Update:

A solution to this problem has been found. It appears that EM interference from magnet was messing with the optos. The solution is to twist the wires going from the optos to the boards underneath the playfield. This will make the game behave normally.

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Hello, I was wondering if anyone else is having the same issue and if there is a fix. When the ball locks on the magnet for vengeance multiball and I try to hit it with the other ball, it either sticks to the ball or it bounces off, but doesn't start the multiball, it ends up timing out and then starts the multiball.

Thanks for all the input, I will check the opto when I get home. This is a pro version and it came from STERN with 1.4 installed.

As far as hitting it hard enough to trigger the other opto, I've hit it so hard that it moved the ball on the magnet up and my other ball took it's spot on the magnet, so it sound like an opto issue. I will let everyone know if that was it.

Ok, I just got home to try out the switch test and found that both opto's are working. This is really strange though, so if I start vengeance multiball, and stick my finger in front of the first opto, it starts the multiball with no problems. I even tried it again, but this time I used the ball throwing it up there with my hand and it works. So the next time I tried the same test but with the flipper, and guess what, no go, it does not trigger the opto. So if I use the flipper to get the ball up to the opto it will not work, it's very very strange. I've thought about downgrading to 1.3 and to see if it has the same issues, because the one at our mall has 1.3 and does not do this.

Found the problem, and please someone else confirm. So I just tried it again doing the same test, once by hand, and it worked, then I tried it again, with my hand, but this time held the left flipper in, and it did not work, the ball just stuck to the other ball! So it looks like this is a firmware issue.

Yes you are correct, it appears to be a timing issue. I just tried it again, started the mode and held the flipper, I moved my finger over the opto, and it did not see it, I continued to move my finger, then after a short moment it finally saw it. I tried it again without the flipper engaged and it saw my finger immediately.

It's strange though, I can flip the flipper, let it go back down and it will still cause a delay in the opto, it's just enough of a delay to allow the ball go past the opto and cling to the other ball. It's a very small delay too, maybe 2 - 3 seconds. And it does it with both flippers.

Are you running 1.4?

I imagine Stern knows about this, but has anyone sent an email to them with this issue? It's very frustrating. I was going to downgrade to 1.3 and see what happens, but I can't find 1.3 on their site, they now only have 1.4.

Yes, there are only two sets of opto's when the ball is stuck on the magnet it is blocking the second set of optos, I can throw the ball hard enough to move the ball up and my second ball will then sit on the magnet with no results.

Thanks, I will give Stern a call today and see what they say.

I think it depends on what version you're running.

I sent an email to Stern, now I'm waiting for a response...

For me it doesn't work with a quick flip, if you hit the flipper just once, it starts the delay, then after about 3 seconds you can put something to block the opto and it will start the mode, but that's the problem, by the time the delay is over the ball is stuck on the other ball. I also notice that even when the delay is over and it hit the flipper again, it seems to start the delay again.

This is so frustrating, I hope they come up with a fix soon.

Thanks, yes I will give them a call on my lunch break today, I'll keep you posted.

Ok, I talked to Chas (super nice guy!), and explained the issue, he said he will talk to the programmer to take a look, I also told him I will send a video showing the issue. The video is taking a bit though, I'm trying to get it to a size that I can send to him. I told him that if I can't send it via email, I'll post it on youtube and send him the link.

Ok, I posted it.

It's not so much an physical problem with the opto, it's a delay issue, I also have the machine up to where the bubble level by the shooter is centered.

You're welcome, my machine has done it from the first day I got it. On my machine I really don't think it's the opto itself, because if you start the mode and you do not use the flipper, then by hand throw the ball to it, it will start instantly, but you use the flipper you get that small delay where the opto is disabled, thus the opto does not see it in that short delay, goes past it and then sticks to the ball. I think the reason some people are not seeing the issue could be their fw version, the one at our mall is on 1.3 and doesn't do it.

Crap, I forgot to, I'm sending it now...

I just tried that as someone else did here, I taped the flipper up, and tried the mode the same, if I press the flipper, it still sticks to the other ball

Just out of curiosity, are you both running the same FW on your LE's?

But we have to remember, what versions of the firmware are people running, this could be why some are not seeing the issue and some are.

Ok, tonight just for laughs, I swapped the vengeance opto board with the one next to it, and now it's working! I haven't had time to put a bunch of games on it, but with the few test was I able to do, it no longer sticks, it starts the mode instantly. Now with that said, I'm not sure that just the act of moving the opto boards changed a bad connection or something else. It does show it working in the switch matrix test as it did before.

So if someone that is having the same problem could try this too, that would be great. I'm going to test it some more tomorrow. I will keep everyone posted...

I swapped the boards under the playfield.

Ok, so last night I switched the opto boards, ran some test, and it was working, now today at lunch, I go and try it, guess what, back to doing it again! So when people on this thread say it has been getting worse I can see what they mean.

So tonight I’m going to try to switch out the actual sensors themselves with others on the game. But first I’m going to check and see if the connectors on the optp plugs aren’t partially faulty.

The thing I don’t understand is why it’s only happening when the flippers are activated. If I don’t use the flippers it works fine. And I know it’s not vibration because I can tape the flipper in the up position, activate the flipper with no movement and it fails. This make me wonder if it’s power draw+bad opto somehow. Because even with the flipper taped in the up position, I’m still pulsing all that current through the coil on the flipper. More testing tonight… 

Yes, I was thinking about hooking up my scope to see what’s going on, I might do that after checking the connections. I’ll keep you posted.

ok, so I tried something different (simple) before going too deep. I took the connectors off the bottom opto board and pushed the connectors (prongs) a little bit outwards on the board to give a little bit different connection to the plugs, and it is now working again. I have played 3 games so far and the ball has not gotten stuck once.

Can someone here try this too and see if they get the same results?

3-10-2014 6-23-15 PM.jpg

Sorry, I will take a picture when I get a chance, but It's the one on the left side closest to the ship.

I've played it some more tonight, still no problems I think this could be it! Before this, it never worked.

There are no stickers on the top of the boards, they all have the same printing on the top mask. But here is a picture.

20140310_212655.jpg

Yes, I agree, this was just a quick test to test my theory, I will remove the connectors out of their plastic case and pinch them so they fit tighter to the pin and then I will retest.

520-5239-01. You can see it printed on the bottom right corner. Too small for a sticker. That board has been used for years. Spidey, Pirate's, FGY and WPT all have at least two, if you want to try a known good one.

Ah, I see, sorry I was looking at the board for a specific number. Yes the board number is on the sticker

I also talked to them also about this issue over the phone.

Though I am happy to say my problem is completely gone now after cleaning and bending out the connectors in the plug!

I I can’t speak for everyone here, but for me, it seems to be the connector on the opto itself (the plastic piece that has the two wires). I had to push them out of the plastic connector piece, I then took and eraser to clean the front of the connector that actually makes contact with the male pins on the opto controller board, then cleaned it off with alcohol. I then bent them a little bit out so more pressure would be on the male connector (sorry I didn’t take pictures).

Of course I could be wrong on all of this, because someone reported that they had a cold solder joint on the opto itself, it might be that just moving the wire made connection again and it wasn’t the connector at all. I will have to play around with it some more.