with le prices collapsing on the secondary market this might not be way off.
i would buy a loaded huo sth le for 5500 but i dont think its worth 10k for the new one.

I can't believe people are saying. "Stern knew about this" like anyone has to be freaking convinced about that.

I'm surprised that no one has pointed out the fact that stern is sticking it to the pro customers even more since the pro kit includes a plastic apron and the premium/LE owners receive a new metal apron for the same price

given that the injection molded apron has a much lower material cost, you would think that the pro kit should be at least $30-40 cheaper

Being Sterned has become like being Choggerd. Damn, a new low.

I love my LE.... But damn guys...you release a game with bare bones code, then announce an add on feature that was already baked into the game...THEN you release a new code for the add on and they make you wait until March to ship the hardware that they make you buy to enjoy your new code?? Sounds like an emotionally abusive relationship... Lol

The fact you get a new apron and plastic makes me think (giving Stern benefit of the doubt) this was originally intended to be part of the game but they couldn’t get all the parts and plastics ready in time for the pushed up/rushed release before Xmas.

As a result it was probably decided to use it in order to test the water selling it as an in game add on, along with their accessory add ons (toppers, art blades, shoot knobs) if it’s a success like their accessory lines have been we will see more of this in the future.

Yeah those comments are head scratchers for sure!

It’s pretty simple it was either an intentional add on after sale or it was unintentional due to delays in getting the parts together for the pushed up release of Stranger Things, either way Stern definitely knew about it and it was a market test.

You are correct! It is completely in their right. No one says it isn't. It is also in the customers right to call them on it. See how that works? Also, 'fancy lighting' now 'gameplay' later. Wait for it.

You don't think Stern charged everyone for that UV paint that they can't use without this other part? Highly unlikely. It was rolled into the price of the playfield cost.

New Stranger Things Season 4 trailer dropped if any fans of the show are interested.

Looks boring if that is the best they’ve got. Is this the last season for STh?

That's not 'the' trailer, it's just a teaser. And a mighty fine one at that. I believe they do plan on a 5th season, but it was up in the air the last time I heard read anything about it.

They should have stopped at the end of season 3 and the season would be remembered fondly forever. More isn't always better.

Yeah but more seasons mean stern can double dip when they drop their upcoming dlc for stranger things season 3 and 4 modes

You knew what you were getting into, all the red flags were there. Your friends told you to run. You didn’t listen.

How would this changed anything though?

Would someone NOT had bought the game because a future kit was coming?
It doesn’t matter to which version you bought because all models have it...

And anyone who didn’t buy the game... still can if they want to.

So how would the outcomes changed if this was on the feature matrix?

There is all this angst about people somehow being screwed because it wasn’t listed... yet... there is zero penalty for not knowing. So how are they impacted in any material way?

The only thing that would have changed is people would have been bitching every day for the last 6 weeks “when are we going to see the UV kit”

I don't know about that... Having 11 and the others try to get Hopper out of a secret Russian military base could be fun to watch

The answer is different for everyone really.

As a rule of thumb I like to be fully informed about a purchase before laying money down. If the maker of something has deliberately withheld some pertinent information from me, or it feels to me like they have, I would certainly be left with a sour taste about it I think. If I was in on a Pro or Prem then I doubt I would have much cause for complaint, since I wasn't buying the fully loaded version anyway, but if I was in on an LE I'd want to know about OEM "mods" that were coming almost immediately after launch.

At the very least if this was known to be coming then I would have probably tried to negotiate it as part of the cost of buying the LE pin in the first place.

I don't disagree with you in terms of your general point, people can choose to buy it or not. I'm not saying that I don't think Stern should be able to sell addons etc post-launch. I'm saying that in this particular instance it feels like this was *removed* from the LE pin before launch, either because it wasn't ready or because they simply wanted to get more money for it.

I happen to think that the interaction of this mod, and how appropriate it is to the theme, makes it a must-have if you've already got an LE, to the point where it's like an LE+ spec. It would be like having Tron LE and the ramp fibre optics coming out post-sale.

I think that the general perception is that a majority of the people here feel lied to and/or taken advantage of. had stern been up front and stated (at launch) that the playfields had UV ink but an upgrade kit would be required to take advantage of it (or even stated that there was "something" but that would require an additional purchase to unlock) and giving everyone a head's up, it would have allowed them to determine if they wanted to move forward with their purchase.

doing it the way that it was revealed, was VERY similar to how capcom released the marvel vs. capcom title where all of the bonus content was already on the disc, but you had to pay to unlock it and again something that was not explained prior to launch (again, the point being content created and integrated, but requiring an additional purchase to unlock).

if Whysnow 's numbers are accurate, (300 or so pro machines and 200 premium/LEs sold), maybe this is the wake-up call that stern needs to stop screwing over it's customer base.

yes, pinball has been making a comeback in bars but the truth is that a majority of owners are the home user. nickeling and diming that segment of their market that aren't going to recoup their costs (or a good portion of) from coin drop may make them re-think purchasing future titles, knowing that even with an LE, that initial $9,000+ purchase price isn't the [full] price

edit:
Durzel beat me to the punch with many of the same points that I was attempting to make

You are actually 100% correct with that guess. I didn't think the UV rail would go that far down.

Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 8.20.57 AM (resized).png

I think we can all agree that the UV feature of the game that was designed from the beginning is really cool. I mean, it actually brings the Upside down element into the game and turns the intensity up into what it should have been from the start.

It actually convinced me that I'll end up with an LE.

But, not a NIB. I refuse to pay full price for an LE + the rest of the pieces afterwards for the entire game.

I had a deposit in from when I first cancelled the LE with my distro, and was on the fence and watching how it played out before reordering. Almost ordered it again last week.

Then this dropped. Emailed him yesterday and he refunded the deposit.

I'll pick this up used when someone already has spent the extra money and time to install it, and ill be able to get the thing for $7400-7500 in a few months. This kind of tactic will simply hurt NIB sales over time.

That way the code is matured, game is cheaper, and the original owner forks up the cash for the trickle of withheld parts Stern will sell a few weeks/months after the game ships.

Levvy, there's a rule on the interwebs... You simply cannot throw out a diss graphic if it's a watermarked stock photo

That's a 'nice to have' -- but the point remains the same... would it have materially impacted anyone's decision to buy? And if so, how? It didn't change what model anyone picked.. It didn't influence if you liked the game or not (because you didn't know it existed). Everyone is huffing and puffing about some burned people... but no one was burned.

The outcomes are 100% the same now as they were back at the start of the year. Every game has this future path enabled... And no one could get it as part of their purchase... and none of the buyers knew about it. So it's completely inert. It didn't advance sales... it didn't hinder sales. Buyers had only to GAIN from this inclusion. No one... NO ONE.. had something they were promised withheld or taken away.

The topic of 'it should have been in the le' is a subjective one.. independent of how it was launched. Making it known at launch wouldn't change that debate either.
The topic of 'is the LE 'everything included'' is another belief -- but is not what the company has sold, nor have they communicated that. That's a false expectation by some buyers. Again, when the kit was announced would not have changed this.

So what does this launch really impact? It's all about the 'go to market' strategy that people are actually up in arms about. They don't like seeing game features monetized period. But if that's really what's at the core of someone's angst... just recognize that and own up to it. Don't scream 'stern should have...' if that thing doesn't actually fix or address your concern. Don't create new realities that didn't exist before. And don't think anyone who simply is doing a reality check is actually FOR the change.. it's about being grounded and rational.

TL: DR - Understand the actual issue and push for things that would actually change things.. not just 'hindsight feel good' remedies.

But how did not knowing influence that decision? It was something that was ADDED to what they were making their decision on. How did getting something for free, that doesn't negatively impact them, that they didn't even know about... come into play in their decision?

So if the root of your concern is the idea that features are being monetized... can we move past the irrelevant aspects like 'when' it was announced, or 'stern knew...' etc. It just muddies up the water. The root issue as you outline it is simply the idea of a feature being sold vs included. That can apply to the pro vs premium vs LE discussion as well. The vehicle to buy is really immaterial to the root concern you have.

Show of hands, how many minds has Flynn changed?

There's a reason 'mob rule' is considered the less informed path...

how can't they use it? the ball rolls the same...

You are really arguing a point no one cares about. Nothing you keep saying changes the perception created by this stunt. You know what stops uninformed emotional reactions? Transparency. Something Stern doesn't like at all. It isn't about the money, it is about intent. This isn't a did you buy it or didn't you buy it. This is essentially the split between pro/le/premium all over again just on a smaller scale. Some people won't care, some will. It's the state of consumerism. If the consumer feels they were duped, nothing short of some sort of action from the vendor is going to fix that feeling. Some random guy on the internet isn't going to make them see the UV light. If Stern doesn't address it in some manner, it basically makes everyone assume they were correct and that the intent wasn't to the benefit of the consumer.

Levi has won the Internet LOL

If that's where you are going to go, you may as well step back from the discussion.

ever or just today? forget that its the same number

why? The gameplay hasn't changed. Frankly that's what I care about the most!

You have low standards

I'm posting on pinside afterall

No one is trying to convince you to not buy it. We don't need to validate your purchase for you. Enjoy your game. Not everyone is going to agree. That's the way the world works. If you have even bothered to read anything people have stated, then there's no need for me to once again iterate why people have an issue with it because everyone has said it more than once, on more than just this forum. It doesn't matter if you think it's a valid concern or not, because just like you saying you like the game and no one is going to change your mind, you aren't going to change theirs.

Yeah, I know when I buy anything, the most important thing I’m thinking of is “transparency.”

I still won’t buy chef boy r Dee products because their web site refuses to divulge how many cans of beef a Roni annually.

Well it’s $8600 for one thing

I would buy a loaded Bricks for $3500. Lol

If pigs had wings they could fly

Boy that whole thing went over your head didn't it. Doesn't surprise me though.

I'm not trying to change anyones mind. I'm trying to understand how the game has changed.

It isn't about the game changing, that's never been what the negativity is about (for most people).

Post of the year right there. Maybe Choggard got hired by Sterns Marketing Dept.

I think one pinball podcaster slash pinball sales guy showed his true colors by posting a link to buy this mod, then spamming basically every single facebook pinball group with the same info! What Stern did here is a joke! They put blacklight paint into the playfield then after they shipped ALL OF THE LE's they announce this for sale! They knew going it this was going to happen so pay $9200 and you don't get a blacklight for that feature?

Stern has got into the mod business, they're making more money. Jersey Jack would never do such a thing. This is beyond even Stern.

But wait the games don't work the balls are getting stuck left and right why didn't they just take the time to fix that issue before ever trying to make a mod.

I guess they had to get the game on the line doesn't matter if the game works. I know of only one podcast that will call this issue straight down the middle!!!

$8900 if you want all the features.

Played an LE on route finally after getting a few days awhile back on a Pro. Balls kept getting stuck on the gate or under the demogorden, ball telekenis lock rejections non stop. Think it's been on route a week, very frustrating. I do like the projector on the spinner, that looks cool. This tech could be sweet for spinners and drops, things that take up a small aspect ratio.

Yes!!! How could i forget.

Bunch of Sad Sack haters from the Bricks thread as usual coming here to take their daily dumps. LOL . Nothing going on over there?

Ultimately, given the pricing of pinball now, I think that is going to be the big downside, just like with tiered gaming once it is 'accepted' it will continue on and on. Just like JJP higher prices made Stern see they could charge more, Stern making held back modding for the sake of cash flow an acceptable thing will carry over to other vendors eventually. The more people say 'oh it's not a big deal' the more shit like this happens and the higher sunken cost is, and the less value you get. For some unempathetic types with more money than maturity they won't understand why it upsets people. Fortunately, I've learned over the years, I don't need to have every piece of crap someone releases to be happy. It doesn't mean I want it creeping into the things I do want.

Some of us are just here to give you moral support for your bad decisions. (LOL)

Nothing.
No Vaginas on Sticks being turned into Bash Toys because they don't work as designed.
No 'Hidden Features' being offered at additional expense.

It's really just sad!

Oh they care - they just don't want to face that music. Your 'I dont care' is really 'I dont want to hear that'

What intent? That Stern has something to sell you? What world are you coming from where that's never been the intent? Did Stern tell you something different than "Here is my product, please buy it"?

Most certainly -- especially when they refuse to listen to someone trying to reason with them.

They are selling stuff... what 'benefit to the customer' were you expecting when a company offers you a product to buy?

I’ll have to watch the stream from the UV reveal and pay close attention to the spinner didn’t really notice that, wasn’t all that impressed with the ramp animations.

I do wonder what this game would have looked like/if it would have been a better effect during the upside down with a laser like the one in STLE instead of the projector.