(Topic ID: 172044)

Stern 'Vault Editions' to continue after SM?


By Brickshot

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 52 posts
  • 31 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by PinballAlley
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    There are 52 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 3 years ago

    I'm wondering if anyone with inside information on Stern knows whether or not they plan to continue offering 'Vault Editions' on occasion? I have heard that the latest SM VE may not have been as big of a hit as they were hoping and possibly not worth all the work put into it? So I'm really wondering if they have any thought of scrapping the notion of VE's and just focusing on new games? Anyone hear anything? I have been looking to get an LOTR but with prices now creeping up around 7k (?) I am not sure if there is risk there that a brand new VE will get announced in the near future in the 6k range.

    #2 3 years ago

    There's two for a little over 5k and one well under right now.

    #3 3 years ago
    Quoted from Brickshot:

    I'm wondering if anyone with inside information on Stern knows whether or not they plan to continue offering 'Vault Editions' on occasion? I have heard that the latest SM VE may not have been as big of a hit as they were hoping and possibly not worth all the work put into it? So I'm really wondering if they have any thought of scrapping the notion of VE's and just focusing on new games? Anyone hear anything? I have been looking to get an LOTR but with prices now creeping up around 7k (?) I am not sure if there is risk there that a brand new VE will get announced in the near future in the 6k range.

    Don't spend 7k on a LOTR (unless you want to buy mine lol ). As heatman said, they should be found for +/- 5k.
    In general don't hold your breath waiting on VEs. If you see a deal on a nice one now jump on it.

    #4 3 years ago
    Quoted from Heatman:

    There's two for a little over 5k and one well under right now.

    Where would you value an HUO, low play LOTR that still looks new? Thoughts?

    #5 3 years ago

    I hope so, with the success of TWD I thing the time is right to revisit CSI. LCD, colored LEDs, perfection

    #6 3 years ago

    Where the F are LOTR's creeping up to $7? Keep looking, be patient, you'll find one at a normal price. It's one of Sterns largest production runs ever...it's common, and there likely won't be a VE of it.

    Stern's schedule got shifted a bit with the only major release this year being Ghostbusters...Aerosmith is pretty much confirmed to be next, Star Wars seems like a pretty solid rumor...and there are a few other possible other titles I'm hearing about. Whether they actually all hit next year is another story...but they have plenty of new games cooking up, doesn't seem to be any reason for a new Vault in 2017. Even if there was...there's no guarantee it'd be LOTR. Most are quite certain LOTR is done and not coming back....but again - it's common.

    Everyone should remember the main reason IMve exists:
    -They didn't make many of them in the first place and it became popular later.
    -It was CHEAP as F to make
    -The license was still relevant with IM being in all the Marvel movies

    #7 3 years ago

    Hi All,
    The problem with the VE is that the way most licensing is applied. I was discussing with my Stern reps about the possibility of VE editions of a few games. It seems most licensing not only spells out the number of units but also puts the licensing "On the Clock." Once the date passes it becomes difficult for the company to release more units without an entire new contract. I am pretty sure there won't be a Tron VE or LOTR VE and so on. The deal they have with the Marvel people must allow for additional units after the first run. I am sorry some folks feel less than cheery about the SM VE. I really like it. I am an original Spider Man guy. I could not wait until the next issue hit the stands. So a Spiderman pin that captures the vibe of my old comic books is a thrill.

    -Jerry

    #8 3 years ago

    I had a HUO LOTR that looked great and sold it for $5200 6 weeks ago.

    #9 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinballAlley:

    I am sorry some folks feel less than cheery about the SM VE. I really like it.

    I was excited for it, but the new sound package killed it for me. The voices and writing are just terrible. The "Tell MJ" mode where each shot gets you Peter saying "YES." or MJ saying "NO." is one of the goofiest things Stern has done since Beast in X-Men. If I ever revisit Spider-Man in my collection it will be the original...J.K. Simmons as JJJ is sooooo much better than the guy in the VE...as are all the movie actor clips.

    #10 3 years ago

    I really hope they do a Star Trek the Original Series re-skin on the ST Premium. I'd sell a lung to get that game.

    #11 3 years ago

    I know this will be unpopular.

    IMVE was basically a rerun. At a higher price.

    Then came SMVE and it had new toys, new sounds, new graphics based on a different Era Spiderman. And at a much higher price. The 're-theme' was not too popular with the older crowd.

    Then came BM66....

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from DerGoetz:

    IMVE was basically a rerun. At a higher price.

    Not much higher....and lower than what used ones were selling for. However, you got all LED lights, LED in Monger's chest, and the incredible high-res shiny foil cabinet decals!

    #13 3 years ago

    I think Tron as a SMVE treatment meaning new art backglass at least, new dots maybe LCD maybe arcade with LCD too for $8000 it'd probably sell too.

    LOTR would probably cost $6600 if pro machines are going for $5000 now.

    #14 3 years ago

    IMHO I think Tron will eventually will be a VE. I mentioned it to Gary and his partner at the Expo I'm waiting for one.

    -1
    #15 3 years ago

    Point is, BM66 is the third VE

    Quoted from Rarehero:Not much higher....and lower than what used ones were selling for. However, you got all LED lights, LED in Monger's chest, and the incredible high-res shiny foil cabinet decals!

    Point is BM66 is the third VE so yes, one can expect that they will continue doing these.

    I am more hoping for all-new releases than VEs

    #16 3 years ago

    If they do make future VE's, I hope they just stick with the original design and throw in some LED's. Screw the remake and the huge price increase. It was popular for a reason, don't change it.

    #17 3 years ago
    Quoted from DerGoetz:

    Point is, BM66 is the third VE

    Point is BM66 is the third VE so yes, one can expect that they will continue doing these.
    I am more hoping for all-new releases than VEs

    B66 isn't really a VE, though. Aside from one same toy and Batman being a character, it's a completely different game. Spider-Man, while re-skinned with comic book characters, still has the same exact layout, characters, code/mode logic.

    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from Brickshot:

    latest SM VE may not have been as big of a hit as they were hoping and possibly not worth all the work put into it?

    Then maybe they should stop dicking with proven formulas and themes and just remake it as it was. Duh.

    Err....what yuriijos said.

    #19 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    B66 isn't really a VE, though. Aside from one same toy and Batman being a character, it's a completely different game. Spider-Man, while re-skinned with comic book characters, still has the same exact layout, characters, code/mode logic.

    I was thinking the same thing. I definitely don't consider it a vault in any way.

    Quoted from Frax:

    Then maybe they should stop dicking with proven formulas and themes and just remake it as it was. Duh.
    Err....what yuriijos said.

    And maybe that will be their thinking? Although I think they need a few new attactive sales features (cabinet art, or light mods, etc.) Just not a complete re-theme like SM VE basically was. Otherwise, it's not any sort of special vault edition, it's just a new run (didn't TSPP have like 5 or 6 runs spread out over several years?) I'm just wondering if anyone has heard any talk of this internally at Stern and has any idea which way they may be leaning on doing these VE's in the future or forget them altogether?

    #20 3 years ago

    Was there ever that much a demand for a SMVE?
    Seems to me it was an easy remake, in that it's BOM is relatively low and the licence was easy. Stern seem to be testing the waters for VEs post IMVE.
    LoTR and Tron is were the demand seems to be for a VE...

    #21 3 years ago
    Quoted from fatbeerdrinker:

    Was there ever that much a demand for a SMVE?
    Seems to me it was an easy remake, in that it's BOM is relatively low and the licence was easy. Stern seem to be testing the waters for VEs post IMVE.
    LoTR and Tron is were the demand seems to be for a VE...

    If LOTR's are only selling in the 5000-5500 range I don't think the demand is strong enough to justify a VE then. Tron is a possibility. Aren't ACDC prices for a Premium creeping toward 7k? Another edition for one of those would probably sell well (or even just another run of Luci's?)

    #22 3 years ago
    Quoted from fatbeerdrinker:

    Was there ever that much a demand for a SMVE?
    Seems to me it was an easy remake, in that it's BOM is relatively low and the licence was easy. Stern seem to be testing the waters for VEs post IMVE.
    LoTR and Tron is were the demand seems to be for a VE...

    Agreed.
    LOTR and Tron would be the most popular titles for a Vault Edition.

    #23 3 years ago
    Quoted from JonH123:

    Agreed.
    LOTR and Tron would be the most popular titles for a Vault Edition.

    Which is weird since they made more than enough to satisfy market demand. Tip to new pinheads: Buy used games, learn to shop them out. They end up as good as new and are cheaper.

    Quoted from Brickshot:

    Aren't ACDC prices for a Premium creeping toward 7k? Another edition for one of those would probably sell well (or even just another run of Luci's?)

    The problem is re-licensing. They can't just do a quick small run of games....the licensor will usually want as much as the original 3 year/thousands of units license...perhaps more if they think they didn't get enough of the first time.

    Quoted from fatbeerdrinker:

    Was there ever that much a demand for a SMVE?

    Not really, but it's a universally loved/well reviewed game...and the demand for games with hand drawn art is there. So, it was a good idea to take a great game and de-photoshop it....unfortunately most people weren't happy with the Spidey art era chosen, and the excellent voice package of the original was replaced with really bad writing and acting. Good idea, bad execution.

    #24 3 years ago
    Quoted from Brickshot:

    Although I think they need a few new attactive sales features (cabinet art, or light mods, etc.)

    I'm personally okay without any of that stuff and giving a fair price.

    THAT SAID.... they need to make smart decisions that fit the game. And putting strobing LEDS in a game that was heavily reliant on fading incandescent bulbs to indicate different game state was not. Nor was losing callouts that pretty much everyone universally agrees MADE THE GAME. And that's a huge risk with LOTR, unfortunately, just as it was with Spider-Man. I can get past the art and callouts and new (lazy) dots on SMVE, but losing the callouts was BLEH and the LEDs was a deal-killer since nobody could be bothered to answer my questions about it. Ask my wife.. I would've sold all my other games for that had it been a straight remake at 5200...heh.

    Tron is just ripe for doing a retro VE.. I honestly don't see how they can pass up that opportunity. It doesn't even need any playfield changes, just the old original Tron things to replace the Legacy stuff. Lightcycles and disc...direct replacement. Change "Clu" to "Sark", change the quorra shot to be "tank" and Gem to "Bit"...."Follow Flynn" to "Follow Yori"... this stuff is practically a no-brainer. You don't need some wierd overhaul of the rules and whatnot. I'm pretty sure that Legacy was not most people's first thought when the name "Tron" comes up...much as I personally like it. This is probably the exception to the rule for me as far as re-themed releases would go.

    100% agree they need to stick to things like cabinet art and translites, add protectors where it makes sense and improve reliability of the game mechs....but DON'T JACK WITH THE CORE CONTENT OF THE GAME IN ALMOST ALL CASES. IMVE was beautiful. Love playing that game on location.

    #25 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Buy used games, learn to shop them out. They end up as good as new and are cheaper.

    That's not really an option with Tron, specifically, thanks to the thousands of dollars of mods that most people installed (Myself included, on TWO Trons!) and they don't want to take a bath on.

    #26 3 years ago

    expect all future vaults to be reworked like bm66, lcd, modified layout, etc...Just imagine lotr done up like bm66

    #27 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    The problem is re-licensing. They can't just do a quick small run of games....the licensor will usually want as much as the original 3 year/thousands of units license...perhaps more if they think they didn't get enough of the first time.

    But isn't re-licensing still an issue for Tron or LOTR? Why is it different for ACDC?

    #28 3 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    This is probably the exception to the rule for me as far as re-themed releases would go.

    I also like the idea of a Gen 1 Transformers pin though I've heard the TF layout isn't the best.

    #29 3 years ago
    Quoted from Brickshot:

    But isn't re-licensing still an issue for Tron or LOTR? Why is it different for ACDC?

    It's not. Word in the street is that ACDC wanted too much money for an extension.

    That being said - Stern has their Pinball Arcade virtual pins now ...I wonder if license negotiations for those virtual games will include provisions for re-runs.

    #30 3 years ago

    Why would Stern have any reason to say they will never do a VE again? Options are left open, end of thread.

    #31 3 years ago
    Quoted from Brickshot:

    But isn't re-licensing still an issue for Tron or LOTR? Why is it different for ACDC?

    Since Disney has effectively killed Another Tron movie, and pretty much wiped all presence from the parks, it would be safe to assume they won't sign a license for it.

    -1
    #32 3 years ago

    I just talked with my Stern rep yesterday about Tron. He told me the odds were slim to none. Disney holds the license. They are hard to negotiate with. The feeling was they could not sell enough units to make it work. Even though we didn't talk about LOTR specifically, I feel it will not come to a vault edition for the same reasons. I feel like I do know what the next three pins will be and none of them are VE releases. I am currently doing a complete restoration on a LOTR. We have sold a bunch of them and the demand is there but it is nowhere near the demand I get for TRON.

    take care-Jerry

    #33 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinballAlley:

    I just talked with my Stern rep yesterday about Tron. He told me the odds were slim to none. Disney holds the license. They are hard to negotiate with. The feeling was they could not sell enough units to make it work. Even though we didn't talk about LOTR specifically, I feel it will not come to a vault edition for the same reasons. I feel like I do know what the next three pins will be and none of them are VE releases. I am currently doing a complete restoration on a LOTR. We have sold a bunch of them and the demand is there but it is nowhere near the demand I get for TRON.
    take care-Jerry

    Thank you for the info! That's all I was hoping to hear. Just some thoughts on where Stern might be heading (I know they'll never just publicly declare no more VE's or something.) But to know they're focusing more on new games instead of bringing back old titles is good news to me. I have to think the lackluster response to SM VE in particular has them realizing no VE is a slam dunk.

    #34 3 years ago

    You can guarantee that if money is left on the table, and Stern can re-aquire the license for that game, they are going to produce it... it's just when.

    #35 3 years ago
    Quoted from Brickshot:

    Thank you for the info! That's all I was hoping to hear. Just some thoughts on where Stern might be heading (I know they'll never just publicly declare no more VE's or something.) But to know they're focusing more on new games instead of bringing back old titles is good news to me. I have to think the lackluster response to SM VE in particular has them realizing no VE is a slam dunk.

    I think if Stern had priced Spidey like a Pro, they would have sold more. I get why they charged more - they made it look like a Premium (cool etched rails, shaker)...but at the end of the day, pin peeps know it was a reskin, so we know they saved on design and development costs ...and those savings weren't passed on to us. So we passed.

    #36 3 years ago
    Quoted from dsuperbee:

    Since Disney has effectively killed Another Tron movie, and pretty much wiped all presence from the parks, it would be safe to assume they won't sign a license for it.

    They have just built a new Tron ride at China Disneyland. Looks great too.

    #37 3 years ago
    Quoted from stoptap:

    They have just built a new Tron ride at China Disneyland. Looks great too.

    Yup, that's why I said 'pretty much.'

    -1
    #38 3 years ago

    If Stern made an LOTR VE that went the way of SMVE in terms of a brand new, hand-drawn art package that didn't depend on the likenesses from the film, would the licensing still be a big issue? I would love a more classic, hand-drawn art package, and although the original callouts from Gimli are pretty awesome, I would settle for new ones if necessary to get a VE.

    #39 3 years ago

    Stern will pretty much make a Tron VE

    #40 3 years ago
    Quoted from Radagast:

    If Stern made an LOTR VE that went the way of SMVE in terms of a brand new, hand-drawn art package that didn't depend on the likenesses from the film, would the licensing still be a big issue? I would love a more classic, hand-drawn art package, and although the original callouts from Gimli are pretty awesome, I would settle for new ones if necessary to get a VE.

    Really? Just buy a LOTR that currently exists! Sterns not going to do a generic version and I don't know why you'd want that anyway...LOTR is great because of the excellent music, callouts and clips from the films. Please explain to me why VE is so important to you that you'd want a completely bastardized version of this game to get one?

    #41 3 years ago

    An excerpt from Nate Shiver's Coast2Coast podcast interview with George Gomez at the 2016 TPF :

    GG: “The vault editions are great because ... it satisfies a demand from the community. You know, a lot of people that missed out on Iron Man originally, have bought the new one. Uh, some people even that wore out their Iron Man or that owned it for a while and moved it on and then decided they want it back have bought the new one – right? And so, so the vaults are a great opportunity to make technical improvements and durability improvements, and in some cases, aesthetic improvements. The Iron ... uh I mean ... Spider Man came out ... I was very happy with how it came out. You know, those dots are great - you know, the animation's all hand animated a hundred percent. No digitized dots. Um ... you know, so I was very very happy with that.”

    NS: “And I’m assuming we’ll see more of those in the future?”

    GG: “Yeah you will. You will. And ... you know it’s … you want to know what’s coming? It’s the usual suspects. Uh, you know, you can pretty much guess. It’s what people want. We try to give you …”

    NS: “Sharky’s Shootout.”

    GG: “We try to give you… you know... we try to give you what you want. I mean, there’s even been some conversation that we can go really far back into the Stern catalog you know.”

    #42 3 years ago
    Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

    really far back into the Stern catalog you know.

    I would be up for either early DE like Time Machine or Torpedo Alley or Stern SS like Seawitch or Star Gazer. I don't know how easy it would be for them to do those though.

    #43 3 years ago

    Sopranos reskin as The Godfather?

    #44 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Really? Just buy a LOTR that currently exists! Sterns not going to do a generic version and I don't know why you'd want that anyway...LOTR is great because of the excellent music, callouts and clips from the films. Please explain to me why VE is so important to you that you'd want a completely bastardized version of this game to get one?

    +1000. LOTR is great because it is the whole package. Taking the callouts away would wreck it. It's the theme, rules, calls, shots, everything made it a home run. Is it perfect? No, the art is just ok, and I've never been a fan of the POTD (almost stopped my from owning it the first time). But all together, that game is one of the best ever made.

    I think IMVE was a one off. A re-run that was cheaper than the originals were selling for on the open market, and included some improvements. I think any vault / re-run / reskin going forward will be premium pricing (or higher). And I wouldn't wait to buy an original game over waiting for a vault. Get it, play it, enjoy it.

    #45 3 years ago

    Going "really far back into the Stern catalog"...Guns N Roses?

    #46 3 years ago
    Quoted from Sleaterkiss:

    Going "really far back into the Stern catalog"...Guns N Roses?

    Only if it has bucket head.

    #47 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinballAlley:

    I just talked with my Stern rep yesterday about Tron. He told me the odds were slim to none.

    He's full of crap. I had that same conversation with Gary Stern himself... 1.5 years before IM VE magically appeared against those same odds. General rule is this: if Stern can sell 400 units of something, they will re-license, and Stern has a fantastic relationship with Disney/Marvel. It's literally that simple.

    #48 3 years ago

    What I wouldn't give for a TSPP VE make it happen stern

    #49 3 years ago
    Quoted from venom112:

    What I wouldn't give for a TSPP VE make it happen stern

    Why? It's one of the most common games made by Stern. For the life of me I can't understand why some people want new editions of games that are so easily purchased in great condition at a decent price ...you can have it now! Easily!

    #50 3 years ago

    Agreed. Mine just sold for the same price as a NIB pro with a ton of mods and it's never had a single issue. TSPP is built like a tank, they made a bazillion, and the artwork is perfection... literally nothing to improve. And of course they'd probably charge 8k for it if they kept the toys and layout the same. So let's stop putting crazy ideas in Stern's head and get back into talking about how cheap and easy it would be to do another run of Tron Pro's

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