You are 100% incorrect.

No matter what the exposure setting is on the camera, it won't hide the fact you're either seeing the White screen or the Projected image... Period.

If you turned the exposure down and snapped a picture of the projected surface on STh LE, you'll still see a white screen with a faint projected image.

Exposure on the camera doesnt add or subtract the white screen material.

Deadflip just posted a picture of the game in a reduced lighting area

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He also mentioned the coding and graphics for the ramps isn’t implemented yet.

Looks better for sure!

id be the first to say it looks awful but seems like a thing you really need to see in person. some angles in the videos look good just seems like bad exposure/lighting. sure this thing wont perform great under a lot of light but with a game like this i think a darkened room atmosphere is best anyway.

that being said it could still suck but we'll see. i dont hate the implementation tbh. keeps you from having to look up at the screen if done right and still has function.

Look at the black speaker panels though.. the contrast, shadows and black level was modified in an app

Here, let's just make it better while we're at it lol

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wow, not a good look for mr. danger.

Yeh, was about to say there’s some heavy filter action going on there.

Could have done an aperature lock on the projector screen area, too, which would darken everything else before taking the shot. Didn't have to be done in an app, but likely an inaccurate representation.

When the gravy train's on two wheels throwing sparks and there's a curve ahead, you try to save the gravy.

Screen clip, unmodified, from a video taken at CES. It's well lit but you can't see a damn thang. That's kind of crazy really.

For comparison reason, projector screens in an equally lit room.
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And let's not forget, straight from Stern's promo video in a totally *black* room

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How is that a comparison? A commercial projector?

That's not a commercial projector.

That's just a projector that has the correct lumens output and reflective projection material for the intended application. Which is the point, all Stern needed to do was get a projector with additional lumens, likely only a few more bucks. Which is the point here.

Clearly Stern didn't design this pin as a Home Use Only pin, can we agree on that? I'm sure they fully intended for it to be shown at CES under this kind of lighting.

Why do people make excuses for this? Why be complacent and just call it what it is.

Why would you not expect a commercial projector in a commercial product such as a pinball machine which comes with a coin door?

You are comparing a projector in a huge conference room that potentially hundreds can view to an apron mounted projector that ONE person needs to view. Not a fair comparison kpg

The image is meant for the player. One person. Not a conference.

No.

I'm 10000% right!!!

And you should at least refer to my full posting to prove me wrong.

You set up a projector with less lumens then the sun outside on a sunny day you wont see anything.

Your projector doesn't project "darkness", the darkest color is the spot on the screen where no light shines on.
But if the sun does that for you, you only have shades of white.

If you like to prove me wrong take that picture outside on a sunny day and not in front of some windows letting the screen to be appear black.

I sure wish Stern could put some metal habit rails in Stranger Things versus just in the display at their CES booth... It's time to toss that thing and put a giant plastic loop up there.

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It's absolutely a fair comparison. There are calculations that are made when designing a large scale conference room, home theater, and even a small screen application like this pinball machine.

You need X amount of lumens combine with X amount of screen gain to = a clear picture that saturates the screen material that is being projected upon.

Just like a movie theater needs a massive $100K projector with 15000 lumens, a really good home theater needs a $1800-3500 projector with 3000 lumens... This machine needed at least 700+ lumens at this throw range and ambient GI lighting to give a clear picture.

This projector looks to be around 200 lumens tops.

So, to your point, the equipment used in this machine to produce projected images is not properly implemented. It doesn't need a commercial projector, just one needed to saturate the white screen material at only a 2' throw distance.

I was initially in for a LE as the theme is fantastic. I've been on the fence about picking up additional Stern NIB's due to quality issues, but the lack of transparency with the projector "innovation" was enough for me to cancel. I hope it's fantastic, but not looking promising.

We can go on about this topic so I'll just agree with you for the sake of not wanting to get into a huge debate on Pinside lol. It's all good brotha !!

I agree it is not properly implemented for CES or a CNET live video shoot with lighting rigs. It was designed for game rooms.

Well we can go back and forth on this all night, but we both haven't seen it in a game room environment so I guess we both can't prove one thing or another to each other right?

I'm just going off what I'm seeing here, and it's in my opinion that even in a dark game room, the projected image just won't be saturated very well and there will be some disappointed buyers.

I hope I'm wrong and you're right though, in all honesty. Just no reason to start a battle here.

For their next pin stern should just sell a whitewood in a cabinet for 10k. Then you guys can discuss upgrading it into what it should be for that price.

If the projector is your make or break decision on this game, you guys gotta look a lot more closer. Those plastic ramp returns are horrible for a $6k+ pin; i.e. bounce bounce dribble dribble. The rules look to be very uninspiring, and with Lonnie at the helm we kind of know how the outcome of this one will be. Artwork needs a touch of Franci. And the anus needs a serious makeover.

That all said, ill hold my final judgement when i play a prem of course...once it makes it to 1.00+ code.

I think we can all agree that it is disappointing that Stern made zero effort to showcase the key feature of the Premium / LE version of this game. They could have taken a Premium to a small room or a light controlled environment to show the feature that everyone is waiting to see. Jack could have streamed it for a couple hours. Instead they chose to show the game in a light blasted CNET live CES stage. So if I was the game designer I wouldn't be happy that my flagship game is being presented for the first time in public in the worst possible venue. Zach should have taken the pro the the CNET stage.

I didn't mean ot to serious, therefore the "10000%".

Pic from Mr. Flip:

"Here’s a snapshot of a “slightly” more normalized environment.
Keep in mind the content for the projector is still in development aka ramps etc."

Looks ok in my book. Of course the ramps look still white (the projector lights get way diffused there together with that overhead lighting that's not good), but on the Pro there'd be nothing, so...

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I totally agree man. The worst part is its the single best theme (to me) that Stern has put out in so long that it even brought me back to Pinside lol

It could have been done soooo much better and I guess that's the part that bugs me the most about this one.

A projected image is all about contrast. Nothing on this STH billboard, or in a movie theater, can appear "less dark" than the ambiance, only "more bright".

Not only is a movie theater darker than your average game room but (and here's the kicker) the image takes up most of your field of view. As a result your irises adjust to the average lumens the same as they would on a bright beach or a dark cave. Darth Vader/Batman is really white (no light transmitted, the base screen color) but because everything else is much brighter your eyes "scale" the dynamic range and presto - they look black.

This doesn't work on a small projector with a limited brightness and throw. The image is a small % of your field of view and therefore peripheral "light pollution" make the dynamic range of the projector look very narrow. Even if you play in the dark with no other games it's still competing with the insert lights, GI, LCD and backglass.

The concept is great. Pinball is a static medium and being able to "paint" different things onto objects is an awesome idea. But to really do it right you'd need a "real" projector, you know spend $400 maybe on it, which would require mounting it at a right angle below the PF near the coin mechs, using mirrors to turn the light 90 degrees to shine onto the playfield. (That's all more expensive than just a Pico under the apron) Then you'd have to deal with bulb life, heat dissipation and fan noise that would make a Spooky pin sound like Helen Keller.

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How about we wait to see it in its intended environment before we pass judgement and sentence it to death. Or we can just watch “experts” bicker over conjecture for 10 more pages.

Next.

My apologies. Instagram culture. I love filters. Here is a raw image for people that need it. ‍♂️

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That looks pretty good. I bet Multiballmaniac will be back in on a LE once he sees this!

I honestly don't think that looks bad.

They should be using a material like this for the screen.

Maybe we could get a couple screen samples and glue them to the stranger things pins screen and see if it improves the picture.

Stern should have used a material like this to begin with.

Here’s also an unfiltered profile shot of Zach playing, and one with the filter I used.
A filter can’t add the content to the screen.
The environment plays a role obviously.
It’s a projector.
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Taken with an iPhone X default camera app.

Zach looks way better filtered!

Agreed. He needs that snazzy sport coat too. ❤️

Oh and anyone having trouble with the demigorgan shot, we discovered on stream that a shot off the left flipper, preferably controlled, is waaaaaay easier than the right.

Maybe.

Maybe that screen is just very good at only reflecting direct light, wich would be great...

...but maybe the whole screen would just look black because of that if you‘re not looking right from the center... wich you aren‘t in a pinball machine.

It‘s not magic, it‘s physics.
So I‘m not 100% confident this would work, since that effect has to come with a price.

Funny, came here to post almost this exact thing.

Stern should have used a grey screen vs white with high gain reflective material in it.

Would be way better in lit rooms and look amazing even with the current projector just using different material

Maybe this could be a decent mod, because I doubt Stern will switch it up at this point. I just don't get why they seem to be using a very low gain pure white screen.

Here's a pic of a white screen vs grey... I think we can all agree on how much of a difference it can make.

White on left grey on right
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The unfiltered image Jack posted actually makes the projector look better.

As for Multiballmaniac1...I swear he was in several other threads for the last year proclaiming he would never buy a Stern due to quality issues. I kind of doubt he actually had an LE on order. Just ignore him.

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He is somewhat of a jokester and i dont know if he really had an LE ordered or not, but what i do know is he has money to put on a new game and he is afraid to buy a NIB Stern right now because of their playfield quality. I cant say that i blame him and i am in the same boat as he is. He and i both want a JP2 real bad but thats not going to happen unless things change with the quality of these playfields.

Not true on all games. Some it’s impossible regardless. Definitely needs code to allow the player to complete the mode simply from bashing it enough. For less points of course. Haha

Oh I agree...i've been patiently waiting for a JP2 Pro to show up used in my area for a decent price. I'd even consider one with bad clear that came with an unpopulated PF if the price was right. I just am not sure I want to play that NIB lottery myself. But from the past posts from Multiballmaniac1, I was highly doubtful he actually had an LE on order.

You got me. Lol

what if the projection is too bright? that can strain the eyes also. there is definitly a fine line between too dark and too bright.
project people project.

Quick observation: I love how for years people crap all over stern for not trying something different and pumping out the same old same old, but when they finally try something new everyone pulls out the microscopes and analyze the game before anyone can even play it....