If it's happening pretty much every time, there's most likely some kind of issue with your lower opto. As soon as the ball trips it, both balls should release and another ball should kick out for 3 ball Multiball.

Absolutely wrong. The ball just barely tripping the lower opto will release the magnet ball & start your multiball. Getting a dead on whack is fun, but you don't have to do it. If you need a video for proof, I'll make you a video for proof. I own the game, and this is how it behaves. I've played another ST where the ball got stuck on the magnetized ball every single time and you had to wait for it to time out. That's abnormal behavior and there's something wrong with the lower opto.

I don't think it matters if it's an LE or Pro. They both have lower and upper optos and should be coded the same. Having the lower opto trip the Multiball isn't "intentionally easier"...it's functionally necessary so you don't get into situations where the ball is stuck to the other ball.

DEFINITELY an opto issue.

Its not code. It's your F***in' optos!

If you start Vengeance and get 2 balls stuck there without the 3rd launching - the front optos are NOT recognizing the hit. That's why the 2 balls are sticking and not releasing until the DMD countdown is over.

That's how the game rules work. If you don't hit the magnetized ball off in time, it will release and you only get a 2 ball multiball. If you hit it, they both release instantly and a 3rd ball is launched.

No. You're wrong. They would never make a setting that would punish the player by having sticky balls time out for a "light hit". That's insane. It hurts my brain to debate this.

Maybe a short somewhere?

Robert - I told you about this problem when we set up your game in December ! LOL Opto problem! Stern will hook you up, I'm sure! Hopefully they can send you pre-soldered/wired optos so replacing them is easier.

You seem to think I'm wrong. Which makes you double wrong. Let's disregard your Pro vs. LE theory. I've played Robert's LE. He has an LE. I have an LE. His LE *ALWAYS* catches the 2 balls and waits for the time out...it NEVER awards you that hit EVER, and NEVER kicks out the 3rd ball (reward for hitting the magnet ball). Mine ALWAYS lets the ball go when you hit it - even lightly...becaaaauuuuse - it's TRIPPED BY THE FRONT OPTO!!! ...and then always kicks out the 3rd ball.

Robert clearly has a problem with his front opto. Fact. Nothing to do with code.

Not for the 1st Vengeance Multiball issue.

I've tried the "hold the flipper" thing...the ball still hits and releases every time. Any issues with the Vengeance magnet problem must be hardware. Otherwise, why are mine and others' games working perfectly?

EDIT...maybe I was using the right flipper....left flipper does indeed cause both balls to hold...hmmmm.

As always

Yes, please...you seem to have a quote that is different than what I wrote

I've played RVDV's STLE on early firmware and new firmware. It's always been the same.

I'm not sure why you're so convinced it's software and why you refuse to believe me based on my experience with the game. These issues are hardware. The Pro vs. LE thing is irrelevant. When a Pro and LE have the same feature - the games are using the same code between them. Think of pinball code as somewhat modular. Since both versions have the same optos & magnet, that area is coded the same. I played tons of Pros at Expo with old code. I've played a Pro with newer code. If this was a code issue, it would be consistent. All Pros would have the problem. This is clearly not the case....so, please....this isn't a fight where someone comes out a winner. There are just facts here. If the ball doesn't release when another ball crosses the front opto beam - there's something hardware related happening.

I'm trying to help folks and you're deadset on giving them irrelevant information.

I'm running 1.42, current code.

I just did the hold the left flipper test...and in fact it does hold both balls when I did this. Still doesn't mean it's a code issue...there could be some hardware thing...perhaps something installed incorrectly at the factory. Aurich's machine doesn't do this. I'll Email Stern.

Whatever this "left flipper" ball hold is, it's different than what's happening on machines like RVDV's.

OK - I have a new test for you guys to try. Here's something that I assumed as a code issue but maybe it's hardware as well:

When you start the 2nd or 3rd Vengeance mode (where the ball is held behind the target to start) - press both flipper buttons repeatedly. When I do this, I get "free hits" on the Vengeance before the ball is released...I can finish the mode before the ball is even released. Aurich tested this on his machine (Premium) and it doesn't do this...the left flipper thing doesn't affect his game either.

Just tested the left flipper hold thing again.

If the ball hits lightly (only the bottom opto is crossed), both balls are released.

If the ball hits hard (ball crosses the top opto), that seems to cause them to both stick. Even so - the 3rd ball kicks out into play....and if that ball crosses the lower opto, they'll be released.

Hmmmm....

If it was software they'd all have it. Something physical...board related, opto related, wiring related must be at play here.

It's not a magnetized ball issue on RVDV's game....it doesn't recognize that you hit the captured ball - that's why it gets stuck...because the captured ball is still captured.

RVDV - now that you've replaced all that stuff, what happens in switch test? Do those optos work normally in switch test?

I'm not sure what the fix is, but it's still abnormal. Mine will release the captured ball & give you the 3rd whether the ball goes in super fast or super slow.

Does what? Work correctly or stickyballs?

Too many people are having this problem. Stern really needs to re-engineer SOMETHING so that this doesn't keep happening to people right out of the box.

I dunno, mine works fine except for that thing where flipping both buttons during Vengeance 2 & 3 count as hits. *shrug*

At least you're near Stern...throw the pin in your car and drive it over there lol.

Luckily my magnet has worked well since I unboxed it and still does.

It's only going to grab it back if it's turned on. Hitting the front opto shuts the magnet off, so it shouldn't strongly grab anything back. Sorry if it's already been covered in this thread - but when you hit the magnetized ball and it grabs both - is it shooting out a 3rd ball for the multiball? If not - the hit wasn't registered, therefore: Opto problem, not magnet problem.

Don't see how it can be a software problem when mine (and others) works 100%. There's definitely a problem though, as too many people have problems...but, I think it's gotta be some kind of hardware issue that will have to have some kind of physical service bulletin fix at some point.

The ramps (white inserts) count as hits toward the Vegeance, but only a direct shot to the Vengeance (front opto break) gets you the 3rd ball for the Multiball. While you're in the Multiball, the ramps (white inserts) will give you Vengeance hits for a little bit, but then you have to hit it directly a few times to destroy it.