Quoted from Tsskinne:
Someone, please tell me this isn't it? This is just some random homebrew or something right?[quoted image]
There's probably quite a few virtual pins out there with this theme...
What is funny is that is the pic I pretty much expected to be the backglass since the machine has been hinted at.
I predict a seawitch retheme with Bronze, Gold, Diamond, Platinum, Titanium, Unobtanium levels.
oh man..i'm picturing christmas light string strung around the playfield with lettered targets. When you hit them the corresponding xmas light lights up. All sorts of cool things they could do with this....
A demigorgan that comes out of a portal towards the back of the pf, that grabs the ball as a lock (I guess kind of like the Alien mech in idea)..
I do think it would be hard to do the upside down world on the pin w/o a lower pf....maybe something bigger like HH with a reversed flipper set up...
Of course...I am going to guess nothing like any of that will actually happen.
Quoted from jandrea95:
For sure, ive always grown up with video games, and to this play still love them to unwind. My intent was to fill my basement with retro arcade games, old console setups, etc. Then, I played pinball for the first time at age 39. Well, plans change.
Wow, you aren't much younger than me, and you'd never played one until 39?? Welcome to the club!
Quoted from Medisinyl:
Built this one for halloween. My fiancee and I dressed up as Scoops Ahoy Steve and Robin. Also built a large mindflayer, created the upside down, had fog machines with red lasers, Christmas lights/letters wall, etc. (don't have many photos on my phone)
In other words, I'm looking forward to this theme [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
You know what bugs me about that picture. Ain't nowhere in the 80's you could buy a 26 count string of chrismas lights! Or in this case..22 count..
I think the projection stuff sounds pretty cool! I can't wait to see how they pull that off.
Difference is, I've disliked so many Stern pins - even the new ones, that I wouldn't order this until I could play it anyway, so I'm cautiously optimistic.
If you need an idea of what they are attempting, go youtube halloween house projection mapping. I assume it is like this and the interactivity will coincide with this. It's a pretty cool idea actually. They will essentially be able to also create that snow/ash effect in the upside down with it as well.
Quoted from f3honda4me:
Yea but those house projection mappings are no joke, well done/developed, using expensive projector etc. It's not the same thing.
It 'could' be the same thing. Just speculating based off what little has been given so far. The possibilities are pretty cool because it's not a lot of space so you can do quite a bit of projection with not a very big footprint. However, yes, it is Stern, so hard to say what it will actually be like.
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:
I have to wonder how many bought a nib game this month or recently and now will regret it when this pin comes out. That’s if it’s as good as it sounds.
Why would they regret it. There'll be a ton of people who will buy this pin sight unseen who will regret it, just like every new pin.
Yep. I hope they are both awesome. Two themes I'm actually excited about. Honestly, I was excited for JP2, but the art kind of put me off...but with everyone saying how good it is, I can't wait to flip it sometime. But I was also really excited about BK3....and well...
You guys seem out of the loop on how small projectors are these days. We're not talking movie theaters here. We're talking the size of LED bulb, like what they have on watches and tablets. They aren't amazing, but they do the job, and keep in mind they don't have to throw the image all that far.
I anticipate either one on each side of the apron (L/R) or one center..which is more likely.
I can't imagine them NOT doing LED really. It's the cheapest alternative right now. As for life, yes, they will last longer than you'll have the machine in most cases as long as the components aren't bad.
Quoted from Chitownpinball:
I assure you, I am not out of the loop on these little garbage projectors they sell these days. The lumens are abysmal. To compete with the gi, inserts, etc, youre looking at at least 2-3k lumens at least.
Yea I realize that, but I have to imagine they have taken all of that into consideration. It wouldn't even make sense to move forward with the idea if you can't even see it.
I am genuinely interested in how what they plan and how they plan to do it.
I actually think it looks pretty interesting. There's a lot of interesting things you could do with this set up.
Quoted from Who-Dey:
Looks pretty interesting to me. Nothing new or spectacular but it definitely looks fun and all of those inserts makes me curious also as to how they will be used. I would be interested if not for being scared of the playfield quality but it just concerns me too much to spend that kind of money right now. Nice game though for sure.
Think of it this way..the more inserts the less wood to dimple
Is it just me or did it seem like the playfield was smaller than normal? Maybe an optical illusion...
Lots of the old guys aren't going to get this. They complain if their playfield isn't lit up like the sun. They'll need night vision goggles to play this.
Season 1 was great
season 2 was kind of meh even though it had a great iconic monster visually
Season 3 was great again
Stern upping their game is exactly what we all wanted. I think at first glance, they've done that. Let's see how this plays out.
Quoted from delt31:
Kind of scary to think what some people might be spending on new Stern's based on some of these estimates for premiums.
If you mean what I said, I was referring to whatever outrageously high prices Elvira went out. I don't know the breakdown of the 3 versions, and didn't really care, just that someone was trying to say Sterns were cheaper than Spooky for what clearly are not even comparable.
Quoted from bigd1979:
I believe this game has been in development for a while now? I'm sure stern has tested out things including the projector and they must be happy overall how it held up or they wldnt have chosen it ..right? Regardless there are some very well informed people on pinside and I'm sure someone will find a better replacement for cheap or a way to repair or upgrade the stern one cheaply. I believe the lifespan in home use will be fine anyway as most people don't play a whole lot. From my research it looks like 15000-30000 hours for this type of tech. Plus we spend 6-10k on pins if we need to spend 100-200 every few years is it a huge deal?I mean most spend 250-500 before they get their pin on 3d printed mods and lighting lol.
I would say that YES it is a big deal, regardless of up front cost. That being said, I do agree that this would have been tested, granted I doubt they've tested it for life expectancy and relied on manufacturers numbers. However, the bulbs we are talking about here aren't overly expensive and will only go down in cost over time.
The low end was under 7k, and 7k+ included a lot of things that don't come on Stern Pros and is still cheaper than Sterns higher models...people keep saying +tax and shipping as if Stern doesn't have that to also add on top (basically quit saying it because they nullify each other out). Now that being said you also have to consider that Spooky is a smaller company, ordering smaller #'s of parts, etc, which yes, can up their pricing due to sheer lack of numbers. From what we've seen so far BOM on R&M is higher than many Sterns as of late. I'm not one to consider that a selling point however.
I only care about the art when I'm NOT playing. When I'm playing I'm looking at the ball and inserts.
Depends how you are going to use them. If you have more than one game going at a time, it doesn't really matter how you hook it up, it's all going to drown each other out anyway. If you mostly plan to just play 1 game at a time, then you can hook multiple to a single sub and it works fine without any kind of switcher. I think most people keep it to 2 games per sub max.
Quoted from HookedonPinonics:
Not sure why people are scared that Lonnie is doing the code. His last few Sterns all have been fun games. Star Trek, Aerosmith, Guardians of the Galaxy. Yes some were undercooked when released but the final code all has been great in my opinion. Can't wait to see all the pics tomorrow. Looking forward to playing and buying eventually when the premiums come out.
I don't really look at coders/designers typically, but I can say I didn't like those 3 games at all :/
It's not intended AT ALL for children. It's intended to hit nostalgia for those who grew up in the 80's. Saying that doesn't mean children don't watch it. It's no different than everything else that's having a comeback right now, like pinball.
I was having this discussion with some coworkers. At some point one says "how much was it, 3-4k?" I laughed and said, maybe in 2000. When I told them the average price of a pinball today they were in disbelief. The point is, MOST people wouldn't pay that kind of money on these items, doesn't matter how big a fan they are. It doesn't need to be millions though, it only needs to be hundreds/few thousands.
Going to flat out say, I don't care about pro gameplay. The INTERESTING thing everyone wants to see is the projection...It does not appear that gameplay between the two is going to vary much.
Quoted from benheck:
Why don't companies create paid DLC code packs for future seasons when a pin is released before a movie/series is over? Like the last 3 seasons for GoT, seasons 3 and 4 of Stranger Things for this pin...
Like, leave some blank mounting spots on the game with a data header and a small toy is included with the "season pack". This toy attaches to the header and has some DRM to unlock the content which is encrypted in the future game updates. It would be like selling a software dongle to license the additional content.
Now the "I hate EA" YouTube gamers would string me onto a cross for this idea but let's face it - pinball is bizarro world. Companies do this same thing with test equipment that costs less than a damn pin. Why not?
They barely finish the code that is supposed to be released with the game years later, and you want them to have a reason to NOT finish the code and abandon it so they can make more money off it?
Quoted from whitey:
With the projector I would think you can ad images for years as well as code
If I was Stern I'd use it for putting ads up before you can start a game and in game. Lots of ads for bifocals, hearing aids, hemorrhoid cream, and viagra. Why not milk those ad dollars?? Oh and D.A.R.E announcements.
Quoted from Chitownpinball:
Its all the fan layout loving old dudes with disposable income. Who else is buying all these MMR and AFMR? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
People keep eating these shit fan layout games up. Not sure why. Ive played that game before, just with a different theme and rules.
Honestly this game looks like a lot of chipping wood like Avengers with all the same inserts on each shot.
Ill still throw a quarter in this unlike I would ever do with Elvira, yet another fan layout for the masses. Slurp it up dummies.
I know everyone hates on the fan layout, but realistically, that's about the extent of making the most out of a pf. There's only so many angles you can use for flow and you consider how many games have been made throughout history, and then add that they are trying to basically make them as cheap as possible...it doesn't leave much room for anything else. I have some ideas for PF layouts I haven't seen before, but in the end, to get the most shots possible, it STILL works out to being a fan layout..because that's just the geometry of pinball.
Quoted from benheck:
Pinball 2000 the giant head contained the CRT but also acted as a way to block/control light.
I think this might have issues - obviously laser shows work but that's using units far larger than what would fit in an apron and consuming massive amounts of energy.
It's still a very cool idea, not even the screen really but moreso being able to "label" targets.
Waiting to see what high power mod projectors people put in these.
Quoted from snaroff:
Just the geometry of pinball? Ridiculous.
Keith’s JP2 design is a perfect example of interesting shots & flow. Takes creativity...has nothing to do with cost.
Having not played a JP2 yet, I can't speak to it, but uh...that's still a fan layout, even if it is prettied up.
I mean I can draw you a map if you need, but I think you can figure it out. It's plastered all over the internet.
Definitely interested in flipping this, but not sure I'd want to own one. We shall wait and see.
Don't know if it's the players...but that stream makes the game look pretty boring :/
That's what I was thinking too? It didn't even seem like the lighting changed at all?
Quoted from dangerwil:
In on an LE. Game looks like a wood chopping snore fest. No quirky humor, no goals to reach, no narrator to help move game along. No linear mode progression, just modes and random multiballs. Shoot x ramp 15x for extra ball.
Hoping code evolves into something fun. Stern has been making some great games, I hope this becomes one.
and you're in? And people wonder why Stern doesn't feel the need to raise the bar...
I think putting these out now with such primitive code is bad practice. I'm sure in the grand scheme of on location games it probably doesn't matter, but it sure doesn't make me want to buy one. Especially given all the other potential issues Stern is known for.
Quoted from pinballaddicted:
I do not agree and this is definitely not bad practice. I like when the games come out with early code. Watching the game progress is awesome. Lonnie will do a good job on this game.
Yea, not a fan of being a beta tester. Been there done that too many times. Rarely ends well. I just want to play the finished product.
Quoted from kermit24:
After playing the game on location, I enjoyed it a lot. Satisfying shots. I think the stream looks pretty great. I expect the premium to really shine also. Lots of haters but this wouldn’t be a pinside reveal without them.
I don't think there's many haters, just some sitting on the sidelines. It's one I'd have to play before committing to.
Oh don't worry, there'll be that one guy who lives and breaths Stern and pre-orders them all and claims that everyone who doesn't like them is stupid while shitting on every other manufacturers' games. He probably hasn't drank enough yet.
Quoted from Darscot:
I really don’t get the concern over the projector. Didn’t they say it was basically off the shelf. I just bought my daughter a portable projector and it was half the price of pin stadiums and way more than you would need in a pin.
It kind of goes two ways...it's either expensive or cheap. If it's cheap, then what justifies the price jump? If it's expensive, that scares people for how much it will cost to replace. The other is just wondering how much it is actually integrated into the game. It's really the more interesting part of the game in my opinion. I'm still curious to see how that works out. Maybe since the code isn't too terribly far along, they are holding off on showing it off more? Also, I think it will be one of those things you really need to see in person, a video/pics of it won't show nearly as well as people will want it to. It's not a bright clear 4k projector.
Quoted from CyberNinja24:
Nothing surprises me when it comes to pinball and pinside, and clearly everyone has the right to dislike something and change their mind, but it really is interesting to see guys in on an LE change their mind after watching one stream of a pro.
Not at all. You are betting 9k on a stream. If it doesn't capture you, why would you drop 9k? It makes more sense than just buying it anyway. It will be around, buy it later after you've played it.
Quoted from Toppers:
Anyone else get irritated by the sound of the multiball music on last nights stream. It’s the same 8 bars/measures over and over and over. I feel like it’s a 80’s pin on loop... I don’t think the sound on this game is promising. The music also seems very lack luster (besides the main theme song of course) today I was playing some TNA and I could literally just sit there and listen and not even play. Or pirates jjp Mode music. Same thing. Trap up and just listen to the amazing work done. It’s seems like stern took music from an online database and dragged and dropped (example) dead pool pop bumper generic downloaded online sound) I hope this is just because of early code. Side not while I’m ranting, I feel like the jackpot callouts are super lame. Eddy Games are known for some of the best callouts in history. Stranger things missed that boat.
Overall. I like the game, not sure it a NIB purchase for me yet. Premium stream will help determine that I’m sure.
I think due to the very early code most of the sound/music is still very early and placeholders. That can all be fixed eventually. Same with the lighting. One of the things that stood out to many was the lack of any visual indication you were in upside down. We are crossing fingers, this is all just due to code not being ready.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:
It’s Christmas. People been cooped up in their homes with relatives they can’t stand, stressed out about any number of things. Their teenage niece keeps arguing with them about politics. Mother in law on your ass. Grandpa won’t shut the hell up about some Fight he’s having with his neighbor.
And of course the holidays can put people who don’t have any loved ones to commiserate with in a foul mood too. Hey, shitting all over Stranger Things is better than suicide or a mall rampage, for both you and society at large.
Plus - and this is a huge factor - this is the first chance the Rick and Morty cult has had to dump on a new release since they paid $1,500 for a game they won’t see in two years and haven’t seen a stream for yet.
It’s a perfect powder keg for over the top hatred. It doesn’t matter WHICH game was released, these rabid jackals we’re going to tear into it like your alcoholic uncle into the egg nog. There was more pent up energy here than the sexual tension between Diane and Sam at the cheers bar. And it had to be released!!!
As usual it’s representative of nothing. stranger things will sell like gang busters both here (the upside down) and in the real world, which pinside remains completely out of touch with.
You're projecting. There's only been a handful of R&M people even comment. I'm one of them, and I've not bashed the machine, but I won't sit here and pretend I'm blown away by it. I haven't pretended to be blown away by R&M either. It's not even comparable to Ice's idiotic rant a few pages back about it. No, people have been pretty tame about their dislike of the game. If you can't see that, you're the one with the issues.
If anything, I'd say the hype around this game is nowhere near the R&M hype, but that is mostly Stern's fault. It probably shows here more than out in the wild, simply because of all the QA issues people are getting tired of. I agree though, I think this will sell just fine. I don't see it as an either/or, but speaking as a home owner, I do decide what I will and won't put my money down on and when someone says their reasons, it doesn't make them wrong - which seems to trigger everyone who does put their money down.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Yeah just like a rick and morty cultist to bring up the projector. Again. For the 500th time.
The projector will be fine goddammit! It’s not rocket science! It’s gonna be super fucking cool and everybody knows it.
If spooky did the projector it would have brilliant innovation. Kind of like how their space ship on a spring is perfectly cool and when stern does it on a game that costs $2,000 less it’s a war crime!
So what you're saying is you didn't actually read the thread at all and talking out your ass.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:
No what I’m saying is you are owned.
Right..go ahead and quote anything I stated that remotely has anything to do with what you said. Go ahead, we are all waiting. You're acting like a certain person in charge of the country spouting fake news and trying to pass it off as truth.
It's funny watching an adult sling insults and lies on the internet, and expect people to take them seriously. Stand up people I'm sure.
Quoted from jonesjb:
Seems like some selective perception. I'm in on a Rick and Morty and think Stranger Things looks like a lot of fun and the projector looks quite innovative, good on Stern for trying something new.
Is there a term in the pinball glossary for 'White Knighting' in pinball, just wondering? If not, we need one. Not saying it applies here in this case, but some Pinsiders do seem to be vehement defenders of pinball brands.
Same things I said, but some people are too Ford vs. Chevy and can't stand any criticism at all. You're always going to get the oddball who hates on one or the other, but this thread really hasn't been that way...yet. In fact, this thread is dead for a just released pin...but it could be the holidays.
Quoted from f3honda4me:
Everyone is all Rick n Morty vs Stranger Things, and I’m sitting here like “I bought both” cuz why the hell not?
The thing is it isn't like that really. There's people who think both look like crap. There's people who like them both. No one is expected to have the same opinions regarding both of them, but there's a trumped up view from some people who seem to think any negative thoughts towards one means they are pro the other. Those who have issues with Stern in general, have them regardless of R&M.
Everyone keeps saying it has 'deep code'. No. It does NOT have deep code. We've seen it, it is not deep at all. Until the code is much further along, and actually near/finished, it's all fluff. It doesn't matter how many things they SAY they plan to put into it, it isn't there until it's there. Many people are tired of paying those prices based on 'hope' and waiting years for updates if at all. For those who are happy with it, get it, play it, have fun.
Quoted from rai:
I really don't see Stranger Things as a better theme than funny generic Martian pin but that's just me. Stranger Things is serious drama. Not saying it's bad but that sometimes the funny or goofy theme translate better to pinball.
Yea, it makes it more lively usually. That being said, ST lends itself to being a good theme because it has monsters. It also hits on a plethora of nostalgia for most people. Almost anything with monsters can be used in pinball/games. It's all about how you insert said assets. This game should be a home run if done right. There is enough subtle dialog/character humor that can be put in it, and save the drama for the monster battles, etc.
Speaking of which, I have a new idea for a pinball machine.
The game has no playfield glass, and as you play it, you have hurry up modes that you have to hit certain targets within a time limit or the game starts throwing pinballs at your face.
Quoted from T3quila:
I wonder if there should be different scoring systems for tournament play and just overall enjoyment for anybody / casual players here on pinside.
Casual players like often long playing pins with good theme integration and novel toys vs score balancing, strategy and difficulty for tournament players.
Tournament players like to hold the balls indefinitely to set up shots. Games need to integrate point penalties for ball cradling. Easy enough to do. No ball hits + flipper held X over 1 second = start penalties.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Man this is a dumb idea. Like, even for pinside.
Hey you know what? For pro baseball we should make it that the batter isn’t allowed to hold his bat and needs to swing away at everything. It’s cheating otherwise.
Look, I'm not happy about me being right any more than you are.
Apparently you aren't a fan of basketball...or any sport with 'holding up the game' penalties.
Nothing about making it easier or harder or being good or bad at it. Watching tournament play is like watching paint dry. Cradle ball 3-5 seconds, take shot, cradle ball 3-5 seconds, take shot, repeat repeat repeat. Just play the game. You want to see who is good at the game? It's like a constant hurry up mode.
I don't care how you set it up at home. I just want it to be more entertaining to watch the streams!
Quoted from Rarehero:
Most DMD era to modern pins are objective based. Start modes, finish modes, destroy the castle, sink the ship, etc. I could tell you every objective in LOTR and how it relates to advancing to the end...I’ve had the game for over 10 years...I couldn't tell you what scores what...but it doesn’t matter, as objective = score. I know more jackpots =more score. Finishing modes = score + elf gifts which = score. The best games are the ones designed with some obvious things for casuals to do & nuance for the pros who want to dig deeper. No need for two separate rule sets if a designer & programmer knows how to craft a great pinball machine design & ruleset.
That's a game I need to get my hands on some day. I've played it a handful of times over the years and really enjoyed it.
Even those who have played it feelings seems to be mixed around here. There certainly doesn't seem to be as much hype over this as past games.
As for old ideas vs new ideas. Hard for us to compare the innovation of the projector when they've yet to show us much. I certainly can imagine what it SHOULD be, but we don't know yet if it is. What we can do is look at things we are familiar with and think about possible gameplay elements that would have fit well with this theme and are sadly missing and the only reason is cost.
On the plus side we can say they didn't just take a license and slap a coat of paint over a generic playfield because the backbox magnet lock at least shows some intuition of the show content. I too feel they could have done more with the demigorgan mouth rather than just a static gaping hole. The projector really has nothing to do with the license and most likely between this and the license costs ate up much of the budget. In the end, code is going to make this a great game or a mediocre game (but then...isn't that true with all modern games?)
Quoted from kpg:
Yeah but you remember how bad the playfields on Shadows became in that Sanctum area. Then you'd have Pinside going crazy about how they shouldn't have had that feature because of playfield issues. Can't ever make anyone happy lol
People are much more familiar with mylar and cling plastic these days...oh...and not routed...
Well...that means it comes up too often. That is basically the end game shot. It shouldn't be coming up that often, and shouldn't be possible every time you play the game. To me that screams how shallow this game really is... I do agree that if it is using 'hit points' then just hitting it should register as damage and score, maybe with a diminishing timer score to get it in the mouth.
Quoted from kpg:
From the stream the shot looked easy and they made it a lot. Strange, maybe a setup issue?
Its too bad they just didn't make the Demegorgan head pop out of a wall, then you have to hit it X amount of times to spell something to start multiball... A'la TWD. That to me is a super satisfying way to start a multiball - feels good everytime you get Prison MB going and it never seemed to be too easy to too hard to get it going, but just right.
If they could have a mode where the ramp comes down and you have to hit it X amount of times to start a MB, or even lock a ball in its mouth during MB to save one/kick another out like Metallica, that would be a good use for the toy.
Imo, so much can be improved on with code.. lots of potential
Yea I like this - I assume this isn't already coded then? Using it as a lock for MB would be a good implementation.
Licensed themes are also why prices continue to go up and less is going into the games. Pretty soon all of them are going to look like supreme but not be worth nearly as much.
It's easy to hate on the old games and play it off as nostalgia, but the reality is those games hold up well for a reason, and it goes beyond nostalgia.
^^. Same reason I own a MBr, and not a MMr or AFMr. I never played MB over the years, but I played MM and AFM to death. As much as I love them, I figure my money is better spent on something I hadn't played a ton of. Regardless though, to drop 6-9k on something has to mark a bunch of boxes. Not all of us are millionaires. Any objections to any pinball machine are perfectly acceptable, because entertainment is always about personal preference, not what the masses think. Some people need to be more objective and quit taking any negative criticism about a game personally. You don't need to justify why you bought one...unless you had nothing but negative things to say about it, and still pre-ordered an LE anyway.. :p
Quoted from jimwe5t:
Wrong why? Because your beloved old timer games say so? No one says they are not good designs, cause they are. It is only being very shallow and original themes that would not cut it into today’s market, that is why your continued assertions are plain silly and wrong. No manufacturers are going to take a chance on these type of titles today, because pure business acumen and sales logic wouldn’t allow them to do so. Just look at the poor sales of a well playing game like Oktoberfest if you have a difficult time understanding this point. Sales have been very poor to say the least and it is also an excellent game to play.
Except..you keep saying no one wants them. People DO want them, and they do just fine on routes as well. You are not wrong about original themes not really doing well these days, but that's really not the point. Most original pinball themes are based off of a license anyway...
Quoted from Rarehero:
Dialed In: It’s about...a basic 90’s guy in mom jeans with a magic cell phone? And drones? And a hologram theater? And disasters?
It’s an instant WTF...it doesn’t draw over potential players with the promise of an exciting and understandable premise. It’s a fine & fun game...but it’s failure to catch on is 100% its theme.
Quoted from chuckwurt:
No. If someone goes ape on a game they’ve never played and goes on and on about it, that’s dumb. If you don’t like it, fine. Make you take, then cya later. Why stick around to beat the drum for days on end?
It’s much more fun to be in a thread about a game talking with people that like the game.
However, LOTS of people who HAVE played it have said it isn't that great...are we going to sit here and pretend everyone who doesn't like it hasn't played it?
Quoted from f3honda4me:
I went back over the posts of people who actually played it and most were positive not negative. *shrug*
You may be right, but it looked more around 50/50 to me, but not that important. The question is do those people like it enough to drop the money on one? Because ultimately that is what this discussion is about. There's lots of pins I don't hate that I have no interest in owning.
EDIT: Let me expand a bit. I'm more of a buy and hold person, not a buy and see if I like it and turn around and sell it in a few months person. That is probably the distinction here. In 99% of the cases, I won't buy something until I've played it a bit, but the online gameplay videos that are available these days are usually a pretty good indicator if you'll like something or not. In this particular case, it's hard to say because the code is so early and we've only seen the very much cut down pro.
I swear some of you must go to every movie ever made, since apparently trailers are pointless.
No point arguing about it, the dude is insane. If it did come to that, plain and simple wouldn't purchase it to begin with, and it would come out pretty fast if it was held back. They can barely make working code now, I don't even want to think about them having an incentive to put out crap code.
Quoted from Darscot:
Just to be completely open I work for EA and was the lead software engineer on the most successful DLC in history. I know the amount of internet hate we get. I also know how popular and loved the feature is. Clearly I’m just insane and have nothing to offer on the topic.
To be completely open, I stopped buying EA games long ago. It's predatory marketing feeding on peoples pokemon syndromes. I'm not disagreeing it works, but I also won't pretend it's not been used to screw over the consumer as well.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:
paid DLC is one of those “works in video games, doesn’t work in pinball” things people love talking about, like online competitive play.
As long as the pinball home buyer base is what it is - old and stubborn - this will never be a thing.
The natives are restless about a $700 toppers and their place in line on a spooky game. They’d riot at the mention of paid code.
I doubt it would be worth manufacturers’ trouble either. Add two seasons worth of code to stranger things so some home buyers bite with a few hundred bucks? Why waste time and effort on that. Better to just invest the time on a NEW game that the same home owners will buy anyway, along with ops as well.
So, intent is really what it comes down to. I get it, Stranger Things was started before season 3....so...sure...additional content down the road, paid to get? Probably wouldn't have an issue with it. However, we all know how the software paid content has went over the years. When it becomes about planned milking rather than delivering a quality product first and foremost, the curmudgeons such as myself, walk the other way. I mean, the whole price difference between what he's talking about and pinball are astronomical.
At least it's supposed to be that color..otherwise people would be throwing it in the puke thread. People around here hate purple
In most cases it should be different - even from what little the video showed.
It will be projecting the building most of the time I think - the LCD screen will be projecting clips. Obviously the ramps and targets will have their own images based on the mode as well. For some reason, I think the rotating arcade image will pretty much be static.
Quoted from vireland:
True, but you're not figuring in the HUGE savings on the manufacturer side when media cost for games went from $18 roms to $1 CDs to $0 downloads. The media costs, which were a huge part of SNES/Genesis fell precipitously. Of course, the console manufacturers sucked up some of that savings in more in royalties, but the overall costs to the publishers went down, and the order requirements fell, too, reducing upfront costs and risk.
Not to mention that distribution went to nothing, and they sell more games than ever, even in the face of blatant piracy. No, they are not hurting by any stretch of the imagination. The ones getting screwed are the developers, but that is between them and the corporations they work for. It's no different than hollywood saying 'we didn't make any money' to avoid having to pay royalties to screenwriters etc. No, we as the consumer have every right to be against anything that can be manipulated, because it happens all the time. It isn't some tin foil hat conspiracy theory. It's the natural progression that happens when you allow things that are anti-consumer to begin with. If they want to cut costs, maybe not spend hundreds of millions on advertising.
No one complained about expansion packs back in the day, there's reasons for that. People started complaining when it was obvious games were being planned around making people pay for more content from the very beginning.
Today their main problem is the huge birth of options (and # of games in general) that people have to choose to spend their money on, and free content as well.
Quoted from Aurium:
Nothing like filtering though BS posts about whiny giberish and DLC content... This thread is crap, start a new one that is actually about the game in the title....
In case you haven't been keeping up with current events, there's diddly to talk about. Go over to the owners thread and listen to the crickets.
Quoted from John1210:
In case you haven't noticed check the title of the thread... Nothing to do with all this DLC garbage that's filling the thread.
Actually, the whole reason that topic got brought up is because of the lack of season 3 assets on the pin. So yes, it has everything to do with it.
Never fails to amaze me how 'me me me' people are on the internet. "Don't talk about things I don't want to talk about or disagree with me, or I'll throw a fit - or be passive aggressive and downvote you even though I didn't read the whole conversation". SMH.
Quoted from Rarehero:
Speaking of pricks...
No, narcissists like you who think YOUR way to “hobby” is the only way are what ruins pinball. Have some fucking respect for the people who buy machines. They’re part of what keeps these companies alive so you can run around putting quarters in games. Pinball doesn’t exist on route alone. Everyone here plays a part in making pinball still exist. So - if someone is spending money on a machine, whether it’s an operator or homeowner, quality is expected. Stop insulting and gaslighting people for having expectations and principals.
If he never buys games (and I wouldn't know one way or the other), that would definitely explain why he has no issues with any Stern games. Completely different mindset. I'm way less picky when games don't cost 6 grand+ ...the bulk of my collection was had for under 1k. No expectation for them to be flawless.
Quoted from kcZ:
oh god, another thread about dimpling. I skipped to the last page to hopefully read about people's opinion on the game and I got a bunch of dimpling talk.
There's plenty of opinions on the game. You aren't going to find those on the last page in most threads.
These hype threads need poll 1. Love it 2. It's okay 3. Not interested 4. Dimples
To be fair, my MBr with 500 or so plays has dimpling. It is definitely visible during normal play (although it doesn't look as bad as some of the things posted). My 2012 AC/DC with around 4000 plays also has dimpling but not nearly as bad as any of the things people are talking about.
Quoted from pinmister:
I am generally curious how many layers your playfield is? Same with your STTNG Greg? As long as we are having this discussion again, let's try and figure out the discrepancies. Is it a 5-7 layer with a dark dense wood on the top, or is it a 9-11 with a lighter colored layer in the plywood? Just curious
If you're going to get down to that level of detail (which I think is an interesting idea), probably should start a dedicated thread to it, lest the Stranger Things people off themselves out of frustration.
Quoted from Trindawg:
So I just ordered a Pro model. Will be getting it in about a week and a half. I didn’t order the model with the shaker motor in it. But as an after thought, now I want it. So I see we can buy shaker motors to install in our machines, but I’m not sure wether this machine is SAM or SPIKE. does anyone know which setup this machine is using so I can order the right shaker motor ??
New games are SPIKE.
Give it time, give it time. About the time you question the status quo, it comes swiftly.
It looked to show up pretty well in that video. I don't think it's going to be an issue.
You'd think all these pinheads who demand pics without the glass on market ads would understand that... and also know how projectors and cameras work by now.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:
Whenever I think I'll never see anything dumber than what I've seen posted here before, some dark horse always comes from the back of the pack to destroy the field.
I'd venture to say no pinball flyer or promo in 50 years has featured a game with the playfield glass installed. That may be the slightest hyperbole, but it would certainly be a statistically irrelevant anomaly. In 15 years selling games semi-professionally, I've taken pictures of hundreds of games, and maybe twice featured playfield shots with the glass installed due to extreme laziness, a temporarily broken lockdown bar lever, or just an old-fashioned hangover. When you are trying to sell a pinball machine, it looks better with the glass off, simple as that.
You'd think with the waves of brilliant and wealthy doctors, lawyers, scientists, and internationally recognized intellectual geniuses who have been signing up for Pinside daily this place would be getting smarter, but it just seems to be the opposite. And it makes baby Jesus cry.
So what you are trying to say is you agree with me, pictures without the glass are better.
Quick someone with a big collection through history go take the glass off all of them and drop a pinball from the ceiling onto the playfields and measure the dimples so we can put this to rest once and for all. For science!
Quoted from pinballOsp:
Agreed, but that means it's an automatic NO on location where it's pretty much always bright. That means only the pro is going to get public exposure which seem like a bummer (esp with this pro).
I'm not sure about the locations you go to, but nearly every location I've been to is dim at the most. None of them are 'bright'. The short video that was shown in the bright lights it was clearly visible. I do not think it's going to be an issue.
For their next pin stern should just sell a whitewood in a cabinet for 10k. Then you guys can discuss upgrading it into what it should be for that price.
that's what is indeed interesting...all those people that have seen it in person..and not a single comment for or against...
I expect it might be just fine in a dim room, but what did they expect? It's 2020. Everyone has a cell phone and wants to be a 'somebody' on the internet. If by 'professionally done' he means in a pitch black room, it's too late, they did that already and it won't impress anyone to do it again.
I think the part he doesn't quite understand is that if we wanted them, we'd have them. If we don't want them, well..not sure why he thinks his opinion trumps everyone elses. If you enjoy them, have at them, quit telling everyone else how to spend their money. If you want an echo chamber go sing in the shower. Always amazes me people who get so worked up over people being critical of a product (that has NOTHING to do with them). It's almost like they are trying to convince themselves.
Quoted from dnapac:
The projection mapping could be a great addition to pinball! I expect to see it more and more implemented, from all manufacturers. This is Sterns stamp. They will either set the bar, or just add the idea...and be left behind. Will Stern go all in, or want a cost grab? This could be revolutionary, but they have to go all in and not try to milk the money yet. Remember. The first generation of anything is the bar...it is the beginning, unless it is done with no holds barred.
Rather than projection mapping I think the better alternative would be the new advances in screens. Not cheap enough at the moment, but imagine everything having translucent programmable lcd screens on them (of course with some sort of protection).
Quoted from kpg:
Oh yeah man, I have been using one for a few years now. I currently have a RecTec smoker that has an app and I can monitor internal temps with 2x probes and it will send me an alert anywhere I am when the temp is getting close to done. Then I turn the temp down or shut it off wherever I am at.. or in some cases, noticed the cook is taking longer than anticipated, I just turn the temp up right from my phone.
Technology is awesome. Then again, I am a career tech geek which is why I borderline obsess over geeky tech shit like pinball machines and projectors
My toilet is wifi enabled. Sends alerts to my phone everytime someone drops a deuce. Weight, bouyancy, makeup, consistancy. Best app ever!
Pinball was created by the devil, so I'm surprised any true religious people would even touch it.
Quoted from phil-lee:
Using obscene euphemisms that include references to Jesus and God in an attempt to sound cutting-edge and forceful is not a good look for your tribe.
I mean..I get it, I think the guy needs to come down a few pegs in his dramatic rhetoric, but this was hardly the breaking point.
I think many of us are truly interested to see where this goes and if it gets better...there just isn't enough information to really talk about it. Throw Sterns history into the mix and the outlook is dim.
Quoted from Shapiru:
Back to the topic at hand.
I consider myself a newbie even though I have lucked into collecting a few of my favorite themes over the past couple of years.
Trying to talk the wife into getting a Stern Stranger Things as we love the show!
I am hesitant though because of what I've read about the excessive dimpling and pooling (whatever that is).
Ultimately you have to ask yourself if you like Stranger Things enough to have a 6k paperweight. That is worst case scenario. For most people, the dimpling and pooling isn't really a 'play' issue. It's a cosmetic/resale issue. The same people who say it isn't an issue, are the same ones who will try to drive the price down if they were to buy one with these 'non issues'.
You cannot expect Stern (or apparently even the devs) to be honest about it now as they've clearly stated it's normal. It may be less of an issue for operators, but it is a completely different story for the home use market. A market where people spend thousands to bring old games into like new pristine condition...and stay that way.
Quoted from Whysnow:
I thought religious talk was immediate reason for post deletion/moderation?
If not, please make it so. It is a sure fire way to ruin/ further ruin any thread.
According to the 'we ordered it so we have to talk good about it' thread, the thread was ruined long before that. It's pretty much all they talk about over there.
Quoted from Shapiru:
Exactly why I'm leaning toward not buying any new Stern at this point even though again, I love this theme.
The Stern playfield talk that I've heard is that they "don't make them like they used to".
And until they get their act together, I'll be looking at older titles (2012 and older?) that didn't have nearly the playfield defects these new ones seem to exhibit.
You can get 2012 AC/DC Luci it doesn't have any of the newer issues. You'll get mild dimples, but not craters.
Quoted from littlecammi:
When playing premium or LE Stern requires using a Bell + Howell Tac Visor for projected images to be legible on the screen.
Tac Visors will be available in the Stern accessories store. Not sure if they will have limited edition number stickers on them.
??? So they are recommending headgear to enhance the image?