he's not "project leader" (whatever that means in this context). His part of the game design is done. it's mgmt that decides when/if to allocate programmer resources to improve the code, and how much to allocate. And then it would be the programmers who would do the additional work, not SR.

#78 4 years ago

Anyone who has sold their Star Trek pin is going to be kicking themselves later, no matter what they think right now.

Steve Ritchie has said the code will be completed, and that Star Trek will be the ONLY pin in his house. Let that sink in. The King will only have one Pinball machine in his house, and it's going to be Star Trek.

ColorDMD has announced that Star Trek is one of the core 5 titles they will be working on internally at the company for 2015. Let that sink in. Colored dots only 2-3 years after it was released.

We know Stern is going to be retroactively releasing custom toppers for their last few games, that will interact with the code, much like TWD's aquarium. Let that sink in. An interactive topper to the already coolest color show on a Stern.

Star Trek already is a good game. It's about to become GREAT.

#79 4 years ago

And btw, Stern himself will never care. He lives in lala land and doesn't have his pulse on wtf is going on.

He doesn't read the internet and any negative FB posts get erased immediately. He thinks the complaints are coming from a small number of habitual whiners on Pinside.

The ONLY way it ever gets resolved is via the Distros and maybe David.

It has to be an organized state of affairs letter of some sort signed by all of us that want to see change.

#80 4 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

It's cute that you think Stern gives a shit about threads like these or that you would expect them to take any sort of action based on this posting. As stated numerous times before, contact them directly if you are unhappy with the product you purchased.

But they do read these threads. It has been stated many times as well.
And a lot of us have contacted them directly.
No reason we can't do both.
I talk with Steve Richie quite a bit at shows or through Facebook. He knows the information in these threads.
To stop them would be ludicrous.
They are not allowed to post on here, which I think is crazy, and it makes them look as if they just don't care. I can say with 100% certainty that he certainly does.

#81 4 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

Did your Star Trek burst into flames? I'm assuming you have been around long enough and decided to take the risk and buy a Stern title without Lyman involved. You gambled and lost. Better to just cut bait and sell and get something else.

I'm having troubles understanding how lyman programmed the cannon modes in acdc.

#82 4 years ago

I want new code as well but there is more than enough for me now, I can barely get 2 full missions complete and they both have mini wizard modes. Would much rather get updates than rushed complete code or simple code, no offense to B/W or other older manufactures but those pins are pretty easy in my opinion, the deeper Sterns are really deep, very tough to conquer. I just had a Demo man which was fun as hell but I beat the game in less than 2 weeks, same with STTNG fun yes but within 20 to 30 plays I got final frontier then it lost its appeal. This is just my opinion mind you so please take it easy. Now lets get to the main reason I'm OK with the time its taking for new code, STLE is stunning and one of the best pinball machines I've played. Great animations, a colour DMD will be awesome, a topper even better and with what I think will be mind blowing final code one of the best ever made.

#83 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Or we all go out and buy JJP. Say what you will about JJP, WOZ's code is freaking amazing . . . there is nothing like it at Stern.
If JJP sold a bunch of WOZ's and Hobbit's . . . that would get Stern's attention . . . better than anything else.

Just to be clear, you are saying Stern has 0 code that is the same as WOZ or 0 code that is as good as WOZ?

#84 4 years ago

I enjoy trek, but i think i've enjoyed it enough to move on before they drop another update.

#85 4 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Or we all go out and buy JJP. Say what you will about JJP, WOZ's code is freaking amazing . . . there is nothing like it at Stern.
If JJP sold a bunch of WOZ's and Hobbit's . . . that would get Stern's attention . . . better than anything else.

I'm sorry but I cannot agree with this. Woz code was not good on release. It took a long long time to get good. And I don't think the WoZ code is anywhere near as awesome as spiderman, acdc, or metallica code. I think it's on par with maybe lord of the rings or simpsons code but not better. I'm sorry but this just doesn't seem like a fair statement at all

#86 4 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

And I don't think the WoZ code is anywhere near as awesome as spiderman, acdc, or Metallica code. I think it's on par with maybe Lord of the Rings or Simpsons code but not better. I'm sorry but this just doesn't seem like a fair statement at all

I don't agree with that at all, think what you want about the theme and/or design but the code is every bit as good as SM and Ac/dc, if not better. Imo, as I own those 3 and have a ton of time on all of them.

And Lotr btw.

#87 4 years ago

Well now we know why ST code was put on hold again. It was to get Wrestlemania ready for CES 2015.

Rob

#88 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

And btw, Stern himself will never care. He lives in lala land and doesn't have his pulse on wtf is going on.
He doesn't read the internet and any negative FB posts get erased immediately. He thinks the complaints are coming from a small number of habitual whiners on Pinside.
The ONLY way it ever gets resolved is via the Distros and maybe David.
It has to be an organized state of affairs letter of some sort signed by all of us that want to see change.

I met Gary for the first time at Free Play Florida, bought his lunch, actually. Seemed like a decent enough guy but like most executives, you bet the Kool aid in strong, they certainly aren't likely to go out to the internet to find complaints about their company. It's just not something that happens.

You are totally right, the guys he really spends time with when he goes to these expos, is the distributors... Curly / LittleShopOfGames in Florida, in our case, though I'm sure folks like Trent @ Tilt Amusements. If you want someone who can really get in Gary's ear for stuff, go through these guys.

"My customers are telling me ____."

#89 4 years ago

Wow, allot of things are being said here: great game, sue them, and everything in between. Im relatively new to owning pins, just been 2 years for me, I have a couple and room for 2 or 3 more...

As a consumer of an item like this, it's pretty unbelievable that a product is delivered to the marketplace unfinished (i know, high tech does it all the time now), and then have to wait more than a year for it to be finished, but such is the case with ST.

There seems to be a consensus that private collectors are now Sterns most important customer base and have been for at least 5 years. Here are my polls to get this impression:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-pinball-machine-sales-what-private-collectors-vs-operators
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/when-did-private-collectors-surpass-operators-visa-via-pin-sales

Its safe to assume that operators are ok with unfinished code if the pin is making money. Pinball manufacturers may have gotten used to delivering unfinished products to operators and it seems to me that they expect collectors to wait just like operators do. Well, it is up to us to effectively communicate to the manufactures and the most effective way is not to buy until you have played the game to determine if you like the code.

I bought STLE NIB and I like the game it's good, not great. Ive bought SM and LOTR LE and these are great games, both older, both finished code. Im just not going to buy another unfinished pin, until we see Stern and all the rest change their mode of operandi. ...and with all due respect, after the XMEN code debacle, whoever pre-orders a future pin is just stupid.

The point is, as long as they have our money before they finish their product, they have no reason to change, unless we make them change.

Now were not talking about cars, or tv's or any other mass consumed product, we are talking pinball machines, how big can out consumer base be?? 10,000? If we all hold off on pre-purchased and tell the distributors why we are holding off, well that will be level of pressure that no company can ignore.

So the next time you (or a friend) is getting all excited about the next new title, just don't buy. And if you hear anymore whining after a new pin release about an incomplete code, just call 'em stupid, because Im sure thats what Gary Stern is thinking about all of us tonight...

#90 4 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

How many threads have been started complaining about the code on Star Trek as opposed to Metallica?

Oh there's a few metallica code threads. It's become the new 'cool thing to do' bashing on stern code, only when you do this are you a true pinsider It's also just as predictable that you read' the woz code is so awesome and finished blah blah..' completely overlooking that the game was out a year before it got anywhere near complete. I'd also bet that if games like monster bash were being released today, pinside would complain about them too. How anyone can possibly actually like this hobby with all the complaining is beyond me.

#91 4 years ago

I contacted Stern on their Facebook about accessories for Star Trek.
Accessories are for pins moving forward.
Nothing for Star Trek.
Steve is the project leader.
Star Trek is his baby, and he directed the development of the game.
He had a lot to say and do with the code, and directed the development of the current version.
He didn't write the code, but this pin has his name on it.
I agree with not buying nib anymore.
First nib and last nib for me.

#92 4 years ago

Jody the online propagandist...
image.jpg

#93 4 years ago

If I had to do it all over again I would buy ST again in a heartbeat! Maybe it's a little different for me because I didn't buy it NIB?

It's a top 30 pin right now and with a few tweaks it could be a top 10 pin.

Personally I like it better than MET and I really like MET. Does it need some attention? Yes....yes it does. There is a lot that could be improved. But like I said, it would go from good to great.

#94 4 years ago

Stern's next release is Wrestlemania...
It is like a star destroyer plummeting into the Death Star.
They deserve this failure.
image-885.jpg

#95 4 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I don't agree with that at all, think what you want about the theme and/or design but the code is every bit as good as SM and Ac/dc, if not better. Imo, as I own those 3 and have a ton of time on all of them.
And Lotr btw.

Since we aren't debating theme etc let's ignore that. How do you feel WOZ stacks up against ACDC or Metallica?

#96 4 years ago
Quoted from TVP:

I'm having troubles understanding how lyman programmed the cannon modes in acdc.

Lyman has quite a few ideas for acdc but obviously his time is being allocated for newer games. You really wanna compare ST to sterns crown jewel ACDC???

#97 4 years ago
Quoted from smassa:

Lyman has quite a few ideas for acdc but obviously his time is being allocated for newer games. You really wanna compare ST to sterns crown jewel ACDC???

I think you missed the sarcasm there. While ACDC is a wonderful game, nobody can say it's 100% completed. It's also been almost 2 years since the last substantial update. Did anyone ever officially say why the cannon modes are not programmed? No. Instead everyone has been left hanging with unsubstantiated rumours and faint hope one day there might be another update. 2 years is a long time to wait for - nothing.... Same crap with ST. We have hope of another update, but it could be 6 months or even never. There is absolutely no guarantee with Stern regardless who is programming the game or how popular it is as to what timetable the code will have. That's about the only truth we know unfortunately.

Rob

#98 4 years ago

Has Lyman ever actually said canon modes are in the works? It's my belief that he just scrapped these in favor of better ideas. The truth is, if he had implemented canon inserts (just because the designer put the inserts there) and left out say VIP pass, something the designer never conceived of, people would consider the game complete. Instead he went off his own direction and created a master piece. His reward? People complaining that the game isn't done because some inserts aren't used. Honestly, there's more in the code of Acdc as it is than most Bally / williams games. I'll take code the quality of acdc any day. And as long as people complain about acdc code, then if I were stern, I would ignore the whole lot feeling that there's no pleasing anyone.

#99 4 years ago

Operators don't care about code. I have bought sample pins off our local operator with sample code still in them after 20 years on site

#100 4 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

Operators don't care about code. I have bought sample pins off our local operator with sample code still in them after 20 years on site

The scene is changing now. More people buy them for their homes. Stern is burning bridges in droves. If only JJP was smart enough and release a game around 5K then Gary would drown in his own koolaid. I love stern games....but I hate how they handle their business. But then again I'm just the guy at the other and don't have a horse in this race

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