Quoted from Captain_Kirk:The stock laser is very visible on the flipper. Noticed in person and any of the various videos on You Tube.
This fix would be a great assets methinks.
Posted... thx!
(Topic ID: 96665)
Linked Games
Star Trek (LE)
Stern, 2013-
Star Trek (Premium)
Stern, 2013
Topic Gallery
Plano, TX
Quoted from lasermel:Thanks Spidey! Really glad you like it and I hope it helps you enjoy the game even more!
So what is the chance of different color(s) here, I know you mentioned you might look into it but just wanted ot see if that might be coming down the pipe. I still just can't get behind the green for some reason, seems out of place with this game.
Quoted from bemmett:So what is the chance of different color(s) here, I know you mentioned you might look into it but just wanted ot see if that might be coming down the pipe. I still just can't get behind the green for some reason, seems out of place with this game.
I agree the green color doesn't really match the red/blue/purple layout, but probably your only other real option is red, maybe just a more powerful driver.
I have ordered some high power red lasers and they should arrive in a week or two. The reason green gives the most impact is because it "doesn't" match the colors of the game and you get the best contrast, and also because it's a color your eyes are more sensitive to. Shining red light on red surfaces subdues the impact somewhat and red light on a blue surface just gets absorbed. A blue laser isn't very bright looking to begin with at the wavelength available, and would require a fairly high power to get a reasonable effect.
Quoted from Spitfiren8:If you can add this to the Pro model somehow, you're my hero!
X2!!!!!!
Helsinki
Quoted from Nepi23:X3!!!!!
--1 ... It the only LE feature. You cheapsakes shouldn't have the option.
- -2........ok not really I just thought that comment above was funny, the laser is hardly the highlight of the LE over the pro.
Quoted from Zitt:--1 ... It the only LE feature. You cheapsakes shouldn't have the option.
Man I was so close. Have the enterprise mod, shaker motor, blocked the left drain lane,
and I play with the glass off so my kid can tilt the Vengeance forward every time I destroy it.
The laser was all that was missing.
Jaén
Linz
Quoted from Squizz:What I tried was Unplug the yellow lead where it connect to the transformer, 6v line that drives the Gi's and playfield lamps, then played the machine and wow did the red shine like a dog in the Moon Light
All stern needs to do is disable some lights while in this mode, Blackout like AFM so to be.
do you have a pro ?
i don't find this connector
when i switch of the yellow 2 cables at the power board the go inserts are still on
also when i switch of the next connector GI out where are one 2 cables on it
the manual is also not complete at the LE ( wrong pcbs version) and nothing to read about the led GI)
The laser effect has always been a take it or leave it effect for me. Not because it's too dim etc but for other reasons. Firstly it makes me feel like I'm playing in a 70's night club (this mod might be good on Austin powers) second it puts me off my playing and third pretty red lights don't really make me feel like I'm being attacked by a squadron of Klingon war birds. Some like it tho and I can appreciate why.
I put this mod in my STLE and it is awesome!! The change really makes it look like a star field now. Before you could only see the biggest of the stars. Now with the brighter laser there are so many more stars visible and in different sizes - it is amazing. Without the apron on there are literally thousands of stars, so when you divide the power into all of those there is no concern for safety.
I have always liked this feature, but now it really looks like a star field and not a disco ball. I should also mention that it only took about ten minutes to install including installing the tape mod to keep the laser off the flippers. Now that I know it is a keeper, I will cut off the gator clips and solder the wires in place.
would use the green with the blackout mod
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/star-trek-le-laser-blackout-mod
Paris
2 weeks later
Gothenburg
First of all, thanks lasermel for all your work and efforts for making this mod available for the rest of us. I've been using this for a while now and frankly the effect is a bit too strong for my taste. It would have been great if you could adjust the effect somehow. Also, shielding the laser effect from the left flipper is absolutely necessary.
Quoted from lasermel:You can get the effect with any color laser, but you get the best bang for the buck with green as you need less power to achieve the best perceived brightness and it doesn't get washed out by the lighting on the playfield as badly.
The issue is that green lasers operate at a wavelength that closely matches that of hemoglobin, which is why it is more likely to cause damage to your eye than a red laser. In this regard, the power of the laser means relatively little.
As for the reflection issue, keep in mind that the wavelength does not change when the light is reflected. That's why it stays green after it bounces off a surface.
This is a colossally bad idea and I would not recommend swapping out the laser for a green one.
that's still a class IV laser... soooo FYI legally you need a variance from the CDRH (division of the FDA) to legally sell that in the US... requires a product report for the product itself and then a show variance for each machine you install it into...
trust me it isn't fun...
Quoted from zsciaeount:The issue is that green lasers operate at a wavelength that closely matches that of hemoglobin, which is why it is more likely to cause damage to your eye than a red laser. In this regard, the power of the laser means relatively little.
what? what the heck are you talking about? a green laser is just as dangerous as a red laser as a blue laser to the eye... it has to do with power density, it will get focused via the lens in your eye and burn your retina... and to the skin shorter wavelengths (deep blue/violet) are more dangerous for various reasons...
and if your worried about your hemoglobin argon lines are more dangerous for that 488-514nm... these green lasers are DPSS, so 532nm... but again, for your eyes, if it's affecting your hemoglobin you have bigger problems (like blindness)
ANYWAY
even if these are 100mW lasers, you need to measure the "hot" beam (usually the center one) since this is going through a diffraction grating... that hot beam is what is going to determine laser class and "safety"... but if you are putting 100mW I can almost promise the hot beam is >5mW (limit for Class IIIb)
Quoted from flecom:that's still a class IV laser... soooo FYI legally you need a variance from the CDRH (division of the FDA) to legally sell that in the US... requires a product report for the product itself and then a show variance for each machine you install it into...
trust me it isn't fun...what? what the heck are you talking about? a green laser is just as dangerous as a red laser as a blue laser to the eye... it has to do with power density, it will get focused via the lens in your eye and burn your retina... and to the skin shorter wavelengths (deep blue/violet) are more dangerous for various reasons...
and if your worried about your hemoglobin argon lines are more dangerous for that 488-514nm... these green lasers are DPSS, so 532nm... but again, for your eyes, if it's affecting your hemoglobin you have bigger problems (like blindness)
ANYWAY
even if these are 100mW lasers, you need to measure the "hot" beam (usually the center one) since this is going through a diffraction grating... that hot beam is what is going to determine laser class and "safety"... but if you are putting 100mW I can almost promise the hot beam is >5mW (limit for Class IIIb)
Hemoglobin is everywhere in your body there's a blood supply, including the microcirculation of the eye, where exitation of the hemoglobin can lead to release of heat that cause thermal and inflammatory damage to the tissue beyond simply the absorption of any old wavelength. At the power of these lasers he's selling, that is particularly concerning.
Yes, power density has a lot to do with it, but my problem with the OP is that he's assuming a laser is a laser is a laser, and that the green is OK because it hasn't caused problems so far. It's upsetting to see all these people jumping on board when the risks are quite apparent.
DISCLAIMER: I know nothing about lasers...
What I find most troubling is that there are this many self-proclaimed laser experts on here, and their viewpoints are polar opposites. These aren't just minor variances in the proclaimed risks. We're talking a range from "too low to matter, it won't do any harm" to "it could likely cause blindness."
Quoted from Cheeks:These aren't just minor variances in the proclaimed risks. We're talking a range from "too low to matter, it won't do any harm" to "it could likely cause blindness."
Ya I get the feeling this all comes down to, don't stare directly into the laser and you'll be fine. But then again I only have a business degree, not a frickin laser degree and I like to stare at the sun directly, does that matter?
C'mon guys, if you're going to state things as facts, at least look them up first .. even if you believe you're correct.
This is how rumors get started and bad information gets spread 
I understand that the word "laser" is possibly mysterious and very misunderstood by a lot of people (thanks Hollywood), and that's ok... but so is math until you learn about it and trust me, my eyes have been damaged much more by looking over equations than any laser has ever done... especially by the kind we're talking about here.
I'm NOT saying that common sense and safety practices should not be applied here or anywhere else, but when things are used as directed then greater enjoyment can be obtained from the things we all enjoy... safely and without worry.
I know it's Wikipedia, but there's good basic info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety
Quoted from zsciaeount:The issue is that green lasers operate at a wavelength that closely matches that of hemoglobin, which is why it is more likely to cause damage to your eye than a red laser.
Looking at low power green laser light (like the star pattern we're talking about here) on a surface (not right into the beam!) or looking at a green light is NO DIFFERENT! Green is Green! Green-Yellow look brighter to the eye because it's in the "sweet spot" of your visual sensitivity. It has no effect on your hemoglobin (where is that from?) Any idea how much green is in sunlight - LOTS!
Quoted from zsciaeount:In this regard, the power of the laser means relatively little.
The power density of the laser means EVERYTHING!
Quoted from zsciaeount:As for the reflection issue, keep in mind that the wavelength does not change when the light is reflected. That's why it stays green after it bounces off a surface.
What light changes color after it bounces off of a surface and what does this have to do with anything? Different surfaces will reflect light in different ways and either reflect or absorb more or less of a particular wavelength. A red light will stay red, a blue light will stay blue, and yes... a green light will stay green!
Quoted from flecom:that's still a class IV laser... soooo FYI legally you need a variance from the CDRH (division of the FDA) to legally sell that in the US... requires a product report for the product itself and then a show variance for each machine you install it into...
100mW is a class IIIb laser! NO variance is needed.
Quoted from flecom:a green laser is just as dangerous as a red laser as a blue laser to the eye... it has to do with power density, it will get focused via the lens in your eye and burn your retina... and to the skin shorter wavelengths (deep blue/violet) are more dangerous for various reasons...
Correct! It's all about the power density and if it's high enough then it will burn. The star pattern doesn't come close. The UV or deep blue wavelengths can cause photochemical damage over time. (that's why UV sunglasses are so important if you're outside a lot)
Quoted from flecom:even if these are 100mW lasers, you need to measure the "hot" beam (usually the center one) since this is going through a diffraction grating... that hot beam is what is going to determine laser class and "safety"... but if you are putting 100mW I can almost promise the hot beam is >5mW (limit for Class IIIb)
The diffraction grating in the ST machine is a X-Y grid type grating. The "Hot" beam is divided down substantially between the hundreds of other beams being produced. I will verify the "hot" beam, measure it's power, and post the results. And for the record, the limit of Class IIIb is 500mW, not that it really matters here.
Again, if I felt like I was exposing anyone to a dangerous situation, I wouldn't have ever offered it up. I have it in my machine, and I really enjoy the effect as does everyone who sees it when they come over to play. I'm not trying to push it on anyone, but it's a matter of preference and it's available for those who want it... also available in RED now.
The blackout mod that kapsreiter is making will make the stock laser look much better, so that's also a great choice.
Personally, I'm going to do both!
Quoted from flecom:even if these are 100mW lasers, you need to measure the "hot" beam (usually the center one) since this is going through a diffraction grating... that hot beam is what is going to determine laser class and "safety"... but if you are putting 100mW I can almost promise the hot beam is >5mW (limit for Class IIIb)
The diffraction grating breaks the beam into literally thousands of beams. If the "hot beam" is in the center, then it is blocked off by the opening in the apron anyway - especially if you have the tape mod in.
Quoted from Cheeks:DISCLAIMER: I know nothing about lasers...
What I find most troubling is that there are this many self-proclaimed laser experts on here, and their viewpoints are polar opposites. These aren't just minor variances in the proclaimed risks. We're talking a range from "too low to matter, it won't do any harm" to "it could likely cause blindness."
I am not self-proclaimed, I have been doing this for years, and have training including some pretty hard math-intensive training
Quoted from lasermel:And for the record, the limit of Class IIIb is 500mW
wow serious brain fart, yes you are right... 100mW is IIIb... IIIa is <5mw...
BUT anything IIIb and IV (>5mW) needs a variance and product report I assure you
Quoted from flecom:I am not self-proclaimed, I have been doing this for years, and have training including some pretty hard math-intensive training
326402_10150293802747404_5471344... 160 KB
Finally! An expert! Can you put some frickin lasers on my frickin sharks?
268904.jpgQuoted from John_I:The diffraction grating breaks the beam into literally thousands of beams. If the "hot beam" is in the center, then it is blocked off by the opening in the apron anyway - especially if you have the tape mod in.
if any one of the beams exceeds 5mW it's Class IIIb and requires a variance
I really don't care what you do, I'm just stating facts, will the FDA catch you? probably not, but I know people that have been busted for less
actually any laser product technically requires a product report, even Class I (look it up) but you don't need a show variance... chances are they won't hassle you over anything IIIa or less though, doesn't mean they can't
Umm... isn't the stock LE laser a Class 2M laser?
Why is there talk of using a Class 3b laser in place of it?
Quoted from flecom:wow serious brain fart, yes you are right... 100mW is IIIb... IIIa is <5mw...
BUT anything IIIb and IV (>5mW) needs a variance and product report I assure you
http://www.laserist.org/Laserist/Safety_7.html
Great read and thanks for posting the link, but the variance is for a laser light show in a public venue. You can put a 10W laser in your home equipment if you're crazy enough to do so, and nobody will care... but I wouldn't advise it!
Anyway, I promised I would take some measurements and here are the results:
The Raw laser beam measured 109mW
The Hot beam thru the diffraction grating measured 4.73mW
The next highest beam closest to the hot beam measured 3.1mW
Close to the edge of the paper, the power levels dropped to 1mW or less.
laser labelraw laser beam, not thru diffractorraw beam measuredhot beam thru gratinghot beam measured as 4.73mW
again, ANY laser product needs a product report
there was a rather famous case in our circles about a guy that was selling a kit for a HeNe power supply... not even a complete power supply, just parts and a board, no tube included, guy got fined for selling a laser product without a product report
it's bull$hit but it's what we have to deal with
also that beam down and to the right looks hotter than your center beam but whatever... and if you really want to split hairs the laser is labeled IIIb
also what distance did you measure the power? 7mm diameter aperture at 14mm distance from the laser aperture is the standard for classification... the lasercheck has an 8mm aperture so it would be ok, but they would probably not accept it for a product report
again please don't take any of this as an attack I've just had too many friends deal with too much grief in reference to this crap
Thanks for your input flecom. The bottom row of dots looks brighter to the camera at the angle I took the picture from. In real life, it's the one I circled. I will do more research legally, but from an application perspective, when this laser is installed in the machine as instructed, it poses no safety hazard to anyone's eyes thru direct or reflected beams. Heck, Best Buy sells a laser projector that basically does the same thing, and it's casting beams directly out into a room. Anyway, I'm certainly not looking for trouble, here on pinside or especially legally. This mod is certainly not some big money making attempt and if I never had to make another wire harness for it, that would be ok. It's been more a "labor of love" to provide the same level of enjoyment to others as I am safely experiencing.
Ok, so after a little reading (thanks for prodding my curiosity flecom) it appears that if I want to sell this thing I do have to submit paperwork to the CDRH as a laser equipment manufacturer. To that end, and until further notice, I am no longer offering the laser upgrade for sale.
It's been fun hearing some of the "theories" about lasers and generally discussing the topic, but the law is the law and there is no debating that!
as far as safety, if the hot beam is <5mW as you measured then it's generally considered "eye safe"...
you could submit a product report, it's not *that* painful (especially since you would technically be IIIa) and it doesn't cost anything... you would have to relabel that module though...
I have a good power point presentation ILDA did about filling out a product report if I can find it and you want a copy let me know...
Quoted from flecom:as far as safety, if the hot beam is <5mW as you measured then it's generally considered "eye safe"...
you could submit a product report, it's not *that* painful (especially since you would technically be IIIa) and it doesn't cost anything... you would have to relabel that module though...
I have a good power point presentation ILDA did about filling out a product report if I can find it and you want a copy let me know...
Thanks flecom, I already found the site where the forms are and will submit them ASAP. If you can find the ppt, I'd love to read it too. Thx!
2 weeks later
Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
Reply
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!
Donate to PinsideGreat to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
