(Topic ID: 257038)

Stern Stranger Things

By pinmister

1 year ago


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  • 7,151 posts
  • 646 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by Neonblack
  • Topic is favorited by 84 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Are you interested in a Stern Stranger Things pinball machine?”

  • Yes, I am interested if it plays well and has polished code 486 votes
    40%
  • No, I am not interested 439 votes
    36%
  • Maybe, not a huge fan of the franchise but maybe if it plays well 100 votes
    8%
  • I like pizza 202 votes
    16%

(1227 votes)

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Topic index (key posts)

13 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 7,151 posts in this topic. You are on page 131 of 144.
10
#6501 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

You serious? You already got boned for 9k, what's another 300? I wouldn't want this game without this mod.

Reverse this! He paid 9k. Jesus. It should be included. Holy shit. I think that’s what he is saying. Correct me if I’m wrong.

#6502 1 year ago

Here's a thought. What if your shooter rod in the future was tied to a PCB board that had interactive game function that was unlocked per user account...such as opening a diverter that allowed the ball to travel only one way (and not the skill shot route) unless it was subscribed and activated.. It already exists in the JP amber rod mod, everything but the account and hardware activity...That rod is tied to CN15, it's just not connected to a paywall. Yet Interactive hardware may become a rampant thing. Side armor and legs that reacts to gameplay and modes...Stern could develop an army of plug n play parts if people are willing to pay for them...all behind a sole user software account that renders the device useless upon resale...Hmmm the $$$$ that has yet to be made...

#6503 1 year ago

Not a ST fan at this point and after reading some of the posts I don’t have a negative reaction to Stern adding to the game. Probably would have made game reveal more interesting if this was included on the original release but if I was going to add this to collection it would be with all the bells and whistles.

17
#6504 1 year ago
Quoted from knockerlover:

Are you also going to hate on spooky for upcharging customers of the blood sucker LE edition for.. shaker, knocker, rgb lighting, painted coin door, dbv reader coin door, coin box and lid, butter cabinet, etc? I mean the shaker and knocker code is in the game AND they make you pay extra? #sarcasm

At least they let you know ahead of time .
Stern was sneaky
Spooky had a secret too . A FREE topper

10
#6505 1 year ago

I don't have an issue with the argument that the UV lights should have been included to enhance the value of the base game, but I do take issue with those who say things like,

"Stern is ripping us off..."

"This was originally planned to be included, but they pulled it to charge us extra..."

It doesn't matter if it was originally planned to be a standard feature or an addon. At the end of the day, you knew what you were getting when you bought the game, at that point you decided that the game with its included features was worth the amount they charged. You now have an option to buy an addon and you can decide whether or not it is worth the asking price. If you like it, buy it. If not, then pass. It really isn't something to grab your torches and pitchforks over.

#6506 1 year ago

Does seem that with internet connectivity in Turtles that a subscription model is coming.

That is a definite pass as far as I am concerned.

12
#6507 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Does seem that with internet connectivity in Turtles that a subscription model is coming.
That is a definite pass as far as I am concerned.

4 Turtles, 1st one is free, pay per character the other 3. It's going to happen.

#6508 1 year ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Does seem that with internet connectivity in Turtles that a subscription model is coming.
That is a definite pass as far as I am concerned.

If they want to go that route, Stern does have a potential business model and I would in fact be all for it.

Imagine if Stern got into the Virtual pinball biz? Not to replace existing mechanical pinball, but offer a Virtual pinball machine alongside the normal machines. To compete with the other virtual pin companies out there.

They could sell one generic virtual pinball cabinet- maybe different art variants, but the backglass and playfield is one big LCD that can be dynamically changed for whatever game you are using.

You could buy a "Stern PinPass" for X amount per month, and have unlimited access to their entire database of virtual pinball machines - like NetFlix for pinball.

It wont ever replace physical pinball and they already know that, as Virtual pin tech has been out for a while.

But keep DLC and subscriptions to that ... NOT physical pinball IMO.

#6509 1 year ago
Quoted from fooflighter:

4 Turtles, 1st one is free, pay per character the other 3. It's going to happen.

Omg. LAME if true.

#6510 1 year ago
Quoted from russdx:

And when selling a game it’s percentage of unlocked code will affect the price etc... like NIB will be vanilla but used might have more stuff unlocked etc... who knows what the future will bring. But totally agree many many More ways for them to make more money off these things.

Nah - Stern DLC will be account locked, not machine locked. So when you sell the machine the new the new buyer will have to buy all the DLC again.

Just like steam.

We are all really screwed. Fact is Stern can announce and ship in a week. No one else is doing that. JJP still not shipping some Wonka CE's ordered a year ago?? When you are dominating on supply, while competitors fail to deliver reasonably, it's time to milk the consumers while the tide in demand is highest.

Get your man boobs out. We're all going to get milked in 2020.

#6511 1 year ago
Quoted from kpg:

The higher tech pinball machines become, the more susceptible to depreciation they become. I think I can speak on behalf of many of us- the reason we fork over this kind of cash for a wooden box filled with lights, sounds, and mechanical toys is that we know we aren't really going to lose a ton of money when we're done with them. Gone are the days of appreciation for newer titles, but these aren't investments.
But will people be able to justify spending $9K on a machine that will be $5500 in 6 months or a year? The higher tech we go with these the more outdated they become as time goes on in my opinion. That is why old mobile phones, tablets, PCs etc go down in value. Stern is trying to act like a tech company right now. This move they just pulled is effectively going to kill the pinball market in the long term.
Which is why many of us are bitching about it. This isnt just another $279 bling upgrade. Its a sign of whats to come and THAT, my friends, is what is upsetting.

Not trying to nit pick, but you are comparing apples and oranges. Pinball is a single use device. A multi-use device like mobile phones, tablets or PC have planed obsolescence built in. As programs and tech change and evolve it requires new, more powerful, hardware, hence the steep depreciation of tech devices

If a tablet was sold exclusively with a single game on it and that was it's only purpose that would be more akin to a pinball machine.

But, I agree pinball is not an investment and I'm bit shocked that they are holding their value as well as they are, currently.

#6512 1 year ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Omg. LAME if true.

Just speculation on my part but the stage is being set

#6513 1 year ago

Seems to me like this might have blown over better if Stern had said something to the effect of:

"We printed the playfields with intent for a UV feature at release. 'Because Reasons' the other parts weren't ready then and we reduced the MSRP accordingly. The feature parts are now available, and to say thank you to previous purchasers for their support, LE buyers will receive the new update for free. Pro buyers can purchase the required parts for the special reduced price of ($discount, say 60% or whatever). Future builds will include the feature at a new MSRP of $280 more, starting on (date)."

The effect of such a plan would be:

- LE buyers get the feature they SHOULD have had from day one
- Previous Pro buyers can upgrade if they so choose at a special loyalty rate
- (Premium buyer rewards TBD? Free, or a 75% discount??)
- Because the Turbine of Bitching would still inevitably spool up regarding the MSRP increase, the "new date" gives prospects on the fence notice to pull the trigger on the current lower MSRP by the deadline, if they don't think the new feature's value-for-price is fair.
- All games after that date include the feature for a known upfront price.
- All builds after date should include the feature if Stern wants to save face and state confidence that the feature is truly "worth it" going forward; if it remained an option a low take rate would be bad and foment ill will as we are seeing.

I never took a marketing class and this seems like pretty basic customer relations 101.

#6514 1 year ago
Quoted from E_Gpinball:

I don't have an issue with the argument that the UV lights should have been included to enhance the value of the base game, but I do take issue with those who say things like,
"Stern is ripping us off..."
"This was originally planned to be included, but they pulled it to charge us extra..."
It doesn't matter if it was originally planned to be a standard feature or an addon. At the end of the day, you knew what you were getting when you bought the game, at that point you decided that the game with its included features was worth the amount they charged. You now have an option to buy an addon and you can decide whether or not it is worth the asking price. If you like it, buy it. If not, then pass. It really isn't something to grab your torches and pitchforks over.

I totally get what you're saying and for the most part agree, but:

A counter to this is that I believe a lot of people thought the upside down mode would get more work in future code updates because it was kind of underwhelming currently (a fact sort of acknowledged by Stern releasing this upgrade)-- now there is an improvement but it cost $300. I'm sure people are worried that the non-UV upside down might now get a short shrift too.

Also, speculation on what Stern would do for the upside down was one of the main talking points of the pin, if I recall right -- so it is an important part of the theme integration for people.

I don't think Stern is trying to rip people off here and I bet there's a story behind this, er, unique, upgrade but I get the emotional response from people with skin in the game.

#6515 1 year ago
Quoted from Lamprey:

Not trying to nit pick, but you are comparing apples and oranges. Pinball is a single use device. A multi-use device like mobile phones, tablets or PC have planed obsolescence built in. As programs and tech change and evolve it requires new, more powerful, hardware, hence the steep depreciation of tech devices
If a tablet was sold exclusively with a single game on it and that was it's only purpose that would be more akin to a pinball machine.
But, I agree pinball is not an investment and I'm bit shocked that they are holding their value as well as they are, currently.

You do make a good point.

But yeah one of the best parts of pinball is it is literally one of the only tech/electronic toys you can buy for this kind of money and not take a beating on resale later. If that wasn't the case, I am not sure i'd ever buy new pins and only buy old ones that hold their value for sure.

26
#6516 1 year ago

in the R&M thread, the ricks are making fun of the STH jerrys who are having to purchase and install lighting kits.

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#6517 1 year ago
Quoted from kpg:

You do make a good point.
But yeah one of the best parts of pinball is it is literally one of the only tech/electronic toys you can buy for this kind of money and not take a beating on resale later. If that wasn't the case, I am not sure i'd ever buy new pins and only buy old ones that hold their value for sure.

Fully agree.

People have been predicting a pinball market crash for years. I'd torn because I don't want to take a big hit on the value of my games, but it would be nice to by some older games for a more reasonable price.

#6518 1 year ago

I can see a not too distant future where you actually pay Stern to even play the game.

#6519 1 year ago

Well, if your a Stranger Things Owner, I feel like this forces you to buy the kit to complete the game. I'm really disappointed in Stern on this one, as it should have been a standard component in the game. This kit would have only complemented the projector more, and gave the Pro owners a very unique feature in their pinball line up. I'm more interested in the kit, than the projector.

#6520 1 year ago
Quoted from iloveplywood:

I totally get what you're saying and for the most part agree, but:
A counter to this is that I believe a lot of people thought the upside down mode would get more work in future code updates because it was kind of underwhelming currently (a fact sort of acknowledged by Stern releasing this upgrade)-- now there is an improvement but it cost $300. I'm sure people are worried that the non-UV upside down might now get a short shrift too.
Also, speculation on what Stern would do for the upside down was one of the main talking points of the pin, if I recall right -- so it is an important part of the theme integration for people.
I don't think Stern is trying to rip people off here and I bet there's a story behind this, er, unique, upgrade but I get the emotional response from people with skin in the game.

Upside down mode could have been an actual great opportunity for a halfway decent lower playfield, especially since the playfield is so open and sparse. It wouldnt get in the way of the projector either.

It could have been under the playfield, but tilted opposite of the table.. as in the ball rolls UP the playfield and the flippers are on the Top.. so you are essentially hitting the balls toward you. The lights could go UV and the under playfield only lights up during this. Maybe a killer intro music and sound effect to go with it.

Kind of like the virtual pinball version shown here

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#6521 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

You serious? You already got boned for 9k, what's another 300? I wouldn't want this game without this mod.

Yes I'm serious, I can afford it, that's not the issue. It's the principle. This really shows the direction of stern's continued trend in business practices, cheaper and cheaper, nickle and dime, and now this DLC-type "accessory". I also am (was) a buyer of pretty much every brand new stern that comes out NIB. I'm not going to do that anymore either, unless the pin is something really special. So realistically instead of buying 3-4 sterns per year I might only buy 1 now?

-7
#6522 1 year ago

Just buy pinstadiums they just announced hes been working on a uv reveal for the game at the price of sterns bullshit upgrade just buy the pinstadium light they cover the whole playfield too not just the middle and the lights aren't shining in your face

#6523 1 year ago
Quoted from Rob-T-800:

Just buy pinstadiums they just announced hes been working on a uv reveal for the game at the price of sterns bullshit upgrade just buy the pinstadium light they cover the whole playfield too not just the middle and the lights aren't shining in your face

It's not that simple. Pinstadiums aren't going to be interactive with the pin and code. They are just going to be "always on" or maybe tie into a flasher at best. Completely different.

10
#6524 1 year ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

an exclusive feature of the LE and should not be available to premium and pro owners

They should have made this a standard feature across all three versions. This feature costs ALMOST NOTHING to manufacture. Those LEDs are pennies, and the plastics cost virtually nothing. The PCB that drives this stuff probably costs around $2 or so to realize (in quantity). A replacement apron is probably the highest cost item in the kit ... the one that comes with the game becomes landfill material once the new one is installed (aprons cost virtually nothing in the quantities Stern buys).

I think they screwed the pooch doing this. If I were Stern, I'd put this add-on in all games that are shipped from this point forward and make things right with people that don't have this feature. This feature is way too tightly coupled to both the gameplay and the overall Stranger Things story. The person that came up with the idea for a kit like this needs to be fired.

#6525 1 year ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

It's not that simple. Pinstadiums aren't going to be interactive with the pin and code. They are just going to be "always on" or maybe tie into a flasher at best. Completely different.

I connected my pinstadium to my shaker motor on my ACNC and the UV hits at all the right times. I would speculate that you could tap the pinstadium into whatever wiring initiates that mode. Maybe..

#6526 1 year ago
Quoted from FYMF:

I connected my pinstadium to my shaker motor and the UV hits at all the right times. I would speculate that you could tap the pinstadium into whatever wiring initiates that mode. Maybe..

The shaker isn't running the entire time you're in upside down mode, etc.

#6527 1 year ago
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#6528 1 year ago
Quoted from FYMF:

I connected my pinstadium to my shaker motor and the UV hits at all the right times. I would speculate that you could tap the pinstadium into whatever wiring initiates that mode. Maybe..

Still - for the full effect you want all the UV plastics!

#6529 1 year ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

Yes I'm serious, I can afford it, that's not the issue. It's the principle. This really shows the direction of stern's continued trend in business practices, cheaper and cheaper, nickle and dime, and now this DLC-type "accessory". I also am (was) a buyer of pretty much every brand new stern that comes out NIB. I'm not going to do that anymore either, unless the pin is something really special. So realistically instead of buying 3-4 sterns per year I might only buy 1 now?

Lol I'm just messing with ya dude.

#6530 1 year ago
Quoted from pipes:

Can't wait to see what Stern has up their sleeves with internet connectivity....lol, what a gong show that's going to be.

If internet connectivity = cash grabs like $280 UV lighting, I can almost guarantee you it'll be working flawlessly on day one ... at least the cash grab portion will be rigorously tested ... things players might like that Stern will be gracious enough to provide for free (like leaderboard tables as a for instance) will require "years to perfect".

#6531 1 year ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Lol I'm just messing with ya dude.

Dammit I should have known. :p

#6532 1 year ago
Quoted from f3honda4me:

It's not that simple. Pinstadiums aren't going to be interactive with the pin and code. They are just going to be "always on" or maybe tie into a flasher at best. Completely different.

Screenshot_20200213-111307_Samsung Internet (resized).jpg
#6533 1 year ago

Stern can't even figure out how to read their emails...what makes you think they can actually roll out an elaborate DLC system? This is the same company that sent Stranger Things out with a ball stop post that fails immediately. You guys have way too much confidence in Uncle Gary.

#6534 1 year ago
Quoted from Rob-T-800:

[quoted image]

I don't really get what this means. :p

#6535 1 year ago
Quoted from russdx:

And when selling a game it’s percentage of unlocked code will affect the price etc...

Do you think they'll let you transfer the unlocked code to another buyer? I doubt they'll make that mistake. They'll probably have you make an account ... kind of like the Playstation or Xbox stores. The unlocked code will be bound to your account. All of your DLC will be non-transferrable.

That's the way I'd do it if I wanted to milk every last dollar out of something.

-1
#6536 1 year ago

280 bucks in pinball dollars is like two dollars and eighty cents.

What's the problem?

#6537 1 year ago
Quoted from Bwilson:

280 bucks in pinball dollars is like two dollars and eighty cents.
What's the problem?

It’s the principle of the matter here.

#6538 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinball-Obsessed:

It’s the principle of the matter here.

I know, just being a smart ass.

I honestly wish I could buy more NIB Sterns but I stopped 4 years ago after GB and the chipping PFs etc. and never looked back.

It's pretty freaking sad this isn't included with the LEs at the very least I completely agree with the backlash here but...

It's pinball man and this hobby is expensive part of the reason I've been standing on the sidelines for while now.

No surprise everyone is in on the money grab right now. Hell look at R&M that fing thing sold out before anyone ever played it!!! InsanE!!!

#6539 1 year ago

hold the line, thats right, dont buy an le unless it comes with the UV light kit. if everyone gets together and does this i am sure they will have to throw it in. this will never happen though. its a shame cause when people come together alot of change can happen.

#6540 1 year ago
Quoted from Bwilson:

I know, just being a smart ass.
I honestly wish I could buy more NIB Sterns but I stopped 4 years ago after GB and the chipping PFs etc. and never looked back.
It's pretty freaking sad this isn't included with the LEs at the very least I completely agree with the backlash here but...
It's pinball man and this hobby is expensive part of the reason I've been standing on the sidelines for while now.
No surprise everyone is in on the money grab right now. Hell look at R&M that fing thing sold out before anyone ever played it!!! InsanE!!!

Yep this is sad for all us that love pinball!

Not the end of the world but it’s definitely not a step in the right direction either.

On the bright side, for me at least, I’m lucky to be in on the RM pin!

#6541 1 year ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

in the R&M thread, the ricks are making fun of the STH jerrys who are having to purchase and install lighting kits.[quoted image]

I'm sure they are....

#6542 1 year ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I don't think I've ever seen a more "This food is terrible...and such small portions!!!" meltdown thread in the history of this place, and that's saying something. A bunch of people who think this game blows and have pledged to never buy a Stern again whining about something they don't need, don't want, and allegedly aren't buying, "white knighting" in the parlance of our times for the people who are.
And yet the game is selling. Just like the last outrage, the shitty Star Wars Topper nobody is going to buy that they literally can't keep in stock.
It's been alleged by Yancy that I masturbate to Stern offerings, which is pretty silly since everybody knows Stern cabinet decals disintegrate at the mere touch of semen and I'd never do anything to expose yet another Stern QC issue.
But if these outrage threads aren't messy circle jerks I honestly have no idea what is. As Rodney Dangerfield claims to have said first...get a room guys!

I think this trick from Stern is beyond even your schill skills Levi. Maybe time to look for a new job?? I hear Deeproot are paying the big $$$.

#6543 1 year ago
Quoted from robotron:

hold the line, thats right, dont buy an le unless it comes with the UV light kit. if everyone gets together and does this i am sure they will have to throw it in. this will never happen though. its a shame cause when people come together alot of change can happen.

You never struck me as a union guy.

#6544 1 year ago

I hope stern comes out with more surprises, this game keeps getting better and better.

#6545 1 year ago
Quoted from greenhornet:

in the R&M thread, the ricks are making fun of the STH jerrys who are having to purchase and install lighting kits.[quoted image]

Lol. That’s hilarious. Where is Bricks?

Come on Stern, where is my JP shooter rod!!!

You evil money making bastards. Lol

#6546 1 year ago
Quoted from mzhulk:

I hope stern comes out with more surprises

10k by xmas.

#6547 1 year ago
Quoted from mzhulk:

I hope stern comes out with more surprises, this game keeps getting better and better.

Maybe there is a hidden opening for the ball to travel down the rabbit hole for another $179. You'd be shipped the secret under-playfield subway kit. Don't worry about software, it is already part of the code and set to on.

#6548 1 year ago

Just catching up here...

Was the UV printing and upgrade NOT revealed first to the Stern Insider members / buyers?!!

#6549 1 year ago
Quoted from notaflyingtoy:

Just catching up here...
Was the UV printing and upgrade NOT revealed first to the Stern Insider members / buyers?!!

Nope.

They knew exactly what they were doing.

Withholding a key feature to upsell it after the fact. Everyone purchases and owns the UV ink on their playfield, code that allows it to function, and the missing holes and other places for these missing parts.

Then Stern graciously allows you the opportunity to purchase the remainder of missing pieces from your game post-sale.

How nice of them.

11
#6550 1 year ago

Stranger Things - The Good - The Bad - and the Ugly

After playing the PRO and the PRO only I said right here that the game overall was a cash grab, that little to no effort was put into the game to create the theme from the show. As people debating if the projector would or wouldn't work I said it would work but those types of projectors would lose their brightness over time. The real focus should be on is this or isn't this a good game!

So despite bashing the game, and well a game that has now fallen all the way to 258 in the ratings I will list the good the bad and the really ugly about this game and stern in general.

I got an LE because of the THEME! Theme to me is everything in pinball and because I have one of the WORLDS biggest haunted houses, and at the exit we have all types of horror themed games. I dont 'think Munsters is a very good game (great artwork) but the game itself is boring. I bought that as well because of theme. I don't care about the current value of Munsters (a lot less than I paid) because I'm not selling it today or ever.

Moving on... THE GOOD!

The LE is way better than the PRO by a long shot. In the case of a game like Deadpool I don't see a true reason not to go with the PRO, same with many Stern games. But in the case of Stranger Things you need a Premium or an LE because the projector MOD is amazing. It gives a pinball game an entire new look. This new mod is GOOD for pinball because it means someone is thinking outside the box and honestly I hope someone does it again!

Turning the entire playfield into a blacklight look is amazing even though it should have BEEN INCLUDED with an LE... that is ridiculous! Still shows Stern really thinking outside the box (GOOD). The Ball Lock is really clever again PROPS to Stern. So in short the GOOD is Stern really did try to create something here that was TOTALLY different. I give them two thumbs up!

THE BAD:

Stern should have added more toys especially on the LE... the flashers could have vine covers, it could use a demi dog or something anything. I think so much was put into the main feature they forgot about the rest of the game. This is the bad. Even with all this I like the game I think its actually pretty cool innovative and think mod companies will make up the difference. So I like the game UNTIL WE GET TO THE UGLY!

The UGLY:

NOW THIS IS WHERE THE REAL UGLY KICKS IN... forget the fact that Stern knew about the Blacklight Mod, and didn't include it on the LE because honestly that is HORRIBLE OF THEM! Forget the fact that I got my game and had to take it apart because the project cords aren't even plugged in... SAD but true.

The real UGLY is this game shouldn't have EVER made it out of the factory and into your HOMES! The game simply doesn't WORK!

1) Ugly #1: You can activate a fight with the demi monster my game goes under that mech but comes back adn the drop targets are up catching the ball. The ramp comes down and can't because its hitting the ball, then you shoot balls at a ramp that is about 1/2 inch off the playfield. I'm sure the motor is also straining to get the ramp all the way down. A SERIOUS FLAW they should have fixed before shipping a single game.

2) Ugly #2: I haven't been able to play EVEN ONE SINGLE GAME NOT ONE without the ball getting lost behind the main feature. The machine then takes about 2 minutes trying to find it while you sit there. Then the game says the HELL WITH IT... you LOSE that ball and if that was your 3rd ball the game is over. Then the next game you knock that stuck ball out now you have two balls flying around you drain the first one and obviously your flippers get shut down. I even played one game where TWO BALLS got lost so both got knocked free from playing the game. THIS IS JUST UGLY!

There is NO WAY IN HELL that Stern didn't know this was a problem!!!!!!!!!!!! I talked to other people having the same exact problem.

I had this same exact problem on Elvira we had to remove parts to fix that issue.

As I said before and I will say again... STERN IS NOT THE BEST PINBALL COMPANY THEY'RE JUST THE QUICKEST TO MARKET!

So okay I'll add more UGLY... you pay $9200 for the game, no topper, no toys, not even this blacklight mod are you kidding me plus the game doesn't even WORK!

I WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER STERN GAME until they address these issues. I'm done with Stern. Elvira had a ton of problems and so does this one... do they even CARE ANYMORE?

They knew this game had these issues they should have SPENT ANOTHER however many months to FIX IT but no they shipped it anyway.

Sad day for Stern!

BTW I'm PISSED AT JJP as well (LOL)... Why haven't you released GNR there has never been a more perfect time than RIGHT NOW to stomp all over Stern. But wait ... maybe its because when JJP releases a game it comes more or less fully coded. Maybe they just want their game to be done when a consumer buys the game. Just maybe.
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