(Topic ID: 257038)

Stern Stranger Things

By pinmister

2 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 7,154 posts
  • 647 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by Collin
  • Topic is favorited by 83 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Are you interested in a Stern Stranger Things pinball machine?”

  • Yes, I am interested if it plays well and has polished code 488 votes
    40%
  • No, I am not interested 439 votes
    36%
  • Maybe, not a huge fan of the franchise but maybe if it plays well 100 votes
    8%
  • I like pizza 202 votes
    16%

(1229 votes)

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Topic index (key posts)

13 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

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#3451 2 years ago
Quoted from pinmister:

I am digging the Premium art the best and wondering what powder color would look good? Candy Red, Iced Candy Blue or maybe chrome?[quoted image][quoted image]

Iced Candy Blue - seems like it would really tie in with the cabinet art well. The cherry red for the pro model.

#3452 2 years ago
Quoted from aingide:

The idea of these super expensive games getting refreshed every few years is great. There’s a low chance Stern will get it right. They’ll just call whatever code launches with the game 1.0, even if it’s not done.
I dread the inevitable day that code updates go behind a paywall. It’ll take years, but it’ll happen. Stern will frame it as a “value add” that keeps location games earning for longer periods of time. I bet they’ll even include “free” code updates if you buy an LE...that’ll be a great benefit to list on the feature matrix!
They need recurring revenue to justify the Internet connectivity functionality. Bet the farm on it.

The network functionality is clearly the beginning of that. It's not just for high scores and operator convenience - that doesn't make Stern any money. I'm sure there's an eye toward adding paid upgrade features over the network (if not an outright plan already in place).

-25
#3453 2 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

The network functionality is clearly the beginning of that. It's not just for high scores and operator convenience - that doesn't make Stern any money. I'm sure there's an eye toward adding paid upgrade features over the network (if not an outright plan already in place).

Paid upgrades can be really great. Some people just think it’s always a scam, that companies intentionally hold stuff back and force people to pay for it later. In my experience that is not how it works. It’s always about time and budget or something you just didn’t see during development. I would happily pay for a mini wizard mode half way through the jukebox on my AC/DC. I understand that it seems obvious and people will complain and say it should have been there from the start. You just have to ignore that very vocal minority and focus on the positives. The pinball market is obviously very willing to spend on cosmetic upgrades, they would pay for value added content.

19
#3454 2 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Paid upgrades can be really great. Some people just think it’s always a scam, that companies intentionally hold stuff back and force people to pay for it later. In my experience that is not how it works. It’s always about time and budget or something you just didn’t see during development. I would happily pay for a mini wizard mode half way through the jukebox on my AC/DC. I understand that it seems obvious and people will complain and say it should have been there from the start. You just have to ignore that very vocal minority and focus on the positives. The pinball market is obviously very willing to spend on cosmetic upgrades, they would be pay for value added content.

Why do you like being taken advantage of? You’re practically begging for Stern to F you.

It’s not a vocal minority. No one wants to pay for pinball code updates when the game already cost $6k-$15k. At that price, you’ve paid for all future support. Jesus, they can barely finish games within 2-3 years of release. There’s no market logic in pinball that makes any sense to introduce paid upgrades. They don’t have the resources. The user base isn’t there to justify it. The licenses will be expired by the time they could get around to it. Etc etc etc. It’s the worst idea of all time ever. Stop begging for it, FFS. Find a game that’s good and play it.

#3455 2 years ago

No point arguing about it, the dude is insane. If it did come to that, plain and simple wouldn't purchase it to begin with, and it would come out pretty fast if it was held back. They can barely make working code now, I don't even want to think about them having an incentive to put out crap code.

-6
#3456 2 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

No point arguing about it, the dude is insane. If it did come to that, plain and simple wouldn't purchase it to begin with, and it would come out pretty fast if it was held back. They can barely make working code now, I don't even want to think about them having an incentive to put out crap code.

Just to be completely open I work at EA. My opinions are my own and purely hypothetical as the relate to pinball.

#3457 2 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Just to be completely open I work for EA and was the lead software engineer on the most successful DLC in history. I know the amount of internet hate we get. I also know how popular and loved the feature is. Clearly I’m just insane and have nothing to offer on the topic.

EA makes video games!!

These are pinball machines!!!!

You of all people should realize the massive and multiple differences in the product, market, and companies.

Maybe it’s because you’re an engineer and not a creative that you can’t comprehend the differences? You know who else is an engineer who was convinced he was right that pinball needed to be a platform with paid apps? Gerry from P3. I see the similarity with you two.

#3458 2 years ago

Paid DLC or content addons or whatever for pinball is a terrible idea. Just because it works for the video game industry doesn't mean it will work for the pinball industry.

#3459 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

EA makes video games!!
These are pinball machines!!!!
You of all people should realize the massive and multiple differences in the product, market, and companies.
Maybe it’s because you’re an engineer and not a creative that you can’t comprehend the differences? You know who else is an engineer who was convinced he was right that pinball needed to be a platform with paid apps? Gerry from P3. I see the similarity with you two.

Darscot's been giving us all terrible advice about the software industry for years. Remember when he claimed that hiring more people wouldn't help Stern produce more code updates?

#3460 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Darscot's been giving us all terrible advice about the software industry for years. Remember when he claimed that hiring more people wouldn't help Stern produce more code updates?

Did you know he works for a major gaming company in software? Oh you've already been told 10,000 fucking times? Insufferable dealing with people that have zero awareness to their surroundings. Read the room dude.

-10
#3461 2 years ago

Ah anti-intellectualism alive and well. I leave you arm chair experts to it.

Sorry if I announce where I work a lot, I am legally obligated to make it public. Just so everything is above board. It’s part of the agreement to be able to post on any platform.

The same handful of people do not always speak for everyone.

21
#3462 2 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Just to be completely open I work for EA and was the lead software engineer on the most successful DLC in history. I know the amount of internet hate we get. I also know how popular and loved the feature is. Clearly I’m just insane and have nothing to offer on the topic.

Does it suck knowing that your company will never make anything better than NHL '93 for the Sega Genesis?

#3463 2 years ago
Quoted from delt31:

Speaking of, the game is so dark/spooky that including neverending story at the end would kind of break the feel. Thinking about where it might be best.... But injecting humor into this at this state will be interesting on Sarena part.
Love that theme music.

Isnt the game only based on seasons 1 and 2? Neverending story was season 3.

13
#3464 2 years ago
Quoted from pipes:

Does it suck knowing that your company will never make anything better than NHL '93 for the Sega Genesis?

Lol, personally I’m partial to 94.

#3465 2 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Ah anti-intellectualism alive and well.

Projection alive and well.

You have not given an intelligent case for paid pinball DLC. “cuz vidjo gaimes dood it, and I makes vidjo gaimes so mes smarts and youz stoopids” doesn’t make your case.

But yeah, we’re the idiots representing the anti-intellectual movement. OK.

11
#3466 2 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Just to be completely open I work for EA

2A3B76A7-0AFA-4CE1-BC29-E6822D65D18E (resized).jpeg
#3467 2 years ago
Quoted from pipes:

Does it suck knowing that your company will never make anything better than NHL '93 for the Sega Genesis?

SSX Tricky on PS2 was incredible. I think that’s the last EA game I bought. Maybe it’ll get some DLC so I can play it again?

#3468 2 years ago
Quoted from pipes:

Does it suck knowing that your company will never make anything better than NHL '93 for the Sega Genesis?

Whoa whoa, I think you mean '94. Best hockey game ever.

-7
#3469 2 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Just to be completely open I work for EA and was the lead software engineer on the most successful DLC in history. I know the amount of internet hate we get. I also know how popular and loved the feature is. Clearly I’m just insane and have nothing to offer on the topic.

Man i'm with you. Been saying it for years.

Pinball has to evolve with the rest of the world. Subscription annuity based revenue is essential for survival. You can't just sell hardware. Look at Apple.

Stock doubles this year on high margin "services revenue" outlook and progress.

Look at Microsoft, its all high margin annual annuity payments for cloud. That's why they get a 31x multiple.

On and on....

#3470 2 years ago

Furthermore, pinball people will pay for anything that moves. Look at the amount of $$$ spent on mods.

We aren't the most intelligent consumers collectively.

#3471 2 years ago

Pinball companies absolutely should offer paid "season expansions" for games that released before a show finished. TWD, GoT, R&M, STH all great candidates.

You don't think people would pay $500 for 6 more seasons of content/modes for their TWD? They hand out 7k for couch swatches FFS.

#3472 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Pinball companies absolutely should offer paid "season expansions" for games that released before a show finished. TWD, GoT, R&M, STH all great candidates.
You don't think people would pay $500 for 6 more seasons of content/modes for their TWD? They hand out 7k for couch swatches FFS.

Of course they would, just put it out there and watch it roll in.

Maybe cut down on a few plastic junk mods to offset the cost?

#3473 2 years ago
Quoted from KnockerPTSD:

Whoa whoa, I think you mean '94. Best hockey game ever.

I'm partial to '93 but yes '94 is technically superior. I was out once you couldn't make Gretzky's head bleed anymore. ...was that '95?
Sorry, got a little side tracked there...back to stranger things.

#3474 2 years ago
Quoted from pipes:

I'm partial to '93 but yes '94 is technically superior. I was out once you couldn't make Gretzky's head bleed anymore.
Sorry, got a little side tracked there...back to stranger things.

I love when games influence culture, that scene in Swingers is amazing. Look how far those guys went.

This whole DLC sub topic did come from how cool it would be to add Season 3 content with the projector.

#3475 2 years ago
Quoted from Darscot:

Just to be completely open I work for EA and was the lead software engineer on the most successful DLC in history. I know the amount of internet hate we get. I also know how popular and loved the feature is. Clearly I’m just insane and have nothing to offer on the topic.

To be completely open, I stopped buying EA games long ago. It's predatory marketing feeding on peoples pokemon syndromes. I'm not disagreeing it works, but I also won't pretend it's not been used to screw over the consumer as well.

#3476 2 years ago

paid DLC is one of those “works in video games, doesn’t work in pinball” things people love talking about, like online competitive play.

As long as the pinball home buyer base is what it is - old and stubborn - this will never be a thing.

The natives are restless about a $700 toppers and their place in line on a spooky game. They’d riot at the mention of paid code.

I doubt it would be worth manufacturers’ trouble either. Add two seasons worth of code to stranger things so some home buyers bite with a few hundred bucks? Why waste time and effort on that. Better to just invest the time on a NEW game that the same home owners will buy anyway, along with ops as well.

#3477 2 years ago

I think the DLC guy was hired to take the heat off light bulb longevity guy. wow... lol

#3478 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

paid DLC is one of those “works in video games, doesn’t work in pinball” things people love talking about, like online competitive play.
As long as the pinball home buyer base is what it is - old and stubborn - this will never be a thing.
The natives are restless about a $700 toppers and their place in line on a spooky game. They’d riot at the mention of paid code.
I doubt it would be worth manufacturers’ trouble either. Add two seasons worth of code to stranger things so some home buyers bite with a few hundred bucks? Why waste time and effort on that. Better to just invest the time on a NEW game that the same home owners will buy anyway, along with ops as well.

So, intent is really what it comes down to. I get it, Stranger Things was started before season 3....so...sure...additional content down the road, paid to get? Probably wouldn't have an issue with it. However, we all know how the software paid content has went over the years. When it becomes about planned milking rather than delivering a quality product first and foremost, the curmudgeons such as myself, walk the other way. I mean, the whole price difference between what he's talking about and pinball are astronomical.

16
#3479 2 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Pinball companies absolutely should offer paid "season expansions" for games that released before a show finished. TWD, GoT, R&M, STH all great candidates.
You don't think people would pay $500 for 6 more seasons of content/modes for their TWD? They hand out 7k for couch swatches FFS.

But Ben, look at how TWD was designed & coded already. The show’s narrative is irrelevant. It has zero assets from the show. What would “adding 6 more seasons” even mean in terms of rules & presentation? Most people consider TWD one of Lyman’s greats - a great game is always a great game. Once again, it’s a game, not a DVD box set. If you want to play a pinball game based on a theme you like, play the game. If you want to watch the show, fire up Netflix.

#3480 2 years ago

I think paid for DLC, or whatever it will be called, is coming to pinball.

I see Rarehero's points though and he's not wrong about it all. Maybe if they dropped the prices back to where they were in 2010 it would be sweet, but it is hard to pay 6-15k and then fork over money for content.

I'd pay for DLC, if it made the game better in the end. It's tough to trust this model though because all of it is subjective....it's impossible to know if a game is really complete and DLC is just extra goodness, or the remaining 25% of the original game that we should have had in the first place.

I don't have all the answers, but the if companies do it, the plan should be transparent and communicated up front when the game is released.

#3481 2 years ago

Any collectors or locations have this game yet in the Phoenix valley are?
The reviews are a bit all over the place and really want to check it out for myself.

Also, any locations in NYC? I’m going to be there in a few weeks and if there’s one on location there would go check it out.
Thanks

#3482 2 years ago
Quoted from Rockytop:

I think paid for DLC, or whatever it will be called, is coming to pinball.

It is already here.

JJP offers code updates for WoZ and Hobbit (and maybe others)at additional charge that have a timed version of the game designed for use with ticket dispensers. Additional games implemented in software are also sold for the Multimophic P3. It is also standard in other arcade games - Raw Thrills offers several paid add on games for BBH HD - the Zombie attack, several additional animals, and duck hunting games. They are releasing more next month.

#3483 2 years ago
Quoted from Coindork:

Any collectors or locations have this game yet in the Phoenix valley are?
The reviews are a bit all over the place and really want to check it out for myself.
Also, any locations in NYC? I’m going to be there in a few weeks and if there’s one on location there would go check it out.
Thanks

Brooklyn has two, sunshine laundromat and Jackbar. Enjoy.

#3484 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Projection alive and well.
You have not given an intelligent case for paid pinball DLC. “cuz vidjo gaimes dood it, and I makes vidjo gaimes so mes smarts and youz stoopids” doesn’t make your case.
But yeah, we’re the idiots representing the anti-intellectual movement. OK.

And frankly you've made no argument except "it shouldn't happen" and insisting Pinball is different, but no reason why it would be different. Consumers don't want dlc because it's an avenue to extract more money from them... but they prove over and over they will keep paying.

If it's games, photo apps, puzzles, camera apps, the list goes on and on.

Recurring revenue is the model all development wants... its inevitable that hardware-only companies will dip their toes in as well.... as they already have in so many other industries. Hell look at slots... they are almost exclusively a lease model.

Stern's lack of online connectivity is a hurdle to providing good controls over piracy... that barrier will fall too.

In case you haven't noticed... one of the biggest arcade games of the decade... golden tee is heavily dunked in micro transactions, dlc, and online requirements

#3485 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

paid DLC is one of those “works in video games, doesn’t work in pinball” things people love talking about, like online competitive play.
As long as the pinball home buyer base is what it is - old and stubborn - this will never be a thing.
The natives are restless about a $700 toppers and their place in line on a spooky game. They’d riot at the mention of paid code.
I doubt it would be worth manufacturers’ trouble either. Add two seasons worth of code to stranger things so some home buyers bite with a few hundred bucks? Why waste time and effort on that. Better to just invest the time on a NEW game that the same home owners will buy anyway, along with ops as well.

Yet it's the same audience that spends how much on dolls, displays, and other gizmos to customize their games after they bought it.

You don't think they'd pay for actual game play additions?

#3486 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

And frankly you've made no argument except "it shouldn't happen" and insisting Pinball is different, but no reason why it would be different. Consumers don't want dlc because it's an avenue to extract more money from them... but they prove over and over they will keep paying.
If it's games, photo apps, puzzles, camera apps, the list goes on and on.
Recurring revenue is the model all development wants... its inevitable that hardware-only companies will dip their toes in as well.... as they already have in so many other industries. Hell look at slots... they are almost exclusively a lease model.
Stern's lack of online connectivity is a hurdle to providing good controls over piracy... that barrier will fall too.
In case you haven't noticed... one of the biggest arcade games of the decade... golden tee is heavily dunked in micro transactions, dlc, and online requirements

Can't you buy now even add ons for Tesla cars? That's more expensive than a pin.

#3487 2 years ago
Quoted from T3quila:

Can't you buy now even add ons for Tesla cars? That's more expensive than a pin.

Tesla license locks functionality for their cars that are paid to unlock.

#3489 2 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Yet it's the same audience that spends how much on dolls, displays, and other gizmos to customize their games after they bought it.
You don't think they'd pay for actual game play additions?

I think they would react violently to paying for code updates.

I think people who own the latest ghostbusters and are whining incessantly about where’s our code will riot if another month goes by without one, but you can buy new code for a 6 year old game.

I think resources will be better spent (ie more profitable) for Stern (let’s just say stern, who else has resources to do this) than on new code, which remains difficult and time consuming even though people here think it can be tossed off in a weekend.

Just a hunch. I don’t think it would work for anybody in pinball. Could be wrong. You can’t overlook how much people loathe and resent stern around here; yeah they’ll pay money for mods and dolls, but they’d prefer these come from anybody besides Stern. For some reason that’s more acceptable to people.

#3490 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I think they would react violently to paying for code updates.
I think people who own the latest ghostbusters and are whining incessantly about where’s our code will riot if another month goes by without one, but you can buy new code for a 6 year old game.
I think resources will be better spent (ie more profitable) for Stern (let’s just say stern, who else has resources to do this) than new code, which remains difficult and time consuming even though people here think it can be tossed off in a weekend.
Just a hunch. I don’t think it would work for anybody in pinball. Could be wrong.

Agree, I don't think we are quite there yet. But I also think over time the clientele will be replaced by people that are used to subscription models and Gary Stern won't be CEO forever either. The accountants already got a hold of Stern manifesting itself in the QA issues of past years. It's a question of time, I think, until we get presented with that. Will it be tomorrow? No! But when that day comes I would like to have some constructive ideas how to engage the manufacturer to not turn this into a total cf.
Hence the whole question was how would you do that to make that palatable to us customers.

Rarehero made a very good point earlier that the games are finished without the continuity of a show built in.
In the flip side of Stern ever goes towards this model I rather would choose to pay for more assets like future seasons instead of being billed if I want a new Multiball. I think the value add would be more for me.

#3491 2 years ago

I think a complete game is already pre-loaded into the price. Of course everyone would complain if you had to pay extra to have it finished.

But, assuming it’s not abused by the supplier (and that’s the big unknown), DLC would be fantastic. If you could own TWD (or whatever) for 12 months, play it to death, then Stern releases a completely new Lyman coded version of the game for $500 (or whatever). Totally different rules, animations, sound etc. Then you’ve got 2 versions of the game you can choose.

But as I’ve said before, Stern is a manufacturing company first and foremost. DLC employs software guys but doesn’t keep the line moving.

Even better would be open source code after 2 years. Never going to happen but imagine that.

-8
#3492 2 years ago
Quoted from T3quila:Agree, I don't think we are quite there yet.

This thread talks about Dialed In, now if Stern would sell subscriptions to code updates. Notice how we're not really talking much about Stranger Things Pro? Word on the street is this game is not good and people are cancelling LE orders after playing the Pro. This thread lingers at 70 posts, while Rick and Morty the other new release is at nearly 200 pages. I think that says it all... Spooky Pinball stole the conversation from Stern. How did that happen?

Stern needs to slow down, and focus on building the best games. If they want to be the fastest to market they won that race, but be the best not the fastest.

If I was Stern I'd pay Keith DOUBLE RIGHT NOW not to get swiped by another pinball manufacturer. He's Stern's Ace right now. Personally if you want to switch the topic from Stranger Things here is a topic we should discuss.

Should pinball manufacturers all look to change the old guard and hire the best pinball players to design their games? It sure is working for Stern right now. If I was say American Pinball that is EXACTLY what I would be thinking.

10
#3493 2 years ago

ST with spots to help with the middle

Plenty of light and keeps the mood spooky...

Comes off a little brighter than it is...

Just a really nice color palette that you don't see very often

UV trough light from comet will wrap it up

20191231_190503 (resized).jpg

#3494 2 years ago

At least it's supposed to be that color..otherwise people would be throwing it in the puke thread. People around here hate purple

#3495 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I think they would react violently to paying for code updates.

For 5 minutes and then the mob would yell "take my money"!

There is no more fickle consumer that you literally can't piss off than the pinball consumer.

Put a $500 update pack out there for TWD for example and watch people fight over how fast they get it.

#3496 2 years ago
Quoted from Zablon:

..otherwise people would be throwing it in the puke thread.

Way late on that one

-1
#3497 2 years ago

My last post on the DLC topic it’s literally been over a decade of learning with DLC. The whole hold stuff back for future makes no sense. Step one is make your product great and deliver as much content as possible. Every feature you don’t deliver at launch is lost sales. Every lost sale is lost potential for your next product and DLC. Launches of current product directly correlates to the launch of your next product. Stern is clearly struggling at step one, launching current product. DLC is all about keeping that ball rolling. Great launch starts things moving, follow up with great DLC and you rolling right into the next launch. The goal is for people to love the current product and playing the shit out of it when you announce the next one. New modes and features is a great way to do that. It’s all about momentum.

#3498 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Brooklyn has two, sunshine laundromat and Jackbar. Enjoy.

Awesome, thanks.

#3499 2 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I think they would react violently to paying for code updates.
I think people who own the latest ghostbusters and are whining incessantly about where’s our code will riot if another month goes by without one, but you can buy new code for a 6 year old game.
I think resources will be better spent (ie more profitable) for Stern (let’s just say stern, who else has resources to do this) than on new code, which remains difficult and time consuming even though people here think it can be tossed off in a weekend.
Just a hunch. I don’t think it would work for anybody in pinball. Could be wrong. You can’t overlook how much people loathe and resent stern around here; yeah they’ll pay money for mods and dolls, but they’d prefer these come from anybody besides Stern. For some reason that’s more acceptable to people.

This is the same audience that in the last year has agreed to pay subscriptions to Stern, Spooky, and even podcasters for 'early access' to things as simple as news/teasers.

If Stern came around and said "here are three new modes and two new multiballs, and a wizard mode" for XYZ title... People would pay. How many? Well that's the magic in forecasting and predicting margins.. but to keep painting this picture of the 1990-2010spinball market is not really true anymore IMO. People are throwing money around like Mardi Gras beads. If it were for actual game EXPANSION? People would pay..

#3500 2 years ago

So what little video we have seen of the premium/LE, the projector is showing a lot of what's on the LCD. Is it going to be lame if both are showing the same thing at times or will people not care?

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