Stern Warning Post Shaker Motors


By mrobertso2

2 years ago


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#1 2 years ago

Spike systems can't handle aftermarket shakers.

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#2 2 years ago

I don't think its that the Spike system can't handle after market shakers. Its that aftermarket shakers are not being made necessarily to the same quality standards and design that Factory Shakers are being made to.

JJ

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from mrobertso2:

Spike systems can't handle aftermarket shakers.
image.jpg

Wonder if that's actually true or not?

-6
#4 2 years ago

Shaker motors are bad things all around. A pinball machine has a bunch of heavy things screwed to the bottom of a sheet of plywood. Continual shaking breaks these things.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Wonder if that's actually true or not?

Yes, of course it's true. The tech line started getting many calls after kiss started arriving in homes. People who were installing third-party shaker motors into their kiss machine were finding in some cases that their machine was locking up and becoming unplayable.

The source of the issue was traced to the third-party shaker and the way it handles electrical current.

This happend so frequently and so quickly that a service bulletin which issued to prevent further damage to machines globally.

The bulletin only applies to spike machines. As of the timing of this bulletin only a few third-party vendors are offering spike shaker options. I will not name them specifically.

Stern will have an official factory authorized spike shaker motor available for purchase from any authorized retailer or direct as an accessory from the store and shop online very soon. Estimated 2 to 4 weeks. This motor will be covered completely under the Stern warranty unlike third-party shaker motors.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

Yes, of course it's true.

Thanks for the info, but let's cut this crap please.

#9 2 years ago

Will older Stern shakers work with SPIKE, or does it need to specifically be a SPIKE certified shaker?

#10 2 years ago

It does not have to do with money directly. The spike system changes a lot of things. Many of the voltages used are different, communication paths are different, etc. Try installing a bill acceptor from a Walking Dead and see how well it works. People need to understand that the newest Stern machines share almost nothing with machines from 6 months ago.

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Will older Stern shakers work with SPIKE, or does it need to specifically be a SPIKE certified shake

It will need to be spike certified.

#12 2 years ago

I predict we'll see a spike in the sales of genuine Stern shaker motors.

#13 2 years ago

The Pinball Life SPIKE shaker motor works fine now in my game.

There was an earlier issue with a capacitor that needed to be clipped from the PBL shaker in order for it to work with SPIKE. It has since been resolved & taken care of.

My game works & shakes like a champ with the Pinball Life SPIKE shaker motor. Buy with confidence!

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Will older Stern shakers work with SPIKE, or does it need to specifically be a SPIKE certified shaker?

my understanding is that ANY shaker motor manufactured to work with a stern machine will cause the node board to fail if it has the 100uf 50v capacitor (this includes the official OEM stern rev 1 and 2 shaker motors) due to the changes in voltage requirements on the spike system

someone from stern should clarify this (and jared should be one that would know this)

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

my understanding is that ANY shaker motor manufactured to work with a stern machine will cause the node board to fail if it has the 100uf 50v capacitor (this includes the official OEM stern rev 1 and 2 shaker motors) due to the changes in voltage requirements on the spike system
someone from stern should clarify this (and jared should be one that would know this)

Official statement is: "Only OEM Stern Shaker Motors are covered under warranty."

If you install 3rd party equipment in your machine and it causes a failure, you will be on your own for the cost of repairs, even if the game was bought NIB 24 hours prior.

For this reason it is highly recommended that you use genuine OEM Stern products on your machine.

***

This issue only pertains to SPIKE machines at this time.

#16 2 years ago

jared, you still haven't answered the $2 question.

what happens if I install an official OEM v1 or v2 shaker motor in a WWE or KISS pinball? will it cook the node board just like the "unofficial" shaker motors?

#17 2 years ago

Kinda implies we can only be covered if we buy Stern certified toppers....LED's....etc.
Good thing they're expanding into that market, eh?

#18 2 years ago

^^

I want to know this too.

Also, let's open up a giant can of worms. Toppers are 3rd party products that plug into the game. Back box kits, Comet LEDs, undercab lighting, ramp lighting...

See where I'm going with this? Do I void my warranty when I install a mod?

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

jared, you still haven't answered the $2 question.
what happens if I install an official OEM v1 or v2 shaker motor in a WWE or KISS pinball? will it cook the node board just like the "unofficial" shaker motors?

Only spike shaker motors are compatible with spike system pinball machines. You cannot use previous generation shaker motors.

#20 2 years ago

How does one know if a shaker motor is from a third party? It's not like Stern sells these in their shop. How do I know if a distributor sells me a third party shaker motor?

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from Jared:

Only spike shaker motors are compatible with spike system pinball machines. You cannot use previous generation shaker motors.

Jared, I think you've done a fantastic job so far with Stern. I look forward to the updates and appreciate the fact you respond to questions and comments.

Based on that, you need to seriously look at how Stern interacts with the mod community. You can't 'warn' people that third party items will void the warranty. I understand your position, but Stern and the mod community are mutually beneficial.

I wouldn't have purchased Tron without the arcade mod. I wouldn't have bought Mustang or TWD without pinball browser. I wouldn't have purchased ACDC Pro without Hemi's bell mod.

On one of your posts, you showed ACDC with the Helen translite as an example of a great lineup. Mods, to include shakers & other stuff, make these games personal. I suggest backing away from the warnings and embracing the mod community.

#22 2 years ago

How much does a node board cost? Also, what is a node board? Are they only in Spike system games?

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

How does one know if a shaker motor is from a third party? It's not like Stern sells these in their shop. How do I know if a distributor sells me a third party shaker motor?

This is part of the problem. It's woefully under-advertised unless you're on pinside or Facebook.

So we have an OEM SAM shaker, OEM Spike shaker, pinballlife SAM shaker, Red Tremor shaker, and pinballlife Spike shaker.

And each has different and potentially damage-causing interoperability.

#24 2 years ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

Jared, I think you've done a fantastic job so far with Stern. I look forward to the updates and appreciate the fact you respond to questions and comments.
Based on that, you need to seriously look at how Stern interacts with the mod community. You can't 'warn' people that third party items will void the warranty. I understand your position, but Stern and the mod community are mutually beneficial.
I wouldn't have purchased Tron without the arcade mod. I wouldn't have bought Mustang or TWD without pinball browser. I wouldn't have purchased ACDC Pro without Hemi's bell mod.
On one of your posts, you showed ACDC with the Helen translite as an example of a great lineup. Mods, to include shakers & other stuff, make these games personal. I suggest backing away from the warnings and embracing the mod community.

Forgive my Ignorance but what is the pinball Browser?

10
#25 2 years ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

Jared, I think you've done a fantastic job so far with Stern. I look forward to the updates and appreciate the fact you respond to questions and comments.
Based on that, you need to seriously look at how Stern interacts with the mod community. You can't 'warn' people that third party items will void the warranty. I understand your position, but Stern and the mod community are mutually beneficial.

Sure they can, and all manufacturers do.....if you buy a mod and it fries your games MPU, how is Stern somehow liable to repair it under warranty? The game was working perfectly, and an untested/unproven part damages the game, its the fault of who sold the mod, or who installed it. Not sterns responsibility to pony up 20-30 node boards, when they did nothing to cause damage.....what's next, "I dropped my game, Stern should pay To repair it!"

If you buy a custom topper, and the designer doesn't consider amperage requirements, recommends to plug it into J120 and it melts the connector on the board, and blows a fuse.....does anyone really think Stern should warranty?

#26 2 years ago

Makes perfect sense. They're not saying you cannot mod your machine, just that they will not pay for any damage caused by a mod. If you add a third party topper and shortly thereafter a leg falls off, it'll be covered just fine.

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from ovfdfireman:

Sure they can, and all manufacturers do.....if you buy a mod and it fries your games MPU, how is Stern somehow liable to repair it under warranty? The game was working perfectly, and an untested/unproven part damages the game, its the fault of who sold the mod, or who installed it. Not sterns responsibility to pony up 20-30 node boards, when they did nothing to cause damage.....what's next, "I dropped my game, Stern should pay To repair it!"
If you buy a custom topper, and the designer doesn't consider amperage requirements, recommends to plug it into J120 and it melts the connector on the board, and blows a fuse.....does anyone really think Stern should warranty?

Agree with this 100%...... as long as stern only voids the warranty for damages caused by the 3rd party mod. I think some people may be confused thinking the full warranty may be void for any damages after a 3rd party mod is installed, even if not caused by the mod. I'm not taking it that way, just assuming that may be some people's perception.

#28 2 years ago

Board damage? WTF?

#29 2 years ago

No it isn't true. I have been making shakers (QUAKE) for the last year, Mine do not have the capacitor, never have had. Whilst it's true that the others may have blown node boards, that's not ALL 3rd party shakers.

#30 2 years ago

Shaker gate!!!!

When will the madness end

#31 2 years ago

Maybe Stern needs to come up with a list of sellers of their shaker motors. How the F*#€ is one to know which Shaker motor is Stern approved?

#32 2 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Maybe Stern needs to come up with a list of sellers of their shaker motors. How the F*#€ is one to know which Shaker motor is Stern approved?

Easily, it'll be the one only THEY sell!

-1
#33 2 years ago

This seems like a fairly obvious attempt by Stern to "corner the market" on shakers. Thing is, if Stern's part prices weren't so exorbitantly expensive there would be no need to.

Stern needs to take a reality check on their replacement part and add-on prices or they will continued to be easily undercut by practically everyone else. Stern part pricing is outrageous gouging.

IMO

#34 2 years ago
Quoted from ovfdfireman:

Sure they can, and all manufacturers do.....if you buy a mod and it fries your games MPU, how is Stern somehow liable to repair it under warranty? The game was working perfectly, and an untested/unproven part damages the game, its the fault of who sold the mod, or who installed it. Not sterns responsibility to pony up 20-30 node boards, when they did nothing to cause damage.....what's next, "I dropped my game, Stern should pay To repair it!"
If you buy a custom topper, and the designer doesn't consider amperage requirements, recommends to plug it into J120 and it melts the connector on the board, and blows a fuse.....does anyone really think Stern should warranty?

I understand what you're saying, but I never said Stern should pay for damages caused by mods. I recommended to Jared that he reevaluate his message to customers regarding mods. As a Stern dealer, you may have a different perspective.

#35 2 years ago

I read your post as dealing with tone and semantics. Instead of "warnings" and "do not use" imperatives, they could have been less blustery and more open to working to resolve the problems instead of selling more motors. I didn't read anything about warranty repair in your post.

Quoted from Mudflaps:

I understand what you're saying, but I never said Stern should pay for damages caused by mods. I recommended to Jared that he reevaluate his message to customers regarding mods. As a Stern dealer, you may have a different perspective.

17
#37 2 years ago

Pinside hurts now. How can simple facts turn into these discussions. Only new spike shakers on spike machines.. Period!
And yes modify something and the manufacturer does not have to warranty damage traced back to that modification but does have to honor warranty non associated to it. That has always been in place with all products.
And yes third party folks will make safe spike shakers but know the warranty deal going in.
Now argue for five more pages and blame Jared.

#38 2 years ago
Quoted from Hwawonyu:

Pinside hurts now. How can simple facts turn into these discussions. Only new spike shakers on spike machines.. Period!
And yes modify something and the manufacturer does not have to warranty damage traced back to that modification but does have to honor warranty non associated to it. That has always been in place with all products.
And yes third party folks will make safe spike shakers but know the warranty deal going in.
Now argue for five more pages and blame Jared.

The fact that there were Spike only shakers just recently came to light. Not instantly apparent to the community writ large.

#39 2 years ago

Are the "red tremor" motors that CT was blowing out at Allentown "Spike" ready? Somehow I doubt it.

#40 2 years ago

Yet again, a vendor makes a simple warning and it turns in a mudfest of armchair pundits.

It is very simple.

You buy a car, you put a 3rd party turbo on it and you blow the engine, did you expect the manufacture to honor the warranty????? No.

Do you you expect the manufacturer to own the fail because they did not list each and every aftermarket turbo you could use under warranty???? No.

No difference.

No where did they say ANYTHING in the SB about toppers or other mods,,, yet the mud flings....

If you go and put a 3rd party shaker in without the cap that causes NO PROBLEMS, then good for you. Congrats. But if you blow the board, you were warned. The manufacturer warned you that there was a chance it would happen.

Eventually the 3rd party shaker folks will have to mark/test their shakers as Spike compatible. And the problem ends.

#41 2 years ago

This isn't a mud fest or an argument at all. We're all having a civil and informative dialogue with varying opinions.

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from Mudflaps:

I understand what you're saying, but I never said Stern should pay for damages caused by mods. I recommended to Jared that he reevaluate his message to customers regarding mods. As a Stern dealer, you may have a different perspective.

You mean as a mod maker.....I might have a different perspective? Making mods for games is what I do.....been our primary business for years. I agree they should not simply void the warranty just because a mod is installed. I am simply referring to damage caused by said mod, should not be covered or qualify for warranty. Sounds as if we agree...

Quoted from Patofnaud:

You buy a car, you put a 3rd party turbo on it and you blow the engine, did you expect the manufacture to honor the warranty????? No.
Do you you expect the manufacturer to own the fail because they did not list each and every aftermarket turbo you could use under warranty???? No.
No difference.

It seems simple, it's not at all out of line for Stern to say we will not warranty damages caused by 3rd party add ons

#43 2 years ago

I'd be interested in the technical specs between the stern spike motor and the 3rd parties motors that are causing the issues, winding, power requirements, etc. Is it simply an issue that spike can not deliver the power necessary for 3rd party motors, and the Stern Spike motor is just a weaker motor that can be powered by it? Or is it a design change?

Caps are used on DC brushed motors to smooth them out. There are initial spikes (no pun) every time they are turned on. Since these systems use PWM for speed control, a cap is absolutely necessary. Pulse-width-modulation (PWM) is just turning something off and on digitally rapidly to produce a faster or slower speeds. Clipping that cap off makes no sense, unless there is one mounted on the Spike board prior to going to the shaker motor (good idea, vibrating part with cap across solder lugs=bad idea over time). Having two filtering caps would essentially just add more filtering, I don't see how it could cause issues with the way the new system works, unless the charging of the caps is the issue. So it must be an overall design change, less current available on the new system, weaker new shaker motor running lower voltage/amperage.

Anyone with any knowledge of this? Just curious because it doesn't seem like anything that would be difficult to remedy for those that have 3rd party shakers and don't wanna damage their pins. If it is as simple as clip a cap, then people should have that option. Even a monkey could clip a capacitor off a motor without f-ing it up.

#44 2 years ago
Quoted from ovfdfireman:

You mean as a mod maker.....I might have a different perspective? Making mods for games is what I do.....been our primary business for years. I agree they should not simply void the warranty just because a mod is installed

Yup, totally agree. And I enjoy your mods, very high quality. I thought you were a Stern distro, sorry about that.

#45 2 years ago

I don't blame stern in the least for making a system that requires their shaker motor. I don't think there are many of us that wouldn't run a company the same way.

#46 2 years ago
Quoted from inhomearcades:

I don't blame stern in the least for making a system that requires their shaker motor. I don't think there are many of us that wouldn't run a company the same way.

I don't think they made a system that only works with there shaker.. Its not like a K Cup 2.0 machine. Its that another companies Aftermarket shaker motor was built to different specs for what ever reason and it was causing issues. Stern Can Only control quality/specs of there products. They have little to no control over other vendors

JJ

#47 2 years ago
Quoted from cody_chunn:

This seems like a fairly obvious attempt by Stern to "corner the market" on shakers.

No, they designed a new system. Spike.

When they did this, they didn't buy every mod out there and make their system work for every mod available. That would be near impossible.

Mod sellers need to see if what they make works, or make a new mod that will.

LTG : )™

#48 2 years ago

Here's a PDF that I received from Pinball Life about the issue.

pbl.pdf
#49 2 years ago

Right, but they still don't want prospective customers buying anyone else's motors (or anything for that matter). As well they should as a company for profit. Still, it seems they spelled out the problem/fix pretty well, so good on them for that. Also good on them for the quick response to keep more games from sustaining damage.

No, they should not warranty any damage caused by non-factory add-ons or mods of any kind.

Yes, they should sell their add-ons and replacement parts at non-extortion levels.

IMO

Quoted from LTG:

No, they designed a new system. Spike.
When they did this, they didn't buy every mod out there and make their system work for every mod available. That would be near impossible.
Mod sellers need to see if what they make works, or make a new mod that will.
LTG : )™

#50 2 years ago

There is a legal mandate regarding warranties and what they will and will not cover. It is called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

In a nut shell, companies that sell "consumer" items are NOT required to offer a warranty. But if they do, their warranty MUST comply with the MMWA.

That being said, a company is not allowed to void the ENTIRE warranty on an item if you modify or change one particular part on the item in question.

Let's use cars for an example as this is the easiest analog. If you replace the headlights on your shiny new ride with super bright blue xenon laser and the excessive current draw from these lights burns out the headlight switch, the manufacturer is not required to honor the warranty for that repair.

In general, the manufacturer is not required to honor any warranty claim if the failure can be shown to be caused by misuse, modification or lack of maintenance.

However, let's say the engine springs a nice oil gusher from the valve cover gasket. Since the odds of your super fancy headlight bulbs causing this failure are zero, the manufacturer must honor the warranty on this component.

This is essentially the same situation with Stern. At least they were nice about it and put out a service bulletin to warn everyone. Stern has already stated that aftermarket shaker motors can damage the node board. So if you install one on your SPIKE equipped pin and it fries the node board Stern is will not honor the warranty on that repair.

On the other hand, if you installed an aftermarket shaker motor and the DMD display failed, well the shaker motor has a very low likelihood of causing a DMD failure so Stern should be obligated to honor the warranty on that repair.

It's pretty simple really.

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