(Topic ID: 257038)

Stern Stranger Things

By pinmister

2 years ago

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  • 7,151 posts
  • 646 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by Neonblack
  • Topic is favorited by 83 Pinsiders


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Topic poll

“Are you interested in a Stern Stranger Things pinball machine?”

  • Yes, I am interested if it plays well and has polished code 486 votes
  • No, I am not interested 439 votes
  • Maybe, not a huge fan of the franchise but maybe if it plays well 100 votes
  • I like pizza 202 votes

(1227 votes)

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Topic index (key posts)

13 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

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Post #972 Stranger things video Posted by halflip87 (2 years ago)

Post #975 Stranger Things screen shots Posted by Rascal_H (2 years ago)

Post #1751 Feature matrix from Stern. Posted by twenty84 (2 years ago)

Post #1774 Pro features video. Posted by proco (2 years ago)

Post #1775 Trailer with intro from Duffer Bros. Posted by johnnyutah (2 years ago)

Post #1793 First shipping confirmation photo. Posted by Tilt (2 years ago)

Post #1829 Pics of official Stern accessories. Posted by RebelGuitars (2 years ago)

Post #1835 Brian Eddie podcast link on game. Posted by C2CPinball (2 years ago)

Post #3236 Nice game review Posted by delt31 (2 years ago)

Post #3275 This Week In Pinball deep dive. Posted by pin2d (2 years ago)

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#792 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Seriously? It’s nothing like the ecto goggles. Haha

He's talking about expectations vs reality... not mechs being similar

#796 2 years ago

Do you all really think it's going to be anything more than this?

lightshow-christmas-light-projectors-115587-e1_1000 (resized).jpg

Or that you can get projection images focused at multiple different distances.. from the same source... in bright light conditions..

I'm thinking house lighting "projector" in black-out modes.. aka Star Trek but with a light stencil instead of the pen laser.

#803 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

No. And that’s going to be awesome.

You ever see one of those in room level lighting? Or played with the focus ring?

It's easy to ignore fuzzy edges when dealing with things 4' across from 20' away... expecting 1" lettering to be clear is a whole other ball of wax. And focusing at different distances is still a problem.

I'm thinking more 'snow effect' than 'changing art'

#814 2 years ago
Quoted from aingide:

Nope, it's changing art.

I know what the description is... my comment was more about 'net gain'.

If its anything more than a light stencil and effective at more than one canvas... I'll be impressed.

#1604 2 years ago
Quoted from sataneatscheese:

I have 2 major concern with this... with bulb life of the projector coming first. If you leave your pinball machine on all the time, like at an arcade, either that projector is on 100% of the time, eating the bulb, or the projector is off, which would leave a blank screen in the middle of the field. Replacement bulbs are not cheap... and if a bulb only lasts 2000 hours, that is a new bulb to buy every year if you have it on during opening hours. I would also be concerned with the bulb becoming dimmer over time. Admittedly, my knowledge of projector technology is a few years out of date, but there is a reason we all have LCD TVs in our living rooms instead of projectors.

Pico Projectors don't use bulbs. They use a big LED like you see in LED flashlights, etc. The stats say things like 20k hours.. but LEDs do not age like a bulb, they fade over time (All those people with the cheap generation of Comet LEDs can attest to). So this makes the device a consumable. Once the LED fades... the device is useless.

The challenge will be how the projector is mounted and how much space is available. These projectors come in all kinds of different sizes and being the cheap china stuff change all the time. Plus you need to match up the lens setup (throw distance) to something at least comparable.. so you get the canvas size you want and ability to focus at that distance.

It's funny how people discount this.. as if its like changing lights in a game... yet people lost their #$%@# when Stern required you to buy $300 node boards..

#1612 2 years ago
Quoted from 27dnast:

I am routinely disappointed with my location play experiences.... there’s really nothing better than getting a game on your home turf and experiencing it with out outside noise & distractions, and malfunctioning or dirty repair. It makes it all worth the investment.

Then scoot over to our VA locations where we maintain stuff great Been getting my fill of Wonka, Octo, JP, etc. I only buy a pin if it really grabs me.. even if I drop $20 playing I feel like 'damn.. thats alot'.. until I work out how many $20s are in $5k

#1837 2 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

Clear coat on LE is looking Shiiiiiiiiiiiny[quoted image]

Quoted from mrclean:

It's gotta hold up, you certainly don't want insert wear especially on this game.

Too bad even their prototype has insert edges transmitting through the clear (especially on the lower half of the PF)

Screen Shot 2019-12-23 at 12.20.00 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-12-23 at 12.20.37 PM.png

#1840 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Oh god - that last part is a little worriesome considering their tech is ala playstation 2.

Jurassic Park would like a word with you...

#1860 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

I love JP2 - their best but the video assets look PS2 on that as well.

Watch the pro video - you can see some of the custom animation in there -

#2053 2 years ago
Quoted from aingide:

Crazy, right?
AFM is only one of the best games of all time, so who wants something modeled after that? Idiots. And then they go and mix it together with a well-implemented, modern and beloved theme? What a bunch of morons!

The godfather is a great movie... it doesnt mean i want all movies to be 3hrs long, nor will making them 3hrs make them good.

Why should “more of the same” make it something you want to buy again if you already have the original?

#2069 2 years ago
Quoted from DS_Nadine:

Look at the video & pics again.
Then answer the question:
How to project images onto a wireform RETURN?
[quoted image]
And yes you could change in the middle of the ramp but... why?!

Same way they are doing it everywhere else... with a sign/surface hung on it.

Did you fail to notice the main projection surface is nothing but a big billboard hanging in open space?

#2232 2 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

I keep thinking in the back of my mind it feels like x-files.....

Its more like afm and guardians had a baby....

#2943 2 years ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Curious. LOTR had the same size hole. But the ramp aimed ball at the center. This ramp may be too wide or need guides If this is a real problem stern could resculpt a new monster?

would be simplier to just redesign the ramp.. maybe give it some guides.

#2945 2 years ago
Quoted from jimwe5t:

Don’t hate these old games. They are still fun! They only hold up because they have 25 years of time on their side. People enjoy looking back at their youth and their layback life as a youth, playing pinball in the arcade. We all think fondly of that time. But shallow games don’t hold up well in a HUO environment, because of shallowness and becoming boring is the point, unless there is a huge IP to back that game up.

The problem is you approach this as an 'either or' situation.. instead of reality which is

1) The different elements (theme/story, art, sound, play) all contribute to a game's desirability
2) How those elements will be prioritized will differ buyer to buyer

A great game WITH a desirable theme will be more desirable than a theme alone. But theme alone can also sell game even if the play is weak. This is not a 'must fit a formula' thing. Theme classically has always been a good sugar high. In the operator days it was used to attract players to a game. It was used to build confidence that operators should buy a title virtually sight unseen. Today, many home buyers buy based on theme because of whatever attachment they have.

The key is the attachment. Your simplified view fails to address that the 'attachment' to something isn't limited just to the idea of using an established IP. The attachment can be memories/nostalgia. It can be what the image projects (lifestyle brands, sports, etc). People are drawn to something they have an attachment to. Using an established property as the game's theme is just a subset of that 'attachment' phenomenon.

Plenty of people keep what we think would be crap games simply because FOR THEM the image of the game, or what the game projects is enough for them.

In the modern NIB market... theme is critical because it's a feature that spans multiple buyer types and the pure players are not the dominate part of the NIB market. The sad thing is theme will sell more games than gameplay at this point.. at least initially.

I think Dialed in is an extreme example simply because it was handled so poorly at launch. In today's NIB market, attachment to an existing IP/theme simply is a huge portion of people's buying decision. The wider/stronger the appeal.. the better for initial sales. And it's kinda stupid.. but that's what the people willing to speak with their wallets are doing.

Instead.. we could play a fun game of Congo.. but if that were launched side by side with the ultra simple ST fan game... today's buyers run to ST.

Dumb.. but it's their money...

#2946 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Don’t have a game here but curious if this might be a simple fix. The screen is a simple bowed metal shape is it possible some are simply bowed a bit to much? Seems like if its shooting high you would need to carefully bend the center bow up to reduce lift. Guessing but I would think they used half hard stainless which will take and hold a forced bend. I would say just a 1/4” or so less bow in that ramp would dial it into ball swallowing position.

If it were bowed significantly, the hinge points would likely be binding and causing problems...

#2962 2 years ago
Quoted from Yelobird:

Huh? It’s hinged from the bottom. Didn’t say to mess with the hinges. The door(ramp) is bowed which dictates the trajectory of the ball travel. Simply reduce the bow across the center. (Left to right)

It's a plate. If it were bent (or you tried to bend it) perpendicular to the hinges you'd foul the rotation in the hinges.

#3385 2 years ago

Those in the DMV area that want to try Stranger Things... its now on location at Ocelot Brewing in Sterling,VA

First in the area... come check it out and the rest of the lineup


#3430 2 years ago

We setup one yesterday. No problems making shots at all. Did have some oddities with minor ball hangs. One time the game didn't want to release from the hold behind the demo for some reason... eventually did on like 3 rd search. Had a typical hang up on the gate at top right corner.

Played really smooth right out of the box.

Insert edges are clearly seen through the clear. Started seeing some nice pox marks in the middle of the pf within 5 games. My guess is action off those drop targets are going to be hard on the pf

#3484 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Projection alive and well.
You have not given an intelligent case for paid pinball DLC. “cuz vidjo gaimes dood it, and I makes vidjo gaimes so mes smarts and youz stoopids” doesn’t make your case.
But yeah, we’re the idiots representing the anti-intellectual movement. OK.

And frankly you've made no argument except "it shouldn't happen" and insisting Pinball is different, but no reason why it would be different. Consumers don't want dlc because it's an avenue to extract more money from them... but they prove over and over they will keep paying.

If it's games, photo apps, puzzles, camera apps, the list goes on and on.

Recurring revenue is the model all development wants... its inevitable that hardware-only companies will dip their toes in as well.... as they already have in so many other industries. Hell look at slots... they are almost exclusively a lease model.

Stern's lack of online connectivity is a hurdle to providing good controls over piracy... that barrier will fall too.

In case you haven't noticed... one of the biggest arcade games of the decade... golden tee is heavily dunked in micro transactions, dlc, and online requirements

#3485 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

paid DLC is one of those “works in video games, doesn’t work in pinball” things people love talking about, like online competitive play.
As long as the pinball home buyer base is what it is - old and stubborn - this will never be a thing.
The natives are restless about a $700 toppers and their place in line on a spooky game. They’d riot at the mention of paid code.
I doubt it would be worth manufacturers’ trouble either. Add two seasons worth of code to stranger things so some home buyers bite with a few hundred bucks? Why waste time and effort on that. Better to just invest the time on a NEW game that the same home owners will buy anyway, along with ops as well.

Yet it's the same audience that spends how much on dolls, displays, and other gizmos to customize their games after they bought it.

You don't think they'd pay for actual game play additions?

#3487 2 years ago
Quoted from T3quila:

Can't you buy now even add ons for Tesla cars? That's more expensive than a pin.

Tesla license locks functionality for their cars that are paid to unlock.

#3499 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I think they would react violently to paying for code updates.
I think people who own the latest ghostbusters and are whining incessantly about where’s our code will riot if another month goes by without one, but you can buy new code for a 6 year old game.
I think resources will be better spent (ie more profitable) for Stern (let’s just say stern, who else has resources to do this) than on new code, which remains difficult and time consuming even though people here think it can be tossed off in a weekend.
Just a hunch. I don’t think it would work for anybody in pinball. Could be wrong. You can’t overlook how much people loathe and resent stern around here; yeah they’ll pay money for mods and dolls, but they’d prefer these come from anybody besides Stern. For some reason that’s more acceptable to people.

This is the same audience that in the last year has agreed to pay subscriptions to Stern, Spooky, and even podcasters for 'early access' to things as simple as news/teasers.

If Stern came around and said "here are three new modes and two new multiballs, and a wizard mode" for XYZ title... People would pay. How many? Well that's the magic in forecasting and predicting margins.. but to keep painting this picture of the 1990-2010spinball market is not really true anymore IMO. People are throwing money around like Mardi Gras beads. If it were for actual game EXPANSION? People would pay..

#3513 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Yes I have. I’ve repeated myself enough times. If you chose to ignore the very real & logical reasons why it will never happen, that’s on you and your selective reading.

If you mean repeating crap like your last list... yes, you haven’t made any real arguments

“ No one wants to pay for pinball code updates when the game already cost $6k-$15k. At that price, you’ve paid for all future support”
— this is an opinion where you are projecting your brief onto everyone without looking at the realities of the market. People paid full price for other things, and still buy upgrades. They still pay full price for their games, and still pay stern for cosmetic upgrades like art blades, armor, etc. this “they already paid and wont pay again” has been debunked by actual practice over and over again... both inside and outside of pinball.

“Jesus, they can barely finish games within 2-3 years of release”
— you’re comparing a mindset for SUPPORT to how they would address creating content to SELL. They are different things and you’d staff them differently when its a direct revenue generator. You’re look at an apple and projecting how the orange would taste.

“There’s no market logic in pinball that makes any sense to introduce paid upgrades.”
— except the market that exists today and is EXPLODING right now... where people are paying stern and every tom dick n harry for even cosmetic upgrades.. let alone functional, game play adding ones.

“They don’t have the resources”
— they didn’t have the resources to do high res art and video before either. And know what... it changed when they wanted it to! Again, don’t pigeon hole yourself because of how they are now verse where they could be if they wanted to be.

“The user base isn’t there to justify it”
— there is a question of attach rates and how much pricing needs to be to make it worth your while.. but the user base is there. As proven everyday as mod makers are falling outta trees left and right because the market IS there. Pinball people are paying for their games, their apps, their digital rentals, their streaming, their table packs, their mods... heck even podcasts and twitch streams. This idea of a coal->diamond tightass is not the center of the market anymore.

“The licenses will be expired by the time they could get around to it”
— the licenses agreements are whatever they chose to make them. How is pinball this magically industry that somehow Licensed constrained verse every other industry? Would it cost more? Maybe... but again, these are revenue generating projects... it’s a cost you account for.

You aren’t making sound arguments against it...

Personally I don’t see it on Stern’s near term roadmap not because it can’t be done, or because it wouldn’t work... but because Stern is too risk adverse and too set in their ways.

Literally... every new revenue stream or innovation Stern has gotten into in the last few years is something other people had already proven and stern was just catching up not to be a dinosaur. Merchandise, accessories, “fan clubs”, high def video, modular component architecture, off the shelf real time os, etc etc etc. stern still can get their online functionality to market while the rest of the arcade segment was doing it over a decade ago...

The only real risk they’ve taken is the repeated attempts at finding the pro-sumer pinball machine in ThePin.

DLC isn’t unachievable with pinball - Stern is just notbold enough to lead.

#3515 2 years ago
Quoted from snaroff:

If this were 2004, when Stern shipped complete code (e.g. LOTR, TSPP), then I could see paying for expansion packs.
Over the past decade, Stern decided to ship alpha/beta code coincident with the hardware release. KISS had horribly incomplete code for ~3 years! If Stern would've asked us to pay for the 3yr update, it would have been really cheesy. From a time perspective, they would have been justified, but the fact is the initial software was half-baked.

That is a perception topic and one you can manage with your product strategies. For instance, to start off... pick a title people feel as complete and good.. and add to that. So people see it as an “value add” and not just “stuff that was missing”. Selling optional upgrades is very much a fluid thing... companies dont always get it right. So they discount, use promos, bundle, make changes, etc to get things dialed in.

Nothing says you have to set out to do it for every title either...

#3542 2 years ago
Quoted from DakotaMike:

Man, no disrespect to those who are pushing for paid DLC for pinball, but that's literally one of the worst ideas I've heard in a looong time. If Stern released fully complete, deep, bug-free games at, or at least close-to, launch...then maybe.
But come-on...is there anyone here who really thinks Stern wouldn't abuse that system.

But that is an entirely different argument than what has been presented. The argument here has been it cant work for pinball... because it’s pinball! Pinball is expensive... people don’t pay for stuff after buying a full priced game... or stern can’t do it... blah blah blah.

But in that case... the best part about that scenario for customers is... stern would have already done the work. Meaning, if dlc doesn’t sell... it is the vendor, not the consumer, who is motivated to cave and discount, or do whatever to move the units. They already spent the cost to develop it... so they are motivated to recoup costs or something from the effort. And if their base game sucks... then the consumers will know that for the next time.

The big risk is when people buy before they try... and that same problem exists today... yet people keep doing it and look at others for the blame.

Quoted from DakotaMike:

The fact that Stern will go back and continue to polish and update games, for free, years after initial release, is a big plus!

The reality is this is the real reason most don’t want a micro-transaction or DLC model in the hobby... no one wants the free ride to end. But instead of just being honest... they try to construct some halfbrain excuses that just don’t actually stick.

Today we have product today that can operate in isolation, and can do so in perpetuity. It is something that allows us to keep 70yr old games alive and playing. That is an example of a perfectly legit concern about new features that may require online connectivity. But this is also another area where the hobby has stepped up and addressed this in arcades... and companies like IGT have done “home” versions that relax those requirements etc.

#3543 2 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

Love to have money to burn like that.

From guys that buy a toy that costs as much as a car for most people?? This is comical now

#3544 2 years ago
Quoted from Russell:

I’ve put quite a few games on STh. Maybe 50+. I think it’s a great game. My only concern is that random location players won’t be able to get a mode started, much less get a shot at the demogorgan. I think they’ll give it a try because of the theme, and then walk away in frustration.

Opening the demogorgan is trivial and can happen just from flailing. Low number of hits for first one. Modes are probably harder to figure out or get to consistently. The locks are easy to wualify and is pretty out in the open to see. They probably could have added something to draw more attention to the ramp to let them know to shoot there... presumably the projector version will address that some.

The game is simplier to figure out than JP was for rando players.

“Bash up the middle” will be easy to figure out.

I just wonder if they should put some really short balls saver option in for the center drops to help location/noob play. At least as an option for ops.

The sling drains are the toughest part... especially since several of the feeds go into the slings without some nudge assitance.

#3552 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

This is the most batshit sentence I’ve ever seen from someone in this hobby. Free ride?!?!?
THESE. GAMES. COST. $6000-$15,000.
These are the most expensive games on the planet. There’s no “free ride”.

These games are not the most expensive... they are CHEAP by arcade standards. They cost less up front and operate royalty/commission free.. unlike many other operator pieces these days.

Updates like AC/DC got years later... updates like the Ghostbusters one (vs just bug/balance fixes).. updates like the TWD one.. the GoT one.. Those were feature releases, not simple maintanence. They didn't have to do it.. but they did. We all benefit from it (and hopefully it paid off in customer sat to Stern as well). That's the free ride... getting new and enhanced functionality long after the game is 'done'. People don't want to see that converted to a pay model because they get it for free today.

I get it.. you can't separate your concerns about 'incomplete games' and the idea of future enhancements on a pay-for-play or recurring fee model. But your lack of objectivity does not define the market.

#3554 2 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Not to mention that distribution went to nothing, and they sell more games than ever, even in the face of blatant piracy. No, they are not hurting by any stretch of the imagination

Game development is riskier now more than ever. Top tier games take tens or even hundreds of millions to produce, sometimes years of time, and then take huge costs to operate and maintain. You do all that what if the game isn't a success? All while trying to compete with others willing to basically give their product away in attempts to seed and develop a microtransaction economy. It's a market people can't navigate without huge assets... so like the Movie industry, consolidation happened.

Quoted from PinMonk:

True, but you're not figuring in the HUGE savings on the manufacturer side when media cost for games went from $18 roms to $1 CDs to $0 downloads. The media costs, which were a huge part of SNES/Genesis fell precipitously. Of course, the console manufacturers sucked up some of that savings in more in royalties, but the overall costs to the publishers went down, and the order requirements fell, too, reducing upfront costs and risk.

Costs just shifted - they didn't go down. The complexity of projects increased, the time and resources to make them exploded, and their # of titles decreased. Sure people got away from paying Nintendo their blood money, but that was simple per unit costs on games that they could still afford to pump out many and hope to find a hit. That evolved to fewer, but bigger (and hence riskier) projects. And now instead of simple per unit royalty fees, you have to build an infrastructure to distribute your content or run it... or pay royalties to others to do it for you (apple, steam, EA, etc).

The elimination of media and ROM costs was most certainly significant at the time.. but in the bigger picture we are talking about it's just a bottom line cost that really isn't significant compared to what came after it.

#3560 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Not significant? Just rom cost to publishers in the SNES/Genesis days were around 50% of the wholesale cost publishers charged retailers AND there were huge upfront order requirements to even get to market. You couldn't just make what you wanted since the lead time was like 3-4 months to get more. You could pave the Golden Gate bridge with the unsold Bill Laimbeer Combat Basketball carts due to those giant initial order requirements and no demand at launch. Those costs dropped to less than 20% of wholesale price in the CD era. That's significant and gave publishers lots of running room until the 2000s when production costs became the big threat to profitability/viability.

so like I said... "but in the bigger picture we are talking about it's just a bottom line cost that really isn't significant compared to what came after it."

It was a huge cost item.. on a project that was far less costly to produce overall. Media was a big percentage of their cost due to the draconian ways Nintendo ran the model.. but in comparison to what came later to even get content created... it was a cost that was dwarfed by new costs and so never represented any big windfall for the publishers. It became 'save on X, but spend a more on Y..' so there were really no net savings and certainly in comparison of the long run. It was a nice oddity of the breakdown of the dominance Nintendo had on the market and what the upstarts like Sony did.

#3562 2 years ago
Quoted from dsmoke1986:

PCB's cost $18 to manufacture in bulk?? You sure about that?

In the cartridge era... after the Atari/Activision fall-out.. the cartridges were used as leverage by the platform companies to control publishing and royalties. Basically they forced companies to publish on carts provided by the platform company... hence ensuring their point of control and slice of the pie. See the 'Nintendo Seal of Quality'

#3632 2 years ago
Quoted from Iwasthebruce:

Yeah, that's the word I was looking for! But in this case, it doesnt appear to be caused by the ball, but maybe that's me? The dimples seem waaaay to small a diameter to have been caused by the ball, but who knows.
This was only the 2nd day this machine had been on site...still really disappointing one way or the other!

The effect was visible within 2hrs of play on our local one. It's definately dimples from balls.. presumably due to the drop targets and stationary targets around the shot entrances.

#3633 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Why does this nonsense refuse to die? Put away your magnifying glasses, and take out your dollar bills and flip.

Because on this title and example.. it was extreme compared to other recent titles. It was notable, even if it doesn't bother you.

#3807 2 years ago

It should be fun when the new sterns cant even last a day at the next pinball show without having to have the pf up to replace the coil stops... and now re gluing the up posts.

At least JP lasted a few days on location... STrangerThings isn’t lasting 2 days at the show without breakage.

The fact stern continues to use known defective parts should be a disgrace. Maybe everyone should save their broken coil stops, bring them to expo, and we make a pile right in front of gary at his talk.

#3848 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

RE-gluing? If only. They're not epoxied or anything from the factory. Nothing holding it into the base but pressure and a dimple. And I'm not even sure epoxy would hold long-term. It's just a bad parts choice and should have been the kind with the spring-loaded piece that goes through at the base to hold the plastic part on, but this part was probably .0137 cents cheaper per unit.

Roll pin is the word you're looking for

#3904 2 years ago
Quoted from vicjw66:

The main objective is to knock down the drops in front of the Demi-Gorgonzola.

not really... its not rewarding points or completion wise.. if that's what you focused on... the burden is on you

#4045 2 years ago

One week of play...C7B81182-03D3-4CB6-BA6C-B59860AF4E70.jpeg

#4098 2 years ago
Quoted from OnTheSnap:

For stranger things, there is a massive air ball problem caused by the wide ramp into the demogorgan. Balls are hitting the glass and plowing into the playfield all over the place.


The ball just gets a lot of air from stand-up targets being shot head on (fan layout) and the drop targets going head on. The ramp shots always end up in the monster area or behind it.

#4107 2 years ago
Quoted from kpg:

Maybe the same fix can be done for those that fixed the Ghostbuster's Scoleri brothers drop targets, using these springs...

No - different problems entirely. The ghostbuster issue was the drops bricking and not being responsive enough. The stranger things ones are fine in that regard. The issue is simply the ball hop you get from hitting drop targets dead on or the ball getting thrown by their reset.

#4108 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

The standups can likely be 90% fixed with the swinks target bracket that angles the target down a few degrees. Almost completely solved the massive problem on Ghostbusters with the 2x/3x standups.

Its not like the ball flies across the pf like it did on ghostbusters. It is not that visible a problem playing the game... but clearly the ball gets some action based on the resulting pf.

#4307 2 years ago
Quoted from DeadFlip:

“Have you heard of photoshop”
I’m still a novice to posting in here and knowing the personalities, but man some of the stuff people want to be conspiracies is hilarious.
Here’s a quick vid I recorded FROM the bright con floor just now. If you need me to record more from my phone and say your name or date or flash my Illuminati badge, let me know.

Is there anything besides on the drop target and billboard yet?

#4489 2 years ago


#4565 2 years ago
Quoted from Extraballz:

TZ was not counter to that goal. It sold well. Pinball was losing its customers to video games. That simple. Bad timing.

It wasn't just a shift from one to the other... routes were shrinking, the fixed location arcades were going away, etc. Fighting games, games like NBA jam, etc were booming, but within a shrinking footprint. TZ was peak of 'excess' and it's complexity and cost to operate turned away players and ops. Pinball had lost it's simplicity and 'walk up and play' appeal.. and it was largely a downhill roll from there.

Next Gen consoles hurt location play probably more than anything.

#4590 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinless:

My first attempt to play was a failure. The ball kept getting stuck by the demigorgan (?). Couple that with the cheap SDTM drains and it made for a disappointing experience.[quoted image]

should normally roll easily to the right there... that game needs some tweaking.

#4738 2 years ago

Op made our game shallower... demogorgon shot went from 'in your dreams' to very makable and shooting like you'd expect it. So experiment with shallow if you are having problems with the ball sailing high on the demogorgon shot.

#4805 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Basically the dead end kicker becomes a shot not worth hitting or even worth avoiding since it provides a lateral and unpredictable return.

Except it being the super jackpot and 2x scoring shot... yes totally worth avoiding... *rolleyes*

#4876 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

7% of the time in game play, that shot is worth shooting.

Like most big payoff shots - it's not going to be the shot you are expected to shoot the most often in the game...

But when it is ready - it's highly valuable. This is regular game convention...

Quoted from Whysnow:

When you do, it will oddly kick the ball up to a single drop target, or into nothing, or roll over the corner of the down ramp flap. It is a pretty odd kick out

It's weird... I don't disagree. But it's not worthless. On every example I've played (5 of them) they've all fed right to the drops or inner orbit without risk.

#4929 2 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Sadly I do not like the way this pin looks, it looks like it has a Pinball Bulbs kit on it from the factory, just way too much neon and color.

It works in person...

#4935 2 years ago
Quoted from Skyemont:

Good point. Still did not look smooth to be. Looks like it bounces off the orbit to the left several times before its comes down to the left slingshot area. Again it’s just what I’m seeing.

It's a controlled gate that feeds into the left orbit. The ball from the monster area or left orbit feeds to a holding spot with the gate, and the game releases it into the left orbit. In normal conditions that orbit feeds down to the left flipper.

Game setups can have the orbits feed 'dirty' from either left or right orbits.. but usually they feed to flippers.

#5022 2 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

This works for certain pins, Tron, T2, Demolition Man, TNA, it just doesn’t fit with Stranger Things. To me Stranger Things is a muted earth tone palette. The outdoors, kids on bikes, Friday 13th, scary fall trees. For me this art is a huge miss on this theme. The LCD is obnoxiously clown puked and those gradient stripped fonts what were they thinking.

That's not the art direction for the game. The art direction is more anchored on the 'upside down' world of dark, violets, cool colors. The video you see of the big monster in the sky is like the anchor for everything. It centers more around the night scenes... the demo dogs, the upside down, etc.

The game is not 'earthy' in anyway... and frankly I don't agree with your assessment of the show's look/feel either.

When everyone sees the game in person... the reaction to the look has been overall positive. I can't think of a single person I've come across that turned up their nose to it. Even the comments here about the translite, etc... no one says anything in person.

This is what happens when people fixate on things in isolation vs look at how the package works.

#5023 2 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

finally, another thing that really stuck out was fit and finish. there wasn't any gap between the left panel and the center panel (which lowers to reveal the demigorgon), however there was about a 3/32" gap between the center and the right panel. that really cheapened it for me given the cost for these machines.

I find this to be a real nit pick. If you want to pick on it.. you should notice the panels aren't always flat to each other in most games. You don't want the gap too close.. the ramp binds and the the panels need to be bent out of the way. One could say 'why didn't they add flanges so the ramp overlaps the panels' but even still I think it is people overthinking it.

"as a few others have pointed out, there are a lot of shots on recent stern machines that come down and hit the top of the slings, rather than roll directly to your flippers which result in ricocheting into the out lanes a majority of the time."

Their game wasn't setup well. Normally the orbits feed the flippers. The stand-up target on the right side below the shooter lane often catches the ball, but a slight nudge takes care of that. I've seen examples where the switch is in the way, and some where it's not.

The worst feed is when the ball comes on the left orbit from the gate and bounces off the side rail enough to miss the flipper and drain.

#5025 2 years ago

I'm still trying to figure out the magnet lock.

I'm wondering if it's a permanent magnet and not an electro-magnet. They could have a magnet contacting the pickup point... and maybe use a relay to tilt the magnet away and break the physical contact, thus quickly and dramatically dropping the magnet's holding strength. But photos show there is no metal exposed at the contact point... so that 'make/break' contact isn't as extreme as I postulated.

For those talking about the rejects... remember there is a different divertor on the ramp for this lock. Looks like a little jump ramp pops up to direct the ball to the magnet spot.


#5026 2 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Obviously the game is not earthy, I feel the show is and wish the pin used a similar pallete as the show. It's just my opinion, how can people argue with how something artistic looks and feels to another person. If you love it all the power to you. To me the colour pallete of the pin is a massive miss. Where are talking about the art style obviously different people are going to have different views and opinions. My interpretation is this pin looks too over the top and clown puked, if you love that style this pin is probably great for you.

The point you keep glossing over... have you actually seen it in person yet? So you can actually see the light and colors in the open environment instead of just on the screen?

You keep saying they 'missed' and what I'm saying is... There was more than one choice. And the choice they made does fit the source material.

#5030 2 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

I'm talking about the color palette do you know what that is, I don't need to see it in person to realize it does not use the palette I remember from the show. When I think of the show I think of earthy fall outdoor, sunsets and forests, darkness and I personally would have prefered a pin in that pallete.

The point is the saturation and contrast does not come across well in the photos due to the extremes the purples tend to look on screen. But if your beef is with the reds, blues, and purples... I guess take it up with Netflix and the Show's creators? Because it fits with the images THEY used to promote the show..

poster2 (resized).jpgposter3 (resized).jpgposter (resized).jpghorror (resized).jpg

#5042 2 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

I didn't try to dig too far into the code, but it seemed OK. Upside Down scoring is pretty high but I figure that's more of not yet knowing how to exploit the regular modes for maximum profit.

Yup.. upside down for 20-30mil is good cheap points in a low scoring game.. but doesn't pull weight in a good scoring 100-500mil point game.

Right now many modes start off super cheap.. 250k per shot... while other modes can quickly get into 1+mil per shot. The biggest bang seems to be a long playing telekenesis multiball as your points from the MB really boost your bonus. I expect that will change.

The center shot seems slope sensitive... I think people will find dialed in games playing fine, and the center impossible on games that not setup diligently. Points aren't super valuable there on the center anyway (yet).

#5204 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

The demogorgan hole looks barely wider than the ball. Reminds me of a rigged carnival game
The hole should be be at least 1.5 balls wide and further back so the "mouth flaps" can guide it in. Said mouth flaps should also be slightly more closed which would give a better sloped edge leading to the hole.
I haven't played one yet, need to go try Hilton's I guess.

It's not really the side to side that seems to be the problem.. it's up and down which is why setup seems to be the variable in the viability of the shot.

#5477 1 year ago

The 48V notice on the display for stranger things is normal right now - all the games do it. JP2 does not.. something in this game's code so far.

For the guy with the broken ramp... make sure it's not just binding. We've seen that too where the motor runs, but it slips due to the ramp binding with the side walls.

And I've looked through the ROMs... I sure hope there is a ton of new voice over work coming.. because there isn't anything great waiting in the rom to be used..

#5479 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I thought someone mentioned at least 15-20 callouts from all the characters no?

There are lots of callouts in there... but they are bland, boring, and frankly suck. Just things like "super pop bumpers"... very dry stuff that isn't really creative writing at all.

There are more show clips of audio.. but in terms of David H callouts... there aren't any hidden gems in there waiting to come out. They need more than what is in shipping code...

#5484 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Not talking about the custom ones. The ones from characters from the show. Heard there are approximately 15-20 for all the main characters.

and they aren't that interesting or fun. They are literally just the clips to go along with the videos for the most part. And there aren't that many unless you count every video scene too.

If you are into interactive DVD pinball - yes, there is a lot of audio in the game for you. If you are looking for show audio tied to pinball... or new writing. Almost zero... except the 'jackpot' 'you lit double scoring' etc droning stuff.

#5485 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The entire vibe for Stranger Things seems to be dark which makes me wonder if the way callouts were recorded is intentional. There's very little sense of comedy currently being conveyed in the game that the show regularly exhibits so well. Hell, as soon as you start the game it has a dark vibe and the Christmas light animation is already being shown. There's no build up or setup to all hell breaking loose. I think that approach is what partially hurt BKSOR as the game immediately goes into 200% heavy metal mode as soon as it starts versus building up to it.

I sum it up as 'flat'. Little inflexion, little emotion to convey things like excitement, movement, speed, etc.

I can only hope there is a ton more to come.. because what is there is.. bleh

#5493 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

What else could they have besides what the actors say in the show? They only had custom callouts from one character. But I agree his stuff sounds like he was really bored when recording the callouts. Haha

I'm not the one who brought up the other characters as should be there or not.. you brought up their content :p AFAIK none of that stuff is used outside the video clips. But there may be some examples.. none of it really is direct pinball stuff.

Really.. the 'okayyy' quick drain clip is probably the most creative in the entire game. Followed only by the 'easy there..' tilt callout.

The irony is I originally called the game a mashup of AFM and GOTG... and going through the game code, wouldn't you know it.. there is lots of leftover GOTG video/graphics in there! No lie...

#5561 1 year ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

A customer at my location yesterday told me my game wasn't on the latest code because on the latest code the left sling is disabled momentarily on a shot that doesn't make it around the left orbit and comes back down that side so the sling doesn't send it out of control

Did he look like this guy?

giphy (8).gif

#5588 1 year ago
Quoted from Diospinball:

My point is. This projector. If its anything like the bulbs at my school district. Should be rated for 3k-7k hours. There are lemons that of course go bad around the 400-600 hour mark. And still some that only last about 1.5k-3k... It happens, but my district has over 1,800 projectors. So I see a lot of variation that can happen in the lifespans.

These pico projectors are not bulbs.. they use LEDs. Like a LED flashlight.. which do dim with use. But not bulbs like your traditional LCD projector

#5613 1 year ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

Dim over time (LED) or burn out (halogen), the effect is the same - they will become unusable and need replacement that may or not be available at a reasonable cost at some point a decade or decades in the future. Or, they could be replacable with a much better tech later. We just don't know.

Sure it's the same... if you ignore the two orders of magnitude difference in life expectancy.

Yes it's effectively a consumable... but that's captain obvious territory. The difference is people Here won't be freaking out over needing to keep spare bulbs on hand or shaking breaking the bulb

#5640 1 year ago
Quoted from Diospinball:

Yeah, but I've had projectors fry for all kinds of reasons. And these are mounted in a ceiling. Imagine them getting shake rattled and rolled all the time. Turned off and on, off and on. Day after day.
Do you want a friend to do a death save on your Prem or LE stranger things?
No friend of mine would do such a thing. But, still pinball is a violent game. Machines get shook!'
And also I want to know the heat consumption of these things. And also the venting. Because most projectors generate a LOT OF HEAT! Trust me. And also you need to frequently change their filters. Again. I don't know these models. Just asking questions and I would be interested in knowing more about them. This fascinates me.

They generate a lot of heat because of the HOT BULB... which again... do not exist here.

#5644 1 year ago
Quoted from Lounge:

LEDs get quite hot.

Hot? yes for high power ones. For the types in question here? not hot enough that they always require active cooling or they self destruct in minutes like a projection bulb? No

Fragile to any shock due to the hot filament like a projection bulb? No

Usually a heat sink design is enough. These are passively cooled devices. Think LED flashlights...

#5669 1 year ago
Quoted from mzhulk:

If jurrasic park is so good how are there LE's still available.

Because the vendors have milked the cow dry... higher prices, less differentiation, less reason to have an LE.

Everyone bitched about 'not getting the full game' when there were significant differences.. well now they flatten the model deltas and there is little reason besides image for an LE.

#5700 1 year ago
Quoted from kpg:

LE buyer over here
My decision to buy LE's really comes down to these things- some people may not think its worth it, some people do (and that's why they buy them) but here were my justifications, which are simply my personal reasons and opinions as to why the LE price is worth it:
1) Invisiglass/HD Glass. I simply do not like machines with regular glass. To me, this is the best improvement/mod a pinball machine can have. You get a better view of all that expensive shit you just bought.
2) Shaker. Cheap I know, but its factory installed and one last thing I need to mess with (time = money)
3) Upgraded speakers and speaker panel. There's a big audio quality difference to me, and I don't need to buy and mess with the machine to upgrade the speakers.
4) The powdercoated armor. I like that powdercoated smooth lockdown bar instead of the black textured normal ones. I just think it feels higher quality, and it just looks better - including the rest of the metal on the machine
5) Limited quantity. Sure its not really all that limited but I just like the fact its a little more rare and special. Not a huge deciding factor.
6) Art side blades. I love those. And as I learned before, they are a pain in the ass to install correctly! The time and frustration saved is cool with me.
That's all I can think of, but those main reasons definitely justify (to me) the additional cost of an LE.

If you lived near me I'd just let you pay me $300 and I'd do the work and you could save a thousand bucks

#5722 1 year ago
Quoted from twenty84:

Overall I get the impressions that these videos are about him much more than about the game.

You cracked the code of 99% of YT

2 weeks later
#6196 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

Yep, the only way to stop this trend is to not buy. It was clearly planned, and purposely left out - and only (as far as I'm aware) brought to attention after people had already bought it. Now, if it had been a code change only, with no additional purchase required...that would be different. It should have been included on the high end models.

Where's the topper that you think should have been included?

Where's the shooter rod... the floor mats... the whatever else they will come up with.

It's a add-on Accessory... something Stern has been doing for a long time now.

#6201 1 year ago
Quoted from anathematize:

And this is the first salvo across the bow in pinball.

First? Where have you been? Stern has been selling Accessories for their games since Ghostbusters, TWD, etc.

#6207 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

And here come the apologists.

No, the one being objective.

I don't think they should be doing it... but I'm not going to rewrite history or reality to try to justify my stance.

Truth is Stern has been selling accessories or keeping things out of games to sell as add-ons for years. Ghostbusters side rails anyone? Toppers for games with plugs built-in and ready for them?

This is not new. People are wound up that it was something planned and released later. That's not new... I guess people are just oblivious?

#6209 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

This was built into the game from the beginning and left off.

Yes, just like the ghostbusters siderails... just like the toppers for years now...

You don't think Stern has been analyzing what should be an accessory and what should be built into the base product since they got into the accessory game?


#6212 1 year ago
Quoted from kpg:

Problem is, where does it stop though? I get bling and accessories, and things to change how the machine looks.. like some people do putting dolls and shit on the playfield.

It's not really different from buying a LE because you wanted the powder coat vs hammered finish, etc. It's just another form of packaging and go to market.

Apparently some people have made up this false expectation that an LE was an 'all inclusive' offer now... all while Stern has been selling them add-ons for years.. including for LEs.

Quoted from kpg:

But this is something clearly that should have been included with the Prem/LE..

Based on what? Couldn't we make that argument for a ton of 'obvious' mods out there in the market?

Quoted from kpg:

Gary told me once he looks at pinball machine modders like guys who have Harleys and customize them. But dude... this is like Harley having a headlight and you having to pay $279 to make it turn on

Obviously many people thought this was something 'built in' and being asked to pay to turn it on. It's not.. it's a bolt on kit that takes advantage of what is already in the PF art.

#6213 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

I truly understand what you are saying, but this really does feel like a different beast.

The only difference is that it leverages something that was already in the game (the PF art).

You could make the argument that games that were pre-wired, pre-cut, etc for other accessories are the same.

Truth is.. it's an emotional response (not a rational one) to people seeing Stern monetize another optional feature instead of rolling it into the existing price.

It's the surprise that people are acting out on.. compounded by the idea that it's 'enabling' something already there... not the rational facts in front of them.

#6217 1 year ago
Quoted from Durzel:

It IS manifestly different than a regular accessory though.
Before you buy an LE, Premium or Pro you can look at a feature matrix to work out what you’re getting and what you’re missing for your money. If you want powdered rails - there it is on the list, LE/Prem only, etc.
If this was an all in one kit that ADDED UV to various parts of the playfield you could argue that it’s purely a personal choice, like an addon “skin” for a character in a game.
The fact is, for the playfield to be UV reactive means that they knew they were going to be releasing this kit for some time, specifically held it back from the LE (at least) and worst of all didn’t tell anyone that it was coming - and therefore stopped people being able to make an informed purchase.
As it stands it’s a pretty major playfield feature, and essentially creates an LE+ spec.
How you can equate that to an accessory I do not know, unless you’re being deliberately obtuse, or an apologist, no offence.

Your arguments do not hold up.

They know what features will be part of the game and which will be held back as accessories ahead of time. This is nothing new
They often include hardware and design elements in the base game to support accessories. This is nothing new.

Neither of those things are necessarily disclosed or advertised to buyers when they rush to buy on day one. This is nothing new.

The idea that it leverages existing art is not some magical breakthrough that changes the whole goto market. The kit adds and changes materially significant parts of the game.

People are just butthurt they think they should have gotten this feature for free -- not that Stern has changed how they do things or how things are sold.

People just live in their happy little bubbles I guess...

#6239 1 year ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

The reason this is different to me is that it kinda makes the "upside down" what it should have been from the factory. I get that it's an add on, so no big emotional reaction from me. However, this seems like a gameplay difference and not just a bling thing.

My first reaction to seeing it was... I was kinda shocked no one had suggested doing it by now! Since UV is common in pinstadiums, etc.. It was one of those 'so obvious, shocked we missed it' kind of moments.

#6241 1 year ago
Quoted from Durzel:

Are you seriously comparing this to an accessory plug for an as yet unknown add on in the future?

Unknown to who? You seem to think this is some new conspiracy where STERN KNEW!!!! Uhh.. they always know.

Quoted from Durzel:

If Stern released a motorised demo down the line, and wanted to charge for it, more power to them.
UV ink does nothing without blacklight, so either you’re suggesting they added an invisible playfield feature in the new world order of them cutting BOM costs everywhere else, or - more believably - they designed and produced the PF knowing they were going to release an addon *to make it work* and didn’t tell LE customers they were going to do it.

That's exactly what they did... and HAVE BEEN DOING FOR YEARS. Just because you were oblivious to it doesn't make it not true. Reviewing features during design and deciding what things should be in, should be accessories, or should be dropped. Putting ink in the art is no different from putting brackets, wiring, or software into games for accessories.

Pssst... they knew they were going to make a topper too... but THEY DIDN'T TELL YOU!

Quoted from Durzel:

It’s not a plug for a to be released topper or something, it’s a feature built into the playfield and specifically held back from at least the LE machine, to offer it as a DLC afterwards.

It's not DLC. It's an accessory kit that includes an apron, lights, plastics, wiring and is supported by the game software.

These arguments do not hold up to any logical challenge. You could be crying bloody murder about Stern holding back on shaker motors, toppers, whatever

#6243 1 year ago
Quoted from FYMF:

Shaker motors are listed as options when purchasing a pinball machine.

This was not listed

Neither was the Black Knight Topper... Nor the SW Topper... and the list goes on and on and on

#6244 1 year ago

I think the take-away Stern should learn from this is... their marketing this as a 'secret feature' backfired. Instead of revealing a new potential... they caused their buyers to feel deceived.

#6249 1 year ago
Quoted from JustEverett:

You keep comparing it to toppers, but this is built right into the pf. It was designed to be seen, and now owners have to pay an additional amount to "unlock" this secret feature. It's not the same as an addon topper or mod.

So being on the PF is some magical difference now? The complaints are identical... what the feature *is* really doesn't change the argument.

They planned this - Yes... they always do
They didn't tell us - Yes... as frequently done, product launches come out in waves
They put stuff in and hid it - Yes, they do this all the time.. and why owners can plug that shaker, topper, 3rd party mod, etc right in..
They are charging for what *I* think should have been included - Uhh.. welcome to 2014 onward

#6255 1 year ago
Quoted from FYMF:

So why condone this as a buyer?

I'm not - I'm stating the facts. Irrational flailing is not a convincing tactic. When people make irrational arguments and use selective memory to support their POV.. its just a floating opinion with nothing to support it but their personal belief. Combating that is not supporting what Stern has done.. it's called smacking someone back to reality and expecting them to work from the truth, not their irrational tantrum.

Quoted from FYMF:

On the contrary it encourages the behavior. IMO it not only encourages the behavior but it also stifles the deserved rebellion of the Stern army and other pinball enthusiast.
As someone new to pinball I do not want to see the industry go in this direction so I am 100% against accepting or remaining silent about issues I consider shady and at the cost of an extremely loyal consumer industry.

Well then you should join the team that stands up about buying NIB games on launch day...crush the FOMO pumpers... or the 'dream theme..' promoters who go on about how they'll pay sight unseen for stuff based on name alone.

Pinside attitudes isn't going to steer anything - It's people with their wallets. And no matter how much some people here pound their fists and kick their feet... they are the same buyers lining up to buy the next Stern before they even played it.

Keeping the discussion grounded in facts isn't supporting Stern - It's standing up to the bullshit that everyone starts repeating that drowns out any real discussion.

#6264 1 year ago
Quoted from FYMF:

That being said, I've learned how "lucky," I was to receive a game with no issues or known issues. My friends told me horror stories about receiving games with issues constantly as if it is the norm. - I cant accept this or stand up for this personally. I do not believe this should be the norm or reality as you phrase it.

Simply put.. proper expectations.

When something is being done a certain way for 5 years.. and someone rolls in midstream and goes "HEY, it should be this way because that's what I think it should be" -- Well, that's their opinion, but they also are ill informed and lack the proper expectations of what they stepped into. They don't have to like it, they can work to change it, but they don't get to redefine what it already is and was before. That's reality. Not everyone has the self awareness that things existed before them.. and likely will exist after them as well.

Quoted from FYMF:

It is because of my original thought process and subsequent experience that I pre ordered a RaM sight unseen with every option possible. Maybe to you I seem naive for thinking my 9400 dollar machine should work flawlessly and come with all the bells and whistles attached from day one.

I won't call you names - but don't expect any sympathy if it doesn't show up in that perfect condition you are expecting. Pinball is a physical thing. It comes with expectations from decades of evolution and experiences. Some people jump into the hobby and think it's going to be some hands-off consumer good that if it's got a scratch I just send it back to Best Buy and get another. That maybe their opinion of what pinball SHOULD be -- but that's not the hobby they got into.. whether they know it or not.

Quoted from FYMF:

If I purchased RaM and they later offered a topper for coin, I'm in and get it. In fact I ordered the topper for my Alice. - However if I ordered the RaM and later on they came to me and said "Hey FY!," for another 300 dollars we will send you the parts to complete your game," I'd be very jaded.

If it's a add-on, or 'completes your game' is a subjective conclusion. One would hope opinions should be weighed with some comparative examples.

#6270 1 year ago
Quoted from FYMF:

DLC via internet connectivity would have been way easier to swallow for everyone. Selling hardware as an elite secret feature is not a good way to start down the DLC path

Oh hell nos... Pinside is gonna lose it's shit when Stern first starts rolling out paid access to anything internet connected or enabled


Just hope Stern actually delivers some decent media and call out expansion on this title before they turn to monetizing their digital content.... because the current game situation is terrible.

#6313 1 year ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

Because the UV ink makes this game

Amazing how so many people bought this game without even knowing it existed! I guess they were pretty fucking clairvoyant weren't they?

#6320 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

It makes you wonder why Stern didn't list UV playfield ink as a feature on their feature matrix since they always list even the most basic of features (ex. super smooth action spinner).


Because they wanted exactly what they have here... the ability to sell an add-on kit.

Advertising the ink you can't take advantage of is even more backwards...

My comment was about the revisionist statement happening now.. that this feature is the feature that MAKES THE GAME - yet so many people shelled out thousands of dollars WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING IT EXISTED. It's using hindsight to rewrite history and justify something today. Complete bs

#6325 1 year ago
Quoted from wesman:

A preplanned, accessible to every existing game, future mod that went unannounced at launch is a shitty business practice.

These guys would like a word with you...

SPIKE_2_Headphone_Kit_d2ce2d25-9f20-40d9-acab-375df08c6747_1070x1070_crop_center.jpgbk-topper.jpgcrop-0-0-2048-1003-0-IMG_6453.pngimages (1).jpeg

#6327 1 year ago
Quoted from cooked71:

So they going to offer this as a factory fitted option I wonder?

Why? Stern doesn't do any build to order for customers. They ship inventory to distributors.

That would be a market for resellers - not Stern under their model.

#6333 1 year ago
Quoted from wesman:

How much does Stern charge for those headphone jack kits?

I know the toppers are $500 and up.

Those are existing cables that can be accessed for things not even gameplay, directly, functional. A playfield with specific ink qualities, integrated into every game, is not a gratuitous add on feature. It's the literal definition of a feature....BAKED IN.

The headphone jack kits are available now because... pssstt.. they built it into the spike hardware design.. its BAKED IN! Oh, and they didn't tell you when they shipped the spike hardware either!

#6341 1 year ago
Quoted from wesman:

You missed/negated my point.
The playfield is a LITERAL gameplay feature. An add-on headphone jack, is not.

It's lighting dude... don't over sell it. People just keep moving the goalposts...

So all these practices about 'they didn't tell me' 'they knew...' 'they didn't include it..' are all SOLELY because it's something under the glass. Ok...

#6373 1 year ago
Quoted from kpg:

Literally, its a feature that should have been standard and now they make you pay for it in order to get the 'full' experience of the modes. If buying this game, you almost have to buy this "MOD" and install it right out of the box or it's going to feel like something is missing.

10hrs ago... no one felt this way. And people spent 5-9k based on those feelings.

No one bought with a false expectation of what the game was. The game was revealed and people bought based on what they saw. Not based on some UV kit they felt was coming.. or was lacking.

#6377 1 year ago
Quoted from wesman:

10 hours ago equation doesn't make sense. Not in something preexisting that you've already accepted within a certain reality.

Point is everyone one of those buyers bought knowing what the game was... and consciously made the choice to buy based on what the game was. Now.. something ADDITIONAL comes out.. you don't retroactively go back and say "I really meant to buy this only if it had UV lighting... now I'm screwed because it doesn't have it".

To argue you feel your purchase is incomplete without this is to have no accountability for your own decision to buy. Your game did not get WORSE today. Your game did not get anything LESS than what it was this morning. It simply has MORE to it if you want it and are willing to buy it.

No one's game got 'crabs' today and is no worse off than it was before today.

#6378 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

That isn't true at all. It's been talked about repeatedly about how bland the upside down was and how they could have done more with it. And here we find out they did, they just held it back. Most everyone thinks it is very cool and makes it look like how it should have looked. Perhaps more people would have bought it if it had been released with this - or even revealed that it would be released later. No, they screwed up here, and deserve the criticism.

So again... someone made the decision to buy based on what they knew it was. Now it's MORE... not less. It's up to everyone to decide if they want that more or not... just like they decided if they wanted the game knowing what it was back in December.

Remember... this game had full details revealed at launch - none of this 'had to buy before the reveal..' crap. People bought knowing what the game was. If they weren't happy with the upside down then... and feel their purchase was incomplete... the only one they can blame is themselves.

#6466 1 year ago
Quoted from FYMF:

This is my point.
The plan should have been to roll these out with the LEs and then had the reveal.
Immediately after the reveal you offer the pro and premium guys a chance to upgrade closer towards the LE and unveil the UV paint.
That could have been pulled off. That would have made sense. . .

Then pinside would have been screaming over 'I only bought the LE for this feature! they mislead me!' or "whats the point of a LE if anyone can add the stuff in..."

It's the equivalent of selling LE translights to anyone. Advertising something as an exclusive LE feature and then selling it to everyone would go over like a fart in an elevator.

#6470 1 year ago
Quoted from yancy:

Stern defenders can rationally defend this move 'til they're blue (er, ultraviolet) in the face, but perception is reality. If customers feel like they got screwed, then it's a fail. You can't "logic" them out of an emotional reaction.

Correct - but that doesn't mean people get to create a new reality to bolster their emotional response.

The truth is this is no different than having a game pre-wired, bracketed, or software enabled for an add-on. But because it's a feature people think 'should have been included' - it's a riot over upcharges. Everything else is just alt-reality crap trying to make their case seem stronger.

And as others have included... people like Spooky are even making a coin box an 'upcharge' now... while the game's price increased over the last one... and no one bats an eye.

Why? Because 99% of the angst in this community is self-centered emotional crap - not rational thought.

#6471 1 year ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

An LE isn't even an LE anymore as it doesn't come with every feature offered by the manufacturer.

But that's not a real standard - Just crap people made up to justify their anger.

People are free to their own opinions - but not their own facts.

#6488 1 year ago

Just hope that when stern does go digital... that they attach purchases to the machine... not the user. Imagine not being able to sell all the upgrades you bought for your games....

#6560 1 year ago
Quoted from ZMeny:

Stern Pinball Stranger Things UV Lighting Kit
- Custom interactive code will activate lighting during dramatic events and experiences throughout game play, immersing players into the Stranger Things universe
- Available in Pro Version (item # 502-7118-Q1) and Premium/LE Version (item # 502-7118-Q2)
Kit contains: New bottom arch w/LEDs installed, 8 new butyrates/plastics w/UV reactive ink, ramp LED boards mounted on install brackets, and fasteners
Pricing: $279 (Purchase directly from Stern Pinball shop.sternpinball.com or from your authorized dealer/distributor)
***Picture shown below is the Pro Version Kit with plastic arch. The Prem/LE Kit includes a powdercoated steel arch
[quoted image]

How can there be all that stuff?? I was told it was all already built-into the game and stern just hid it!!

#6570 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I believe all that is is for power. Look in the manual. The uv controls are on the node board under the playfield by the flippers.

Nice.. right there on existing Node9 board. Unless Stern has rolled out some sort of software key mech... Guess knock-offs of this feature will be a piece of cake.

#6572 1 year ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Yep just saw that too, CN13 on node board 9.

CN14 - but yes.. looks like 2 LED drivers .. should be plenty for someone to simply 'follow' that and map to their own work.

#6619 1 year ago
Quoted from Stuieb84:

From a pinball innovation perspective:
This feature is supurb and shows that Brian Eddy is still as creative as ever and is advancing the medium of pinball.
From a marketing perspective:
This is amateur hour from stern. A staggered 3 launch approach (1st reveal pro only, 2nd reveal projector added, 3rd reveal uv added). If they had the game working and finished from the 1st reveal, then they would have smashed it, rather than faltered.
From a customer perspective:
I'm in the process of deciding which new pinball machine to buy in the near future and this really leaves a bad taste in my mouth from stern.

Or... you could have just sat back and waited to decide if you want the game after it ships, when you've gotten to play it, see it's warts or not.. and just decide if you want a pro or premium.

Basically... remove the 'Gotta be first in line..' line of thought and every one of your problems disappears.

There is no rush to buy games. There is no reason to buy LEs.

99% of the angst on this forum revolves around people who can't get that through their heads. Life is so much better without the above..

#6622 1 year ago
Quoted from Stuieb84:

From a pinball innovation perspective:
This feature is supurb and shows that Brian Eddy is still as creative as ever and is advancing the medium of pinball.


Sega did it in the 90s.

#6665 1 year ago
Quoted from Durzel:

That would’ve been sufficient I would think. LE buyers might still have been entitled to have a little grumble about it, but at least they would’ve been able to make an informed purchasing decision.
There’s no way Stern didn’t know this was coming, given the playfield ink, which means they omitted it from the feature matrix deliberately.
People still seem to be drawing comparisons to mods like toppers, shakers and other generic cruft, when this is patently not the same thing. If Stern had released a UV kit that was *entirely* add-on, as in all of the UV bits were additions or replacements for parts already fitted, it would be a different matter, but this was partially built into the game already - which means it was always intended to be there and was cut either for time or cost reasons, or simply because they wanted to nickel and dime their customers.
“UV kit coming soon! Available for all models. Priced separately“ would’ve been ok I think. Not great, but no one could’ve complained if they went ahead and bought with this knowledge.

How would this changed anything though?

Would someone NOT had bought the game because a future kit was coming?
It doesn’t matter to which version you bought because all models have it...

And anyone who didn’t buy the game... still can if they want to.

So how would the outcomes changed if this was on the feature matrix?

There is all this angst about people somehow being screwed because it wasn’t listed... yet... there is zero penalty for not knowing. So how are they impacted in any material way?

The only thing that would have changed is people would have been bitching every day for the last 6 weeks “when are we going to see the UV kit”

#6673 1 year ago
Quoted from Durzel:

The answer is different for everyone really.
As a rule of thumb I like to be fully informed about a purchase before laying money down. If the maker of something has deliberately withheld some pertinent information from me, or it feels to me like they have, I would certainly be left with a sour taste about it I think. If I was in on a Pro or Prem then I doubt I would have much cause for complaint, since I wasn't buying the fully loaded version anyway, but if I was in on an LE I'd want to know about OEM "mods" that were coming almost immediately after launch.

That's a 'nice to have' -- but the point remains the same... would it have materially impacted anyone's decision to buy? And if so, how? It didn't change what model anyone picked.. It didn't influence if you liked the game or not (because you didn't know it existed). Everyone is huffing and puffing about some burned people... but no one was burned.

The outcomes are 100% the same now as they were back at the start of the year. Every game has this future path enabled... And no one could get it as part of their purchase... and none of the buyers knew about it. So it's completely inert. It didn't advance sales... it didn't hinder sales. Buyers had only to GAIN from this inclusion. No one... NO ONE.. had something they were promised withheld or taken away.

The topic of 'it should have been in the le' is a subjective one.. independent of how it was launched. Making it known at launch wouldn't change that debate either.
The topic of 'is the LE 'everything included'' is another belief -- but is not what the company has sold, nor have they communicated that. That's a false expectation by some buyers. Again, when the kit was announced would not have changed this.

So what does this launch really impact? It's all about the 'go to market' strategy that people are actually up in arms about. They don't like seeing game features monetized period. But if that's really what's at the core of someone's angst... just recognize that and own up to it. Don't scream 'stern should have...' if that thing doesn't actually fix or address your concern. Don't create new realities that didn't exist before. And don't think anyone who simply is doing a reality check is actually FOR the change.. it's about being grounded and rational.

TL: DR - Understand the actual issue and push for things that would actually change things.. not just 'hindsight feel good' remedies.

#6674 1 year ago
Quoted from j_m_:

I think that the general perception is that a majority of the people here feel lied to and/or taken advantage of. had stern been up front and stated (at launch) that the playfields had UV ink but an upgrade kit would be required to take advantage of it (or even stated that there was "something" but that would require an additional purchase to unlock) and giving everyone a head's up, it would have allowed them to determine if they wanted to move forward with their purchase.

But how did not knowing influence that decision? It was something that was ADDED to what they were making their decision on. How did getting something for free, that doesn't negatively impact them, that they didn't even know about... come into play in their decision?

Quoted from j_m_:

yes, pinball has been making a comeback in bars but the truth is that a majority of owners are the home user. nickeling and diming that segment of their market that aren't going to recoup their costs (or a good portion of) from coin drop may make them re-think purchasing future titles, knowing that even with an LE, that initial $9,000+ purchase price isn't the [full] price

So if the root of your concern is the idea that features are being monetized... can we move past the irrelevant aspects like 'when' it was announced, or 'stern knew...' etc. It just muddies up the water. The root issue as you outline it is simply the idea of a feature being sold vs included. That can apply to the pro vs premium vs LE discussion as well. The vehicle to buy is really immaterial to the root concern you have.

#6676 1 year ago
Quoted from yancy:

Show of hands, how many minds has Flynn changed?

There's a reason 'mob rule' is considered the less informed path...

#6699 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

You are really arguing a point no one cares about

Oh they care - they just don't want to face that music. Your 'I dont care' is really 'I dont want to hear that'

Quoted from Zablon:

Nothing you keep saying changes the perception created by this stunt. You know what stops uninformed emotional reactions? Transparency. Something Stern doesn't like at all. It isn't about the money, it is about intent.

What intent? That Stern has something to sell you? What world are you coming from where that's never been the intent? Did Stern tell you something different than "Here is my product, please buy it"?

Quoted from Zablon:

If the consumer feels they were duped, nothing short of some sort of action from the vendor is going to fix that feeling.

Most certainly -- especially when they refuse to listen to someone trying to reason with them.

Quoted from Zablon:

If Stern doesn't address it in some manner, it basically makes everyone assume they were correct and that the intent wasn't to the benefit of the consumer.

They are selling stuff... what 'benefit to the customer' were you expecting when a company offers you a product to buy?

#6707 1 year ago
Quoted from Zablon:

If you think it's acceptable, we have differing opinions on integrity

No, I just don't like the offer - I'm not going to make up tales to try to justify my opinion and I'll question those who spin doctor something to try to justify theirs.

I think it should have been part of the normal game offer instead of as an accessory. But that's because I think the game was pretty barren and deserved something like it - not because "LEs are supposed to have everything!" or "they knew they were going to do it!!" postulations. I think the game was in need of more.

The idea Stern wants to sell more parts as accessories vs including them in the base games... it's a simple productization question/choice. Not some twist on 'benefit the customer' etc non-sense. It is a simple product strategy. You either like it... or you don't. There is no need to try to make this into some nefarious thing. All the high drama about 'there was something in the game...' that they planned ahead and/or didn't tell you about is all just crap people use to help justify their emotional response to being asked to pay for something instead of getting it included. That's what it really boils down to.

I think the strategy leads to an interesting question... if they would move towards modular sales. In the sense of instead of something being an 'exclusive' that had to be bought with the game... if pro/prem just become 'bundles' of things.. and the things you can buy a la carte afterwards if you want. Main reason not to do this I think is economies of scale and 'locked in' sales. By forcing someone to buy a premium instead of a bunch of accessories they can better forecast inventory, economies of scale, and force people to buy things they may not have bought if given the choice. Stern is probably doing better forcing you to overpay for 5 things to get the 2 you want... vs the markup they could make just selling you the two items you wanted.

#6916 1 year ago

For those of you parroting safety concerns about the UV lights and regulation and maybe why stern did what they did..please for the love of god stop.

Just because something is “UV” doesn’t make it harmful. Radiation waves are measured in wavelength. UV are the wavelengths just below visible light (400nm cutoff). The UV band is broken into three A,B,C with C being the shortest... and hence most harmful. Exposure is all about the wavelength and amount of energy you’re exposed to.. and it drops off exponentially with distance. A and B are the bands you get exposed to by the sun. What matters is the wavelength, power, distance, and duration of exposure.

Cheap UV LEDs are usually 405nm or 395nm... and they have a small slop band around what they emit. Visible violet light is down to 400nm... this is why we see these lights as bright purple lights. The lights produce a band around the specific wavelength they try to produce... so some higher, some lower. The slop ends up producing light above 400nm and that is what we see as purple light. In fact, the more purple we see the light as... that is less UV light actually being put out. At this 395nm band... they are just barely UV. Your UV flashlights etc are typically 395nm LEDs. All of this is UV-A band radiation. Its not the more harmful B or C type.

Yes, UV-A radiation can be harmful to your skin... but it is all about the exposure. Which is about power and distance. Tanning lamps work (and become harmful) because they use a few thousand watts of lamps at very short distances to give a high dose of UV-A in a short amount of time. LED strips are like 14w (power... not even what they can fully emit) for the whole strip. So we are talking orders of magnitude differences.

Remember the thing about distance as well? Thats why your UV light effectiveness drops off with distance. And we are not right on top of these things. Oh yeah, and time too. We are not baking ourselves in this.

The net of this is the radiation type seen here is the same type you get in normal outdoor exposure, but is in such small amounts it’s a not even a concern and why it’s not regulated.

We all have probably spent more time under a black light in college or as kids in arcades than we ever would get here. No one hides from a Tron cabinet... Nd those actually use deeper uv light!

#6965 1 year ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

Here’s a fun little parallel to the UV kit topic.
A few Tesla model 3 owners with the “partial premium interior” started complaining back in September that they used to have rear heated seats, but a software update removed their ability to use them, unless you bought the premium interior.
Now, everyone with an SR or SR+ was told every car actually has rear heated seat hardware and they can be activated via software for $300.
So imagine your stranger things had the UV kit installed and “accidentally” enabled for a few months. Then a code update removed its use, then for $300 you could get it back.



#6966 1 year ago
Quoted from Yoko2una:

The ramp flap too???

This was pointed out over a month ago.. the first week


#6992 1 year ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Exactly. And yet companies like spooky and CGC can make playfields that don’t dimple. My brand new MMr has not a single dimple in spite of many air balls.

Our MBr has plenty... they just aren't as obvious to the eye compared to the stranger things next to it

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