Grimsby, ON
Not sure if anyone else noticed but star trek is remarkably similar in layout to T2.
Remove the cannon add a flipper and a ramp shot from there and you have pretty much the same machine.
(Topic ID: 62889)
Linked Games
Star Trek (LE)
Stern, 2013-
Star Trek (Premium)
Stern, 2013
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Star Trek (Pro)
Stern, 2013
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Terminator 2: Judgment Day
Williams, 1991
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Lake Charles, LA
Quoted from spfxted:I'll trade my T2 for a Star Trek
(and, no...not the Bally)
Quoted from The_Director:I'll be glad when all the Star Trek BS dies down.
Once we see gameplay, we'll know one way or the other if something's there... 
Quoted from erak:Not sure if anyone else noticed but
Star Trekany fan pattern is remarkably similar in layout toT2any fan pattern.
Remove thecannon add a flipper and a ramp shotthing that makes them different from each other and from there and you have pretty much the same machine.
T, FTFY
Didn't this same trope get trotted out about AC/DC?
Just saying. Even the 3 targets on the right side are in the same place. The left ball lock/kickout hole in the same spot. Pop bumpers are in the same spot. Even the one target by the bottom pop is in the same spot. Just the other two are removed. Ramps/return lanes. Fan layout or not, its not much different than T2.
Not bashing the pin. Yes it is a fan layout but not all fan layouts are the same. And in this case it is.
The two layouts are nothing alike. 2 ramps / 2 flippers vs. 3 ramps / 3 flippers? The only things they have in common are a few Steve Richie signatures which are very nice:
1. Dead-end shot on the left (same as NF).
2. Orbit shots, 2 of them.
I happen to think ST has the best Steve Ritchie layout to date.
Quoted from The_Director:I could care less.
How much?
2 weeks later
So, I got the chance to play the pro version today at a local retailer. And I have to say that since I own a T2 the gameplay is very very similar. Yes the 3rd flipper and extra ramp add something more. Basically the cannon shot into a ramp while the ball is in play from a flipper, rather than a cannon lock and target shot. It is basically the same game, but....The rules make all the difference as star trek is obviously more complex as far as rules and modes go. But the flow of the game feels like T2. Right down to the ball dribble on the left of the bottom pop bumper. But this time its a magnet lock rather than kickout hole, and the orbit and the ramp shots from side to side have the same flow. And that a good thing. Star Trek is most definitely an improved tweaked version of T2. Just as T2 was an improved version of firepower. Overall impressions probably the best stern yet. Great lightshow neat toys and good ruleset and great flow.
However the only gripe is I just wish that the stern cabinets felt more solid at the flippers instead of that hollow feeling. And the plastics were made to look higher quality. But that has all been said before and beat to death.
But great Steve Richie game!
Quoted from erak:Not sure if anyone else noticed but Star Trek is remarkably similar in layout to T2.
Remove the cannon add a flipper and a ramp shot from there and you have pretty much the same machine.
The same can be said for any "fan" playfield layout. If you just remove this, then put that there, then rearrange that, then add this. Of course if you did all that it would look the same. You would have to add a third ramp too.
Quoted from erak:Not sure if anyone else noticed but Star Trek is remarkably similar in layout to T2.
Remove the cannon add a flipper and a ramp shot from there and you have pretty much the same machine.
Is this a joke? The games are nothing alike. The center of T2 is a set of 3 stand up targets with pop bumpers behind them. That's a horrible center shot and sends the ball towards the left outlane on almost every shot. The center of Star trek is a nice magnet toy. T2 has 2 ramps, Star trek has 3 ramps. Star trek has a 3rd flipper which makes a huge difference.
ACDC is much more similar to T2. Star trek is more similar to spiderman. But even spiderman and star trek play quite a bit different due to the wider ramps in star trek and narrower / higher shots in spiderman. And T2 is a slow-poke of a game compared to either of these.
Quoted from markmon:T2 has 2 ramps, so does Star Trek.
Doesn't Star Trek have three ramps??
When I first saw Star Trek, I immediately thought it looked like Spiderman. However, I have a JP and a Frankenstein, which have a very similar layout also, and they play nothing alike. I agree there is only so much you can do with a fan layout. Hope to get to play a Star Trek someday and see how it compares to my Spidey.
Quoted from QuarterGrabber:Doesn't Star Trek have three ramps??
Oh, sorry, you're right there. I'll edit my post.
Quoted from Rarehero:OMG all these games have 2 slings and 2 flippers at the bottom and 3 bumpers and the same silver balls bouncing around... THEY'RE ALL THE SAAAAAME!!!!!
Ah man, too funny 
.
Quoted from Rarehero:OMG all these games have 2 slings and 2 flippers at the bottom and 3 bumpers and the same silver balls bouncing around... THEY'RE ALL THE SAAAAAME!!!!!
OMG there is going to be anarchy
I guess you can't compare games based on your personal opinion /observations and actually playing / owning them without getting bashed even though you say its a great game. (Some only read what they want to hear or don't want to hear) I can't wait until there is a Steve Richie interview where he mentions T2 as his inspiration for Star Trek.
So...Star Trek is T2 with a magnet, no cannon a third flipper and an extra ramp. Obviously more rules as I stated before. Just as T2 is Firepower with 2 ramps added and one less pop bumper and a cannon and more rules. Steve Richie himself has stated T2 is an improved firepower. Look it up on the pinball database. Compare playfield pics, look at targets ramp and lane locations most only slightly adjusted or exactly the same. Judge for yourself, play them. Also just to be clear I like them all! I left pinside for awhile. I remember why. LOL
Popcorn ready!
Quoted from TomGWI:Wow even the shooter lanes look similar. I can't believe there isn't a T2 head in ST.
But if you just remove the ship then place a T2 head in it's place there will be. See they are so similar, they both have T2 heads.
Quoted from QuarterGrabber:But if you just remove the ship then place a T2 head in it's place there will be. See they are so similar, they both have T2 heads.
Amazing. 
Maybe the next Stern game will look like Captain Fantastic.
How many games look like WOF or 24?
Quoted from TomGWI:Amazing.
Maybe the next Stern game will look like Captain Fantastic.
How many games look like WOF or 24?
I think Family Guy looks a lot like WOZ. They both have upper playfields
Quoted from TomGWI:Ah yes. More like TFLE and WOZ. They both have 2 mini playfields.
Wait Embryon and WOZ are both wide bodies. If you stick a LCD in Embryon, you basically have WOZ.
Man I wish I wasn't drinking when I read that. My keyboard is soaked, now I need a new one. LMFAO!!
Quoted from erak:I guess you can't compare games based on your personal opinion /observations and actually playing / owning them without getting bashed even though you say its a great game. (Some only read what they want to hear or don't want to hear) I can't wait until there is a Steve Richie interview where he mentions T2 as his inspiration for Star Trek.
So...Star Trek is T2 with a magnet, no cannon a third flipper and an extra ramp. Obviously more rules as I stated before. Just as T2 is Firepower with 2 ramps added and one less pop bumper and a cannon and more rules. Steve Richie himself has stated T2 is an improved firepower. Look it up on the pinball database. Compare playfield pics, look at targets ramp and lane locations most only slightly adjusted or exactly the same. Judge for yourself, play them. Also just to be clear I like them all! I left pinside for awhile. I remember why. LOL
Popcorn ready!
There are a lot of similarities of course but you can take quite a few games in the last 20 years and make the same comparison.
Quoted from TomGWI:There are a lot of similarities of course but you can take quite a few games in the last 20 years and make the same comparison.
I agree, but they are not the same designers pins. Not bashing Steve Richie by any means I know thats part of his style. And if the layout formula works, why not improve on it. T2 is a great machine and after playing Star Trek today its an improvement on a tested formula for sure. It plays very similar in shots and flow. In fact at times I forgot that 3rd flipper was there and the extra ramp and it felt just like my T2 at home. When I got multiball going and locked a ball in the magnet I was expecting the cannon jackpot shot. I'm totally serious.
Just can't understand the freaking out over comparing a great classic game to a new one by the same designer.
I can honestly look at the playfirld on star trek and only notice 6 things different about the layout besides the inserts.(not counting those, nothing to do with kinetics/flow)
I can notice 100 things the same.
Quoted from erak:I agree, but they are not the same designers pins. Not bashing Steve Richie by any means I know thats part of his style. And if the layout formula works, why not improve on it. T2 is a great machine and after playing Star Trek today its an improvement on a tested formula for sure. It plays very similar in shots and flow. In fact at times I forgot that 3rd flipper was there and the extra ramp and it felt just like my T2 at home. When I got multiball going and locked a ball in the magnet I was expecting the cannon jackpot shot. I'm totally serious.
Just can't understand the freaking out over comparing a great classic game to a new one by the same designer.
I can honestly look at the playfirld on Star Trek and only notice 6 things different about the layout besides the inserts.(not counting those, nothing to do with kinetics/flow)
I can notice 100 things the same.
You can look at any game and find something similar to another game. It's just an irrelevant comparison. There are very few games where the similarities matter in the big picture. Wanna compare Family Guy and Shrek? OK - those are LITERALLY the same game....but ST and T2 or even AC/DC and T2? C'mon. What's the point? OK, I concede...both games have rubber!!! Glarghghghghhh....
Quoted from erak:I agree, but they are not the same designers pins. Not bashing Steve Richie by any means I know thats part of his style. And if the layout formula works, why not improve on it. T2 is a great machine and after playing Star Trek today its an improvement on a tested formula for sure. It plays very similar in shots and flow. In fact at times I forgot that 3rd flipper was there and the extra ramp and it felt just like my T2 at home. When I got multiball going and locked a ball in the magnet I was expecting the cannon jackpot shot. I'm totally serious.
Just can't understand the freaking out over comparing a great classic game to a new one by the same designer.
I can honestly look at the playfirld on Star Trek and only notice 6 things different about the layout besides the inserts.(not counting those, nothing to do with kinetics/flow)
I can notice 100 things the same.
Take a pic of ACDC and a pic of T2. Same thing. You are not stating anything that everybody already knows. Compare MB with TF. It is almost the exact layout.
The formula works otherwise it would not be used.
Quoted from TomGWI:Ah yes. More like TFLE and WOZ. They both have 2 mini playfields.
Wait Embryon and WOZ are both wide bodies. If you stick a LCD in Embryon, you basically have WOZ.
TFLE does NOT have 2 mini playfields.
Quoted from metahugh:TFLE does NOT have 2 mini playfields.
How about Austin Powers and WOZ!? Austin spins...the house spins! Dr. Evil rises from the playfield....so does the Witch!!!! OMG they're the same F*cking game!!!! 
Quoted from metahugh:TFLE does NOT have 2 mini playfields.
What is the starscream platform then?
Its Ritchie man, he sticks a formula of flow, of course all his tables tend to be small varients of each other. I can definitely say that Stern Star Trek does have that classic Ritchie feel, and plays quite well. Its a lot more fun, out of the box, than AC/DC was because it doesn't have any of that cheap crap happening that makes a game unenjoyable. Software will really make or break this game, because god knows the art work isnt doing anything.
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