On the video I saw them moving the game into the CNET “studio“ area. It was pretty dark already. No overhead lighting. This image has the least ambient light during the video.

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I am willing to bet Stern is using either this projector module from Texas Instruments.

Retail price is $99, and if buying in bulk I am sure they are getting them for $30-35 each.

http://www.ti.com/tool/DLPDLCR2000EVM

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This is disappointing.

And if it's all because it can't be video recorded properly, then Stern should have gotten ahead of that with Jack Danger. But right now we're just left with C-Net and they aren't exactly a cell phone video.

That's only 640x360, and it's brand-name. Stern is very likely using a 1280x720 Chinese knockoff pico projector. MAAAAYBE 1920x1080, but I doubt it. Stern doesn't pay for brand name electronics as a rule, and certainly not in this case. IF they wanted this projector, they'd just go direct to the chinese company that made the optical part of that TI system, Young Optics Incorporated.

Felt a bit sorry for Zach on that video. Couldn’t get the levitating ball thing to work either - only because he was trying to simulate it for the camera by throwing the ball and obviously the timing/power was different than flipping.

They began talking about the projector “tech” but once they realized it wasn’t working the reporter changed the topic to “other” tech in the game. In the end they didn’t even talk about the projector.

Admittedly, I love this theme and I am getting an LE, so I want/need this to be good. That being said, yesterday, DeadFlip posted some quick videos at CES and while he doesn't show a lot, the projector images look a lot better than on the cnet still images.
https://www.facebook.com/DeadFlip/videos/1437197739771110/
https://www.facebook.com/DeadFlip/videos/632212824250140/

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The thing with video is that it exaggerates how weak the projected image is. Try to shoot a projector screen with a cell phone camera in any room but a 100% dark one, and you'll see first hand that the camera makes it appear worse than it is. It's still not the best design by Stern, but I don't think it's quite as bad as we are seeing in the videos.

I think the CNET guy must've lowered not raised the exposure. Everything looks too dark.

Which is just odd since that would make everything more sim including the projector images.

Unlikely that CNET is using a cell phone in their video. Probably a decent DLSR at worst and likely some sort of ENG camera that should have no problem producing a decent image in relatively low light.

Regardless... this isn't a good look. The middle screen looks to be barely passable. However I have yet to see decent shot that actually shows the projections working on the ramps aside from that 'teaser' from Stern that got leaked.

And yet a cell phone did a better job at getting the projector to show up.

The problem isn’t with producing a decent image. The problem is a camera can only deal with one exposure at a time. If it exposed for the screen, everything else is way dark. If you expose for the room, the projector is washed out.

I’m going to wait until I see it with mine own eyes.

Human eyes will do a much better job of this.

I’ll bet in typical playing conditions this machine looks great.

There must be some reports of actual impartial people who have played it at CES?

Agree. That’s why when I stream mine I’ll have a dedicated camera on the projector stuff with its own settings. I assume jack has already tried this, but hopefully I have better luck.

Can video do HDR yet?

ProjectorGate is in full swing.

Well history show us they design these things to a $3000 BOM. So yah for what we pay, they should_ put in the $300 600 lumen Pico, but that's not the Stern machine.

No doubt this will be a great mod to do once we figure out what fits. Prob we can buy any_ pico, de-case it, and retrofit the machine.

I wouldn’t worry about this projector issue as the next Stern title is right around the corner. Time to start worrying about what’s next. For me anyway the shorter the time i actually examine new Sterns the better they look. That would be a great business model. Someone should tell Stern. Oh right........

Maybe this could be the first mod ? Put the white screens on blast! lol

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I’m sure Stern never even play tested the game and projector before they started selling STH

It will look like washed out garbage in a HUO environment?

Yeah, Stern is trying to pull a fast one and slide this little projector crapper right by Pinside!

Don’t they know that we see every single dimple and post clear mushrooms?

Wtf are they thinking

It doesn't look as terrible as in the CNET photos but at the same time you're still seeing the white projector screen quite clearly. As has been shown earlier in the thread a decent lumens projector and a suitable display material will effectively make the screen disappear and be replaced by whatever is being projected.

If you're going to have a whizz bang feature on your $7700+ pinball machine the least you can do is make it actually work effectively for your customers. It kinda feels like Stern are trolling their customer base at this point.

the projector is gonna be just fine in a dark room. common sense a projector wasnt made to be used in lit area. if your pin is gonna be in a lit area dont buy it.

Maybe you're supposed to play it under your bed or something, like where Seven was on the show.

little unclear which show you watched.

7-11?

Seven of Nine ?

lol sorry, it's late.. nearly 2am here (that's my excuse)

I know its been beat to death.... I play the xbox on a projector... a really old Epson powerlite 8100.... at the time I got it it was a good middle of the road so its decent. With some low very low ambient light it looks good... you can have modest ambient light and still looks ok, but starts to look a tad washed out... if the lights are on you can see the screen, but looks really washed out and not really good, but you could play on it if forced too. Without any facts... would assume we are in the same situation here.

Will be interesting to see what it is like when more people get them in their hands, AND if there is something better we can put in there to upgrade it. Forget who posted above, but clearly if you get a good enough projector, you can overcome ambient light.

Agreed. We'll have to wait and see it with our eyes.

Hiking is my favorite thing to do, and landscape photography is a passion of mine that grew out of that. I've got some of the best gear money can buy, but nothing beats the human eye for a live experience.

I'm sure Stern didn't break the bank of a projector, but I'm also sure they tested the crap of this, and have a package that will work. I'm getting an LE, so I'm biased in that hope though, but I just can't imagine they would put something out that was an epic fail. Maybe I give them too much credit, but I believe it's going to look great in homes.

I do hope it's something that we could mod in the future. I'd like to have the choice/option to upgrade to a better projector. Might be impossible thought if they custom rigged something.

Quite sad there's only two features over the Pro, yet there's a $2K difference at least, $3000ish if an LE- and one of those is the main feature - a projector - that cost maybe $30 tops, and people are already suggesting to upgrade the upgrade

Gotta laugh at this one.

Agreed. Now, with all those at CES...some have got to be pinsiders, and someone has seen it in person. Enlighten us! Tell us the projector is great and looks nothing like the vid/pics.

What did you think he would say? "Oh fuck this thing is a train wreck?" Of COURSE he will be positive.

At the end of the day Stern hasn’t really promised anything about the projector. I’m assuming the best it’s going to look is as per the original “leaked” video that was clearly a Stern production aimed at showing the projector in its best light (see what I did there!?).

If you’re happy with what’s in that original video you’ll be happy with the game in real life (when played in a dark environment). If not, don’t buy it. Certainly don’t buy it assuming it’s going to look better than that video or assuming you’ll be able to upgrade the projector.

See below...

This community saves Stern even more money by doing the work for them.

Interesting view, considering, if this were implemented right, would be a huge leap in Pinball tech. But, you’re right, Stern hasn’t promised anything...but maybe they should.

Just found this on you tube. Posted by Retro Ralph Stern pinball CES 2020

It'd be pretty entertaining if he did. He just doesn't strike me as a salesmen.

Only time will tell....we'll have to see it in action. I'm not going to react emotionally and jump to conclusions. (not saying you, or anyone in particular is doing that...just speaking in general)

It's only one variable and your photos prove nothing.

You won't still see shit in daylight if your projector is not brighter then the sun.
And your screen set up with the windows in the back would appear darker then it is due to the backlighting effect and camera exposure.
You know, like photographing someone with the sun behind him and suddenly hes all black.

I love this guy's narration: "I bet these are really expensive.. like $3-5k"

Hilarious that he estimates the pins cost $3000-$5000 depending on which model.

And he calls Gary Stern Rick Flair.

EDIT: Great minds think alike.

Right? Also, drink every time he calls the screens “DMD’s”.

You guys do realize that photos & videos of pinball are never true to the eye, right? I'll reserve judgment until I see/play a Premium in person.

In fairness the 2 models he was most impressed with - SW Home and STh Pro - were $3-$5k.

Funny how it was the LCD on SW Home that seemed to impress him most. Here we are debating how good the projector is and he couldn’t care less.

Technically LCD/LED/OLED displays are still Dot Matrix Displays. They're a matrix of colored pixels, so he wasn't really wrong. Just kind of out of date. Like calling a CD an album. Not totally wrong, but...

I get what you're saying...it shouldn't be something we have to worry about, and hopefully we don't have to.

I like options though. I've spent descent money upgrading factory speakers and dmds, etc... I've spent quite a bit on mods (of course, that's an augmentation and not a core feature from the factory) but the underlying principle and precedent of spending more to make a game better is there. Should we have to fix a 9k toy?...no, but it's just pinball. It's just for fun. I don't take it too seriously.

Exactly.

I can see the meeting now back when they were designing the pin

Designer: "Hey this $30 projector module we sourced for the Prem/LE models works decently, but there's another one for $56 that increases the brightness and lumens by 40%"

CFO: "Nah, just pull up Pinside right now. They'll just buy a $300 projector on Amazon, take it apart, and upgrade it if they have a problem. Plenty of people won't care if you read the comments. Why waste the money. Let's go with the $30 unit."

I'm going to tell you right now why I know this.

When I spoke to Gary Stern on the phone regarding my Ghostbusters playfield, I had mentioned some of the issues that were design flaws with the game in general and he said "this happens with all of our games, but pinball machines are kind of like my Harley's.. it's about customizing them, there's a huge aftermarket for pinball like Harley's"

So in a way Gary was correct. Why even bother, reading these comments here plenty of people are fine paying top dollar for mediocre shit then "fixing" it themselves lol. To each their own.

I canceled mine last week. Get a pro if the code gets good other than that enjoy the cratering.

I'm considering a Pro myself, initially I wanted the LE but no way I'd pay $9k for what I've seen.

Now the Pro version really seems like a great deal all around now.. so in a way, seeing how bad the projector implementation is just pushed me to get a Pro. The money I'll save from the difference I'll just apply to a JP Prem. So Stern still gets my money in the end LOL

Meanwhile, Harley stock price down 50% since 2006 while DJIA is up 100% in the same period. Keep emulating Harley, Gary. It'll catch up with you eventually.