(Topic ID: 286687)

Stern Trident power/connector issues ?

By Nihonmasa

4 months ago


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#1 4 months ago

Hi All,

I got a Stern trident, not working.
Rectifier board was dead, and wiring was all over the place (see first 2 pics).

Bought a new board, redid the wiring.
Also fitted a new alltek board.

Here is the issue: 5V led is not on on the board, but the over voltage one is.
It only lits up when I plug J4 on the board.

I checked all tensions on the rectifier board: all good
TP1 on the power driver board is at 5V

So I guess there is an issue with my wiring.
I checked the schematics but there are some cables which are absents, and where Ishould have a green one, I have a large gauge Grey...

See pics.

Any help is much appreciated !
20210102_114455 (resized).jpg20210102_114500 (resized).jpg20210127_200606 (resized).jpg20210127_200615 (resized).jpg20210127_200628 (resized).jpg20210127_200636 (resized).jpg

#2 4 months ago

are you able to only supply AC input to pins 6 & 7 on J2 and check volatges?

like remove all plugs except the AC line in?

actually try just J2 plugged onto the header and see what you get?

#3 4 months ago

Hi Rik, thanks for the help!

Not sure what you mean but, with J2 only on the Rectifier board, all voltages are good.
But no 5v on the power driver board.

Actually tried to replug everything and no more 5V on the power driver board, so I am wondering if it did not also fail?

#4 4 months ago

Just guessing here - are you saying that there is 12 volts on the rectifier board, but when you plug in the Solenoid driver board, the 12 volts drops to zero volts? If so, then the problem is the driver board. With power on and connections to the SDB off, verify you have the 12 volts on the pin going to the SDB - J3 pin 12. (The 5 volts comes from the 12 volts fed from the rectifier board.) If you have the 12 volts there, but no 5 volts on the SDB test point, you have a problem in the SDB, most likely a bad regulator.

#5 4 months ago

gotta sat good on ya for taking on such a mess.

what i meant was basically starting from scratch.

mains fed into rec board at J2, pins 6 & 7 and checking the voltages, to ensure the AC from the transformer was soldered correctly to the pads on the rear of the rec board.
i do this with a variac, but not everyone has one available so just plugging in J2 as is will work.
J2 has nothing to do with the solenoid driver board, only AC in and return, GI bus and return, and coin lockout, knocker bus and Ground.

so you should be able to connect J1 and J2 onto the rec board and not have any issues?

all your plugs in the pics appear to be wired correctly, assuming the green (GI return) J3 pin 1 has at some point been changed to grey.
i'd trace that grey wire and see what happens.

sorry but i'm not sure when you say power driver board do you mean rectifier board or solenoid driver board, think you are referring to solenoid driver as you have verified the rec board?

what was the new alltek board, solenoid driver or mpu? i ask this so as to know where to go next.

#6 4 months ago

ok guys, many thanks for your feedbacks.

I've been working a bit on this, I got a Bally Star Trek tested all boards (MPU and Power driver) => they work just fine.

So the issue is 100% in the cabling.

It seems to be located on the Rectifier board, J3 connector.

What seems awkward to me, according to my findings:

J3/8 goes to Power Driver Board J1/12 According to diagram should be reg +5; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is +13.5 unreg => seems wrong

J3/9 => SDB J3/5 According to diagram should be relay; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is Q15 => seems wrong

J3/13 is fully missing; should be Sol Bus. Where should I pull a wire?

J3/15 => SDB J3/21 According to diagram should be reg +5; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is GND => seems wrong

J3/16 => SDB J3/22 According to diagram should be reg 175 filt. ret; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is GND => seems wrong

J3/17 => SDB J3/10 According to diagram should be reg +5 Filt. ret; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is Trnsfrmr GND => seems wrong

J3/18 => SDB J3/3 According to diagram should be reg 175 filt. ret; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is Trnsfrmr GND => seems ok

J3/19 => SDB J3/23 According to diagram should be Sol ret bus; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is SOL GND => seems ok

J3/20 => SDB J3/24 According to diagram should be reg 175 filt. ret; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is SOL GND => seems ok

Would anyone have a wiring map for the PDB J3 connector?
Below is the image of the connector on the new boards with the info written.
20210131_162004 (resized).jpg

#7 4 months ago
Quoted from Nihonmasa:

ok guys, many thanks for your feedbacks.
I've been working a bit on this, I got a Bally Star Trek tested all boards (MPU and Power driver) => they work just fine.
So the issue is 100% in the cabling.
It seems to be located on the Rectifier board, J3 connector.
What seems awkward to me, according to my findings:
J3/8 goes to Power Driver Board J1/12 According to diagram should be reg +5; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is +13.5 unreg => seems wrong
J3/9 => PDB J1/5 According to diagram should be relay; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is Q15 => seems wrong
J3/13 is fully missing; should be Sol Bus. Where should I pull a wire?
J3/15 => PDB J1/21 According to diagram should be reg +5; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is GND => seems wrong
J3/16 => PDB J1/22 According to diagram should be reg 175 filt. ret; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is GND => seems wrong
J3/17 => PDB J1/10 According to diagram should be reg +5 Filt. ret; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is Trnsfrmr GND => seems wrong
J3/18 => PDB J1/3 According to diagram should be reg 175 filt. ret; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is Trnsfrmr GND => seems ok
J3/19 => PDB J1/23 According to diagram should be Sol ret bus; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is SOL GND => seems ok
J3/20 => PDB J1/24 According to diagram should be reg 175 filt. ret; what I see written where it is plugged on the new PD board is SOL GND => seems ok
Would anyone have a wiring map for the PDB J3 connector?
Below is the image of the connector on the new boards with the info written.
[quoted image]

Trident SDB schematic

5CBE71B6-F739-4481-A552-702C9F79CA7B.jpeg
#8 4 months ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Trident SDB schematic [quoted image]

Yep I have those but I don't see the explanation of how it should be on J3 for the SDB

#9 4 months ago

J1 is shown somewhat on there for pins 2,3,5,8,9

Other shots if you need

image.jpgimage.jpg

#10 4 months ago

Oups yeah thx, I edited !

So with the 2nd schematics, what are A1, A2, A3 ?
I guess that A2 is the rectifier board ?

So that seems more or less in line with what I found?
But that does not compute with the board I installed.
Aren't Bally & Stern SDBs compatible?

Then where the f*** is my issue coming from?
All boards are testing ok in another machine, except the rectifier which I did not move... Will check this one again, but all tp were ok.

#11 4 months ago

A1 = Insert (back glass panel)
A2 = Transformer (rectifier board)
A3 = SDB
A4 = MPU
A5 = Lamp driver

Hope that helps figure out what wires go from SDB connector J3. Bally and Stern solenoid driver boards should be interchangeable.

#12 4 months ago

Other wire maps

image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg
#13 4 months ago

turns out i was wrong, you are correct in saying there should be a wire at J3 pin 13, solenoid bus.

yes Bally and Stern solenoid driver boards are compatible.

did you trace that grey wire on J3 pin 1 and see where it goes?
you should have continuity to ground.

#14 4 months ago

yes Bally and Stern solenoid driver boards are compatible.

did you trace that grey wire on J3 pin 1 and see where it goes?
you should have continuity to ground.

J3 pin 8 on rec board goes to SDB pin 12 - orange wire
J3 pin 9 on rec board goes to SDB pin 5 - grey wire
J3 pin 13 on rec board goes to credit knocker (solenoid bus) white with yellow tracer
J3 pin 15 on rec board goes to SDB pin 21 ground - white with blue tracer
J3 pin 16 on rec board goes to SDB pin 22 ground - black with blue tracer
J3 pin 17 on rec board goes to SDB pin 10 11.9VDC from transformer to SDB for input to 5V regulator - white with brown tracer
J3 pin 18 on rec board goes to SDB pin 3 - ground - white wire
J3 pin 19 on rec board goes to SDB pin 23 - ground - red with yellow tracer
J3 pin 20 on rec board goes to SDB pin 24 - ground - white with orange tracer

All your return wires are ground

#15 4 months ago
Quoted from Rikoshay:

turns out i was wrong

Quoted from Rikoshay:

J3 pin 13 on rec board goes to credit knocker (solenoid bus) white with yellow tracer

Actually you were originally correct
The knocker was in the head on previous Stern games hence solenoid power came from J3 pin 13 on the rectifier board. Trident has the knocker in the lower cabinet near the speaker and it gets solenoid power from the rectifier board J2 pin 2. That's the reason A2J3-13 is empty.

#16 4 months ago

Ok, so I checked everything again, and all seem ok.
The only weird stuff I found was that the +12V outputs 16,2V on the Alltek rectifier board, but the Alltek support says it is normal cause unregulated.
Still lost at sea with this one...

The grey wire on J3 pin1 goes to the backbox GI return as it should, so it's only a color variation on production.

I checked the voltage coming in on J4 of the MPU, apart from the 12V explained above, it's all good.
WTF....

#17 4 months ago

if your wiring is correct, have you re-pinned the connectors? That may be the issue.

Or check wire continuity for an internal break.

#18 4 months ago
Quoted from emsrph:

if your wiring is correct, have you re-pinned the connectors? That may be the issue.
Or check wire continuity for an internal break.

Yep connectors are new, internal break is unlikely as I checked on the pin arriving on the boards and cause the Altek MPU is warning of an overvoltage.
I'll have to once again recheck every single connections going to / from the MPU.

Getting tired with this Trident; first time I have so much troubles with an old Stern.

#19 4 months ago
Quoted from Nihonmasa:

Yep connectors are new, internal break is unlikely as I checked on the pin arriving on the boards and cause the Altek MPU is warning of an overvoltage.
I'll have to once again recheck every single connections going to / from the MPU.
Getting tired with this Trident; first time I have so much troubles with an old Stern.

Can you try a different transformer board from another Stern game to rule out the rectifier?

Or a different SDB?

If you’re getting too high a voltage it’s one of those two boards. Unless your transformer is tapped to the wrong voltage.

#20 4 months ago
Quoted from emsrph:

Can you try a different transformer board from another Stern game to rule out the rectifier?
Or a different SDB?
If you’re getting too high a voltage it’s one of those two boards. Unless your transformer is tapped to the wrong voltage.

Yep, that's the plan. Should do it tomorrow if all goes well.

#21 4 months ago

Ok, tried with a different brand rectifier board and a brand new SDB from Alltek => exact same issue.

Will have to spend some time checking all the wiring it seems, wouhou...

On the CPU I have those values: TP1 @ 4,9 V, TP4 @0V, TP6 @ 22V

#22 4 months ago
Quoted from Nihonmasa:

Ok, tried with a different brand rectifier board and a brand new SDB from Alltek => exact same issue.
Will have to spend some time checking all the wiring it seems, wouhou...
On the CPU I have those values: TP1 @ 4,9 V, TP4 @0V, TP6 @ 22V

You'll get there! Don't know about Alltek test points but usual MPU board:
TP1 = +4.9 to 5.2 vdc
TP2 = +12 to 14 vdc
TP3 = +21.5 vdc (comes from +43 vdc solenoid voltage).
TP4 = Ground
TP5 = +4.9 to 5.2 vdc

What voltages do you have on other boards?

Rectifier Power Supply Board:
TP1 = +5.4 vdc (AS2518-18 version), +6.5 vdc (AS2518-49 & -54 versions) feature lamps.
TP2 = +230 vdc (score displays) with connector J3 attached, 150 vdc with J3 disconnected.
TP3 = +13 to 16.5 vdc with connector J3 disconnect, +12 to 14 vdc with J3 connected.
TP4 = 5.7 to 7.3 volts AC (general illumination)
TP5 = +43 vdc (solenoid voltage)
GND = Ground

Solenoid Driver/Voltage Regulator board:
TP1 = +4.9 to 5.2 vdc
TP2 = +190 vdc
TP3 = +4.9 to 5.2 vdc
TP4 = +230 vdc
TP5 = +12 vdc to 16.5 vdc

Lamp Driver board:
TP1 = +4.9 to 5.2 vdc
TP2 = Ground

#23 4 months ago
Quoted from Nihonmasa:

On the CPU I have those values: TP1 @ 4,9 V, TP4 @0V, TP6 @ 22V

If on the Alltek MPU board you have 5 volts on TP1 and 0 volts on TP4, then the 1.1A F1 fuse on the Alltek MPU board is blown.

Alltek_TP.png

#24 4 months ago

According to Alltek, their TP are a bit different and my TP4 is for sure at fault:
TP1: +5v IN
TP2: +43VDC
TP3: GND
TP4:: +5V (I have 0)
TP5: VMA
TP6: Zero crossing

Quench: many thanks for chiming in!
Now you have me puzzled; cause I can't see any fuse on the alltek MPU

#25 4 months ago
Quoted from Nihonmasa:

Now you have me puzzled; cause I can't see any fuse on the alltek MPU

The F1 fuse isn't a normal glass type fuse. See the picture below:
When the Alltek MPU board sees an over voltage on the 5 volt supply, it trips a short circuit protection that purposely blows the fuse to prevent the over voltage from damaging semiconductors on the MPU board.
This now leaves you with a non-standard fuse to source and replace.

Alltek_MPU_FuseF1.jpg

#26 4 months ago

What Alltek did is a good idea and is often used for protection from errant input power. In blowing - it may have saved a lot of valuable IC's.

Based on their online description:
"Our board also has an over-voltage protection circuit. This feature protects your game from voltage spikes that can damage an MPU board. If the Ultimate MPU board sees a voltage spike, it goes into protection mode. When you're ready to reset the circuit, all you have to do is cycle the game off and on."

Cycle power to reset means the board has a solid state fuse, you don't change this fuse.
Regardless - it does look like that one is either open or being retriggered. Since TP1 = 5V, the OVP could be malfunctioning and retriggering each time it is turned back on.

#27 4 months ago

So, I just tested the ALLtek MPU in a Bally Star Trek => works just fine. TP4 is at 4.9V.

So the issue is unfortunately elsewhere.
I'l ltry to recheck all the wiring going to J4.

Getting tired with this trident... XD

#28 4 months ago
Quoted from Nihonmasa:

So, I just tested the ALLtek MPU in a Bally Star Trek => works just fine. TP4 is at 4.9V.
So the issue is unfortunately elsewhere.
I'l ltry to recheck all the wiring going to J4.
Getting tired with this trident... XD

At least the Alltek isn’t pooched.

Tracing each connector wire systematically. Check them off from posts #9 and #12.

Maybe as suggested move the entire transformer and board to another pin. Move the SDB... if those are ok it’s the wiring.

#29 4 months ago
Quoted from G-P-E:

Cycle power to reset means the board has a solid state fuse, you don't change this fuse.

Thanks Ed, below are pictures (front and back) of the fuse taken from an Alltek I have and also the Alltek the crowbar schematic.

Nihonmasa, might be an idea to post all your test point voltages on the rectifier board, solenoid driver board and the MPU board like emsrph did above.
Alltek_MPU_Fuse_a.jpg
Alltek_MPU_Fuse_b.jpg
Alltek_VCC_Protection_a.png

#30 4 months ago

Ok, culprit has been found ! It is the sound board !
When unplugged (the top 2 plugs), the MPU starts and the game works !

Next step: look at the board and probably perform a cap kit

#31 4 months ago

They did this the right way.
MC3423 was a very popular part for over voltage protection. Too bad it's now obsolete. There are alternates out there but not with the same pin out.

Vtrip = 2.6V(1 + 6200/5100) = 5.76V.

But since his board works in a different machine - it seems to be machine dependent, not board dependent. The machine that does not work properly may be experiencing spikes on the +5V inputs that are quick enough to trigger the OVP.

The fuse part in the photo - I don't recognize the part marking. But with the "V" and inverted "V" on the device - it's a polyswitch resettable fuse or "PTC". Probably one of a thousand variations made by Littelfuse, maybe their RUEF series.

One thing I can see is the "090" means it is a 0.9 amp part, not 1.1 amp.

#32 4 months ago
Quoted from Nihonmasa:

Ok, culprit has been found ! It is the sound board !
When unplugged (the top 2 plugs), the MPU starts and the game works !
Next step: look at the board and probably perform a cap kit

So sound board gets its power from the CPU board.
It could be overloading the 0.9 amp fuse. Wouldn't hurt to recap it - stable power always helps.

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