City combos give you an award for rocking 5

As you say, it did take forever, but it finally got the love it deserves. The shots, rule set & MB's are top notch. Dots are "meh", but they don't really effect me much when I'm playing...

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This issue must be game or setup dependent. My biggest issue with the demogorgon toy is that the reward for hitting it through the mouth was so low. I had good success using the left flipper.

I’m still waiting to play it myself and know nothing of the modes.

Heard back from a couple of friends that played on location. General feeling is, just avoid shooting the middle altogether and rely on every other shot as it’s a fairly simple shooter with a super raw code. This ended up yielding scores ranging from 1-2.5 billion.

What about on the third or fourth mode?

Genuinely the funniest comment and response I’ve read all year

What is the award for getting 15/15??!!!

Can see a little bit of KISS/AS/GOTG in NST.

Oooh, where is this mythical garbage can located? I like BKSoR quite a bit, and I would especially love a free one, even if it did have bits of old burrito or kleenex on it!

What about the second? While the reward for the first is nothing, the two ball multiball for the second is some good value for that point in the game. My suggestion for the first would be some sort of risk reward to be able to build the value of the first demog mode. Like ramp combos add to the value, then the mouth shot collects. Or you could add value from the demodog standups. Could add via pop hits to incorporate them more. That small tweak would add a lot to the first bash mode without upsetting too much of the added value from subsequent one.

There‘s a lift ramp that shoots the balls at the backboard magnet as I see it in the trailer.

Or make it a hurry up that starts at 10 million. Would put pressure on the player to kill the demogorgon right away making the one shot kill more satisfying. Missed shots that bash the demogorgon could up the value too. Like the Gordon target and the bat phone hurry up.

Correct. I thought the were referring to the orbit ramp.

We where

No way you're getting all 15/15 in a game. My max is 6 different city combos in a single game after owning it for 8 months, and I still have not made the 10 shot Detroit City combo.

For thoses who has the chance to play with it are you fans of MM or AFM at glance?

I'm a huge fan of MM and AFM i was thinking maybe buying a MMr but when i saw that Brian Eddy was the designer of the new stern pin i was super excited

I watched the reveals stream and i was a little desapointed because i didn't feel this game didn't have moments like the iconic multiball for both Eddy games.

So for thoses who played do you think fans of MM and AFM will love this game?

And yes i loved the show.

P.S2: I just bought Deadpool Pro and damn i love this game!

No idea. I think big fans of stranger Things will like it eventually.

Check back in 6 months when the game has had time to mature code wise. Way too early to be sure right now.

Oh shit. Really? A friend is getting his tomorrow. Can’t wait to play it.

Right on cue. Knew someone would say this. Of course nostalgia dollars are going to be spent on these old games. There are enough people that like them, but make these same non themed games today and watch how sales will not be so kind. That alone makes your statement ironic and hilarious. Most people won’t risk spending 9k on a no name game today, unless a pinhead and sales will be small. Just look at Black knight SOR for example.

Look no further than Dialed In a nonthemed game to see how bad sales would be. Dialed In is every bit as good and in many ways even better with a great deal more tech in it and certainly many times deeper code, but being an original theme has kept it from selling in the big time.

AFM, MM, MB and the like are pure pinhead nostalgia games. Ask anyone that is not a pinhead and they will not care about those titles, although if they saw them might put in a quarter or two, just as they would on Dialed In.

In this day and age, it is big name IP titles that sell, which is obviously why pinball makers choose them and almost never make original titles. Too risky indeed and not enough demand. Back in the 90s, the landscape was much different being a location only driven market.

I'm a new pinball fan since this summer and i never play or heard MM, AFM, MB before and god theses games age well. Maybe for more hardcore Pinball players it's true but i still think thoses are a super entry point for new pinball players.

Curious. LOTR had the same size hole. But the ramp aimed ball at the center. This ramp may be too wide or need guides If this is a real problem stern could resculpt a new monster?

Wouldn’t disagree, but a name brand IP, will gain more attraction as an entry point every time over a non-themed original.

Licensed themes are also why prices continue to go up and less is going into the games. Pretty soon all of them are going to look like supreme but not be worth nearly as much.

It's easy to hate on the old games and play it off as nostalgia, but the reality is those games hold up well for a reason, and it goes beyond nostalgia.

Don’t hate these old games. They are still fun! They only hold up because they have 25 years of time on their side. People enjoy looking back at their youth and their layback life as a youth, playing pinball in the arcade. We all think fondly of that time. But shallow games don’t hold up well in a HUO environment, because of shallowness and becoming boring is the point, unless there is a huge IP to back that game up.

It has been proven over and over that people will not keep in their collection games that become monotonous to some degree unless it has a big name IP attached to it.

I agree with your assertion that prices are way too high and less is being put into games as well.

Unless it’s a B-D title from the 90s it’s hard for me to get them as they cost too much. Glad they are readily available on location though as they still earn well.

You’re conflating two different issues. Non-themed games don’t sell today, that is true. No one is dismissing that fact. People buy on theme hype today.

Saying MM/AFM/MB are only nostalgia games & dismissing that they’re actually good games is wrong. Again, there weren’t enough of them around to become nostalgic. They’re good because they’re good. They’ve stood the test of time because they’re endlessly fun. Newbs & Pros love them. Excellent design. Excellent Lyman rules & code. I never played those games in an arcade. I have zero nostalgia for them. I have nostalgia for T2 and EATPM...and I don’t own them. I have nostalgia for Addams & STTNG...but I own them because they’re excellent games to play.

^^. Same reason I own a MBr, and not a MMr or AFMr. I never played MB over the years, but I played MM and AFM to death. As much as I love them, I figure my money is better spent on something I hadn't played a ton of. Regardless though, to drop 6-9k on something has to mark a bunch of boxes. Not all of us are millionaires. Any objections to any pinball machine are perfectly acceptable, because entertainment is always about personal preference, not what the masses think. Some people need to be more objective and quit taking any negative criticism about a game personally. You don't need to justify why you bought one...unless you had nothing but negative things to say about it, and still pre-ordered an LE anyway.. :p

This proves they’re STILL FUN 25 years later, not that people are blindly enjoying them out of nostalgia. People hang onto video games for nostalgia, not pinball. Great pinball is always great pinball.

You don’t understand what “shallow” means. Play DE game like BTTF, Simpsons or TMNT. Those are shallow. Almost nothing from B/W in the 90s was shallow. Full of modes, multiball, wizard modes, scoring strategies...not to mention the best build, gameplay, mechs, toys and light/sound choreography. No amount of convoluted math/chess of a game like Stern SW will take away the expertly crafted gameplay experience of the 90s games.

Wrong why? Because your beloved old timer games say so? No one says they are not good designs, cause they are. It is only being very shallow and original themes that would not cut it into today’s market, that is why your continued assertions are plain silly and wrong. No manufacturers are going to take a chance on these type of titles today, because pure business acumen and sales logic wouldn’t allow them to do so. Just look at the poor sales of a fun playing game like Oktoberfest if you have a difficult time understanding this point. Sales have been very poor to say the least.

Except..you keep saying no one wants them. People DO want them, and they do just fine on routes as well. You are not wrong about original themes not really doing well these days, but that's really not the point. Most original pinball themes are based off of a license anyway...

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but what is the total price for the pro version? I just saw the stream on DF & really considering this title.

Never said people don’t want them. Pinheads do still enjoy and want them. That is the reason CGC is in business, but even they are going to go with a rumored licensed theme soon.

Stubborn newbs, amirite?!

Again you’re conflating two different issues & misusing shallow. You throw around this buzzword and you have no idea what it means.

-No one is arguing that non-licensed themes don’t sell.
-No B/W 90s game is shallow.

That being said, Octoberfest didn’t sell because it’s a stupid niche theme & is the ugliest game ever made.

MB/AFM/MM can still sell today because:
-Excellent original themes anyone can understand: Destroy the castle, kill the aliens, bash the monsters.
-Excellent design, gameplay and rules.
-Excellent art, sound and characters.

Nostalgia is irrelevant to these games. Nostalgia is what’s selling awesome themes on horrible games like GB & SW.

Pinheads HAD them already. CGC remade them because of all the new buyers who wanted them couldn’t get them. These aren’t just games for pinball nostalgists. They’re for buyers who recognize what amazing games they are, which are endlessly fun, which = longevity in a home collection.

Also, CGC was in business for decades before they decided to get into pinball.

I like this game a lot and still feel stupid for getting an LE. Just can’t help myself. 3 games out, one really expensive game in. Haha.

Somewhere around 5700-5800 shipped. Maybe a little less.

Well said. That’s why Remakes are here. Those 90 games are bad ass and fun as hell to play. Do I like new stuff, hell yeah. Do I like the old stuff, hell yeah. Is my Addams Gold playfield chipping, no. What does that have to go with anything. Nothing! I just wanted to say it.

Agree. Wouldn’t be in the way of the projected image either. Possibly cost saving measure as they have the demodogs on video.

That’s a good idea. Kill the 2-4 demodogs that pop up. Then the ramp lowers for the main kill.

One big difference.

AFM, MM and MB = fantastic iconic themes.

Dialed In. Er, not so much.

Fun/value/ratings are all subjective. We all like different things. Depth/complexity doesn't always = fun, in any form of entertainment, including pinball.

I've had pins at home since 2003. I've got modern sterns, JJP games, I've had spooky games, the bally/williams classics etc...

Sometimes I'm in the mood for a deep game, sometimes a more simple game. I like variety, and for me, that means I want to own a game like CFTBL or WH20 or AFM or MM or Tron...and I also want JP2, LOTR, JJPPOTC, IMDN, TWD, MET, etc...

I think AFM is one of the best games ever, period. If you don't think so, that's cool. It has nothing to do with nostalgia for me...I never once played it or MM or MB at an arcade. I played it for the first time around 2004 at a friend's house. I think there is a perfect amount of code for that game, and ruling the universe is not easy at all, nor is ruling the kingdom.

So somedays I think MM and AFM and MB are the greatest games ever, and some days it's JP2 or JJPPOTC or TWD.

I've owned an MM since 2003. Just sold my CQ restored one to spend 10k on a royal edition. Why would I do that when I could buy a deeper new game?...because it's fun.

Nah man you just don’t get it. I was ten or eleven when MM first came out and never saw one in an arcade, so no nostalgia here. I started buying machines when I was 18 and I’m 33 now. I’ve had MM for over a decade and it’s still my favourite game, and I’ve had countless ‘deeper’ games come and go since then. MM / AFM aren’t shallow, they just don’t have the obscene complexity of some of the modern games - but they are still perfectly balanced games that everyone can enjoy regardless of playing ability. If you prefer machines with more complex rules then that’s fine, but don’t confuse lack of complexity with being shallow.

Edit: MM is also my most popular game with non pinhead friends, all of whom are of a similar age and also have no nostalgic feelings towards it. It’s accessible, easy to learn yet hard to master, and has the best toy in pinball. Even my wife loves the game and she hasn’t really cared for any of my other games apart from Tron LE.

I've had hundreds of different people over my house over the years and MM is almost always their favorite game and the one that turned some friends into pinheads themselves.

Very well said.

would be simplier to just redesign the ramp.. maybe give it some guides.

Don’t have a game here but curious if this might be a simple fix. The screen is a simple bowed metal shape is it possible some are simply bowed a bit to much? Seems like if its shooting high you would need to carefully bend the center bow up to reduce lift. Guessing but I would think they used half hard stainless which will take and hold a forced bend. I would say just a 1/4” or so less bow in that ramp would dial it into ball swallowing position.

The problem is you approach this as an 'either or' situation.. instead of reality which is

1) The different elements (theme/story, art, sound, play) all contribute to a game's desirability
2) How those elements will be prioritized will differ buyer to buyer

A great game WITH a desirable theme will be more desirable than a theme alone. But theme alone can also sell game even if the play is weak. This is not a 'must fit a formula' thing. Theme classically has always been a good sugar high. In the operator days it was used to attract players to a game. It was used to build confidence that operators should buy a title virtually sight unseen. Today, many home buyers buy based on theme because of whatever attachment they have.

The key is the attachment. Your simplified view fails to address that the 'attachment' to something isn't limited just to the idea of using an established IP. The attachment can be memories/nostalgia. It can be what the image projects (lifestyle brands, sports, etc). People are drawn to something they have an attachment to. Using an established property as the game's theme is just a subset of that 'attachment' phenomenon.

Plenty of people keep what we think would be crap games simply because FOR THEM the image of the game, or what the game projects is enough for them.

In the modern NIB market... theme is critical because it's a feature that spans multiple buyer types and the pure players are not the dominate part of the NIB market. The sad thing is theme will sell more games than gameplay at this point.. at least initially.

I think Dialed in is an extreme example simply because it was handled so poorly at launch. In today's NIB market, attachment to an existing IP/theme simply is a huge portion of people's buying decision. The wider/stronger the appeal.. the better for initial sales. And it's kinda stupid.. but that's what the people willing to speak with their wallets are doing.

Instead.. we could play a fun game of Congo.. but if that were launched side by side with the ultra simple ST fan game... today's buyers run to ST.

Dumb.. but it's their money...

If it were bowed significantly, the hinge points would likely be binding and causing problems...

Huh? It’s hinged from the bottom. Didn’t say to mess with the hinges. The door(ramp) is bowed which dictates the trajectory of the ball travel. Simply reduce the bow across the center. (Left to right)

Excellent art, design does not sell a game to anyone but pinheads that remember them from their youth. See the results of Cosmic Carnival, it has excellent art. Re-read my posts for you to understand. Your still “conflating”. Do you sell these games or have stock in them? Lol

Just confirming here...you and your friend each played a single game of AFM/MB/MM and you each cleared the final wizard modes(Rule the Universe/Monsters of Rock/Battle for the Kingdom)?

Definitely not trying his on his game, but if mine needs help I’ll look into it.