(Topic ID: 257038)

Stern Stranger Things

By pinmister

2 years ago


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  • 7,151 posts
  • 646 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by Neonblack
  • Topic is favorited by 83 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Are you interested in a Stern Stranger Things pinball machine?”

  • Yes, I am interested if it plays well and has polished code 486 votes
    40%
  • No, I am not interested 439 votes
    36%
  • Maybe, not a huge fan of the franchise but maybe if it plays well 100 votes
    8%
  • I like pizza 202 votes
    16%

(1227 votes)

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Topic index (key posts)

13 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #972 Stranger things video Posted by halflip87 (2 years ago)

Post #975 Stranger Things screen shots Posted by Rascal_H (2 years ago)

Post #1751 Feature matrix from Stern. Posted by twenty84 (2 years ago)

Post #1774 Pro features video. Posted by proco (2 years ago)

Post #1775 Trailer with intro from Duffer Bros. Posted by johnnyutah (2 years ago)

Post #1793 First shipping confirmation photo. Posted by Tilt (2 years ago)

Post #1829 Pics of official Stern accessories. Posted by RebelGuitars (2 years ago)

Post #1835 Brian Eddie podcast link on game. Posted by C2CPinball (2 years ago)

Post #3236 Nice game review Posted by delt31 (2 years ago)

Post #3275 This Week In Pinball deep dive. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)


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#2458 2 years ago

I have a LE reserved and will decide to take delivery of it after I see some Prem/LE videos.

My main concerns:

1) Lonnie being the main coder. When's the last time he coded a great game?

2) Fan layout. Very much like AFM, but those layouts in my opinion do not hold well long term in a home use environment

3) Projector. Based on the Stern trailer, and even thinking about how projection looks, this is going to be very questionable. Projectors need very little ambient light to give a good picture. Dark room or not, the playfield/backglass/LCD are going to light that whole thing up. I predict many people will be disappointed with the projection quality being washed out. Just watch the trailer and especially the ramps, clearly the person playing is in a total black room. The ramps and everything looks very washed out. Picture it in a lineup in a dark room with all your other pins.

This game could have also been a great candidate for using the mag-slings like they did in Ghostbusters. Imagine during Telekenisis multiball having magnets flinging everything around, even something like how Dialed In does it.

Love the theme and am hoping I'm wrong.

#2461 2 years ago

I admit I've never played that game or even research it. I'll look into it. Been out of the loop for a while.

#2473 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

You do realize None of your listed concerns will be erased with a Prem/LE video so why are you still interested? Such a confusing justification.

A video of how the projector looks either washed out or not, and the people commenting on how it looks in person. That's the main concern I guess, I just read that Lonnie is being helped by a team rather then himself, so that gives promise on the code.

Interesting thing it was mentioned Guardians been a good game with Lonnie code. I also just looked up who designed that and it's a Borg design. So maybe it takes a Borg designed playfield to improve Lonnie's code.. hopefully it all comes together with Brian Eddy's playfield design and experience. With that said, I feel it can be cleared up in a video as gameplay of the LE may feature newer code.

#2484 2 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

I think the best thing to come from stranger things pinball is robt , kpg , and even rarehero are back! Lol

Lol !!! Stern knows what they're doing with the theme that's for sure.

The thing about Stranger Things pinball is let's be totally honest:

1) Is it going to be a Top 10 pin? Absolutely not.

2) Is the playfield sparse and not nearly as cool as recent Keith Elwin game? F**k no.

3) Is the code going to hold a candle to anything Lyman can do? Hahahah c'mon

I think we all know that going into this.

But in all honesty, themes matter in pinball. My kids won't touch my existing machines except for Metallica, rarely anything else I've owned. Same with my wife.

But when they heard there's a Stranger Things pinball? They couldn't care less about Lonnie code or sparse playfield this and that.

It's.A.Stranger.Things.Pinball and they want it. Outside of us diehards looking for the next Top 10 pin, there's others who just find amusement with the fact they can relate to the sounds, music, and recognizable names of modes and crap like that. Makes it fun for those who aren't pinnerds like us and that's why I want it

#2503 2 years ago
Quoted from Sako-TRG:

Selective help I guess.
Funny how they are willing to help you and your 13 year old pin but won’t help people with new Pins.
Get yourself over to the ongoing playfield issue forum.

I used to be pretty negative on Stern as a company a couple years ago. I had a bad playfield on my Ghostbusters LE. I did make a stink about it, but I'll tell you this, Gary Stern personally called me and we had a 45 min convo about the issue and other things and he promised he'd make it right himself.

They shipped me a populated playfield and I exchanged it. I had my doubts obviously. But they pulled through and completely made up for it which is why I'm still a customer of Stern.

Contact your distributor if you're having a problem and see what they can do.

#2579 2 years ago

Fact is this.

In your game room, picture AFM and Stranger Things sitting next to each other lit up. Rest of your machines are dark.

A group of 10 guests come over, none of which have touched a pinball machine ever or for many many years.

They look over and what do each of them say?

Oh Look! An Attack From Mars pin.. let's play! LOL - negative.

They will see a Stranger Things branded pin and want to play it for that reason alone. They will actually be interested in trying pinball because of the theme. The layout won't be intimidating or tough to understand.

For people like me who use their pins as entertainment for guests, it's a homerun and will interest people in actually playing them.

#2602 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Buying games for your family and friends is always a mistake. Nothing is gonna force these people to like pinball.
Buy what ya want!

Very true. Good thing I want what they want.

Win/win on this one

#2636 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Bingo. And it’s a scoop in AFM FYI. Gobble holes drain the ball.

Speaking of Gobble holes, Stern could totally reuse the Demogorgan mech if they ever decided to make a pin based on the movie Teeth lol

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#2706 2 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Multiple magnets under the center of the playfield (Dialed In / Addams Family style) would have been perfect considering 11's powers. The magnets could have been used in a number of chapter modes and multiballs where 11 uses her powers. This would also break up the void in the middle of the playfield and overall add a lot more excitement to the game.

The re-introduction of Magslings would have been great for this game. I thought that was one of the coolest features of Ghostbusters. Having a mode where the ball(s) could be held then flung around like how 11's powers in the show works would would have been awesome. A video playing of her throwing shit around while that happened would have been perfect.

#2713 2 years ago
Quoted from Dr-Willy:

There is definitely need for light show improvement. I wanted to see all the lights flicker randomly they way they do in the Byers house before the demigorgan shows up. Hopefully they put something like this into the game, would be perfect for upside down mode.

Or if the game could go very dark, limited GI and show those white floating things in the Upside Down on the projector... That would be cool

The intro to that could be dramatic and random lights flickering a bunch then go dark. Maybe similar to Star Trek before the laser light show.

#2714 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

No game should ever have magna slings ever again, ever. Let that idea die in hell with John Trudeau.

Noooooooo I liked those man !!

But

You reminded me of something.

John Trudeau. Totally forgot about that guy and his story. Good point.

#2750 2 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

Since Eddy did the design, and given Eleven's telekinesis ability, I was hoping for a revamped magnet "fling" similar to the Sanctum lock on The Shadow. Ideally, would have loved a player-controlled magnet grab&fling that you could activate, which would fling the ball into a lane/loop.
Regardless, I still like the look of how the game shoots, and I look forward to playing both the Pro and Prem/LE.

Yeah but you remember how bad the playfields on Shadows became in that Sanctum area. Then you'd have Pinside going crazy about how they shouldn't have had that feature because of playfield issues. Can't ever make anyone happy lol

#2768 2 years ago
Quoted from Dr-Willy:

Im re-watching both right now myself after seeing some of the stream to refresh my memory. I remember thinking season 2 was terrible when i first watched, but after a re-watch (and watching right after finishing season 1) i think its really good now.

It truly is a great show. Tons of 80s references and awesome characters. Killer storyline.

Personally I found season 3 really tie it all in together and solidify it as one of my favorite shows ever. Everyone I've talked to feels the same, although I've heard some disagree with me on that. It's really just one of the best shows that's came out in the last several years IMO.

#2818 2 years ago

From the stream the shot looked easy and they made it a lot. Strange, maybe a setup issue?

Its too bad they just didn't make the Demegorgan head pop out of a wall, then you have to hit it X amount of times to spell something to start multiball... A'la TWD. That to me is a super satisfying way to start a multiball - feels good everytime you get Prison MB going and it never seemed to be too easy to too hard to get it going, but just right.

If they could have a mode where the ramp comes down and you have to hit it X amount of times to start a MB, or even lock a ball in its mouth during MB to save one/kick another out like Metallica, that would be a good use for the toy.

Imo, so much can be improved on with code.. lots of potential

#2833 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballOsp:

Was really looking forward to this one but the stream was just ok -- nothing interesting thus far. If I wanted AFM, I'd play AFM.
Was really hoping Upside-Down would be some new, revolutionary feature but so far it seems like a load of nothing.
They will save it with modes/coding, Stern always does, but one day even that will get old.

Dude this is nothing like AFM. Just picture replacing this thing with AFM music and sound effects. It would feel nothing like the machine. Just like you could play the theme song for Wheel of Fortune over a Terminator 2 action scene and it would make it feel like a completely different movie. That's not even getting into essentially every part of the machine (besides some layout similarity) that's different.

What type of revolutionary feature were you expecting? Where legs pop out of the bottom of the cabinet, and flips the machine Upside-Down and a fuckin Demegorgan pops out and high fives you?

Its a pinball machine. It has a Stranger Things theme, with sounds, video, modes related to the show and shit lol... have some fun, that's what this hobby is all about

23
#2990 2 years ago

After reading gameplay impressions, watching gameplay videos, and really thinking about this one... And as much as I absolutely love the theme, I've decided to cancel my LE and ordered a JP Prem instead.

I've been burned on a couple Lonnie coded games in the past, and although there's a team behind him now, as the saying goes "I'll believe it when I see it". Combine that with some interesting layout quirks and the unknown about the projector situation, I feel this particular LE is a bit too risky to jump in so soon for almost $9K, sight unseen like I've done for several years.

Keith Elwin blew me away with Iron Maiden and I love that pin and the code.. and JP I'm sure will be awesome as well. Stranger Things is a perfect theme, but at the end of the day, I realized that was the only reason I wanted it.

I hope it turns out awesome for you guys waiting for it and I'll be watching it progress from the sidelines and hopefully I'll find a place to get some games on it.

#3119 2 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

They do not always finish their games, my CSI was absolutely incomplete and a general mess code wise and the reason I sold it. Stern has abandoned games before from a perspective of code.
That said, Stern’s coding over the last few years has been nothing short of absolutely spectacular. The chances of a major license like Stranger Things not getting a full code implementation seems rather remote. Still, Lyman is not coding this game and that does give me pause as he does code the “funnest” games in my opinion.

Can you imagine if Lyman coded this game?

One of my favorite show-inspired licensed games of all time, TWD, is a coding and rules masterpiece in my opinion.

Combined with the brutal layout and design by Borg, I truly think they could have done an amazing job with the Stranger Things license.

Imagine if Stranger Things had the features of TWD.

Better yet, imagine if TWD had the features of Stranger Things. What if TWD simply had a large screen with a projector playing video clips, a ramp comes down, and you have to make it into a zombies mouth? And that was the main "feature".

Well, I think we can all agree that would be pretty lackluster.

Now, what if Stranger Things had TWD features? I don't need to list them all... You can picture how loaded that layout is. Combined with Lyman code, Stranger Things was really a prime candidate for another Borg/Lyman "dream team theme"

Oh well. It is what it is.

#3132 2 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

Dwight Sullivan does quite a bit of shallow coding. I had this debate in the Munsters thread when it was announced. Wasn’t proven wrong.
He’s no Mr. Sheats, that’s beyond dispute.

When given the opportunity and time, Dwight can code some very deep rulesets. GOT comes to mind... That ruleset is so deep it's insane. Star Wars is super deep and complicated as well.

#3230 2 years ago
Quoted from Morhaus:

I like the layout. The ramp and demigorgon don’t block “half” of the playfield someone wrote. The layout is nice. I like how you can make shots on both sides of playfield, which is nice for all players. The deep rules will make it nice for advanced players. the right side of JP is nearly impossible for novices to hit. Thus my dilemma on trading JP for Sth.

What did you like better, JP or STh based on first impressions alone?

#3231 2 years ago
Quoted from pipes:

That works both ways of course.

Definitely.

I think when it comes to purchases in the multi-thousands of dollars such as HDTVs, DSLR cameras, Pinball machines and other consumer products many people are absolutely swayed by reviews and opinions of those products whether it be on YouTube, forums, websites etc. I'm not sure why anyone would question or advise against that.

#3235 2 years ago
Quoted from calprog:

All pinball is cool as is this one. Theme is great and shots look nice. Code will come along! Who cares what people think. Really!

I think many of us come on Pinside just to see what people think and care about certain games. I think that's why most people are on this thread. Isn't that the point of reviews? Do you happen to use Yelp for anything ?

#3242 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Here's my review of playing this game for about 2 hours today. Shout out to Helicon Brewery for being the absolute king of location pinball!
Shot summary - I was a little weary after watching the stream and hearing a lot of negative feedback but after playing it today, I'm picking up a pro tomorrow. That should get my point across fairly easily. It has brought one of my fav shows to pinball and it executes well with a fun layout, excellent music and effects, their best LCD art to date and a two tier toy. While not fully baked, I rather buy in now and enjoy it instead of waiting on the sidelines only to hold out on the fun until the inevitable code updates happen.
+Smooth shooter. Layout is very AFM so it feels familiar but not identical but I was a little worried about the ramps being plastic. Luckily they didn't detract at all to the experience. Love that left orbit shot to the right flipper (very DP prem). Right orbit was my concern but shooting it into the pops was still satisfying although I am a sucker for pops in pinball. Right inlane shot has to be my fav as you can loop it around but it's not fast enough to be impossible (ala JP2 top right flipper loop) but not slow enough that it doesn't feel fun/exciting. Just a great shot and mixes up the formula as part of the code is looping. Left inlane was fine as gives you a little time to breath which was nice to have as this game plays rather fast, as you would expect. No lock on the pro was fine as it does pause enough and when you got into Tele MB, the ball is shot right when that van comes crashing down which was a nice touch.
+LCD Screen - no question, the best stern has put out to date. I own JP2. I know it improved in that game but you can't ignore certain scenes (especially with people) where you cringe a little and go, well it's a pinball machine so what do you expect. I didn't feel any of that here with Stranger Things (ST) - the dogs, the atmosphere, the demogorgan... I feel they really played to their strengths and avoided the pitfalls (like people) so I didn't feel like I was playing Dreamcast Crazy Taxi! They did and excellent job and I found myself trying to look up at it. I make fun of stern all the time regarding this but they nailed it here. btw - extra ball animation is a complete shout out to AFM replacing the alien getting hit in the face with the demo. Nice touch too.
+Sounds/Music- This one is BIG for me. If you're a player that doesn't need to hear well to enjoy, then you're the opposite of me and prob don't place a lot of value in this category but I do. Case in point, with Wonka, it absolutely tore me out of the gorgeous table and layout b/c the slot machine effects and the announcer and lack of good music really pissed me off - to the point where I passed on owning the game...it drove me crazy. ST on the other hand just nails it. The sound effects, the spooky music, it really put me in the ST universe. It's hard to describe in a review but I couldn't have handpicked better myself. In the current code though, it's clear they are targeting suspense/scary vs humor which they need to balance better but I'm aware the lines are in the code already so just a matter of time. The important part is what's been coded thus far is really impressive and that's important b/c after the fact replacements is hard and often ends up disjointed. Music wise that's easier but I do a lot of add ins for games and it's always better when the original team nails it and Stern crushed it here.
+Demogorgan- I had to call this out separately b/c I've read about all the whining and complaining related to this toy and my expectations were probably lower than they should have been but I really enjoyed it. Here's the surprise for me. I might have read this somewhere on these forums but it truly feels like the hole in one shot from NGG. I love the temporary giant ramp that drops in front of you and it becomes a game of not only hitting it but timing it so it goes in the hole. I wasn't successful many times (although I'm also not very good) but when I connected, it gave me the same satisfaction from my time of NGG ownership and I loved that shot. It's much more fun to shoot than the AFM mother ship b/c of that extra element resulting in having a tiered approach to what is normally a one approach bash toy. Loved it. Hit it or sink it. It's hard but super satisfying.
+/- = code. This is def leaning towards the + category b/c the modes seemed varied (and could get to that promised "deep" code), the video assets looked very good, the tie in to the effects and music already impressed me. I just want more.....and that's the negative. I know it's early but believe me, the code foundation is set and it is solid. Really enjoyed what I played and I'm eager to see how they build. It's going to get even better and I have no issue buying in now so I can begin to enjoy what's there and then continue enjoying all the new updates that hit. It's like buying an episodic game that just continues to get better. It's the opposite of a game with broken or incomplete code that results in boredom or wasting time - I truly enjoyed each second I had with it.
-/+ Art. Tough one as well. It's not clipart stern bad. Yes it might appear to favor that style more than what we've seen recently but the PF art especially along with the purple really has it's own look. It stands out from the rest of the games and it does surface that 80s touch, especially with the fonts used. Too many inserts no question but looking over it and seeing how they represented the scenes from the seasons in interesting ways, from the poisioned grounds, to the vans to billy and steve's face over to something else - it's a lot to look at but satisfying, especially as a fan. It's a negative b/c it could have been SO much more. So much - hello season 3??. I'm happy that it's not terrible though but I'm looking forward to some sick side blades (we need more Billy and Steve) and a better translite. Speaking of, it's not great but not terrible - in fact that summarizes it well for art and for that alone, with this type of powerhouse, it's leaning negative which is a shame but they gave us enough to enjoy.

Awesome review.

This kind of feedback is why I come to Pinside and why I definitely do care what others think about a game, good or bad.

Ultimately, us consumers weigh both the Positive and Negative comments, reviews, and experiences in order to find a balance of where we stand and if it passes the first test before buying: Do I truly want it in the first place? Your review definitely helps push me back in that direction because of how detailed it was.

Ultimately I'll still want to play it before buying, but you made me want to play it even more now.

#3254 2 years ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Bit of a straw man. We were talking about people who have never played the pin either tearing it apart or calling it the GOAT and how so many people just latch onto those “reviews” so easily and become part of the rabble.
Most reviews as you’re referring to are from people who actually used the product. There is a difference between conjecture reviews and reviews based on actually using a product.

Not sure what you're talking about, but I specifically meant the feedback from those who have played it both good and bad.

#3320 2 years ago

I believe I located where the projector is in the apron.

Looks like a small lense, likely there's 2-3 for the entire playfield? Not sure... But notice how dark the room is this guy is playing it, and how washed out the screen is.

Hopefully it looks better in person than this because I think we can all agree that washed out projected video kind of sucks.
Screenshot_20191230-125739_YouTube (resized).jpg

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#3386 2 years ago

Just caught up on the thread, and it blows me away that the actual topic of this is about a pinball machine with a Netflix TV show theme, a machine designed for people to have fun and play for a score.

A game that is supposed to being people together over a beer and have a good time and hang out, especially in a world filled with online games like Fortnite.

Instead, it seems to do the opposite at times on Pinside and that really sucks.

From arguments to how the artwork was drawn, to DLC content debates, to even a Hitler joke.

Guys let's all just relax a bit. We're just some dudes here talking about a damn pinball machine. Would we get into arguments like this in person? Hell no. Let's all just chill the fuck out Lol.

Haven't been on here for a while but it's the same old shit. Gotta admit, I missed it

#3406 2 years ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

It's a forum for opinions. I debate with my friends about the quality of each new pin that comes to market. We often disagree and enjoy the debate. I would hate this place if it was a sentimental circle-jerk.
No one is forcing you to read any of this.

Lol... I think you missed my point man. But it's all good.... Your response just added to it. Happy New Year

#3407 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Crazy day yesterday but got an opp late at night to play latest code. One thing I didn't have any trouble with was that center shot. I actually got the ball in the hole many times so def not a design issue but machine by machine.
Getting the table setup properly was harder than usual. Not just balance but the table level seemed to have to be really perfect to get the shots to play as designed. All tables are like this but this one seems very sensitive which might explain the varing center shot.
Morse code mode has a really annoying beap that needs to be addressed...I know what they're going for but it needs to be dialed back.
More call outs but still not nearly enough
I like Harper call outs in certain situations but some will likely need to be pinbrowser'd out. One I keep on hearing is OOOOOOKAAAY. Just not a great delivery.
Game is fun. Upside down world mode now has more color difference so the entire pf goes purple. Sound effects are great.
No pf issues at all.
Lighting on this is good. Will just add a couple of spots maybe but with all the inserts it really is bright but still has that scary feel.
Speaking of, the game is so dark/spooky that including neverending story at the end would kind of break the feel. Thinking about where it might be best.... But injecting humor into this at this state will be interesting on Sarena part.
Love that theme music.
Looking at the premium screens and playing the pro, the images they showed on the premium reveal literally take the video from the pro and project it into the premium screens.....I thought it might be doing this (pro shows on lcd premium shows on the white screen). Premium will show letters and other smaller things on target and spinner.

Great review and thanks for taking the time for the write up!

You mentioned it took a while to set up the machine.

Would you mind sharing those details if you could? What pitch did you settle with?

#3433 2 years ago

Have you guys that are having a hard time getting your balls in the mouth (hehe) tried just simply adjusting the Flipper coil strength +/- in the Settings menu and experiment with that?

10
#3566 2 years ago

The day DLC becomes a thing for pinball is the day I stop buying NIB machines.

#3580 2 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Actually, the whole reason that topic got brought up is because of the lack of season 3 assets on the pin. So yes, it has everything to do with it.
Never fails to amaze me how 'me me me' people are on the internet. "Don't talk about things I don't want to talk about or disagree with me, or I'll throw a fit". SMH.

TWD had only a couple seasons in it and you don't see anyone complaining Negan and other characters aren't on it.

It's a fantastic pin for many reasons and it truly doesn't matter there's only a couple seasons of stuff on it.

#3583 2 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

TWD also had Lyman.

Oh trust me, I didn't want to even mention because no doubt that he made that pin amazing.

I'm guess what im saying is that if the code can be great and the game fun, no one will care it doesn't have any S3 content. Either way this is Lonnie were talking about. For all we know it's 100% finished to him and he's just going to add a couple sounds and bugfixes then take a vacation from it for 1-2 years

Hate to say that but I think we can all agree that's the one thorn in the games side that we all know is there and is the big "What if" with this one.

#3588 2 years ago
Quoted from Rockytop:

Also, cleland worked his magic and brought callouts from other seasons (like Neegan) and made the game a lot better.

I actually did my own sound package for TWD as well, I think last time I checked over 350 people downloaded it from my link too. I had added the Negan whistle, new music, and a ton of updated callouts for it.

If I end up getting this game, I'll likely fire up pinball browser and do my own mix as another option to cleland's

#3748 2 years ago

Stern should include Playfield Protectors installed on the LEs at minimum, even Premiums. Or, better yet, just put a playfield protector on each playfield before then machine is assembled. At the prices of NIB pins why can't that just be a standard thing at this point? It would probably save them money in the long run from playfield issues, complaints, etc...

#3751 2 years ago
Quoted from JodyG:

Because many people, myself included, think playfield protectors are stupid. The game doesn't play the same.

I guess what I meant is can they not engineer and create some type of layer that goes over the playfield to prevent dimpling?

Honestly I could give two shits really. My games have dimples on them, nothing crazy, I just don't care. I figure heavy steel ball + bouncing on soft wood and paint = indentations lol

#3805 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Not just the theme song, but the 80s cartoon had an amazing library of stock music they used within the show. I hope the games music is heavily based on it.
What makes you think they’ve fixed the pf issues? Have you seen the crater STh playfield pix? Then again, I just played a JP that looked fine...it’s a crapshoot, and that still worries me.

I'm all in on a TMNT pin especially if Borg is doing the playfield. None of his designs have ever let me down.

But here's the thing, if playfield dimples will let you down, then I'd just make up your mind now that you won't be totally happy in that regard. It's going to dimple, some more than others, likely due to the variance in wood they use. You likely play the "dimple lotto" because you may get one that dimples more then another.

Thankfully I am not irritated by that at all and I don't really care because I actually never see them unless I really try to look for them. Playing the game I never see them. No one else who's played my machines see them.

Now when I had ghosted inserts in my GB and clear coat pieces chipping off? Yeah, that sucked and pissed me off.

I'd say this, if you truly want a specific game or theme - just buy it to have fun and just don't get close enough to see the dimples. Just buy it and have a blast

#3855 2 years ago

I have had my IMDN LE for a while now, and I love that pin. After all this dimple talk, I decided to really look for the dimples on the game as I have never cared to notice before. Yeah, theres a ton.

But when I am playing and even just looking at it, I don't even notice.

Example... pic taken the same time.. first shot is what I normally see when playing, and the other is when you get super close up. I am not saying its not an issue, but seriously, you have to really get down and look for it. Afterwards, I had an awesome game and totally forgot about it.

20200104_155804 (resized).jpg
20200104_155738 (resized).jpg

#3878 2 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

I may be in the minority but I believe all of the Stern games have turned out to be good games. I only have two Stern games that do not interest me-WWE and Iron Maiden. I tried to get into WWE but the layout with the ring was no fun to me and Stern's only fail-imo. Iron Maiden has been proclaimed as a masterpiece by many-I just cannot find myself to enjoy the theme with the music. I am not interested in using pinball browser to change out the music-plus it seems sacrilegious to do so? So only two Sterns that do not do it for me in 20 years-not too shabby. All of these new releases are beginning to feel like groundhogs day to me. Rinse and repeat-I am out! Look at the dimples! This code sucks! The toy is lame! I am in for a LE! Best game Stern has made! Total polar opposite opinions that are all over the board. The only game where everyone seemed to be on the same page was Metallica-not much hate for that game at launch.
What I am trying to convey is Stern games are like a fine wine-they tend to get better with age. Everyone wants to break out the flaming torches and state their opinion, but give it a year or two and this game should become another great Stern. Time will tell.

I recommend not buying a music themed pin that has music you do not like. That's like going to a concert to watch a band you do not enjoy the music they are playing. Why buy the tickets in the first place?

Some people can buy machines that love the game and are not total fans of the music and I get it. My comment is specific to you, what was the decision to buy Iron Maiden when you do not like Iron Maiden? To me its an amazing game and the music amplifies that.

#3886 2 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

I am not understanding your question? Not sure if you mis-understood my post? I did not purchase Iron Maiden(..one of the two Sterns I do not like) because of the theme and music(like nails on a chalkboard). I am sure it plays great-I am very interested in Stern doing a mirrored re-theme with Iron Maiden layout. Beetlejuice or Mission Impossible would be an instant buy for me using the Iron Maiden layout.

Sorry, I misread that! You said "I only have two Stern games that do not interest me" - as in I thought you had/owned it. Apologies for that!

But yeah, the Iron Maiden layout is solid for sure. Keith not only knows how to lay a game out correctly, but code the shit out of some great rules that just comes together so well.

Hiring Keith Elwin was the best thing Stern has done for pinball in many years.

It's hard not to think what he could have done with the Stranger Things license.

#3889 2 years ago
Quoted from RipleYYY:

indeed...
i was really NOT a metallica fan, but i bought & enjoy the pin very much (and btw it help me to discover positively their music)

Great example because MET is such a great game, the music doesn't matter - my wife is not a fan of Metallica but MET is her favorite pin of all time.

I really hope Stranger Things ends up being a game that is primarily loved for the layout + code and not just the theme itself. Because if it's the latter that will be a disappointment.

#3915 2 years ago

Bad move on Stern's part to not reveal the Prem/LE in a light controlled environment prior to displaying it where it looks like total shit.

Should have had Dead Flip stream it before this... I can see a lot of people either cancel their orders if they already placed one, and not order one if they were on the fence. Sure it's a bright room, but it's not as if the projector screen in the Stern official trailer video looked all that great either...

Screenshot_20191230-125421_YouTube (resized).jpg
#3952 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Come on man! I want to hear how clear prevents dimpling!!

Lol- The clear coat on our cars paint jobs is to prevent door dings, right ?

#3993 2 years ago

One thing we can all agree on,

Let's just be glad the artwork and backglass looks as good as it is... it could have been worse and Stern could have rehashed some old ACDC artwork to save a few bucks

StrangerThings-Pro-Cabinet-FF-4gnlkafad.jpg
#4099 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

No
The ball just gets a lot of air from stand-up targets being shot head on (fan layout) and the drop targets going head on. The ramp shots always end up in the monster area or behind it.

Maybe the same fix can be done for those that fixed the Ghostbuster's Scoleri brothers drop targets, using these springs...

https://www.pinballlife.com/ghostbusters-scoleri-brothers-drop-target-spring-fix-kit.html

13
#4122 2 years ago

Guys, this projector idea looks like a flop. I wanted to wait to say it, but really, there are literally no pictures indicating the effect is going to work the way we all expect it to. It just looks bad. I am going to say it, but this is the first time I truly think the Pro is the way to go over a Prem & LE. I know there will be people who disagree, but at the end of the day, its a gigantic white screen and white ramps on the playfield and it doesn't seem the projector is strong enough to overcome that.

#4128 2 years ago
Quoted from jandrea95:

thanks! i think the projector will work well to be honest. pretty cool to hear they are still working with the licence to include more content, etc.

I'd like to hear why you think it will work well? Do you have any other information than what is being presented in these pictures in the real world? I'd love to know.

#4130 2 years ago
Quoted from frankmac:

Has to be better than this . Looks like nothing. Terrible.
Fix it Stern or it Flops .
Hoping it gets better fast.

The issue is the lumens output of the projectors.

I am a videophile and have done numerous projector/home theater builds in the past. Projector lumens output and the screen material that it is projected on needs to be ideal for the environment in which it will be presented.

Clearly the issue here is the projectors Stern has used are inadequate as far as lumens output goes. Its quite simple, they do not output enough light and the white screen material they use is likely not a high gain material (1.4-1.5 or so) needed to properly display the projected images.

It all comes down to the fact Stern didn't want to pony up the money for a better projector set up and they likely already bought a ton of these projector units in bulk from China somewhere and they won't be swapping them out.

Bummer all around because it's a cool idea, just poor execution.

#4134 2 years ago
Quoted from jandrea95:

my reasoning is that i own projectors and they look like absolute ass in well lit areas, my basement arcade is not well lit, its lit like an arcade and will make projector technology actually work, as opposed to a convention floor with overhead lighting. it was poor choice to show this game off in such a setting without a tent, but it is what it is.
i just dont trust photographs of a projector, because i know how they work. the presentation is shit, im not disputing that, but in an arcade, that is lit like an arcade, itll be fine.

Well, if you use a projector with enough lumens and a high gain screen of 1.4 or higher, then they can look really damn good in well lit areas which was my point.

The problem here is it looks like "ass" because the projectors are "ass" lol

This is a good example of a proper lumens output + proper projection surface + well lit area.. notice you cant see any of the white screen behind the images?
ProCinemaG6900_screen_bright_room (resized).jpgprojector-in-bright-room (resized).jpg

#4136 2 years ago

And here is an example of a crappy low lumens projector.

It's really simple, the projector installed in the machines are low light output cheapo projectors.. it's really not rocket science at all.

img_4576 (resized).jpg
#4137 2 years ago
Quoted from OnTheSnap:

The advantage on the pinball machine is we are talking about a throw distance of like 2' max? So if you dump the shitty 100 lumen projector in the machine and install a $300 600 lumen one, it will be night and day better.
No doubt the early owners will have a look at this.

Yeah, but why should anyone need to put a $300 projector upgrade in their $7900-$9K pinball machine that is already thousands of dollars more expensive then the Pro/Non Projector machine? That sucks. There's no excuse for this, if they were going live with this new feature they should have implemented it with the right hardware.

Not to mention the screens are surrounded by LED lights all over the playfield which further reduces the projected image quality. No doubt they knew this machine really could have used better projectors and they went the cost cutting route over quality and its obvious.

#4148 2 years ago
Quoted from jonesjb:

Ah yes, sorry I didn’t realize

That's just how bad the projector is, it's not even that it's washed out, people are even thinking it's not even powered on

#4152 2 years ago

I am willing to bet Stern is using either this projector module from Texas Instruments.

Retail price is $99, and if buying in bulk I am sure they are getting them for $30-35 each.

http://www.ti.com/tool/DLPDLCR2000EVM

med_dlpdlcr2000evm_dlp-lightcrafter-display-2000-board-image (resized).jpg
21
#4168 2 years ago
Quoted from OnTheSnap:

ProjectorGate is in full swing.
Well history show us they design these things to a $3000 BOM. So yah for what we pay, they should_ put in the $300 600 lumen Pico, but that's not the Stern machine.
No doubt this will be a great mod to do once we figure out what fits. Prob we can buy any_ pico, de-case it, and retrofit the machine.

Maybe this could be the first mod ? Put the white screens on blast! lol

StrangerThings-LE-Cabinet-LF-098uf3hjace (resized).jpg
#4180 2 years ago
Quoted from Rockytop:

Agreed. We'll have to wait and see it with our eyes.
Hiking is my favorite thing to do, and landscape photography is a passion of mine that grew out of that. I've got some of the best gear money can buy, but nothing beats the human eye for a live experience.
I'm sure Stern didn't break the bank of a projector, but I'm also sure they tested the crap of this, and have a package that will work. I'm getting an LE, so I'm biased in that hope though, but I just can't imagine they would put something out that was an epic fail. Maybe I give them too much credit, but I believe it's going to look great in homes.
I do hope it's something that we could mod in the future. I'd like to have the choice/option to upgrade to a better projector. Might be impossible thought if they custom rigged something.

Quite sad there's only two features over the Pro, yet there's a $2K difference at least, $3000ish if an LE- and one of those is the main feature - a projector - that cost maybe $30 tops, and people are already suggesting to upgrade the upgrade

Gotta laugh at this one.

#4197 2 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

See below...

This community saves Stern even more money by doing the work for them.

Exactly.

I can see the meeting now back when they were designing the pin

Designer: "Hey this $30 projector module we sourced for the Prem/LE models works decently, but there's another one for $56 that increases the brightness and lumens by 40%"

CFO: "Nah, just pull up Pinside right now. They'll just buy a $300 projector on Amazon, take it apart, and upgrade it if they have a problem. Plenty of people won't care if you read the comments. Why waste the money. Let's go with the $30 unit."

I'm going to tell you right now why I know this.

When I spoke to Gary Stern on the phone regarding my Ghostbusters playfield, I had mentioned some of the issues that were design flaws with the game in general and he said "this happens with all of our games, but pinball machines are kind of like my Harley's.. it's about customizing them, there's a huge aftermarket for pinball like Harley's"

So in a way Gary was correct. Why even bother, reading these comments here plenty of people are fine paying top dollar for mediocre shit then "fixing" it themselves lol. To each their own.

#4199 2 years ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

I canceled mine last week. Get a pro if the code gets good other than that enjoy the cratering.

I'm considering a Pro myself, initially I wanted the LE but no way I'd pay $9k for what I've seen.

Now the Pro version really seems like a great deal all around now.. so in a way, seeing how bad the projector implementation is just pushed me to get a Pro. The money I'll save from the difference I'll just apply to a JP Prem. So Stern still gets my money in the end LOL

#4201 2 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

It's only one variable and your photos prove nothing.
You won't still see shit in daylight if your projector is not brighter then the sun.
And your screen set up with the windows in the back would appear darker then it is due to the backlighting effect and camera exposure.
You know, like photographing someone with the sun behind him and suddenly hes all black.

You are 100% incorrect.

No matter what the exposure setting is on the camera, it won't hide the fact you're either seeing the White screen or the Projected image... Period.

If you turned the exposure down and snapped a picture of the projected surface on STh LE, you'll still see a white screen with a faint projected image.

Exposure on the camera doesnt add or subtract the white screen material.

16
#4206 2 years ago
Quoted from TheGunnett:

Deadflip just posted a picture of the game in a reduced lighting area[quoted image]

Look at the black speaker panels though.. the contrast, shadows and black level was modified in an app

Here, let's just make it better while we're at it lol

832af20aa1305f4b6da05944bdb0eff7c88c14ca (resized).jpeg832af20aa1305f4b6da05944bdb0eff7c88c14ca~2 (resized).jpeg
#4210 2 years ago

Screen clip, unmodified, from a video taken at CES. It's well lit but you can't see a damn thang. That's kind of crazy really.

For comparison reason, projector screens in an equally lit room.
Screenshot_20200107-194812_Chrome (resized).jpgprojection (resized).jpg

And let's not forget, straight from Stern's promo video in a totally *black* room

Screenshot_20191230-125421_YouTube (resized).jpg
#4212 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

How is that a comparison? A commercial projector?

That's not a commercial projector.

That's just a projector that has the correct lumens output and reflective projection material for the intended application. Which is the point, all Stern needed to do was get a projector with additional lumens, likely only a few more bucks. Which is the point here.

Clearly Stern didn't design this pin as a Home Use Only pin, can we agree on that? I'm sure they fully intended for it to be shown at CES under this kind of lighting.

Why do people make excuses for this? Why be complacent and just call it what it is.

#4218 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

You are comparing a projector in a huge conference room that potentially hundreds can view to an apron mounted projector that ONE person needs to view. Not a fair comparison kpg

It's absolutely a fair comparison. There are calculations that are made when designing a large scale conference room, home theater, and even a small screen application like this pinball machine.

You need X amount of lumens combine with X amount of screen gain to = a clear picture that saturates the screen material that is being projected upon.

Just like a movie theater needs a massive $100K projector with 15000 lumens, a really good home theater needs a $1800-3500 projector with 3000 lumens... This machine needed at least 700+ lumens at this throw range and ambient GI lighting to give a clear picture.

This projector looks to be around 200 lumens tops.

So, to your point, the equipment used in this machine to produce projected images is not properly implemented. It doesn't need a commercial projector, just one needed to saturate the white screen material at only a 2' throw distance.

#4220 2 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

No.
I'm 10000% right!!!
And you should at least refer to my full posting to prove me wrong.
You set up a projector with less lumens then the sun outside on a sunny day you wont see anything.
Your projector doesn't project "darkness", the darkest color is the spot on the screen where no light shines on.
But if the sun does that for you, you only have shades of white.
If you like to prove me wrong take that picture outside on a sunny day and not in front of some windows letting the screen to be appear black.

We can go on about this topic so I'll just agree with you for the sake of not wanting to get into a huge debate on Pinside lol. It's all good brotha !!

#4222 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

I agree it is not properly implemented for CES or a CNET live video shoot with lighting rigs. It was designed for game rooms.

Well we can go back and forth on this all night, but we both haven't seen it in a game room environment so I guess we both can't prove one thing or another to each other right?

I'm just going off what I'm seeing here, and it's in my opinion that even in a dark game room, the projected image just won't be saturated very well and there will be some disappointed buyers.

I hope I'm wrong and you're right though, in all honesty. Just no reason to start a battle here.

#4228 2 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

If the projector is your make or break decision on this game, you guys gotta look a lot more closer. Those plastic ramp returns are horrible for a $6k+ pin; i.e. bounce bounce dribble dribble. The rules look to be very uninspiring, and with Lonnie at the helm we kind of know how the outcome of this one will be. Artwork needs a touch of Franci. And the anus needs a serious makeover.
That all said, ill hold my final judgement when i play a prem of course...once it makes it to 1.00+ code.

I totally agree man. The worst part is its the single best theme (to me) that Stern has put out in so long that it even brought me back to Pinside lol

It could have been done soooo much better and I guess that's the part that bugs me the most about this one.

#4242 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballpal:

They should be using a material like this for the screen.

Maybe we could get a couple screen samples and glue them to the stranger things pins screen and see if it improves the picture.
Stern should have used a material like this to begin with.

Funny, came here to post almost this exact thing.

Stern should have used a grey screen vs white with high gain reflective material in it.

Would be way better in lit rooms and look amazing even with the current projector just using different material

Maybe this could be a decent mod, because I doubt Stern will switch it up at this point. I just don't get why they seem to be using a very low gain pure white screen.

Here's a pic of a white screen vs grey... I think we can all agree on how much of a difference it can make.

White on left grey on right
hqdefault (1) (resized).jpg

#4278 2 years ago

They even turned the lights down for this shot.

Screenshot_20200108-082310_Chrome (resized).jpg
#4301 2 years ago
Quoted from DeadFlip:

An actual stream of it is coming soon with more content for the projector. One of the reasons I’m not streaming it at CES

I wish Stern had let you stream the LE/Prem before it went to CES, would have cleared a lot up that's for sure.

Your stream should give the most accurate representation of how it will look I am hoping, so I am looking forward to that !

#4305 2 years ago
Quoted from JustLikeMe:

Ok, sounds good. I'm just hoping the projector isn't the ecto-goggles 2.0 with the limited animations.

Man.. the Ecto goggles were the biggest "premium feature" let down ever. What a waste.

13
#4326 2 years ago

Somewhere, Lonnie is on a beach sipping a Mai Tai reading Pinside relieved the current debate and discussion is about the projector, and not the code lol

#4344 2 years ago
Quoted from JustLikeMe:

I just saw a video on Facebook of someone playing the Premium - but not for long as Gary came over and stopped them from filming. Think this must be a first. Not sure if this will work, but here’s the link:
https://www.facebook.com/DarrenAtCES/videos/2255106654629700/UzpfSTUxMjcxOTQ0MjIxNDg5NDoxNTg5OTcxMjQxMTU2Mzcw/

I liked when Gary said "We want to show the game off professionally first" and the other guy replied "I thought you'd have done that already?"

LOL.. you'd think right? The marketing people kind of dropped the ball here. But it's all good. I have confidence the Dead Flip stream should answer a lot of questions and hopefully show that the projector is just fine.

#4352 2 years ago
Quoted from mzhulk:

I bet if the projector was looking awesome with a super bright picture Gary would not have a problem with people taking video. Seems like he is embarrassed knowing you can barely see it. Stern might have to break down and actually buy projectors that are brighter.

The easy route would be for Stern to simply change out that white screen material with a grey high-gain reflective screen material. It would literally solve the issue and make it much more visible in brighter rooms and even better when it's dark. Not sure why they went with the white screen with so much light pollution from the inserts and GI. The ramps especially could use them and even hide the dirt better than will accumulate on them from the balls.

#4371 2 years ago
Quoted from wrb1977:

@benheck sorry to say but you are 100% wrong and @kpg is right. I designed and installed custom home cinemas professionally using projectors for 7 years. He is not talking about retro-reflective material like on road signs or the glass beads on roadway markings...he is talking about a high-gain screen which in home cinema is what’s needed when there is a lot of ambient light. A high-gain screen improves perceived contrast ratio making the image brighter and pop, however, black levels suffer compared to a 1.0 gain screen. On-axis and off-axis viewing are both excellent with any front projector/screen combination. A high-gain material is exactly what would help the projector on STh when ambient light conditions are not ideal.

Thanks for this, you saved me time writing a response to Ben. Exactly what I meant. Stern could do a solid and just change the material out and it would be a cheap way to improve the contrast ratio without having to change out the projector units.

#4373 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Duly noted. So why didn't they use one? Is the cost difference that severe?

I would assume in this situation it isn't a cost issue of using the white screen vs high-gain grey screen.

To be honest, it could have just came down to oversight and not using the right material. Because from some of the pics I've seen the light output of the projector seems adequate but it's just shining on the wrong surface.

I'll post this pic again for reference, same projector and light output... Just white screen vs grey screen

hqdefault (1) (resized).jpg
#4377 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Is this other stuff noticeably more gray? So one can tell by looking at the machine if they're using it or not?

Yeah the screen material would be grey.

They are literally using the worst material for the application.. a matte white screen.

CG3D-vs-Matte-White-Tech-Tip (resized).pnggrey_vision_vs_cinema_white (resized).jpg
#4390 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You are F ing confusing the shit out of me KPG. I just have to skip over your projection posts. I'm not buying a projection TV, I'll go 4k for that.

Sorry brotha.. might be a bit confusing for you to understand because if I recall you are an attorney and not a tech guy haha

50
#4399 2 years ago

Gotta admit, Stern's marketing team is quite good! What a brilliant way to market their latest pinball machine on this billboard I came across on the freeway tonight.

STh.jpg
#4403 2 years ago
Quoted from BoJo:

That picture was taken at dusk and the billboard will look much better when it's completely dark out.

I'd have came back to take the pic when it was darker, but Gary Stern yelled at me and told me to stop taking pictures of it.

20
#4428 2 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

You know, folks, this really isn’t that complicated. Stern isn’t creating a cure for cancer, they’re building games in a wood box. They’re a manufacturer of entertainment and they have to sell to stay in business.
Are you really surprised that they wouldn’t want this particular game streamed in that environment? Come on... and who really ultimately cares???
Here’s a basic primer for all of you so you can stop your bitching and start caring about things that actual matter in this world:
(1) Stranger Things has a projector. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it.
(2) Stern can discuss or not discuss... show or not show... anything it wants when it comes to its products. That includes game materials, technologies, product defects... anything. If you don’t like it, don’t buy.
(3) 99.99% of people on this planet don’t give a flying F about Stranger Things pinball and the projector.
Scanning through some of the posts in this thread is borderline scary. I think quite a few of you need to get a grip on reality. None of this anger and heated discussion is worth it. It’s just so toxic. You’re talking about a pinball machine for crying out loud! Get over it

I like your response, I really do.

But, here you are, on a forum dedicated to discussing those games in a wooden box. Really, what is there to truly discuss about these things? With new games none of us really have had a chance to play unreleased machines so the majority of the discussion is speculation as buyers weigh the pros vs cons of what they are seeing prior to their purchase.

It's no different than a car forum discussing a model that has been announced, shown in promo videos, and no one has driven yet but finds an entertainment value and interest to discuss it though.

The tone of your message also seems hostile and upset. I mean, after all, we are discussing games in wooden boxes designed for entertainment and we come to pinside because its entertaining to discuss them. How about you look at the humor in some of the posts rather then come here to complain and get upset about it? Sit back, relax, and don't take it too serious.

After all, we're talking about pinball machines for crying out loud. Get over it.

10
#4431 2 years ago
Quoted from Ive:

True. You'll find they are on other forums giving a flying F about other stuff
But seeing that this *is* a pinball enthusiast's forum, full of members that do give a flying F about Stranger Things pinball and the projector....I'm not sure why you are using this as an argument

This.

If it's not people complaining about something, it's people complaining about people complaining. It's hilarious.

#4434 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

But but but but why don’t toasters have WiFi so we can make toast with other people at the same time!!!!!! Imagine making toast with your friends!!! Cuz breakfast should be a Fortnite!!!!

uh bruh LOL

https://uncrate.com/toasteroid-toaster/

edit: saw Levi beat me to another one lol

#4438 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Everything connects to your phone now. I saw a frickin' GRILL at Home Depot with app connectivity the other day.
I agree with Rarehero that online pin matches are stupid but there's a lot of stuff Wifi could accomplish, the best of which would be location games sending earnings reports to operators (should you even bother collecting the coins yet) and malfunction reports.

Oh yeah man, I have been using one for a few years now. I currently have a RecTec smoker that has an app and I can monitor internal temps with 2x probes and it will send me an alert anywhere I am when the temp is getting close to done. Then I turn the temp down or shut it off wherever I am at.. or in some cases, noticed the cook is taking longer than anticipated, I just turn the temp up right from my phone.

Technology is awesome. Then again, I am a career tech geek which is why I borderline obsess over geeky tech shit like pinball machines and projectors

#4463 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

ZERO. Maybe it cured more being in storage for 15 years?

Well, wood strengthens as it loses moisture content, and being stored in a box for all those years could have likely made the playfield harden.

#4478 2 years ago
Quoted from DeadFlip:

Here is some more unedited convention show floor video for ya per some requests.
From the bright convention floor.
The graphic that is being projected when you first hit start is dim (the wall with the letters). Literally all other footage from the projector is bright and sharp. ‍♂️

When are you planning on streaming it yourself in a much better (and darker) environment? A lot of us are looking forward to that. Hopefully by then there will be some more code additions as well.

11
#4481 2 years ago

Meanwhile... on some tropical beach island.... Lonnie is having a laugh

39807311_s.jpg
#4507 2 years ago
Quoted from tiesmasc:

Another option.... for those not wanting to cut a screen and adhesively apply it.... paint is available. Super expensive but I'm sure a modder might just take up the offering if they find it works...
amazon.com link »

This would be a better option, and only $48 for 158" of the material. Applying it would be the trick, but this is a 1.8 gain screen and would likely make the projected images much better.

https://amzn.to/39W0nEX

or even better, this stuff:

https://amzn.to/37K3rSO

#4509 2 years ago
Quoted from Rockytop:

You could start a mod business upgrading the projectors and screens

lol not my thing, but hoping someone from Stern is reading Pinside realizing just how much better the machine would look with the proper screen material.

If not, I see a mod company coming out with pre-cut high gain screen material to install.. but really, it should come with this stuff from the factory.

#4521 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Why is the 1.5 gain one better than the 1.8 gain one?

1.5-1.8 looks the same to me, I just couldn't find a roll of 1.8 on Amazon, but right now it appears Stern is just using matte white with no gain

#4525 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

The better screen material wants 1800-2000 lumens minimum. I'm really questioning if the Stern happy meal pico projector can meet that threshold.

Typically that material would be used for ceiling mounted projectors that have a throw distance of over 12' minimum, so a projector of 1800-2000 lumens would be needed based on that distance.

Since the projector is such a short throw at around 2' it should be perfect, but then again I have no idea what the spec of the projector is.

Good way to look at it is if you have a 700 lumens LED flashlight and shine it on a wall 12' away vs shining it on the wall 2' away, the huge difference in brightness there is. That's why I think the projectors are fine it's just an incorrect screen material choice.

The interesting thing about all this talk about grey screens is that Stern in their promo pics actually Photoshopped grey screens on the ramps for more contrast. The image they show on the main screen is also photoshopped and layered on it.

So the graphics guy literally is trying to tell Stern to use grey screen material LOL

Undoctored photos direct from Stern.. notice the ramps...

dims (resized).jpegyco0yvhmjtxyesi55blk (resized).jpg
18
#4552 2 years ago

Guys, I'm a Christian, believe in God and Jesus and go to church on Sundays.

This isn't the place for it. It's a forum for a pinball machine lol.

Some Christian's are just super sensitive on this topic, look, I get it. But there's a time and place and a thread about a Stranger Things pinball machine isn't it.

15
#4555 2 years ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

I take it this started it.

The way I read this is that many people use that as a saying without any negative intention. Same way people say "Jesus Christ!' when certain things happen. I give Levi a pass here.

I think many of us Christian's need to relax and stop being so sensitive. Makes us look bad.

#4557 2 years ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

I get ya. Enjoy your day.

Thanks man you as well and have an awesome weekend

#4572 2 years ago

Well, I think we can look at the recent 10-15 posts or so and come to a simple conclusion...

We've ran out of things to complain about the game at this point

#4575 2 years ago
Quoted from Tmezel:

Not complaining, but I am anxiously awaiting for the code to mature. I really want to like this game. The music is incredible so far.

What would be your favorite and least favorite things so far? I respect your opinion a lot man - so i'd love to hear your honest take on it so far.

#4616 2 years ago
Quoted from Tmezel:

Its fast, similar to AFM in terms of starting modes. I did grew tired of AFM after about a year though. The Demogordon shots are dangerous for SDTM so use ball save and other mutliballs modes to knock down. I like all the different modes from the movie, seem to be randomized for each side. (red or yellow inserts). The Demogordon is a makeable shot, play better. Inner loop modes are cool, more movie clips. Spell Demodog and I think there are 3 different modes for that. Lots of modes. The music is so cool plus subwoofer. The callouts to date are worse than the hillbilly from TWD. I was going to sell TWD just because of that until the custom sound updates came out. The other thing I have going on is JP is kicking my ass, so ST is much more of a shottable game for me right now.

Really cool and thanks for the time to post this.

Unfortunate about the callouts but I am hoping they add some more callouts since they did hire David Harbour to make custom ones. But the cool thing is that can be modified in Pinball browser so it's not a big deal.

I don't know if I will regret this or not, but F-it.. life is short and I am going to roll the dice on another Lonnie game. I am back in for my LE order on this one, and I will be the first to experiment with different projector screen material and post the results here. I might even fire up Pinball browser myself and do an alternate sound package like I did with TWD (I was inspired by cleland)

But at the end of the day I am setting my expectations that this may not be the best pin Stern has released, it may not be a bad ass loaded Keith Elwin pin, and will not have insane Lyman code.

But, the theme seems like fun and that's what this is all about right guys? Just playing a simple game.. flip the flippers and try to beat your previous score. That's why we are all here, because we all enjoy these grown up man-toys

#4657 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

In 1999, one could add an Ethernet card to a P2K game and gain the ability to telnet into the machine and do all sorts of things... activate or end modes, control flippers and other devices, check logs, tilt the machine, etc. Was possible to play the game remotely by triggering commands. The game also had a rudimentary web server that offered a cool high-score page to anyone who browsed it. This was 1999. Hopefully Stern/JJP's implementation today is just as useful and interesting.

Wow.

Now that is awesome !

But the question must be asked.. was anyone afraid their P2K games were going to brick because of a possible Y2K bug? Haha

16
#4841 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I found Billy to be the most annoying character in this show's history.
So he's a heavy metal burnout who drives a Camaro? Ok, we all knew guys like that.
But wait...he's also a big time "karate kid bad guy" jock who rules the basketball court and brutalizes dweebs with his athletic prowess?
Also found his teary death scene out of place...the guy was a huge abusive douche and we never saw an inkling of kindness or any sort of affection between Max and himself. Like, good riddance bro!
Seems like they wanted two wildly different characters but only had time for one.

His role was perfect in Season 3.

I think it was perfect, it showed his upbringing and how he became the person you just described. You saw when eleven got into his head what memories were there of his abusive parents and crazy things that happened in his life. You saw the moments when he was in the sauna and had a small window of clarity of what was happening he broke down and started crying before the Mind Flayer took over again.

I believe his character completely came together during those moments and it was perfect. You're supposed to just feel bad for the guy at the end.. a broken guy who really never had a chance to make amends to those he hurt along the way.. because deep down inside he was a broken child from a broken home.

Those who can relate understand and truly enjoyed his character for what it was in S3. Such an awesome show.

#5057 2 years ago
Quoted from Trindawg:

Man that’s awful. They’re sending me a new motor and another board just in case. Hopefully be here early next week.

I hate to say this, but this is all part of the hobby. I think each NIB Stern had some problems one way or the other. My NIB Metallica Prem was down for the first month I got it, the entire snake assembly broke amongst other things and it took a while to get the parts then get around to install them.

Even recently my Iron Maiden LE's ramp was stuck open and broken right after the first 5-10 plays and they had to send me an entire new assembly.. took a couple weeks.

My Ghostbusters playfield had to be completely replaced.

Its tough to build pinball machines and I get it, but apparently it's tough to fully check them out for issues before shipping as well.. it's just something you in a way have to accept and sign up for if buying a new machine from Stern. Because no amount of complaining has ever been able to fix it lol

18
#5109 2 years ago
Quoted from Trindawg:

Chuckwurt, they only sent me a replacement board, not the motors. Yet. The motors were out of stock At the time I called but they are getting a shipment in any day now. So I’m getting a second board along with a replacement motor. Then we’ll go from there. The first board I got he sent it overnight, which is not cheap. So I appreciated that. The tech support over there are super cool and go above and beyond to try and make things right. I think he should throw in some sweet stern swag on my next shipment of parts though. That would help to smooth things over some!!!

I'm going to be honest with you, but I read many of your posts and saw you were new to the hobby. I saw your excitement about buying a NIB game. I told myself this guy is gonna be pissed when he needs to lift the playfield and fix things. I just felt it but didn't want to post it.

Dude please don't get disparaged about this. I've been there. Unfortunately this is a normal thing with NIB pinball machines. Even my Jersey Jack machines I've bought.

There's a silver lining in this I promise.

You'll get very aquainted with working and repairing your own machines. Tinkering with shit. Trust me it's part of the hobby! I literally tell everyone who comes to my house and plays pinball and wants to buy one after that they better be ok with fixing things from time to time. Lifting the playfield at times and taking the glass off and making adjustments.

It's literally part of this. It's actually one of the reasons I enjoy pinball. There's a ton of moving parts. It's amazing just how reliable all this shit is really. Sure there's problems. But man please use this as a positive experience to learn how to work on them.

One thing I've found is Stern has ALWAYS pulled through and delivered me the parts needed to fix my machine. Once I've fixed things they truly are very reliable considering all the crap that makes these things work. I promise you, you'll get it fixed and you will enjoy the machine for months or years to come and you'll have gained knowledge of how to work on them and gain the confidence to work on them when needed.

Playing and tinkering and fixing is all part of this hobby. Enjoy it brother !

#5193 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I find it very very disturbing that this mech reminds people of a vagina.

Teeth (resized).jpgyco0yvhmjtxyesi55blk (resized).jpg
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#5280 2 years ago
Quoted from Trindawg:

I wouldn’t agree with u. Yes I’m new to the hobby. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t like tinkering with stuff. I have a SP machine that I’ve been doing stuff to here and there. So that’s kind of gotten me used to lifting playfield and doing stuff under the hood. No problem there. What I was upset about and surprised about was the fact that my particular machine was pretty much broke out of the box. That’s what I was pissed at. Now, hearing other people’s stories about their NIB machines being DOA, kind of opened my eyes on how the market is on these machines. It sounds like it’s just hit and miss. But. Whatever. I’m over that now. I’m having good customer service out of stern right now and they’re helping me out as much as they can.

*EDIT* before you decide to downvote my post, keep reading and you'll see this post eventually leads to helping Trindawg discover that in fact modifying his machine with a Pinball Life shaker actually caused his issue and after disconnecting it, resolved the problems with his game.

ORIGINAL POST:

Just out of curiosity, you mentioned everything was fine out of the box and was working great.

Then I remember you saying you were going to install some mods, one of them being a speaker light kit, correct? And then you said you were having some trouble with it. Assuming you don't have much experience working on pinball machines, what kind of problems did you come across?

Then, after that, a node board dies... Then your replacement node board dies.

I may be wrong but haven't node boards failed in the past from power related issues from mods?

I'm not pointing any fingers here, but the game worked out of the box so it likely passed all tests at Stern before shipping and here you are lifting the playfield tinkering and things break and are now upset at Stern.

I think there's more to this story..

Edit: looked on the other thread just to put all this together and whaddya know?

You happened to start getting all of these problems the same day you installed and said u had issues installing the lighting kit.. and no less then 6 posts later, you start complaining of problems including power issues.

Hmmm
Screenshot_20200120-180343_Chrome (resized).jpgScreenshot_20200120-180402_Chrome (resized).jpg

#5285 2 years ago
Quoted from DugFreez:

No node boards have failed due to my mod.
Not a good assumption to jump to and one that greatly upsets me. The light kit in question uses a separate 100 - 240V power supply that plugs into the games Bill Validator connection. It is not powered or connected to the games boards at all. You don't even lift the playfield to install it.
The"issue" he was having with the light kit had nothing to do with it's power or electronics. The shaker plugs into the games boards...if you want to throw blame at a mod throw it in that direction. Shaker motors have been know to blow node boards (though I don't think it was a cause either, but it would be a far more likely culprit than my light kit).
1000s of my light kits sold since 2012 (1000+ in SPIKE 2 games)....if they were causing issues, I'm sure something would have been reported by now.
Doug (SpeakerLightKits.com)

Hey Doug, never blamed your kit. I've bought quite a few from you and they've been great.

I was referring the the "operator error" that he had mentioned when installing them - that was my point- what is he referring to as "operator error"? We don't know what that is. Maybe it was from the shaker who knows?

All I was doing was pointing out the coincidence here, not necessarily defending Stern either.. my entire history for years has been calling out Stern lol.

Just let's think about it. New guy to pinball buys new machine. Guy says he plays it for hours no problem. Guy then installs shaker and light kit he said he had a problem installing, and then literally 6 posts down the thread he's having 48V power errors and issues with his game.

How about instead of jumping on the "it's Stern's fault" maybe we can help the guy out and see if what he did wrong that could be blowing the node boards.. one was replaced, and the replacement blows too. Coincidence? maybe.... Could be a short ? I'm not defending Stern here but let's put 2 and 2 together on this one.

#5289 2 years ago
Quoted from Trindawg:

The issue I was having had to to with the speaker panel and nothing to do with electronics. I misunderstood a step in the directions and it caused the speaker panel to not to close correctly. I emailed Doug and he stepped me through everything I did wrong. It was more of a fit issue then anything else. If you had investigated a little bit more, you would have read that tech support deduced that a bad motor was killing the board , so that’s why the replacement board failed again. Because of the motor. So stern is sending me out a replacement motor AND board to see if this fixes the problem. I wondered myself if the speaker mod could have been the culprit; but I also deduced that it
Couldn’t have been because like Doug said, it’s isolated and draws power from the bill validator. So I never mentioned it. And as far as the “48 volt power error “ thing I mentioned. That message shows up on every boot of this machine. I asked another owner about it and he said his machine says the same thing when it boots up.

Never heard of any machines saying they have a 48v power issue when booting it up, none of my machines have ever done that? Anyone else's machine having that problem??

Look I may be totally wrong, but sometimes tinkering with stuff can have unintended consequences. It's easy to jack things up because of all the little connectors and how sensitive they are power wise.

Are you using an after market shaker? If so what brand?

Either way I hope it gets fixed, but you shouldn't have a 48v error message. For all you know there is an underlying power problem that damaged the motor and that resulted in the damaged board. What did Stern say about that error?

#5293 2 years ago
Quoted from Trindawg:

It was a fair assessment though. And your right. Nothing started happening until I installed the shaker motor and then later, the speaker mod kit. Although like I said, I don’t think it’s the speaker kit. I’m totally comfortable tinkering with electronics. I used to build custom computers for a living. So that stuff doesn’t scare me. I bought my shaker motor from pinball life. However, I didn’t buy sterns shaker motor. I bought pinball life’s brand. So that may be an issue. I don’t know. I could disconnect it and see how my machine reacts. I didn’t tell you guys that the ramp has been working although not consistently. So. I don’t know what else to say. But please don’t peg me as and idiot that doesn’t know what I’m doing. You should have investigated a little further because you never mentioned the motor being a culprit.

Hey dude I may have came off wrong but I'm not trying to "out" you as someone said earlier. I'd rather try and help then call someone out.

Try disconnecting the shaker motor completely and see how your machine reacts and definitely talk to Stern about that 48v issue. That would suck to get a new motor and node board, just to see it get fried again because of another problem.

#5304 2 years ago
Quoted from Trindawg:

But your saying I should definitely let stern know about this though ? Cuz like I said earlier, that message has been popping up since day one. With NO mods installed. Period.

This really sounds like the problem you are having. As you said there was likely a pre-existing power issue, and by installing mods that demand more power from the power supply (especially the shaker, which uses high voltage I believe) could have lead to more problems such as the intermittent ramp problem. The ramp also uses high voltage to open and close it too.

I'm sure Stern will help you out and get you the right parts and just know there's a ton of experienced people here on Pinside willing to help

#5306 2 years ago
Quoted from Trindawg:

I’m wondering if I unplug the shaker motor if things will go back to normal as far as the ramp opening and closing as it’s supposed to.

Dude give it a shot! Let us know..

#5309 2 years ago
Quoted from Trindawg:

Yeah I was gonna go with a stern shaker so as not to void the warranty , but the dude at pinball life said that sterns shakers had some issues and that basically the pinball life ones were better. Idk. I feel like I got duped, but also, I really wasn’t impressed with the difference a shaker motor made. Can barely tell a difference.

Not going to get into a shaker debate but I bought one from Pinball Life once and it was weak AF. Put a genuine Stern one in and it was a lot better.

#5311 2 years ago
Quoted from Trindawg:

Yeah. I get that. U get what u pay for I guess. Pinball life brand does seem weak. But it could be like this especially if I have a bad power supply, as everyone so far is suggesting.

Very true.

Try putting it to stock 100% - even the speaker lights (not saying they are the issue but they do draw more power from stock) so that power draw is the same as when you first powered it on.

Then work on resolving the 48V error and going from there.

FYI, I'm an IT consultant of 20+ years and have my own consulting firm, I consult with IT departments of Fortunate 500 companies and also many small/medium businesses so I'm a tech guy by nature and love troubleshooting this kind of stuff.

Don't get frustrated about this I promise you'll have it up and running 100% again soon. Just need to troubleshoot it properly since the techs at Stern can only do so much remotely

10
#5350 2 years ago
Quoted from Trindawg:

Well. You just never know. It’s just odd that as soon as I added the shaker motor, that’s when my problems started with the ramp. And then I disconnect it totally from the system and it’s back working as normal??? That can’t be coincidence.

I'm glad you got it working !

And I'm glad I brought it up. Although a shit ton of people downvoted my post for even suggesting that a mod could have caused this because everyone is so hell bent on blaming Stern.

Either way, I got a ton of shit and downvotes but at the end of the day I'm glad something positive came out of it

30
#5404 2 years ago

This is the worst new Stern release thread in the history of Pinside.

#5418 2 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

LOL, how quickly you forget GB Kpg.

Oh I remember it ! That one had some entertainment value though, this one is just bad.

#5424 2 years ago
Quoted from jandrea95:

Its your damn fault! NO man should know that much about lumens! Prick!

Just sent the check off to pay for my LE - I know I'm gambling with this one, Lonnie on code for one (I promised myself I'd never buy another Lonnie game) the fact the projector will probably not blow me away, and the demogorgan being really the only cool toy on the entire playfield (and that's questionable too)

Well

I was going to list the good things here, but I can't think of any except it's a stranger things theme

Fuck

Well ! I'm crossing my fingers on this hahah ! I'm sure it will be fun, but Stern got me on the theme alone on this one. Well played Gary, well played.

One thing is for sure. I'll give my honest opinion on everything, good or bad, because I don't care if it hurts the value of a machine I own. I'm going to just call it as I see it, good and bad. And ill report everything here of course !

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#5435 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

This post really encapsulates the absolutely bizarre state of this hobby & its customers. A person who knows he’s probably going to be disappointed, yet makes a $9k purchase with relative dispassion.

Come on bro !!! Lol

It's not really hard to understand to be honest.

The machine is not actually "costing" me $9K. It's actual cost is what the difference will be between it's sale price. Let's say I sell it for $7800 in a few months or less. That's probably on the low end initially. The cost is really only $1100 to me since I'm getting it for $8900 delivered.

For $1100 smackaroos it's totally worth it for me to crack open a brand new machine, my family friends and myself having a good time and testing it out in my house to see if it's a keeper.

Worst case I'm not out much cash at all. I'm ok with that. And that's why I love this "bizarre" hobby because it's the only electronic toy I can get a huge % of my money back if I'm disappointed.

Cheap fun and dumbasses like me help keep Stern in business and the hobby climbing - so embrace don't hate brotha !!!

#5438 1 year ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Tell that to the Rob Zombie / Thunderbird buyers

Lol !

Well, Stern as a brand has its own market and values, it's a very liquid market and has a great company to support the products in case of issues. We know Stern isn't going out of business any time soon. Thanks to guys like me. Eh-hem.. Rarehero

#5500 1 year ago
Quoted from captainadam_21:

Losing $1100 is cheap fun?!

Lol.

When your other hobby costs you a shit ton more than that it's really not a big deal.

Check out my Instagram @xkpgx you'll see my other hobby haha.. pinball is cheap fun.

#5502 1 year ago
Quoted from J85M:

Your a multi-millionaire I can see why $1000 is cheap fun to you dude, my 3 year old son LOVED your drag videos and he was clapping watch your 600lt spit flames.

Hahah nice man !!! I love kids who are into cars. That was me when I was younger. I'm a grown kid myself so stuff like cars and pinball just do it for me

We all live short lives and it's all about having fun in the process !!

#5524 1 year ago
Quoted from pickleric:

Nice cars! Your tire habit probably costs more than your pinball habit!

LOL, definitely. Track days definitely cost a ton in tires and consumables. Thats the thing, I am so used to entertainment costing me a ton of money, its nice to have another hobby that really can provide years of fun with a pinball machine that you can recover so much $$ back from it. The resell value and depreciation curve is better than anything else out there.

#5552 1 year ago

I'm stoked Lyman rolled up in a Stranger Things thread !!!

Lyman, my friend, please give our boy Lonnie some tips for this game.. please !!!!

#5570 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

You answered your own question.
Theme is hot. It’s not the theme.
It’s a game with a giant wall with a sticker on it it, revealing a mutant artichoke that doesn’t do anything. From the guy that made the amazing MM castle & lots of other mechanically amazing games. Plus unfinished code.

Im dying over here... "mutant artichoke"

Thats hilarious dude

#5578 1 year ago
Quoted from kermit24:

I think it is a little premature to discount the projector. No one has played it with the latest code besides the one stream. More code is coming for it.

IMO it also seems like something you really need to see in person to appreciate. There's really nothing like it on any other machine. When I get my LE trust me I'll definitely speak my mind on how good/bad it really is.

#5584 1 year ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Yeah, and Pinside is rough. 5 posts ever and his thumbs ratio is already down to 97.2%. Taz am cry.

The best thing ever is Lyman has been registered for almost a decade on Pinside, and his only posts were on a Stranger Things thread. Maybe he's a fan of the show, or even better- is behind the scenes trying to take over the coding responsibilities from Lonnie? (one can only hope lol)

#5592 1 year ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

I personally hope Lyman is working with Borg on Turtles. Need to wash the terrible taste out of my mouth after the Dwight code disaster of Borg's Munsters.

Borg + Lyman is a pinball Dream Team to me.

MET & TWD are my two favorite pins of all time, I can only imagine how badass TMNT would be with that combo.

I think why some people say Lyman's games are "sad" when they are first released is because by the end, Lyman codes the f*ck out of the game and makes it amazing over time. So when you compare the end result with the initial release, obviously it will pale in comparison. I can see his frustration for sure. I can only give the man praise for his efforts in coding and we all know DAMN well he went above and beyond and didn't do only the minimum expected from Stern.. but he puts his blood, sweat, and tears into these things and by him coming on here and personally posting shows you just how invested he is into his work.

#5601 1 year ago
Quoted from Trindawg:

Looks more like a butt hole. Starfish.

Chocolate Starfish

31Wq+1vibdL (resized).jpg
#5628 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinball-Obsessed:

This one is ST related and straight from Stern... (kind of)
[quoted image]

hahahahaha

you win dude

12
#5641 1 year ago

True story and you guys are going to laugh

But after all these posts I can't un-see the demogorgan anymore. It truly does look fucking stupid. I can't stay on board with it lol. Unbelievable because I love this theme too.

There's another LE available from Trent now... Have at it.

Switched it to Jurassic Park LE. I'd rather have that bad ass dinosaur then this flared up vag. It just didn't age well with me.

#5652 1 year ago
Quoted from mzhulk:

If jurrasic park is so good how are there LE's still available.

There arent any.

My distro told me he "might" be getting one in last month and he finally got it. I think he took it on a trade or bought it, but I did pay a small premium over MSRP to get it.

#5655 1 year ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

OMFG, that is amazing.
Good decision though, JP is awesome.

Thanks dude I can't wait!

#5657 1 year ago
Quoted from dri:

Seriously though, some modder should take the vag monster and simply make it 10% bigger and every problem would be solved. Bigger glory hole and the pudendas would cover up the crevices where the ball get stuck.

For the kind of money these machines are, the demogorgan should have looked like this.. especially since its the only and main toy on the entire machine:

il_794xN.1543384764_ez35 (resized).jpgil_794xN.1543384882_iyza (resized).jpgil_794xN.1543384948_hyqj (resized).jpgil_794xN.1590844215_4t2u (resized).jpg

#5661 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Man GTFO KPG!! You cant just do that man WTF?? lol
Wait until I tell iceman about this!

HAHAHA

I know right... Iceman, sorry brotha...

#5662 1 year ago
Quoted from NintenBear:

but this to me is definitely a candidate for a HUO purchase after someone else dials it in, code matures and save yourself the depreciation off the bat.

That's my plan.

TMNT coming out will be my next purchase.

This one can simmer on the back burner for a while and i'll re-visit it in a few months.

#5667 1 year ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

You may be disappointed. I don't think the TMNT pin will be about them coming out.

post-14251-Eddie-Murphy-I-see-what-you-di-PAQX (resized).jpg
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