At a certain point there isn't much of a diff'rence, that's the problem.

Shouldn’t you be bitching about your number over in R&M??

Yeah, while I would like to have some of the later GoT season content added in, they can leave out the crap from the last couple seasons and we'll just pretend it ended in Season 5 and Winter never came.

1.) LOTR doesn’t have every story beat, character or piece of content from the movies.

2.) I’ve had the game for over 10 years and never seen Valinor. Most people won’t even get to Destroy The Ring. I love LOTR, it’s the best deep game ever, but depth for the sake of depth or as a marker of good game design is way overblown.

learning-is-fundamental (resized).jpg
you CAN teach an oldlaw a new trick!

How would LOTR pinball been if it covered just the first film and skipped the last two? It wouldn't be remembered nearly as well, and wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as it is over 10 years later. Destroy the Ring, a mode most players can get to on a great game, wouldn't even be in the game.

Cool, you missed my point entirely, bro...just like you thought “mom jeans” on DI was a reference to the construction lady, and not the dude on the playfield wearing mom jeans lol

No TV show pinball has included the entire series story arc. They don’t need to. They’re games. Not DVDs. It’s not relevant to whether the game & rules & integration are designed well.

What if....24 was only...23?

Cool, you missed my point entirely as well. Yes, there are TV show pins that have covered an entire series story arc. Batman 66 and STTNG. Every detail and event from all seasons doesn't need to be covered, simply having some modes (even just 1 or 2) based on critical events from a season (or movie) is what helps create a beginning, middle, and end for telling a themes story. That's what LOTR pinball does.

Nah I'm good!

Played a few games today. It was fun. Can't wait to see Prem or LE.

Makes sense. Without a large portion of the story covered, people can’t help but wonder ‘what if’ or missed opportunity. It’d be great for GOT to have final seasons added into the code. Would be possible, no?

Why would GOT need that much content in a pinball game? While I’m not a fan of the GOT game, what I do think was brilliant is how they decided to tackle the theme. Pick a house, take the throne as that house by defeating the others. Perfect way to distill a huge complex series into a core concept that works well for a pinball machine. Same with Walking Dead, which didn’t even have any show assets...but thankfully, “kill zombies” is really all a game like that needs to work in terms of narrative. 2 seasons of STh is enough content for a game. Kids doing kid stuff, flipping into the Upside Down, killing monsters. Boom...it’s a game.

STTNG doesn’t cover the entire series or even present itself as a storytelling game. The modes are relatively generic. Asteroids, Time Rift, Board the Shuttle, Q...they don’t even use clips from the show...it’s all custom....but, it works. Perfect example of how an entire show’s narrative doesn’t have to be part of a pinball to make a great game of a license. STTNG is a perfect blueprint for a licensed TV show game.

I guess you could leave the inserts generic or replace them with little LCD screens. After that Stern can sell you DLC with new assets and modes and so on.
Plus you need to leave then the art also generic enough.

For Stern, I guess, since a lot of their sales goes to operators not really lucrative but for the more boutique manufacturers it could be worth it. But they would need to fork out a lot of money for a ongoing successful juggernaut license to make it desirable for huo people to buy it. Plus imagine the pushback here.

Just a note on the code. I'm in no way versed on how pinball companies develop their software. However; I know a few things about software development. A lot of companies strive for their first release to be an MVP (Minimal Viable Product) delivery. If the develop in an Agile methodology this process allows them to deliver a workable solution and allow the stakeholders to help define the next release. This works a lot better than having a bunch of engineers and designers sitting in a conference room trying to capture everything they think the customer will need in the first release. Instead, you deliver a workable solution and let the stakeholders (customers) define where you go next. Again, I have no idea how pinball companies deliver software but I like that they delivered the first release in an MVP fashion. This allows the player to drive requirements for the next release.

And the programming would seemingly never end. You have to stop supporting a game at some point.

The software is small enough (can be handled by 1 or 2 people) and the boilerplate / framework well established so you don't have to worry about ripping lots of BL underpinnings out if you didn't plan far enough ahead, so that makes sense in this context.
What just sucks is that apparently a lot of the developers have to code on it in their free time to create the really beloved later versions from what I have read here.

And to me this seems liek the complete worst way to make a pinball machine. Feedback of course for bugs and issues, but wants and desires from players that's what Pinside is for.

I believe I located where the projector is in the apron.

Looks like a small lense, likely there's 2-3 for the entire playfield? Not sure... But notice how dark the room is this guy is playing it, and how washed out the screen is.

Hopefully it looks better in person than this because I think we can all agree that washed out projected video kind of sucks.
Screenshot_20191230-125739_YouTube (resized).jpg

Screenshot_20191230-125421_YouTube (resized).jpg

Well, DLC of course wouldn't be free. Imagine you can buy season 3 in a year and then season 4 in another. All new assets and modes and you decide on the setup which seasons you currently play it have it progressive.
Continued revenue for the manufacturer plus new stuff for the owner to keep it fresh. If course releasing then something like 0.64 is a no-no.

It sounds like a nice idea on paper but I fear manufacturers would use it as a way to include less in a game upfront and then just charge more for add on content packs later.

I hear you, that's always the danger. See the EA model in video games!

I just don’t think they have the manpower to pull that off. That would be a significant undertaking it seems.

Fair point, that would be a significant change in how business is done in the industry!

I would love you see a cost breakdown for current machines. The video department and code development has to be the most increased cost over the past years. Followed by licensing, then toys.

Yeah yeah, we get it you work in software Everyone that works in software brings up this point here. People have had to wait literal years to get the code "done" on a game, Stern doen;t have the manpower to be working on extra shit the entire time that is happening.

Well, I'm talking purely code and not layout. I agree 100% on the manufactured play fields and design. Again, I'm not in the pinball business so i don't know their strategy. But delivering a base set of code and driving the changes with the customer is a common practice in software engineering.

Interesting point on the OT. I could see that in a small development shop. The MVP solution works well with a small team of engineers as it's easier to make a course correction on the code.

Conceded, but that is a problem in management.

I'd love for STH to have season 3's assets because I love season 3. I don't think it needs to be a great pin, but it would nice. Eddy's vision of basically having a blank canvas and using the projector to "change" the playfield, would be perfect to show Starcourt Mall.

I am a GoT-Nerd and i would love to see the whole story in the pin. Will never happen, i know.
But it would have been nice when for example
first Multiball Blackwater Multiball
second Multiball Battle of bastards Multiball
third Multiball the long night Multiball

The pin would be less repititive and the player has a feeling of a complete story.

That is why i can´t decide to buy a GoT again.
Had one, sold it, missed it but after Season 8 i think too much is missing....

With STH it would/will be the same feeling for a STH-Nerd i believe.

Looks like code .75 just because available.

Nice new code already!

NEW CODE! Stern Pinball has posted new Stranger Things code v0.75.0 for the Pro models.

This code contains bug fixes, additional polish, and game enhancements.

Pro – v0.75.0:
https://sternpinball.com/?post_type=game_code&s=Stranger+Things+Pro

PRO V0.75.0 - December 30, 2019
=====================

- Changing revision number to sync with LE/PRE rev level.
- Added new Demogorgon Kill SFX to Bust Out.
- Added new Demogorgon Kill SFX to Trap'Em, Trap'Em Super Jackpot.
- Added new Demogorgon Kill SFX to What's That.
- Added new Demogorgon Kill SFX to Run Will, Run Will Super Jackpot.
- Added new Demogorgon Kill SFX to Can't Stop This, Can't Stop This Super Jackpot.
- Added Send it Back Intro SFX.
- Added Light the Fire Intro SFX.
- Added new Send it Back Intro display effect.
- Added new Light the Fire Intro display effect.
- Added new Final Showdown Intro display effect.
- Added Bullies award speech.
- Changed the volume of the Bullies award SFX.
- Changed/Raised the speech volume for all speech .wav files.
- Added speech for finishing Morse Code.
- Added Progress meter to Quarter Hunt.

The million dollar question for manufacturers is, would you and others pay enough to make that happen and profitable for them.
I agree with what people said countering my points above actually, I don't think the market is there. But it's a nice thought experiment.

Exactly, and that management isn't changing anytime soon. None of the companies seem to be heading this way yet...it's still evolving as to whom the consumer really is in your model.

OMG don’t give Stern any ideas or we’ll be paying for DLC multiballs and modes

These are already $6-$15k machines. They’re not $60 video games. Pinball code should never be seen as DLC, ever. These games should be tested and complete experiences at launch...Stern got into the habit of releasing incomplete games when updates didn’t need a ROM chip burned anymore...and unfortunately they’ve continued this & people keep buying, so they have no incentive to release finished games. Still - each game has proven it needs 2 to 3 more years to be finished. That’s not DLC or added content. That’s all shit that should have been there since day 1 for such an expensive product.

Stern is a manufacturing company. They need to keep the production line moving. Prolonging the lifespan of games already in people’s homes by extending content doesn’t help sell new games. Better for them to invest in a completely new game.

better the code is finished to begin with. Waiting 3 years shouldn't be the norm.

Fully agreed!
I was giving an idea for how a serialized license like this could gain future content.
As I said above I also agree that I don't think the market is there yet, the ROI for the manufacturers too small and for us customers the danger that we get nickled and dimed to get a full product is too large.
I think somebody will be left holding the bag if this ever comes to fruition unfortunately, and I think it's going to be the customer. - as stated just a thought experiment.

It isn’t the norm.

Actually it does. Because if Stern just pushes out games and never finishes them, they lose future business as customers don't want to be stuck with ultimately incomplete games. If Stern updates the code on older games to finish them or finish the content, then customers buy the newest games as they feel confident even unfinished games will be finished.

That's great! Lots more choreography and I'm sure there's much more to come.

I actually have a JP Pro and I like it, but it's hard to play and nobody who comes to my mancave plays it much because they find it "too hard". I prefer games that I can enjoy playing, I get too frustrated with JP, it seems. Am considering selling JP pro to get Stranger Thing Premium, but first I wanna see how that whole projector thing works out...

Stern doesn't make machines with incomplete code, Lonnie does

Beyond that playing for content REQUIRES a bug-free delivery. Right now, we buy a $5K-$10K machine with nothing more than the HOPE final code is good and bug-free. There's never a promise. With paid content, that shit better be right.

source.gif

But they’ve been releasing incomplete games forever and their business keeps growing. Everyone complains about it, and then buys the next new game with even less code than the previous game.

It’s a nice theory, but the reality is everyone’s addicted to unboxing the latest game.

Just unboxed and my 5 year old played first as usual.... He got the hole in one shot his first try! I think the toy is fine haha
20191230_170749 (resized).jpg