Quoted from Zablon:Really? What is Stern Premium now? Last one was 11k right? Do'nt see R&M going that high (because you still have to add + tax + shipping on a stern as well).
No taxes or shipping from my Distro
(Topic ID: 257038)
Linked Games
Monopoly
Stern, 2001-
Stranger Things (LE)
Stern, 2019
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Stranger Things (Premium)
Stern, 2019
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Stranger Things (Pro)
Stern, 2019
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Viper Night Drivin'
Sega, 1998
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Reserving judgement until I can see some Premium footage/gameplay. I already have an amazing fan pin.. SW Prem, so the projector utilization is really the make or break for me... Not really feeling this one yet and I love Stranger Things... Hope it shoots well and the code is solid - I'm just worried with so many inserts...
Quoted from Captchaos:Wondering what the projection screen material will look like, over time, after the ball rolls over it for a year or so.?
Not sure but I would guess the white is under the ramps?
Quoted from chuckwurt:For those that are disappointed so far. What were some of the things physically that you’d wish they had done?
Lower or upper playfield would’ve been bad for this imo
Magnets all over the main playfield is a bad idea too. See TWD. Just make things more frustrating than cool.
I’m not a very imaginative person, so I struggle with ideas in this regard.
Here's what I would have liked...(I'm still holding out my hopes for the Premium Stream)
Granted these are all physical world under glass wishes...I can see where Stern is going and why they did the layout like they did if their goal was to use a projector..it still doesn't alleviate my feeling of missed potential for physical items on the playfield. So hopefully with code, they can create a Star Wars esqu feel of immersion, but if it's just quick video clips without creating moments, I feel it may get repetitive, especially the demigorgon - that needs to be more climactic both in sound, video and buildup ...But my SW Prem has some defining shots that are really satisfying physically outside of the LED screen - Ala Death Star, Horseshoe, L & R orbits - I don't see that with this game from a first look. - although the balls to the wall lock has potential
...anyways, here's my list:
A tunnel system where the ball goes under the playfield (like the rot tunnels in the pumpkin patch) - maybe like the subway in Ghostbusters although various holes could open up (like irises) around the playfield and the ball could fall into them - acting as a ball lock - then various shots could recapture the balls
Large physical christmas bulbs around different shot lanes that would have to be hit in order to first communicate with Will
Physical demidog toys that could pop from different areas of the playfield, maybe even from below, and attack, not just static in the middle
Better use of GI to simulate upside down...I just see a 80's retro lightshow right now
An interactive physical D&D 20 sided die - could have tied into a D&D video mode
A large physical lab which could have been the centerpiece with diverters, ramps...and that could have flipped or spun around (ala Batman 66) in the table representing the upside down
An arcade or sign that could be shot at opening up an actual video game video mode
Eggo waffle inserts or pop bumpers
A unique shooter lane where the ball was introduced by magnets under the playfield which could have been like 11 controlling the ball instead of a physical plunger
Walkie Talkies as drop targets
A Complete blackout mode except for only a projected image showing up on a lane or area to represent 11 in the communication realm
Quoted from chuckwurt:So you wanted all this in the same standard sized cabinet? Not sure this is physically possible.
No, just a collection of some physical ideas, I thought your question was looking for those, not necessarily a complete design per se...
Doesn't matter at this point though..as it's all going to come down to code now. Still holding out hope but this went from a sure thing for me to a maybe based on what I've seen so far.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Oh okay gotcha. I think the tunnel system is an interesting idea. Definitely possible since we know STTNG has a major subway system in it. That would be an all or nothing feature though I would think.
At the end of the day stern will always have 2-3 items they put into the prem/LE that makes the game full featured. It’s up to the buyer to decide if that’s enough for them to pull the trigger. They will never have a game packed with stuff like JJP. I’m okay with that. Hard to make a good shooter with stuff everywhere. Always good to have options.
Yeah, they definitely come through on fun machines. I know Mike and Brian are smart guys and with a little polish this can really be a great pin. The bones are there. This is where getting the sound and lighting just right can really pay off! Fingers crossed and I can't wait to see the projector working
Quoted from Globalcop:Imagine if there were HD cameras under the playfield, tracking the ball as it traverses the subway, displaying the ball under the pf up onto the LCD screen. A user activated diverter could be switched with the player paying close attn to the ball under the table by watching the LCD.
I was thinking that very thing just now as well...what are the odds of that?!?
Chuck have you tried a different flipper rubber? Maybe a softer one like red or white to see if it backs off on the high shots a little?
2 weeks later
Quoted from Who-Dey:Well I think that the projector looks pretty dang good in the video. What can we complain about now?? Damn you Stern!!
It does look good, the upside down looks really cool... Can't wait to see more as the code develops
New to the hobby last year... I was at first taken a back as well when I had my first NIB experience and had some issues... But as time went on, I really came to enjoy the tinker, dial in, cleaning part of the hobby. Over time, I've found that with patience, research, thinking about things, there's been really nothing I haven't been able to fix or improve on my machines, even fabrication at times. Granted you don't want major issues to take the shine off the new in box experience, but it is physical, it is handmade, and it comes from an assembly line... There will be problems guaranteed..no matter how much QC is boosted... Even those who post.. "just arrived.. everything is perfect out of the box..." .. probably not, they just haven't had enough time to discover the nuance of their machine yet. I honestly don't go a week without lifting the field or pulling the glass.. Someday's I'm doing it 10 or more times dialing in and making adjustments... My cabinet sliders get a workout...Admittedly, I'm Type A and very OCd...However, if tinkering and fixing isn't up your alley, then buying machines may not be the best option for you.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Rockytop:I got my LE tonight. The box looked good.
I think it must have left the factory this way. Not sure with how it was packed that this could happen in shipping.
The metal bracket on the shooter assembly was broken in pieces, and it must have been pushed in and bent the auto plunger assembly as well.
The auto plunger assembly is bent up.
Does anyone know if the auto plunger assembly is a standard part on most Stern games? Thinking about swapping it out with another game I'm not playing as much until a replacement can come in.
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That looks like something was stacked on the box by the freight company and the shooter rod/assembly took all of the weight...I'd check the cabinet corners and seams for cracking too just to be sure. Did you get pics of the box before and after opening? I would get in touch with your distributor as soon as possible as insurance claims for shipping are very short timeframes
I think most of us envisioned something like this for the GI of the upside down... I was bummed when it wasn't included in the streams. I'm even more bummed at this money grab approach for a feature that should have been included from the start. To quote Wargames: "The only way to win this one is not to play!" I love Stern but this method of sales leaves a bad taste
Quoted from Aurium:Whats the difference from this kit vs someone buying Pinstadium lights to enhance their game? They are just as expensive? If you guys don't like it don't buy it, the game plays just the same without it.... I for one think it looks awesome and will be ordering one. Everyone needs to relax
The difference is it's a game atmospheric feature that was hidden and built in from the start... And a feature that should have been standard... It's not just a light like the pin stadiums, this is code interactive and specific to the Stranger Things' world unlike any other theme.. It's not about the money, it's about the tactic, principles, and the sales shenanigans. It should have been in the features matrix.
Quoted from Aurium:Exactly which make it even better... It should have been standard because you guys say so? I don't know I'm fine with it, don't like it don't buy it
No, because it's the start of what happened in video games...ie loot boxes etc.. This hurt companies like EA and Activision big time. I have no problem paying for features... Just don't include something then say surprise.. You want more, pay up... What if you bought a car and then your dealer emailed you and said.. Pay us extra, and we'll turn on your dashboard lights?...
Quoted from Aurium:not the same at all... the game works fine as it is, you want UV lights you need to add them. Its UV ink on the playfield. Whats the difference than leaving off side decal art, Toppers, etc etc We all pay for these things after the fact, just because they used UV inks on the playfield? I don't know I just don't get the big uproar
Because the UV ink makes this game, the upside down is stranger things... No other game out there compared to the atmospheric usage. I bought an interactive Shooter rod for my JP, why, cause I knew about it and it enhanced the game... They chose to take a different marketing approach here... I just don't want pinball to turn intoa DLC loot box
Quoted from Aurium:Its kinda the exact same thing, it enhances the game = worth it. Would it have been great for it to be included? Of course. This isn't really DLC content either, they thought ahead and used UV ink. If some modder came up with this after the fact all you guys would be praising it and shelling out your loot.
A modder can't install UV ink, this isn't a mod, it's a hidden feature... Big difference
Quoted from flynnibus:Amazing how so many people bought this game without even knowing it existed! I guess they were pretty fucking clairvoyant weren't they?
No.. they liked the theme and purchased regardless.. Just like I would be all in on a BTTF sight unseen...I like the theme, I love Stranger Things.. Did I buy one yet.. No, because it didn't fit the image of what I had in mind for atmosphere.. Does it look good now, absolutely, it looks like it should out from the day one stream. The code is maturing and I'm sure it's fun to shoot via the work of Eddy and Vinikour. What disappoints me is the marketing stage that's being set akin to loot crates and pay as you go Video game market strategy.
This UV actually makes me want to buy one... It's what I had hoped for the first I heard of a Stranger Things pin...I guess what is different here is it's not just code but a physical feature..So why wasn't this feature touted from the beginning.. The game would probably be sitting higher on the praise shelf as a result of early feature divulgence.
Quoted from flynnibus:Just hope that when stern does go digital... that they attach purchases to the machine... not the user. Imagine not being able to sell all the upgrades you bought for your games....
Really good point. No way will the Digital Rights Management travel with the game. The upgrades will definitely be tied to the user account. This will take a direction exactly like video games. Every publisher has their own content pusher app and tie their content directly to the user/subscription account. If I sell my computer/Xbox/Playstation on Ebay, my games and upgrades stay with me...they don't travel with the hardware. This will hurt resale, but Stern is not in the resale business.
Quoted from russdx:I wonder if we will start seeing dodgy roms that offer free upgrades etc...
If they are smart, they already are thinking about phasing out USB updates in the future, and updating will/should be tied solely to the user account via wifi. DRM is real and alive in the PC/gaming world and the direction Pinball is going with connectivity, to offer the change for pirated Rom's to leak doesn't help their bottom line. Games used to have 21 + codes to enter to access upgrade features and play the game, but there was a crack code that afternoon, when account subscription became a thing, the game was then married to the account owner basically eliminating rampant piracy. It still exists but is far less than back in the day. Stern has roots in the gaming industry, I can almost say without a doubt, they are on it..It's why we don't see it yet on the machines, it's not about the hardware...It's about the account subscription creation and content provision model.
Here's a thought. What if your shooter rod in the future was tied to a PCB board that had interactive game function that was unlocked per user account...such as opening a diverter that allowed the ball to travel only one way (and not the skill shot route) unless it was subscribed and activated.. It already exists in the JP amber rod mod, everything but the account and hardware activity...That rod is tied to CN15, it's just not connected to a paywall. Yet 
Interactive hardware may become a rampant thing. Side armor and legs that reacts to gameplay and modes...Stern could develop an army of plug n play parts if people are willing to pay for them...all behind a sole user software account that renders the device useless upon resale...Hmmm the $$$$ that has yet to be made...
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Does seem that with internet connectivity in Turtles that a subscription model is coming.
That is a definite pass as far as I am concerned.
4 Turtles, 1st one is free, pay per character the other 3. It's going to happen.
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:Omg. LAME if true.
Just speculation on my part but the stage is being set
Quoted from Potatoloco:This is business 101.
Stern hid this because they planned on cross-selling this feature from the beginning to make money. I've got nothing wrong with the practice of cross-selling itself, but there's no way they hid this because they thought it would create excitement after the fact. If they wanted to create excitement and do their fan base a solid, they would've installed these into the LE's unannounced and then offered it as a cross-sell for Pros and Premiums.
Instead, the vast majority of buyers and potential future NIB customers are left wondering if any game that is purchased in the future will be lacking items under the glass that directly have an impact on the experience itself with code and mech integration. Quite simply put, as a business they violated the trust of their consumers. If they're really wanting to build a lifestyle brand, in which a core foundation of that function is brand loyalty through consumer trust, they have made quite the error in judgment with how this product was rolled out.
Agreed, any future pins will have to be evaluated on a wait and see basis to determine what I'm really buying, which stinks because I have a game room just waiting to be filled up, plus I'm new to the hobby and bought 2 NIB premiums this year already. I don't like sales pitches, scams and surprises... I've walked out of many cash car deals and other major purchases over simply hundreds of dollars because sales principles started floating into the gray areas and trust was broken..My money is loyal if the brand is. Love Stern games but they need to walk this one back for the home user market.
Quoted from Aurium:blah blah blah.... so dramatic
Not at all, it's called being an educated rational consumer.
Quoted from Aurium:How's that SW working out for you?
Amazing! Play it every chance I get. Amazing game code and excellent build quality. Why?
Quoted from Aurium:Either is stern... The game plays exactly the same without it, its a light show that's coded in...
Its crazy that people are this upset about this. I'd hate to see when your gas or phone bill goes up
You obviously love the hobby and are passionate about it. So am I. I think we all want to see amazing things going forward. But I have to ask you, where is the line in the sand for you personally? How much is a line too far? Today it's a GI playfield that is more feature than addon..what is it tomorrow? Pay for code, mechs behind software coded paywalls? If I already owned the game, I would feel compelled to get the UV kit. But I'm on the fence. This just increases the overall cost off the game. So not just a $100 MSRP increase for the year but $380. For a feature that probably didn't bust the BOM and is an upcharge. Just give me the details upfront. Again, it's not the money, it's the way the 3 tiered rollout was presented. Too much cloak and dagger.
The gaming industry got burned for this already, namely EA and Activision...
On the gas/phone stuff...I call to complain and if no resolution is met, I ask to speak to the retention department and switch providers. Always works, then the following month I get a letter asking me to come back to my original quote. I don't get crazy on the phone...I'm polite and treat people with respect but I run my house like a business, that includes my recreational expenses.
Quoted from Sinistarrett:Less than 24 hours ago you said you would be “all in on a Back to the Future pinball sight unseen”
What changed your mind?
Nothing, I'd make an exception for that pin admittedly up front. Yes I'd be in line day one...but that's my dream theme end all be all (see my theater and truck below). I don't apply that mindset to the other themes. I love Stranger Things, like I've said, I love Stern games and the people I've met from there have all been great people. I just am a bottom line, give it all to me in the open, type (okay ya got me on BTTF )..I will probably get this title one day but I just can't understand the market strategy at all at the expense of PR relations for a somewhat throwaway financial gain.
1451974_10202772951038306_317568259_n (resized).jpg20200213_214649 (resized).jpgQuoted from Aurium:Your acting like all of the above has happened or is in the works? Where's the proof of any of the things your saying? You sure have allot of knowledge of what Stern plans to do in the future...... Yes I'm not a big DLC fan, but NOBODY is doing it yet... Until that happens just breath, I get it your not a fan how Stern released the news on the UV lighting. If anyone I'd say JJP would be the first for DLC, they are the ones pushing the tech the most....
I am just worried as watching what DLC and Digital Management Rights has done to the video game world. I don't want Pinball to crash as I'm just getting started in this hobby only the past year, and it already looks like there is a HomeUser market demand surpassing the Operator in which space and money can dictate a specific limit as to what the market can absorb. I hope you're right, but if Stern were planning a DLC everything future rollout, the way the UV went down could be an indicator. Give them a taste, then start with featured add-ons...There is an evil genius to it actually...and a confirmed psychology for that dopamine rush. How many of us could resist buying that kit if we own the game today? Not many homeusers I would think. I know I couldn't...It's awesome and actually what I thought the upside down would look like from day one.
Quoted from Aurium:Like I said allot of you guys are making some big speculations... I've been in this hobby for 8 years and have friends that were in it 8 years before me. I've only seen the market on the rise since being in the hobby with the resurgence of the barcade etc. Do I wish I could go back to the pricing I paid 8 years ago? Of course but its supply and demand, with the resurgence Stern is selling more than ever, we have 2 other companies now that weren't here 8 years ago. Things are great for pinball, whats going to kill it is when this barcade / hipster retro Fad isn't cool anymore not speculations of DLC content
Again, I hope it continues. I'm 47 / gen X and a lot of my friends are in the disposable income age of their lives also with money to light on fire...My daughter had to let me know the 80's were back again So I think it can survive a Barcade slideback of White Claw slurpers more so that upsetting the 35-55 year old crowd. Plus I think the Barcade is the demographic result of a generation coming into vogue again and pinball just happen to have it's place in those lives of the people now running the arcade vs pumping quarters into it...Every 30 years or so the cycle repeats, we become our parents, our kids become us...so on and so on...BTTF had it right
Quoted from flynnibus:For those of you parroting safety concerns about the UV lights and regulation and maybe why stern did what they did..please for the love of god stop.
Just because something is “UV” doesn’t make it harmful. Radiation waves are measured in wavelength. UV are the wavelengths just below visible light (400nm cutoff). The UV band is broken into three A,B,C with C being the shortest... and hence most harmful. Exposure is all about the wavelength and amount of energy you’re exposed to.. and it drops off exponentially with distance. A and B are the bands you get exposed to by the sun. What matters is the wavelength, power, distance, and duration of exposure.
Cheap UV LEDs are usually 405nm or 395nm... and they have a small slop band around what they emit. Visible violet light is down to 400nm... this is why we see these lights as bright purple lights. The lights produce a band around the specific wavelength they try to produce... so some higher, some lower. The slop ends up producing light above 400nm and that is what we see as purple light. In fact, the more purple we see the light as... that is less UV light actually being put out. At this 395nm band... they are just barely UV. Your UV flashlights etc are typically 395nm LEDs. All of this is UV-A band radiation. Its not the more harmful B or C type.
Yes, UV-A radiation can be harmful to your skin... but it is all about the exposure. Which is about power and distance. Tanning lamps work (and become harmful) because they use a few thousand watts of lamps at very short distances to give a high dose of UV-A in a short amount of time. LED strips are like 14w (power... not even what they can fully emit) for the whole strip. So we are talking orders of magnitude differences.
Remember the thing about distance as well? Thats why your UV light effectiveness drops off with distance. And we are not right on top of these things. Oh yeah, and time too. We are not baking ourselves in this.
The net of this is the radiation type seen here is the same type you get in normal outdoor exposure, but is in such small amounts it’s a not even a concern and why it’s not regulated.
We all have probably spent more time under a black light in college or as kids in arcades than we ever would get here. No one hides from a Tron cabinet... Nd those actually use deeper uv light!
Thanks for the info
Quoted from woody76:my premium is the same way.
Same here on the premium... I'm OCD about my pins, but it's weird, the dimples that are there, I just don't care...I don't see them unless I'm specifically looking for them... Would I love a playfield that didn't dimple at all? Sure, but it's not going to keep me from playing the crud out of them. None of us are getting out of here alive, why worry about things out of our control and waste time
So I played this LE on location in Raleigh at the Boxcar, about 20 games... It was on. 84 code..I know this cause the machine froze up and restarted on me one time... but man, talk about frustrating... I hit the glass more than the damn vibrating butthole. Some shots felt good, some just got lost in the playfield and trickled out like an old man with prostate trouble. I hit the demo mouth 1 time... I lost count of how many times I tried... The lock on the wall only would keep 1 ball.. everything else rejected... The targets were already getting dirty and starting to peel off if not completely off already...Overall, a very ..very disappointing experience. I guess at home, I could dial it in but this is definitely not a game for the route... Just too many intricacies that make it not fun at all if the slightest thing is out of wack... Don't get me started on the airballs... Every shot to the drop targets airballed.. the playfield looked like the moon... Also, the lights were pretty low in the barcade and the ramps were completely washed out, main screen was just okay...Shit..I wanted this to be good
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