Stranger Things is one of my favorite movie/tv shows of all time.
Brian Eddy has only hit home runs, going 3/3 with some of the best games of all time.
I just hope Stern didn't kill, due to budget, a lot of his ideas.
Stranger Things is one of my favorite movie/tv shows of all time.
Brian Eddy has only hit home runs, going 3/3 with some of the best games of all time.
I just hope Stern didn't kill, due to budget, a lot of his ideas.
A section of the playfield rotating to reveal the "upside down" would be cool. It won't happen, but it would be cool.
I loved season 3. I thought it was pretty much perfect and the most enjoyable of the 3 seasons. Season one was creepier and more intense, season 2 was still great...just not as good as 1 and 3.
I thought the 3rd season captured the magic/nostalgia of the first season, took what worked from season 2, while jettisoning what didn't, and put it all together for season 3. It felt like to me like they really hit their stride in 3rd season.
I'm guessing we see something tomorrow.
Next Tuesday would be really close to Christmas, so I bet tomorrow is the day.
Quoted from Tsskinne:
So now I've heard reports of games sitting at locations waiting to be unveiled from 3 different cities across the US... maybe there is something to these rumors, regardless, we know it is coming Stern, just show us what you have!
That's weird, but Stranger Things have happened
Love Eddy...I have all three of his games, but not Lonnie. I’m not a fan of his work. Hopefully like Elwin, Eddy is heavily involved in the rules as well.
Am I the only own waiting on a spicy chicken sandwich because Stern's stopped making them to focus on buying all the pizza in Benton?
I like what I'm hearing so far.
The projector stuff sounds really cool. Might need to play this game in low lighting.
I hope the Demogorgan toy is cool and does more than shake on a spring.
With what we know so far, it seems like the game will rise or fall on those two features.
The telekinesis thing could be cool as well. The feature in kiss didn't do a lot for me, but of course I love the lock in the Shadow, so I trust Eddy on this part.
Agreed. I don't mind a fan layout.
Fan layout is a pretty generic term...kind of like saying a movie is an action movie. There is a lot of details/variables/nuances/code involved in a game.
I think in 2019, if you're going to have a basic fan layout, then the execution of the games features/toys/code/lighting/callouts/artwork, etc...needs to be on point to be a great game.
It's going to come down to execution.
Quoted from drfrightner:
I'm not hating anything and could care less about pushback. I stand by my opinion I don't' like the show. I gave the 2nd season a try and couldn't follow it anymore. Almost everyone I've ever talked to about this show admitted to me season 2 sucks, but then say season 3 was better. I'm just not digging the show so why should you get downvoted for not like a TV show... give me a break. Is everyone going to honestly tell me a TV show that has been around for a couple years is your ULTIMATE dream theme... c'mon.
You're honestly going to tell me you wouldn't prefer Harry Potter, Matrix, Led Zeppelin, Nirvana, Jaws and the list goes on. Please.
This isn't a dream theme. I use to watch American Horror Story, season 1 was awesome, and it went down the tubes from there. Walking Dead is totally unwatchable now. I'm not saying Stranger Things doesn't have fans, every show has fans from Leave it to Beaver to Thundercats. I really loved Westworld I rated that show a 10 then the second season hit now I doubt I'd ever watch it again. Its just my opinion.
KUDOS to Spooky their TV show based game is currently ranked 12th highest rated TV show (IMDB) while Stranger Things is ranked #53. However you to take that with a grain of salt... Rick and Morty has 300k votes, while a show like Game of Thrones has 1.6 million. Either way the people who like the show will like the pinball good for you.
You talk about the 80's yeah love the 80's... give me Caddyshack, Vacation, Blues Brothers and even though Animal House was 78 I think of it from the 80's. However Fast Times at Ridgemont High, Pee Wee Big Adventure, Beetlejuice, Stranger Things is from 2016 not the 80's. Give me a real 80's theme I'd love that. How about ET, Ferris Bueller Day Off, Prince Bride, Die Hard, Goonies, Airplane, I mean the list is very long. Give me some 80's themes I'm way behind that concept. Stranger Things again is from 2016.
It's a dream theme to me. I rather have a Stranger Things pin than most themes I can think of. This is my top 5 list.
Quoted from drfrightner:
I agree that every pinball made will be a dream theme to someone. Hot Wheels got bashed but that will be a dream theme to a lot of people maybe just not you. Stranger Things to me isn't a dream theme I don't' like the show. Everyone is going to have a different opinion on what a dream theme is but if we take a pinside wide poll we might all be shocked at what people vote for.
I'd like to see a Star Wars done by JJP. As for a Music pin would love to see Queen, Michael Jackson, Beastie Boys, love to see Nirvana. I would love to see a good comedy pinball. Hey I'm glad you love Stranger Things good for you. I'm not hating on the show, I just don't like the show so won't be interested in the pinball. I'll wait until a theme I like comes along there is nothing wrong with that.
Agreed. Everyone likes different things. Nothing wrong with that.
It sounds awesome to me. The main toy in middle sounds complex and multi staged and interactive...which is perfect.
The projection stuff sounds amazing. The ball lock should be cool as well.
40 to 50 modes is nuts. Maybe they are at random so you only have the potential to play x amount in any particular game. I can't imagine having to play through that many modes to reach a wizard mode.
I just hope the bulb will be easy to replace.
Lasers theoretically last a long time though if they go that route.
I've been curious if anyone is making LED projector bulbs...seems obvious. Very bright, ling lasting, and runs cool.
Really like what I'm seeing so far.
If coded well, they are really going to be able to give a lot of cool/meaningful info to the player with the projection and make things like the drop targets in front much more interactive and fun to shoot.
I think it could be a really immersive experience.
I bet there is a ramp/lock like on AFM behind one of the drops....making the jump ramp that drops down the 4th ramp.
I'm sure there is more going on behind the other drops too.
It looks like 7 ball paths, counting the jump ramp that comes down, but not counting whatever happens behind the drops, so that number will go up for sure.
Looking forward to seeing the full reveal.
Honestly, the only way I see this game not being a home run is if the code falls flat and the projection doesn't have enough variety. I like playing games in the dark and this seems like it will be needed and perfect for the theme/mood of this game.
Quoted from wolfemaaan:
Love Stranger things and this will definitely bring a younger audience to pinball, but looks like a typical Kinkos printed wide open playfield aka Stern Star Wars that is going upside down and DOA.
Guess we’ll find out if 15 year olds can get us pinball farts to buy them an $8k machine. Might work or die in a swimming pool like Barb
If you don't like the show or this pin, that's cool, but I don't think most will agree with you.
It is a fan layout, but I wouldn't call it typical. I believe this is Netflix's most popular show of all time, which makes it one of the most watched shows period. Netlfix has 150 million plus subscribers, and I imagine a high percentage of them (from all ages) have seen Stranger Things.
Projector mapping that will allow Stern to actively paint targets, it's likely to end up having 4 ramps, 3 different ball locks, 4 drops in the center with hopefully some cool stuff behind them, a complex demogorgan toy.
It's obviously way to early to tell a whole lot. Only time will tell how this pin shapes up, but to me it looks like it shows a ton of potential.
If the code falls flat it could suck...hopefully that doesn't happen.
Netflix doesn't release any real data, so everything is going to be speculative.
They did tweet out 4 days after season 3 launched that over 40 million people had already watched some or all of the season. My guess would be tens of millions of people of all ages are watching it.
The show is insanely popular, and I think targeted at people with nostalgia for the 80's...which of course is older people.
Quoted from frankmac:
Over 40+ million people watching Stranger Things. Who cares what age the viewers are.
Pinball has no age requirements so whoever buys or plays it good for them.
Have some fun Pinside!
It's definitely way over 40 million...that was just the number of households Netflix said watched season 3 in the first 4 days of it's release.
Netflix has over 150 million subscribing households worldwide...I bet close to half or more at least, have watched some of the series.
No one outside Netflix is going to have real data. One of my best friends has multiple specials on Netflix and he, his agency/management try to get info from Netflix with no real luck. They'll get general statements like, it's doing really well.
It seems like it's based on season 1 and 2 based on ruleset and references to the Demogoran, Demidogs and closing the portal.
They could program some of the chapters for season 3 maybe.
It's really cool that the Durfur brothers seem like real pinball fans. They said they's been dreaming about a Stranger Things pin since they created the show. Could be a reason Stern got full rights to assets like they did. Certainly bodes well for the game I think.
It look like the left orbit is a ramp shot that feeds into the right return with a diverter.
Quoted from PinKopf:
I've been looking at that trying to figure out where it returns. You sure it merges with the right ramp return? I don't immediately see how it meets up the the return, I was thinking maybe it drops back into the right orbit... Could use some more close up images for details.
I'm not 100% percent sure...but the feature set seems to allude to the orbit back ramp feeding the right flipper...looking at the pics, that makes the most sense to me.
Quoted from gdonovan:
My wife and I think season one was clearly the best and downhill from there. To us it isn't a surprise they are focusing on Season 1 and 2, from our point of view anyways. Season 3 was.. eh. The timeshift to the 80's was interesting but the story didn't do anything for us.
I loved season 3, but everybody likes different things.
It's hard to beat season 1 for sure. It was dark, moody, intense, suspenseful...etc.. Season 2 experimented with different character pairings and some things worked and some things didn't. I still liked it, but it wasn't as good as season 1. It lost the nostalgia and magic of season 1 and I missed the kids being together in scenes.
I thought season 3 jettisoned what didn't work for season 2 and built upon what did work from seasons 1 and 2. I thought season 3 was the most enjoyable of all 3 (maybe not better than season 1, but more fun) It captured the nostalgia/magic again.
My only disappointment with the game is no season 3 assets...probably has more to do with timing and when they started working on the game than anything else. I would have loved some Starcourt Mall in the game.
Quoted from iceman44:
Zach says MIKE VINIKOUR collaborated with Lonnie Ropp to create the Rules and the balance.
That should be a great thing. Watching the JD stream reveals from the past he is an excellent player and has the passion to make rules and gameplay great i think.
Really excited for this "different" game from Eddy.
Artwork looks great to me and fits Stranger Things theme perfectly.
Agreed...I'm really glad Lonnie didn't develop this in a vacuum. Sounds like Eddy had a big hand in the rules too.
It seems like the Demogorgan area is similar in some respects to AFM and the ship in the layout.
You have drops instead of the target bank, and angled standups behind them leading to a scoop under the demogorgan. It looks to be in a smilier location on the playfiled as the ship as well, with an orbit behind it. I really like this...I like everything about design/layout the ship in AFM, and if this feels similar, I'll be a happy camper.
haha,...I guess we'll find out soon enough...I couldn't make out one in the video, so I bet you're right.
I guess we'll find out tonight how it all comes together, but it seems a little strange if you knock down the drops, then just shoot it up in there to a saucer...that seems really easy. If you have to do that multiple times to qualify the battle then it just seems slow or clunky to have it go in there to dribble back out again and again.
Maybe the shot under demogorgan passes through to the inner orbit and is stopped with a post or diverter when the battle happens...that would work.
This is a premium/LE game in my opinion.
If you listened to the podcast it's clear he started with a vision/desire to be able to "change" the playfield and immerse the player in the different settings of the ST things world...Hawkins lab, the school, the quarry, Will's house, the basement, etc...
He's also proud of the magnetic ball lock that can hold balls indefinitely. The demogorgan also shakes in the premium/LE.
Eddy is obviously known for mechs/toys. I don't think he's a pro designer kind of guy.
I also agree with CrazyLevi. He's returning to roots for his first game...that was intentional. I bet his next game is different.
I'm getting an LE. I look for 3 to 4 cool things in a pin.
- This has the demogorgan toy, which is a way above average overall feature in my opinion, with the drops, saucer, ramp coming down, shooting it in his mouth, and movement.
- Projector. Will likely make or break this pin.
- Magnetic ball lock.
Other than those main features, the game has 4 ramps, 9 ball paths counting the demogorgan shot, custom callouts, assets from the show, main music theme from the show, And a nice art package.
I like fan layouts. I like non fan layouts. I like fun and variety. Every game shoots and feels different. MM feels different from AFM when I shoot it, and I love both and both are keepers for me. If you don't like fan layouts that's cool...we all don't have to like the same things.
To me, the game has 3 cool things. The projector, demogorgan toy, and ball lock. Looking at pics, obviously, one 1 of those things shows up...so at first blush it looks empty. We'll have to play the game to see the projector and the magnet ball lock in action.
I don't have an issue with the overall design...the game is going to sink or swim based on the code/projector.
Without altering the design too much, here are some tweaks that might have been cool.
1. Target bank instead of drops
I am curious why Eddy went with drop targets over a target bank. Was it a design choice or budget? Personally, I like a target bank. I think it provides more code options and feels like more of a moment when it lowers.
2. One more element to the Demogorgan toy.
It's cool as is with drops, saucer to hold ball, ramp coming down, shooting it in his mouth etc..but a kickback like the ST ship has or War Machine on IM that could lower out of the way, once it has been hit enough times, would have given the feeling of the Demogorgan fighting back. I don't think that has ever been done before and not sure it's possible to lower a mech like that though.
3. One more mech/cool thing in the game.
The far right lane just feeds the pops. Maybe 3 inline "Demidog" drops along the way.
With the playfield open, pop ups seem a natural choice. Maybe demidog pop ups with magnets that sling the ball back at you?
I do hope they have a lot of variety of coding the demogorgan.
For example, the two angled targets behind the drops. I hope their are times or modes or a progression where you have to hit those a certain amount of times to qualify the battle and for the ramp to come down.
Little things like that in the code would add depth and challenge. I always like it when standups are an important part of the code (like the trap targets in JP2) and not just throwaway things that add random point when hit.
Quoted from bigd1979:
Yep that's my only problem with the current layout. Wish a ramp lifted to reveal a full orbit.
One good thing about the design is that it will be a good place to park a ball in multiball. I hope they code a certain number of pop bumber hits to qualify a super jackpot or something like that (like CFTBL) that will make the pops more relevant.
Quoted from pinmister:
Just got some good time on the game and I hit the Demogorgon mouth on the first shot nearly every time. I actually learned the exact position from cradle and hit it with no issues multiple times.
Hitting the Demogorgon in one shot was not entertaining and was quite underwhelming.
I think with proper lights, sound, shaker motor, projector, and movement, they can make this more of an event when you hit it in it's mouth on the prem/le
Quoted from PinballTilt:
I had a chance to put many games on stranger things last night. Alot of people have made good points already that I agree with. I think stern has a killer license on their hands, it should do really well on location. Although not many callouts or video clips were in there, I know that will get better (eventually).
But...I want to give my feedback on the game I played because that's what stern is putting up for sale. I did not like it and would not spend my $5800 on this. Why? Because the demogorgan shot is impossible with no obvious way to adjust, the way they implemented the theme is just very poor, at least in the pro. This game requires more mechs/toys for the amount of money they are charging. The modes felt uninspired, no charm to the game. The layout isn't as good as you would expect from a fan layout, I'm not a fan of the left inner orbit or the right outer.
Just wanted to give my feedback, both positive and negative. You may love the game and that's fine. Stern games do interest me alot more when the codes better and you can pick one up second hand
I haven't played it, but I do think the right outer orbit and left inner shot are strange design choices.
In general, I'm not a fan of dead end shots. With proper code, shaker, lights, and sounds they can be made fun I guess.
I prefer when they end in something mechanical. Like the jukebox on ACDC, the tower in LOTR, the control room on JP2 has then up post, so it feels like a more substantial shot, the scoop/subway of CFTBL, etc...
Metallica's fuel shot is just a standup target and doesn't feel as satisfying to me, but it does have a nice sounds effect when you hit it.
It's too bad the left inner shot couldn't loop around to the right outer orbit and vice versa...there may not have been rook for that. It seems like they could have made that connect beyond the point where the left orbit ramp leave the playfield.
I can't think of many games besides CFTBL where a shot just goes to the pops...I'm others exist though.
Quoted from jimwe5t:
You are absolutely correct about 25 year old games being very very shallow code wise. After all, they were meant to be only quarter munchers with relatively quick play involved on location. I know, some people cherish AFM, MM, MB and the like, but a friend and I played all three and lit everything up in one game a piece 3 times. After a few times doing that; boring to say the least and the call out jokes become tedious hearing them over and over.
Cannot figure out why, other than nostalgia, that these games are so cherished by some. They are simple and even the creator Brian Eddy says that, so why do people think these are above reproach and continue to rate them so high compared to modern day games??? Stern, JJP, Spooky modern day technology coding does circles around these old outdated games (remember windows 95 simple super simple operating system had just begun, during those games creations). To be fair they are still fun to play, but in a HUO environment they grow old very quick.
It’s like saying the old 8 bit Pacman, Space Invaders, Donkey Kong etc. (they are fun still, but technology didn’t allow them to be as good as today’s machines) games are better or as good as the current day mega large game marvels being created in current day video games.
That’s one of the main caveats of ST, almost 50 modes! AFM, MM, MB have very few modes and only are revered because nostalgia has a way of keeping some people thinking they’re so great. If they were produced today for the first time, everyone would be complaining at how shallow the coding is and would refuse to spend $9k on any one of them.
Fun/value/ratings are all subjective. We all like different things. Depth/complexity doesn't always = fun, in any form of entertainment, including pinball.
I've had pins at home since 2003. I've got modern sterns, JJP games, I've had spooky games, the bally/williams classics etc...
Sometimes I'm in the mood for a deep game, sometimes a more simple game. I like variety, and for me, that means I want to own a game like CFTBL or WH20 or AFM or MM or Tron...and I also want JP2, LOTR, JJPPOTC, IMDN, TWD, MET, etc...
I think AFM is one of the best games ever, period. If you don't think so, that's cool. It has nothing to do with nostalgia for me...I never once played it or MM or MB at an arcade. I played it for the first time around 2004 at a friend's house. I think there is a perfect amount of code for that game, and ruling the universe is not easy at all, nor is ruling the kingdom.
I've owned an MM since 2003. Just sold my CQ restored one to spend 10k on a royal edition. Why would I do that when I could buy a deeper new game?...because it's fun.
Quoted from JustLikeMe:
Nah man you just don’t get it. I was ten or eleven when MM first came out and never saw one in an arcade, so no nostalgia here. I started buying machines when I was 18 and I’m 33 now. I’ve had MM for over a decade and it’s still my favourite game, and I’ve had countless ‘deeper’ games come and go since then. MM / AFM aren’t shallow, they just don’t have the obscene complexity of some of the modern games - but they are still perfectly balanced games that everyone can enjoy regardless of playing ability. If you prefer machines with more complex rules then that’s fine, but don’t confuse lack of complexity with being shallow.
Edit: MM is also my most popular game with non pinhead friends, all of whom are of a similar age and also have no nostalgic feelings towards it. It’s accessible, easy to learn yet hard to master, and has the best toy in pinball. Even my wife loves the game and she hasn’t really cared for any of my other games apart from Tron LE.
I've had hundreds of different people over my house over the years and MM is almost always their favorite game and the one that turned some friends into pinheads themselves.
Quoted from billsfanmd:
How in the h&$)#! Did this pass beta testing in the field?
Could be a slight issue with production...or maybe just had to be perfectly set up.
I wouldn't think it would be an issue for home owners, but as chuckwurt said the big issue will be on location.
They could always have options for defeating the demogorgan in the settings as well.
Quoted from drfrightner:
With everyone talking about Dialed In instead of what the thread is about speaks volumes. Stranger Things is a BOMB!
In my opinion it might be the very worst game Stern has ever produced. Forget the theme as a pinball this game is not good.
This game is a stranger thing, because the strangest thing is why anyone would buy this game.
I only say that because when you look at Munsters, look at how fast the LE prices dropped. You can get an LE now for $6500... that is a loss of 2500 plus.
I'm nearly positive if you wanted to sell your Jurassic Park LE RIGHT NOW you could get really close to what you paid. JJP Pirates LE you can get more than you paid. Stranger Things will be one of these games 6 months from now going for 2k loss. I'd say if you really wanted one let someone get really bored of it and then buy it and save 2k at least.
I have no clue how Stranger Things will end up, but one thing I know for sure is it's way too early to tell either way. Odds are it won't be the worst game or the best game ever. It will likely be fun.
Let's see the full featured game with closer to 1.0 code and then dog it or praise it.
You may be right, you may be wrong...only time will tell.
Quoted from drfrightner:
You bring up some interesting points but comments like these make me scratch my head. Lets unpack all this... You say its too early to tell either way. HUH? If you walk into a car dealership and look at a brand new Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger. You will immediately walk right to the one that catches your eye. You'll never say well time will tell if I like one of the others based on how some code gets added. Code can make a game more fun no doubt, but every pinball game has code. Do people love MM because of the code or because of the kick ass Castle, the monsters that pop out of the playfield, the super fun artwork, funny things that happen during the game or again is it the code? Which one do you think it is?
When I think of Attack from Mars I think about the artwork, the funny scenes on the screen, how much fun the game is to play or do I think of the code? Those old games don't have much code, yet you still pay a ton for games like Twilight Zone and there is NO CODE updates. So why would you judge a game strictly on code alone? HUH! If how the code develops impacts a value of a game then should Theater of Magic, or Indiana Jones go down in value since there are no code updates?
My point is there is more to code and I think first and foremost a game must pass the eye test. Yes there was many people on this site that ripped on Batman 66, but guess what it never impacted sales. People bought the game despite people on pinside hating on the code. Why? The artwork is amazing, one of the first games Stern ever had a color screen showing real movie clips. People love Batman 66 based on the theme first and foremost not to mention the game is fun. Yes code made the game more fun. My point is code can't save a dog. Stranger Things doesn't have Batman 66 artwork, it doesn't have the clips like Batman, and it looks cheap. Maybe the LE is better when you add in the extra features but the PRO its a DOG!
I wouldn't judge a game on code alone. We agree there. I agree that code can't save a dog.
I just don't think the Prem/LE is going to be a dog. The focus of Eddy's vision and design was around the Prem/LE and it's features...mainly the projector.
A good game needs a good layout, theme, features/toys, callouts, ruleset, art, etc...A good game has a total package that comes together. Maybe not all the individual elements are perfect, but the end result is a fun overall product.
Stranger Things (prem/LE) has the elements I look for in a game.
- 9 ball paths (counting jump ramp)
- 4 ramps
- 3-4 cool things
- projector to actively paint targets and immerse the player in different settings
- magnetic ball lock, to my knowledge the first time we've seen a lock like this that can hold multiple balls
- Demogorgan toy with drops, saucer, tamp that comes down, shooting it in his mouth, movement of the demogorgan, it certainly seems more complex than most toys Stern has in most it's games
- great theme. I love Stranger Things
- assets from the show including clips and music and cleland will work his magic...which is always awesome.
- custom callouts
I like the art.
We all like different things and that's ok. If you hate STH, the good news is Stern will release another game in 3 or 4 months.
I'd love for STH to have season 3's assets because I love season 3. I don't think it needs to be a great pin, but it would nice. Eddy's vision of basically having a blank canvas and using the projector to "change" the playfield, would be perfect to show Starcourt Mall.
I think paid for DLC, or whatever it will be called, is coming to pinball.
I see Rarehero's points though and he's not wrong about it all. Maybe if they dropped the prices back to where they were in 2010 it would be sweet, but it is hard to pay 6-15k and then fork over money for content.
I'd pay for DLC, if it made the game better in the end. It's tough to trust this model though because all of it is subjective....it's impossible to know if a game is really complete and DLC is just extra goodness, or the remaining 25% of the original game that we should have had in the first place.
I don't have all the answers, but the if companies do it, the plan should be transparent and communicated up front when the game is released.
Quoted from MapleSyrup:
There is much anticipation about seeing the Premium or LE on a stream of some sort.
Temper your expectations!! There is NO WAY the projection is going to look good on a stream. It will simply not read well due to the limits of web cams, cell phones, etc etc.
I think it’ll be something you need to see in person to judge.
I think there will be a loud chorus of “I’m out. Projection is washed out”, “Was hoping for more pop visually”, and so on.
The reality is, our human eyes will be way better at handling the crazy contrast required to view this properly. I think this will underwhelm on stream, and overwhelm in person.
Agreed. Well said.
Agreed. I'm Borged out right now. I do think he's awesome in general.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
I think a majority of buyers are fine with dimpling, it's the severity of the dimpling that's been in question as its more noticeable. Stern games are now $6k-$9k+ so there's no excuse, other than greed, to not offer a playfield that holds up equal to or better than those made 20+ years ago.
We've seen minimal dimpling playfields from CPR and know that they spend less than $50 more per playfield then Stern does to make a higher quality playfield. Why can't Stern offer the same quality after multiple yearly price increases, cost savings on cabinet items (lock down bar straps, bolts for head), and often using plastic ball returns vs metal habit rails on premium / LE models, etc?
Good summation here. I've never given a thought to dimpling, but it does seem like there is some unique things happening with STH.
Eddy seems very confident on the stream last night that it was going to look great in homes/bars.
Quoted from MapleSyrup:
The problem isn’t with producing a decent image. The problem is a camera can only deal with one exposure at a time. If it exposed for the screen, everything else is way dark. If you expose for the room, the projector is washed out.
I’m going to wait until I see it with mine own eyes.
Human eyes will do a much better job of this.
I’ll bet in typical playing conditions this machine looks great.
Agreed. We'll have to wait and see it with our eyes.
Hiking is my favorite thing to do, and landscape photography is a passion of mine that grew out of that. I've got some of the best gear money can buy, but nothing beats the human eye for a live experience.
I'm sure Stern didn't break the bank of a projector, but I'm also sure they tested the crap of this, and have a package that will work. I'm getting an LE, so I'm biased in that hope though, but I just can't imagine they would put something out that was an epic fail. Maybe I give them too much credit, but I believe it's going to look great in homes.
I do hope it's something that we could mod in the future. I'd like to have the choice/option to upgrade to a better projector. Might be impossible thought if they custom rigged something.
Quoted from jorant:
What did you think he would say? "Oh fuck this thing is a train wreck?" Of COURSE he will be positive.
It'd be pretty entertaining if he did. He just doesn't strike me as a salesmen.
Only time will tell....we'll have to see it in action. I'm not going to react emotionally and jump to conclusions. (not saying you, or anyone in particular is doing that...just speaking in general)
Quoted from kpg:
Quite sad there's only two features over the Pro, yet there's a $2K difference at least, $3000ish if an LE- and one of those is the main feature - a projector - that cost maybe $30 tops, and people are already suggesting to upgrade the upgrade
Gotta laugh at this one.
I get what you're saying...it shouldn't be something we have to worry about, and hopefully we don't have to.
I like options though. I've spent descent money upgrading factory speakers and dmds, etc... I've spent quite a bit on mods (of course, that's an augmentation and not a core feature from the factory) but the underlying principle and precedent of spending more to make a game better is there. Should we have to fix a 9k toy?...no, but it's just pinball. It's just for fun. I don't take it too seriously.
Quoted from Lermods:
I'm confused on this projector screen. How is it any different than having a small LCD screen on the pf, like in hobbit, di or sw?
Is the projector screen and the ball lock mech the only differences between the pro and prem/le?
Well theoretically, you could actively paint targets. The projector can project onto the 4 drops below the demogorgan, 4 standups on the playfield, the ramps, the sides of the ramps, and of course the main screen/ramp that comes down.
Projection mapping will be really cool if Stern can pull it off.
Quoted from DeadFlip:
Here is some more unedited convention show floor video for ya per some requests.
From the bright convention floor.
The graphic that is being projected when you first hit start is dim (the wall with the letters). Literally all other footage from the projector is bright and sharp. ♂️
Thanks Jack! I think it looks great and it's only going to be better in game rooms.
Quoted from DerGoetz:
seeing this allow me to get to my main complaint: I don't need another movie screen.
Give me a great mech instead.
i rather have 4 awesome mechs than 4 playfield screens, for example. This additional screen/projector thing is not pinball.
I see it as a lot more than another screen, if coded correctly. If executed and coded well, it'a a lot different than the screen on the Hobbit, for example.
Projection mapping could make drop targets, standups, spinners, ramps, etc...a lot more interesting. The designers/programmers could provide a lot of direction/rules to gameplay and bring a lot to life.
There's a lot of potential here for a dynamic experience in areas of pinball design.
You could start a mod business upgrading the projectors and screens
The life of game's value is a long journey.
It's true that most recent games have gone down in value, but generally speaking, pinball machines trend up in value over the long haul.
With so many games now being produced, there is a lot of churn as people sell games for money and space, but in the grand scheme of things, most new titles are still produced in low numbers and all are "rare" in a sense.
I bought my first games when I was 23 in 2002, and just about anything I could have bought then has gone up dramatically in price.
Only time will tell, but it will be interesting to see in the next 10 years how the games being made today are perceived.
As games go out of production, more and more people come into the hobby, code updates, more games find permanent homes in basements and don't leave, people "rediscover" a game, new game prices increase etc...a lot of variables go into a game's value/perception in the long run.
Quoted from NeilMcRae:
So today I got to see and play the premium.
All this noise about the projector is total nonsense. Even in a very_ well lit room at EAG the projection was great. Darker yes it’s better but I can’t imagine any of us playing near the sun and even then...
The projector content is super cool. Different symbols appear on the switches; countdowns drive different points and the backbox is lit up by the projector in a cool way. I was in two minds to change my LE order to an Elvira but I’m sticking with it. I was also able to hit the gorgon shot several times.
Awesome news. It's good to hear you liked the content.
I'm hoping for some cool rules to the modes where we have hit targets/shots in certain way/order and that is communicated to the player by the projector. Obviously, there is a ton of potential here considering how many different surfaces it can project onto.
Quoted from NeilMcRae:
No, I didn’t record it - but I was in a conference centre meeting room with the full lights on and it was fine, turn the lights down or off and yes it’s better.
I think its possible to capture it with the right equipment. Have you ever been to CES or any big show? Clowns all over the place with huge camera gimbals and back LED lights that can be seen from the ISS.
I’m a tech snob, Part of my job is running a set of TV channels, I was first in the world to broadcast soccer at 4K, I received an Emmy for technical innovation - so I’m pretty confident that the vast majority will be ok with the projector - I wasn’t able to find out details of what type it is and I know some people see rainbows in some projector types but in my view it’s perfectly fine and the way it works with the game is freaking outstanding!
Nice. That is reassuring to hear from an expert. Personally, I wasn't too worried about the core function of it...more the code, but it's still good to hear your opinion.
My early take so far from the stream and reveal in general:
Overall my impression is it captures the theme really well. It has a lot of atmosphere. It's fast, brutal, has flow, and really cool features. Not sure about the far right shot...needs the right code to help that make sense to me.
Art - A
Music and sounds effects - A+, really sets the mood and atmosphere
Lighting - B Great atmosphere in the game, light-show could use some work
Callouts - B- needs more emotion and more from the various actors (it's coming)
Layout - B+ 9 paths, fast, brutal, good flow
Toys - A+, magnetic ball lock, demogorgan with drops, ramp that lowers, shaking, shooting it in his mouth, projector has a long way to go...looks good though and has massive potential
I've had pins at home for 18 years. For 18 years things have been breaking and getting fixed. Old games/new games.
I've had NIB games from Stern, JJP, Spooky, CGC, etc...and they have all at one time needed something fixed/replaced/tweaked...etc. Sometimes it's right out of the box and sometimes it's soon after. I never owned a Bally/Williams NIB, but they had issues too when they were NIB.
If you obsess or get too OCD about stuff breaking, or are afraid to get under the hood, I would just play on location or at friend's houses.
100% of the things I needed fixed over the years got fixed...by me or a friend or someone I paid to help.
Grab a beer and some perspective. It's just pinball. You'll get it squared away and be playing in no time.
The real solution is to have at least a 3 game collection, so you have other pins to play when something goes down.
Quoted from iceman44:
It’s because, wait for it...........
Stern has made some great games, with great themes that I like
So I buy what I like, what a concept
I did NOT buy DP or Guardians due to theme and no appeal to me
And sold my IMDN because it was piece of shit quality wise under the hood
Haters won’t agree but Stern quality has increased in ways since then
JP was a game I wasn’t gonna buy until it became the greatest pin ever. Tops TWD now for me
BIGGEST thing, I pay for it, I’m playing and having fun weeks later. That means something to me
Super Chexx hockey, paid 3 weeks ago, arrives Tuesday.
Still waiting on WonkaCE!!! So I’m done with JJP Nibs even though GNR will do great
It’s all great. Best time for pinball hobby ever which is a good thing lining up with the best economy ever!
Do you know where you are Ice?
You're already in the jungle...you'll be in on GnR.
Quoted from pinmister:
Of course he will be, just getting him talking in the hype thread and he will get right on the new game train. By that time he will have probably gotten rid of JP LE(the best game ever according to Ice) and moved onto the next best game ever. Just giving you shit Ice-love you man
Ice has good taste. I love TWD and JP2. I've had an LE for both since launch. They are probably 1/2 for me all time.
I'm a massive GnR fan. I'm probably in for a CE, unless I like the art better on the LE. I really like Eric as a designer. I don't know details, but hearing this one is special.
I may be biased, but I think STH has lots of potential. If the projector is coded right, this is could be a landmark game. Time will tell.
Quoted from iceman44:
The excitement level is already off the charts.
Damn, you are right, “welcome to the jungle” baby.
But I won’t buy one Nib and have to wait 10 months again. I’ll just wait 10 months afterwards and then buy it
Haven’t even seen Turtles and it’s the second coming of 60 second video Rick and Morty!
The WWE hype is real baby!!!!!
Haha, that's more like it!!! Are you in on R&M too? I got a BSE spot last week from a distro.
Quoted from PinMonk:
At least Lonnie didn't leave GotG-labeled adjustments in the Stranger Things code system menu where they could be easily seen, like he did for Aerosmith with KISS-labeled adjustments accidentally left on the Aerosmith system menu that was released. Or did he?
One thing's for sure, Lonnie is definitely *consistently* lazy.
I tend to agree. Mike and Brian are the reason I'm hopeful here that the code on this game will be great. I think Brian cares about his pinball legacy and reputation...I think he make sure it is a great experience for the players.
I've had an STLE since launch, and it's a beautiful game for sure, but I really like the LE packages Stern has done lately.
- invisiglass or whatever Stern calls theirs
- unique inner art blades
- mirrored backglass
- unique speaker panel
- upgraded speakers
I like this configuration because there are tangible items like the shaker, glass, armor, speakers, etc...that help justify the cost difference from the premium, and you also get some LE exclusives like the art, armor, art blades, speaker panel etc...
I just want to say thank you to a @sir_tankalot...if there's a Mount Rushmore of pinball, you're on it.
You're also one of the most legendary and influential pinball players of all time.
Modern pinball would not be where it is without you. Much gratitude and respect.
Quoted from kpg:
True story and you guys are going to laugh
But after all these posts I can't un-see the demogorgan anymore. It truly does look fucking stupid. I can't stay on board with it lol. Unbelievable because I love this theme too.
There's another LE available from Trent now... Have at it.
Switched it to Jurassic Park LE. I'd rather have that bad ass dinosaur then this flared up vag. It just didn't age well with me.
I have a JPLE and you can't go wrong with that. I think it's one of the best games of all time. That's a sure thing vs a gamble in my opinion.
As far as STH goes, only time will tell. The LE's and premiums haven't even shipped, so anyone declaring it a success or failure at this point, is jumping the gun. (Not saying is you're doing that...just speaking in general) If you don't like the demogorgan...it is what it is.
I'm keeping my STH LE. I think it's all going to come down to code and execution on the projector, but I think it has a lot of potential to be a special game.
Quoted from Gotman:
First update after purchase, Jan. 13 build date. Received it two days later. I feel bad for my other four pins as they get little to no love. Game play is addictive. However, you’ve gotta be a little bit of a pinball mechanic to own this one. For example, had Demo out four times. Took ramps off to work on raising, but the trick was replacing 1/4” spacers under Demo with a small washer to lower him. Still a tough shot, but makable. Waiting for new ramp from Stern. Sound is very cool scary and a sub and shaker are a must have. I had to get over the bias against plastic ramps and in lanes because it limits potential enjoyment options, I.e., less pins to choose from. I could not be happier with the smoothness of these plastic lanes. Btw: I have a metal ramp and wire forms from LOTR getting brass plating work done as they don’t last either. (Notice to other folks posting their ratings: these are commercial machines. Operators know how to make these complex machines work better. Don’t shit on these fantastic cutting edge products because you are incompetent either mechanically or electronically as they were not intended for home use. Plus they are not museum pieces, enjoy the patina a metal ball makes on a wood surface. Patina is good, it shows you lived a little.)
You said some good stuff there, but these days pins are meant for home use. Obviously, their original intent wasn't for home use, but that tide shifted probably 20 years ago.
I think the home market is around 75% of Stern's business in the U.S,...around 50% in Europe. I think that's what Gary said last time I heard him speak.
Brian Eddy on the stream mentioned the home market many times, and how he wanted to make a game with a lot of staying power in the home.
I got my LE tonight. The box looked good.
I think it must have left the factory this way. Not sure with how it was packed that this could happen in shipping.
The metal bracket on the shooter assembly was broken in pieces, and it must have been pushed in and bent the auto plunger assembly as well.
The auto plunger assembly is bent up.
Does anyone know if the auto plunger assembly is a standard part on most Stern games? Thinking about swapping it out with another game I'm not playing as much until a replacement can come in.
Quoted from fooflighter:
That looks like something was stacked on the box by the freight company and the shooter rod/assembly took all of the weight...I'd check the cabinet corners and seams for cracking too just to be sure. Did you get pics of the box before and after opening? I would get in touch with your distributor as soon as possible as insurance claims for shipping are very short timeframes
You might be right.
Yeah, I talked to my distro right away. Box looked good. I went to the dock to pick it up. I took a picture of the box at the dock.
Sure, I guess they could say that. It was Fed Ex Freight...I've never got a game from them before. I didn't know Stern used them.
This was the box at the dock. I saw the top of the box looked a tad disturbed, so I actually did open the top and look.
I didn't see anything out of the ordinary though.
The way the game are packed the damage was hid behind the zip tied instructions and keys on the shooter knob. There was a 2nd zip tie right at the base of the shooter knob against the bracket that kind of held things in place. I didn't notice the damage until I cut that zip tie.
I'm not worried about it. I'll get it squared away one way or the other.
Quoted from kermit24:
You can tell by looking at the box that something happened to it. Luckily the damaged parts seem to be easily replaced. The only thing I might be concerned about is if the screw holes for the shooter housing are stripped out from the cabinet.
I've had boxes look a lot worse where everything was perfect, and times where the box looked perfect and there were issues. I wasn't going to find this damage unless I set up the whole game at the dock. It was well hidden behind all the stuff Stern attaches to the shooter knob.
There's 5 screws there. The bottom 2 are stripped, but the other 3 are fine. I already swapped out the shooter housing from another game and it's fine.
For the record...in case anyone has a similar issue, Stern switched to a new auto plunger assembly a few years ago.
I looked into swapping my IMDN assembly temporary to be able to play STH, but the wiring setup is different.
On STH there is a connector right at the autoplunger assembly. On IMDN, it joins with a lot of other wires and connects at a completely different point. Nothing you couldn't find out from a manual, but this could save someone some time.
Good news is I was able to take out the bent assembly and get it straight enough to work for now until a replacement can come in.
I've played about 10 games so far. Here are my initial thoughts on the game so far.
- It's really fast and brutal. I love that.
- The 2 main ramps, left orbit ramp, and burn it back loop are all great shots with fun combos and great flow.
- magnet lock works great on my game and is really cool.
- projector looks great
- music and sound affects
- Demogorgan is a cool toy. Works perfect in my game.
- the LE is a beautiful game
- needs more heart and soul in capturing the theme. More callouts, better screen integration, etc...
- Demogorgan needs to be more of a moment/event in the code. More points and fanfare with sounds/lights/shaker, etc...
- the right orbit is odd. Needs specific purpose and functions in the code to make sense to me. For example, like CFTBL you need code a certain number of pop hits to qualify stuff like super jackpots or other things at certain times
- mystery shot (the shot left of the drops is not real satisfying)
It's brutal, fast, and fun, with some really cool features, shots, and flow.
If it gets the heart and soul it needs in the code, then it could end up a great game...especially for a Stranger Things fan.
Quoted from yancy:
I never understood the disdain for plastic ramps. Long-term durability I guess? But that's a non-issue for you trailer queen collectors. They look great depending on the title. I actually prefer them in most cases, much cleaner look.
I like all kinds of ramps. Plastic ramps are typically the smoothest and fastest.
Whatever the designer thinks is best for that particular game and design, I'm good with.
Quoted from Trindawg:
Okay. So I’m gonna throw my 2 cents out here and give my opinion. As a Pro model owner, I had a bad out of the box experience with my STH machine. Brand new. And there were some wiring issues that made the ramp inoperable. Okay. After 2 weeks, my distributor tech support finally figured it out. It’s fixed and it plays. Ok. Now. I have been following these forums closely, and it doesn’t look like LE owners have been having much more luck with their machines either! The magnetic ball lock for one. The demogorgon toy , for 2. I really don’t get it. Why are we having these issues with these expensive machines? Yes. I understand as owner/operators, there’s going to have to be maintenance done on a regular basis. But to have issues right out of the box is inexcusable. And the majority of the LE owners seem to be ok with this. I could see a couple units out there Falling through the cracks and having some small issues. But not this many. Or to have every one of them with the issue. Why are we, as owners, made to fix the issues that stern should have fixed before it even got out the door ?? It’s just mind blowing for me. I know I’m new to the hobby, but I work very hard for my money, as we all do here, to accept the low quality we’ve been getting on these machines. Idk. Don’t get me wrong. I love my game and I love the theme. I’m a huge fan of the show. But this is getting out of hand.
I can't speak for other LE owners, but my game has been perfect (other than shipping damage, which I can't blame Stern for)
My lock works great. My demo works great. I haven't adjusted one thing at all. Maybe I'm lucky...I don't know.
I have about 30 plays on my LE now. The more I play this game, the more I like it. I think it's really fun and addictive.
I really like the modes and foundation of the rules a lot.
It plays so fast, with great combos, and punishes bad shots.
I've beat the first 3 demo mode so far. The 2nd mode is. 2 ball mutiball and you have to get it in his mouth 2x I believe. In the 3rd mode you have to hit it in there 3 times.
Quoted from Rarehero:
If they tested them, we would know about them before announcement. They used to put out protos of new games at random arcade locations so they could see what works & what doesn’t, then revise and improve before release. They don’t do that anymore.
I don't think the ones coming off the line on a daily basis get played or tested as much as they should.
I think the overall game itself gets played and tested a bunch internally, but the individual games getting boxed need a little more attention in my opinion.
Waxing my LE. This is the first time I've used this wax. Seems great. Anyone on here have experience with it?
Quoted from PinMonk:
What are the ingredients? Carnuba is hard, so to make it liquid, it's more than likely cut in with petroleum distillates, which are a no-no. Looked quickly online and didn't see any ingredients listed anywhere. Is there a list on the bottle back?
And holy crap is the layout work on that label gradeschool-level bad. The text is pulled to align to the edges with no care given to the auto massive spacing inserted in the lines.
It doesn't say the ingredients. I guess I'll be safe and go back to what I've always used.
Quoted from C0untDeM0net:
I wax my pins with this stuff amazon.com link »
It needs to be warmed up in order to get it on the pads. Works really well for me and makes my pins play ridiculously fast with crazy spin for a week or so after application. I've not waxed my Stranger things yet tho. Thought you weren't supposed to wax them for a few months to let the clear cure fully. I use novus one to clean in the mean time.
I've never heard that, but you may be right.
So many people on pinside seem so angry, bitter, and negative...like they can't wait to get furious about something.
I'm not directing this at anybody in particular...just speaking in general. That can't be a great way to live.
But the mod if you want. Don't buy it if you don't want. We're taking about a toy...it's just pinball and shouldn't be taken so seriously.
I'm just happy there is another cool thing to the game I didn't know about. I don't think Stern is making a ton on this mod (I could be wrong) This seems more like something cool they wanted to do, and found a way to make it happen.
I'm not saying they're perfect, no company is, but I'm grateful to Stern because I have a lot of fun with the products they make.
Quoted from thirdedition:
I guess I'm on the wrong side of this one then. I can't for the life of me figure it why this wasn't included in every machine. I'm not angry or bitter, just disappointed.
I have no clue about Stern's business model, profit margin, BOM details, or anything like that. I could be wrong, but this feels like something they wanted to do, and this was they way they could get it done. Maybe they also wanted to have some fun and surprise people...I don't know.
I'm a pretty laid back guy, so maybe I'm the oddball, but I spend more than $280 on stupid crap all the time...including pinball mods, so personally, I'm just excited about this.
I think a lot of people on here take themselves way too seriously.
I think a lot of people on Pinside are overly reactive, emotional, and negative.
I think when the dust settles and more rational/logical thought returns, people will realize this is a great game.... it is brutal, fast, has great flow, an awesome ball lock, innovative projector, cool UB artwork, and a fun demo toy. I think it's going to be a special game when it's all said and done, and I think Brian Eddy and the team did some great work.
Stern isn't the devil. They make fun pinball machines. It's just weird to me that so many people complain so much about a completely unnecessary toy/purchase in general (Speaking of pinball in general...not the UV thing) I you don't like something...don't buy it. It's just pinball...in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter. I think most of us could use a little perspective.
If money is the big hangup, just buy one used or get a show deal. You want have to dial in a machine and you'll save money vs NIB.
The one thing I would really like to see change is for Stern to have true competition. I'm rooting for other companies to push Stern in the future. That's good for everybody.
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