(Topic ID: 81341)

Stern trying to drop a bombshell? New Patent Application for color changing LEDs

By DCFAN

10 years ago


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  • Latest reply 10 years ago by iceman44
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    There are 99 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
    #1 10 years ago

    I am starting this new thread to replace the one that got sidetracked with personal attacks:

    http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-trying-to-drop-a-bombshell

    I am sure the mods can ban anyone that gets too personal this time now that everyone has been warned.

    Patent application title: COIN OPERATED GAME DEVICE USING LEDS TO PROVIDE GENERAL ILLUMINATION
    Inventors: Steve Ritchie (Lombard, IL, US) Lyman Sheats (Hoffman Estates, IL, US)
    Assignees: STERN PINBALL, INC.

    Publication date: 2014-02-06
    Patent application number: 20140035227

    Abstract:

    A coin operated amusement game such as a pinball machine having a playing surface wherein tri-colored LEDs are provided to illuminate the game playing surface.
    Claims:

    1. A coin operated amusement game, comprising: a playfield including a plurality of features which are utilized to define play of the coin operated amusement game; and a plurality of tri-colored LEDs positioned in cooperation with the playfield to illuminate a playing surface of the playfield in a one of a plurality of different colors.

    http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20140035227

    #2 10 years ago

    Didn't they use these in Star Trek?

    #3 10 years ago
    Quoted from DocRotCod:

    Didn't they use these in Star Trek?

    This application is from August 2012 (ACDC), well before Star Trek.

    10
    #4 10 years ago

    Since when is using RGB LEDs to "generally illuminate" something an "invention?"

    Perhaps I should apply for a patent for, "The use of a battery-powered portable light device to illuminate the rear portion of my closet?"

    #5 10 years ago

    This could be very bad for people like Jersey Jack, or completely meaningless. I doubt Stern would sue the pinball start ups right when pinball is starting to recover. They don't come across as the ruthless capitalist types. Otherwise they wouldn't have stuck it out in a dead industry for decades,

    #6 10 years ago

    This is old stuff that is just being rehashed.

    Nothing to see here folks...just move along....

    #7 10 years ago
    Quoted from seatownpinhead:

    This could be very bad for people like Jersey Jack, or completely meaningless.

    Jersey Jack likely has prior art and can prove they were using RGB LEDs in GI before Stern. Plus I'm sure there are other people like Gerry Stellenburg of Metamorphic who might have even earlier examples.

    I've worked on patent cases before. I helped Amazon invalidate a patent that someone else brought to bear against them for online surveys and shopping cart systems. Amazon wasn't the first, but they knew the people who held the patent weren't either. Their legal team found some code I wrote in the early 90s that pre-dated the patent and that blew out the other guy's IP claim.

    #8 10 years ago
    Quoted from PinballHelp:

    Since when is using RGL LEDs to "generally illuminate" something an "invention"

    ^THIS^

    #9 10 years ago

    ibtl?

    #11 10 years ago
    #12 10 years ago

    A lot of patents out there are around new uses for existing technology. A lot of patents also seem so obvious you wonder how they could possibly get granted. If you think this example is bad, you should see some software patents that have been granted. Unfortunately the only people making money off of patents are patent lawyers and patent trolls.

    #13 10 years ago
    Quoted from ek77:

    was williams a bad company for there pat also stern filed for a led pat before JJP first game came out

    It doesn't really matter if their first game already came out or not. If they can prove they were playing around with it before Stern filed the patent, they're fine. If some random guy can prove they were working on it in their garage five years ago with pipe dreams of making a pinball machine, that guy would also be able to use the color changing LEDs in a pinball machine.

    #14 10 years ago
    Quoted from paul_8788:

    A lot of patents out there are around new uses for existing technology. A lot of patents also seem so obvious you wonder how they could possibly get granted. If you think this example is bad, you should see some software patents that have been granted. Unfortunately the only people making money off of patents are patent lawyers and patent trolls.

    It's funny any time Microsoft registers a patent for something like the double click; the entire internet throws a fit about the death star. Most times, big companies file patents just so that their legal department has ammunition if some patent lawyer tries to sue (see the Amazon example above)

    #15 10 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    I am starting this new thread to replace the one that got sidetracked with personal attacks:

    http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-trying-to-drop-a-bombshell

    I am sure the mods can ban anyone that gets too personal this time now that everyone has been warned.

    Yes, this is a good restart on an interesting topic worthy of some discussion. Hopefully some of the lawyers with patent experience will weigh in for us. We will monitor this thread closely gang, so please try to keep things civil.

    #16 10 years ago

    Is their a patent for putting Mattel toys in a pinball machine?

    #17 10 years ago
    Quoted from alichino:

    It doesn't really matter if their first game already came out or not. If they can prove they were playing around with it before Stern filed the patent, they're fine. If some random guy can prove they were working on it in their garage five years ago with pipe dreams of making a pinball machine, that guy would also be able to use the color changing LEDs in a pinball machine.

    The point is Stern did not do this to stab Jack in the back and there are some who will say that he also has a led pat from 2006 before there was JJP

    #18 10 years ago

    You can't patent something that is already released and out there, even if you created it. This is going nowhere.

    #19 10 years ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    You can't patent something that is already released and out there, even if you created it. This is going nowhere.

    The patent examiner will need prior art that beats the August 2012 filing date. Nobody in the thread has shown that prior art yet, but that does not mean the patent office will not find a reason to reject.

    #20 10 years ago

    The patent is probably not legitimate, but it will cost pinball companies a bunch of money in legal fees to prove it.. money that could be spent on something more fun and beneficial to the community.

    -1
    #21 10 years ago
    Quoted from PinballHelp:

    The patent is probably not legitimate, but it will cost pinball companies a bunch of money in legal fees to prove it.. money that could be spent on something more fun and beneficial to the community.

    It is not a patent, it is an application for a patent. It still must be examined and rejected or allowed.
    The other pinball companies really don't have to do anything unless it becomes a patent. One thing the othe pinball companies can and probably should do is a third party submission of prior art with explanations as to why the claims are not patentable.

    #22 10 years ago

    Just ask Gary, he has decades of experience in breaking patents by other companies, he should know how it applies.

    #23 10 years ago

    I don't think this patent is simply for the use of multicolored LEDs in a game... I think this is about the coordination of the different colors with the gameplay/modes/music.

    I am not sure why DCFAN only pasted in Claim 1 of the patent in the original post. He should have pasted all 6 claims in to better document what this patent is about.

    Please click the patent link in the original post of this thread and read it for yourself.

    #24 10 years ago

    The patent is very specific with rgb LEDs. ACDC is the first machine I know that used them. A color changing led is not an rgb led. We all saw those in machines before ACDC.

    #25 10 years ago
    Quoted from ChadH:

    I don't think this patent is simply for the use of multicolored LEDs in a game... I think this is about the coordination of the different colors with the gameplay/modes/music.
    I am not sure why DCFAN only pasted in Claim 1 of the patent in the original post. He should have pasted all 6 claims in to better document what this patent is about.
    Please click the patent link in the original post of this thread and read it for yourself.

    Here is the full set of claims which I posted in the original thread:

    1. A coin operated amusement game, comprising: a playfield including a plurality of features which are utilized to define play of the coin operated amusement game; and a plurality of tri-colored LEDs positioned in cooperation with the playfield to illuminate a playing surface of the playfield in a one of a plurality of different colors.

    2. The coin operated amusement game of claim 1, wherein the plurality of tri-colored LEDs are positioned below the playing surface of the playfield.

    3. The coin operated amusement game of claim 1, wherein the plurality of tri-colored LEDs are positioned above the playing surface of the playfield.

    4. The coin operated amusement game of claim 1, wherein the one of the plurality of different colors in which the playing surface of the playfield is illuminated corresponds to a one of a plurality of different game play modes of the coin operated amusement game.

    5. The coin operated amusement game of claim 1, wherein the one of the plurality of different colors in which the playing surface of the playfield is illuminated corresponds to a one of a plurality of songs that will be played during game play of the coin operated amusement game.

    6. The coin operated amusement game as recited in claim 1, wherein the playfield comprises an inclined playfield of a pinball machine.

    Read more: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20140035227#ixzz2tjOwUcPm

    The broadest claims are the one's that the patent applicant's covet the most, but what they really should want are truly legitimate allowed patent claims.

    #26 10 years ago

    I'm going to patent raising the price of my pinball on craigslist $300 anytime I LED it out

    #27 10 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    The patent examiner will need prior art that beats the August 2012 filing date. Nobody in the thread has shown that prior art yet, but that does not mean the patent office will not find a reason to reject.

    You guys must not be aware of the new patent reform in the US. Prior art is no longer admissible. The new patent law states that who applies for a patent 1st will get the patent if it is approved.

    #28 10 years ago

    Someone said something funny in the other thread that didn't get much response. Something about patenting unfinished code in a coin operated pinball game, which would force competitors to only release games with finished code

    #29 10 years ago
    Quoted from RacerRik:

    You guys must not be aware of the new patent reform in the US. Prior art is no longer admissible. The new patent law states that who applies for a patent 1st will get the patent if it is approved.

    Now, that's funny! DCFAN, you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

    #30 10 years ago

    Applying for a patent shouldn't be construed as "trying to drop a bombshell" even when excluding five of the six claims of said patent.

    #31 10 years ago

    Who is chessiv ? He attacked(accused of making a number up) me for misreading some BS story and I thought, not a nice guy, but maybe he has an agenda. Now he sounds like the guy rumored to have worked for JJP that then came on here and was posting.

    So who are you and if you can't tell us, could you at least explain why the anonymity is important?

    Patent attorneys NEED you to file for patents. Patent attorneys fighting over patent enforcement, well that is just their paradise dream. It is amazing how often they get it done.

    There is a shakedown scheme being run by guys claiming to be patent attorneys going through the midwest (AR OK TX LA), seems to run in cycles and hit the whole country that way. Sometimes they threaten to sue over your use of various insurance software, sometimes over operating systems. Always a joke, but it must work or they would not still be doing it, right?

    #32 10 years ago
    Quoted from RacerRik:

    You guys must not be aware of the new patent reform in the US. Prior art is no longer admissible. The new patent law states that who applies for a patent 1st will get the patent if it is approved.

    I think it depends on what the "prior art" is. If it is an invention that is already available to the public (for sale, etc.,) publically printed whatever, it is still relevant. Not a lawyer though...

    #33 10 years ago
    Quoted from Atomicboy:

    Just ask Gary, he has decades of experience in breaking patents by other companies, he should know how it applies.

    You made my day!

    #34 10 years ago
    Quoted from RacerRik:

    You guys must not be aware of the new patent reform in the US. Prior art is no longer admissible. The new patent law states that who applies for a patent 1st will get the patent if it is approved.

    What? Prior art is what is used to reject a patent application. If it is prior art it is admissible regardless of whether the application was filed under the new or old rules/laws.

    That "First to file law" is for applications that are filed on or after March 16, 2013. This Stern application falls under the old rules.

    #35 10 years ago

    For the application to be approved, the item or process must be deemed to be novel. If I looked into my cracked crystal ball, I would expect the application to be approved unless someone like JJP submits prior art. Once it's approved, the other players will come out of the woodwork and challenge it.

    It makes total sense for Stern to do this just as it makes total sense for JJP or whomever to challenge it. You can't blame Gary for trying to eat Jack's lunch. There's no down side for Stern no matter how this plays out.

    #36 10 years ago
    Quoted from notaflyingtoy:

    Applying for a patent shouldn't be construed as "trying to drop a bombshell" even when excluding five of the six claims of said patent.

    Just an example and I am not saying it will happen, but it would be a bombshell in effect if controlled RGB LEDs were allowed in a broad sense in the patent. Then JJP could be financially hurt because Stern could ask for huge damages for all the WOZ made.

    #37 10 years ago

    I'm not a patent lawyer (as a software guy I loathe what the patent system has become) but if anyone is looking for prior art to bust this we were certainly discussing using RGB LEDs in the homebrew pinball dev. group in 2010.

    The Wayback Machine confirms this quote from the website for my machine has been up since January 2011: "One feature of the playfield that actually is cutting edge will be the extensive use of color controlled rgb LEDs which will be used to combine shots into custom modes during play."

    #38 10 years ago

    Something along these lines happened in the aquarium hobby. Company a somehow got a blanket patent that covered the use of leds to light a marine aquarium. In the end it went away and peeps can now make leds for tanks ....but for a while .....progress was very limited ...prob cost the industry 3 years of r and d.

    While this next statement doesnt apply to all patent clerks its sure does apply to alot.

    "If you cant engineer go work at the patent office. "

    Just like the other old add-age cant do then teach. These are some of the people reviewing patents and we wonder how in the world they get approved.

    #39 10 years ago
    Quoted from swf127:

    For the application to be approved, the item or process must be deemed to be novel. If I looked into my cracked crystal ball, I would expect the application to be approved unless someone like JJP submits prior art. Once it's approved, the other players will come out of the woodwork and challenge it.
    It makes total sense for Stern to do this just as it makes total sense for JJP or whomever to challenge it. You can't blame Gary for trying to eat Jack's lunch. There's no down side for Stern no matter how this plays out.

    I don't have the numbers, but most applications are rejected on the first action by the examiner. The claims can be amended after that.

    #40 10 years ago

    The original thread was allot jucier!

    #41 10 years ago
    Quoted from rommy:

    Who is chessiv ? He attacked(accused of making a number up) me for misreading some BS story and I thought, not a nice guy, but maybe he has an agenda. Now he sounds like the guy rumored to have worked for JJP that then came on here and was posting.

    So who are you and if you can't tell us, could you at least explain why the anonymity is important?

    Do not bring this back up; this is one of the reasons why the other thread was closed. No debate please.

    #42 10 years ago

    You got that right. The downside would end all on us.

    Post edited by TigerLaw25 : Please be careful to quote the correct person

    #43 10 years ago
    Quoted from jetspeedb:

    You got that right. The downside would end all on us.

    ^You quoted the wrong person.

    #44 10 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    ^You quoted the wrong person. Please correct that as I did not say that(Mods please correct if the poster does not ).

    Edited for you.

    #45 10 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Edited for you.

    Thanks.

    #46 10 years ago
    Quoted from DCFAN:

    Just an example and I am not saying it will happen, but it would be a bombshell in effect if controlled RGB LEDs were allowed in a broad sense in the patent. Then JJP could be financially hurt because Stern could ask for huge damages for all the WOZ made.

    Yes, but there would have to be a lot of "if"s to get to that point. Fortunately, JJP apparently has had/does have "free" legal representation. So no cost to them until after the hypothetical litigation.

    #47 10 years ago

    I believe MarsaPlay's New Canasta game used Colored LEDs across the top arch that could change color. I hate to say "color changing LED" since that often refers to a single package that can change color independently. As you can see in the photos, the LEDs are all synchronized to the same color at any point in time. Not sure if that is done as a Tri-color RBG led or not.

    http://www.pinballnews.com/games/newcanasta/

    And that dates back to April 2010.

    #48 10 years ago

    This certainly has a lot more merit than patenting a rectangular phone or tablet with rounded corners...

    #49 10 years ago

    How is anything here a "bombshell"??

    #50 10 years ago

    what if JJP used color changing leds before ac/dc (2012), before stern and can prove it.
    can JJp ask for a patent and stop stern from adding them to their game? this could turn the other way around, no?

    There are 99 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

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