(Topic ID: 86578)

Stern Stars - Tech Trouble - Help Needed

By Pauz21

10 years ago


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  • 21 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by wayout440
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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  • Stars Stern Electronics, 1978

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#1 10 years ago

Hi all... would appreciate some tech help here with my Stars. Bought it a couple weeks ago and it wasn't working.

(Apologize for any wrong terminology, I'm pretty green when it comes to electronics work)

When I go it I noticed right away there was a jumper wire soldered from the ground post on the out hole coil to the ground post on the left drop target coil. Then another jumper from that post to the ground post on the right drop target coil.

I removed the obvious hack in the outhole to drop target wire, replaced the fuses and gave it a try. The game fired up but the outhole coil wasn't working.

So out of curiousity I tacked the hack wire back on and everything worked as it should. (Display is a little flickery) but game play appeared to be good. This worked for a couple days then it quit booting up. (Was only getting 5 out of 7 lights on the boot up sequence).

Some investigating revealed that the coil fuse was blowing on the bridge rectifier instantly on power up. So I assumed it was connected to these goofy hack. So I removed both... the outhole to drop target and the drop target to drop target wire. I then traced the ground wires for all 3 coils back to the power supply. I check continuity in all 3 wires and the wires appear to be good all the way from coil to power supply.

The two drop target ground wires go to the J5 plug on the power supply while the outhole ground goes to the J1 plug on the power supply.

Anyway... after removing the hacks I replaced ALL fuses with the proper sizes just to start fresh and booted it up. Everything boots properly.

BUT... the outhole coil is still dead. And the RIGHT drop target coil is stuck energized. Not 100% sure if the LEFT drop target coil is working at all as I powered down right away.

Little unsure where to go from here but here's a couple other things to note:
On the Power supply there is a diode (CR3) and a resistor (R16) that appear to be missing. Not sure why those have been clipped out. Could that be for a reason or should those be replaced before I go any further?

I'm guessing there are some transistors blown but I'm not really sure how to test them.

Included a power supply pic for reference.

Appreciate any help.

Some other little things... My chimes are missing a lot of spaces. Various things have been improvised but they don't sound great. Where can I find replacement spacers. Also need a pop bumper cap. (Assembly has a loose bulb socket too... pretty flickery). Also have a broken white "Stern" plastic in the top left orbit.Photo on 14-04-05 at 9.02 AM.jpgPhoto on 14-04-05 at 9.02 AM.jpg

#2 10 years ago

That looks from the pic like it might be an original filter cap. That driver board probably needs "overhauled" (filter caps replaced, performance modification such as ground and power modifications, repinning). All the transistors should be checked as well. Also looking at the pic, appears you have a broken wire there.

You should probably go through the rectifier board thoroughly and check those voltages too.

There's a comprehensive article on the subject of getting newly aquired games back in shape that I would advise to read through. http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm

#3 10 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

There's a comprehensive article on the subject of getting newly aquired games back in shape that I would advise to read through. http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm

Good stuff in that link for sure.

You can see what happens to those old caps here:

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-quick-bally-driver-board-repair-bulletproofing

#4 10 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

That looks from the pic like it might be an original filter cap. That driver board probably needs "overhauled" (filter caps replaced, performance modification such as ground and power modifications, repinning). All the transistors should be checked as well. Also looking at the pic, appears you have a broken wire there.
You should probably go through the rectifier board thoroughly and check those voltages too.
There's a comprehensive article on the subject of getting newly aquired games back in shape that I would advise to read through. http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm

Thanks for the link. Not sure where you're seeing a broken wire but I'm not seeing the same.

#5 10 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

That looks from the pic like it might be an original filter cap. That driver board probably needs "overhauled" (filter caps replaced, performance modification such as ground and power modifications, repinning). All the transistors should be checked as well. Also looking at the pic, appears you have a broken wire there.
You should probably go through the rectifier board thoroughly and check those voltages too.
There's a comprehensive article on the subject of getting newly aquired games back in shape that I would advise to read through. http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm

One other quick question... I was testing the transistors by putting one probe on the metal tab, the other on ground. But have been reading that's not the proper way to test those transistors. How do I test these one's properly.

#6 10 years ago

Looks like the board is missing Q4 besides the diode and resistor you mentioned. Q4 is the driver transistor for the outhole coil. CR3 and R16 are for the knocker, yes you'll need to replace those if you want the knocker to work.

Q14 (right drop target) is probably shorted and you should replace CR14 at the same time.

#7 10 years ago

Q4 is there (it's the black one) but you're on to something there. Q4 has obviously been replaced and looking at the back of it, looks like it's a pretty brutal solder job.

And you saying CR3 and R16 are for the knocker makes sense because now that you mention it that doesn't work either.

Can I ask where you're getting your info for what is for what? You have the schematic for this game?

This is great info. Thanks. What's the best way to test this type of transistor and can I do it with the power supply completely disconnected and free of the game.

#8 10 years ago

Yes, I'm looking at the schematics. They are available on ipdb. You can test with power off, no need to disconnect anything. Meter on ohms, test from center pin to each of the other pins. If you get a short either way the transistor is bad. If the transistor shorts the diode can be stressed and should be replaced too.

#9 10 years ago
Quoted from Pauz21:

Can I ask where you're getting your info for what is for what? You have the schematic for this game?

http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/2366/Stern_1978_Stars_Manual.pdf

#10 10 years ago

Update:

All caps and diodes tested good. All transistors except for q14 tested good. I replaced the missing diode and resistor as well as replaced the trashed q14 transistor.

Also cleaned up some really bad solder work from a previous owner.

Fired it up. Knocker works. Right side drop target coil works.

Out hole still dead. So is the left drop target coil. Coils are tested and aren't shorted out.

Also one other weird thing I noticed... Sometimes when I push the flippers there is scoring happening. Obviously that ain't right. Where's the next turn? Driver board?

#11 10 years ago

The scoring from the flippers is maybe a point switch set a little too tight and closing from the flipper vibration. You can narrow it down by knowing which points score - 10's 100's 1000's etc.

#12 10 years ago
Quoted from WOLF:

The scoring from the flippers is maybe a point switch set a little too tight and closing from the flipper vibration. You can narrow it down by knowing which points score - 10's 100's 1000's etc.

Yeah I wondered about that. Kinda thinking it might be the bottom roll over target in the centre. think the spring is shot so it's just sort of resting on the switch.

#13 10 years ago

Have you gone through the coil self test? Same two coils not work there? On a complete cycle through all solenoids, any of them repeat?

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Have you gone through the coil self test? Same two coils not work there? On a complete cycle through all solenoids, any of them repeat?

Yup. No repeats. And those two coils out. Did find two finicky switches which probably explains the flippers scoring points thru vibration.

Was reading the document that wayout posted and it talks about intentionally shorting coils out on the side rail to see if they fire. I tried that and I'm getting a measurement of 96 volts but the coils still aren't firing. That to me suggests two dead coils but when I test the resistance in these coils I'm sure they're still good.

#15 10 years ago
Quoted from Pauz21:

Yup. No repeats. And those two coils out. Did find two finicky switches which probably explains the flippers scoring points thru vibration.
Was reading the document that wayout posted and it talks about intentionally shorting coils out on the side rail to see if they fire. I tried that and I'm getting a measurement of 96 volts but the coils still aren't firing. That to me suggests two dead coils but when I test the resistance in these coils I'm sure they're still good.

Your side rail may not be attached to ground or ground braid broken. Use a long lead alligator clip from your meter to attach it to a verified good ground such as your backbox screws for the boards. Check all your ground braids and find out where they might be broken and repair them. You will often find them not attached/broken in the backbox and from the cab to the coin door.

My earlier post on the broken wire. Turns out my eysight is bad, the yellow on the black yellow striped wire made it look open.

#16 10 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

That looks from the pic like it might be an original filter cap. That driver board probably needs "overhauled" (filter caps replaced, performance modification such as ground and power modifications, repinning). All the transistors should be checked as well. Also looking at the pic, appears you have a broken wire there.
You should probably go through the rectifier board thoroughly and check those voltages too.
There's a comprehensive article on the subject of getting newly aquired games back in shape that I would advise to read through. http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/ballyss/rep/index1.htm

Still looking for some answers on my coil issue. I have voltage on both the outhole coil and the left drop target coil but not working. Read over the document quoted and did the tests. Just one thing funny but it's the same on the coils that are working.

Please read below and offer me any advice you can.

From the Document you attached: (RE: My 2 coils not working)

Testing for Power at the Coil.
If a coil doesn't work, and the transistor is good, test for power at the coil. Do this with the game on and in attract mode, and the playfield lifted.

Put your DMM on DC voltage (100 volt range).
Put the black lead on the metal side rail (ground) of the game.
Put the red lead on either terminal of the coil. It should read about 43 volts. On flipper coils, any of the three terminals should also read about 43 volts.
If you are missing voltage at the coil, check for a broken wire/connector, or blown playfield fuse (see below). Remember the power wires are "daisy changed" together. So a break in the power wire in a previous coil will cause the coils further down the line to not work.

***** I'm getting 97.4 Volts on all coils, working or not *****

Testing a Coil.
You can also test a coil for proper operation. With the game on and in attract mode, and the playfield lifted, try this:

Connect one end of a alligator clip and wire to the metal side rail of the game.
Momentarily touch the other end of the alligator clip to the coil's terminal with the non-banded side of the diode connected to it.
The coil should fire.
Note if you accidentally touch the banded side of the diode to ground, you will probably blow a fuse.
If the coil doesn't fire, you have a damaged coil or no power at the coil. Look for a broken wire going to the coil's terminal. You can also test the resistance of a coil. A good coil should be in the 3 to 15 ohm range.

****Tested both this way and they both fire ****

Check TP5 on the power supply for 43 volts. If no voltage, check fuse F4 on the power supply.
Check solenoid driver board for +5 volts at TP3 on the driver board. If no voltage here, check for a broken jumper on connector J3 from pin 13 to pin 25.

**** TP3 Tests 10.4. TP5 Test 30.5

Under the playfield, check for a broken yellow wire from coil to coil. This is the coil power wire, and it daisy chains from one coil to another. A break in this wire will stop power from getting to coils "down stream".

***** I have voltage on all coils, working or not. This isn't the problem *****

#17 10 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Your side rail may not be attached to ground or ground braid broken. Use a long lead alligator clip from your meter to attach it to a verified good ground such as your backbox screws for the boards. Check all your ground braids and find out where they might be broken and repair them. You will often find them not attached/broken in the backbox and from the cab to the coin door.
My earlier post on the broken wire. Turns out my eysight is bad, the yellow on the black yellow striped wire made it look open.

I Take it back... I'm an idiot. Ground is fine... coils tested fine when you do this the right way. Please see my post right above this one with further tests and one oddity from the article.

#18 10 years ago

Based on my voltage issues I've now turned my attention to the bridget rectifier which I suspect is causing some of the problem.

#19 10 years ago

Test your wiring from backbox to coil by connecting one end of an alligator clip to the ground braid in the backbox and then touch the other end to the tabs of Q4 and Q13. Both coils should fire. If not, then you have to find the break in the connection between the transistor and the coil.

#20 10 years ago

Working on Power issues first. Coils are testing double what they should be. TP2 on the Bridge is supposed to be just over 200V... it's testing nearly 500V! Starting to think it's a transformer issue as the bridge looks pretty good when I pulled it off...but been busy with work lately and haven't been working on it.

Test points on the Bridge Rectifier are as follows:
(With power board attached)

Tp1 - 11.3-12v (Should be 4.6-6.2)
Tp2 - 451-461v (Should be 203-257)
Tp3 - 30.2-30.5 (Should be 10.5-13.3)
Tp4 - 6.3 (should be 6.4-8.2)
Tp5 - 97.4-97.7 (Should be 47.6-48.4)

In my lack of wisdom I just discovered there's a voltage regulator dial on the power supply board but I'm reading that only adjusts the display power. That's great cause I believe that's the voltage on Tp2 but doesn't help with with all the others. Haven't been able to test that as I've currently got my bridge rectifier removed.

#21 10 years ago
Quoted from Pauz21:

Working on Power issues first. Coils are testing double what they should be. TP2 on the Bridge is supposed to be just over 200V... it's testing nearly 500V! Starting to think it's a transformer issue as the bridge looks pretty good when I pulled it off...but been busy with work lately and haven't been working on it.
Test points on the Bridge Rectifier are as follows:
(With power board attached)
Tp1 - 11.3-12v (Should be 4.6-6.2)
Tp2 - 451-461v (Should be 203-257)
Tp3 - 30.2-30.5 (Should be 10.5-13.3)
Tp4 - 6.3 (should be 6.4-8.2)
Tp5 - 97.4-97.7 (Should be 47.6-48.4)
In my lack of wisdom I just discovered there's a voltage regulator dial on the power supply board but I'm reading that only adjusts the display power. That's great cause I believe that's the voltage on Tp2 but doesn't help with with all the others. Haven't been able to test that as I've currently got my bridge rectifier removed.

Hmmm, that's not good. I would start by checking the transformer wiring and outputs. Page 2 of the manual figure #1 shows the transformer wiring setup. Make sure Lugs 1 & 3 are jumpered, and one of the other two: 5&7 for 120VAC input or 9&11 for 115VAC. Check your AC input line voltage.

Next, check your transformer secondary windings. Across R3 you should have something around 49VAC (pins 2-6 on the xfmr output). Pins 8-10 173VAC, 17-18 7.3VAC, 13-14 7.8VAC, 15-16 12VAC. Refer to power transformer module schematic page in the manual. There is also a table on the right hand side of the page that shows the strapping for the power line connections based on whatever mains power you are supplying to the input.

Once we verify what you got with the transformer and if it is sound, then we can move to the power supply rectification.

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