(Topic ID: 82803)

Stern Star Trek multiball magnet *Solution found*


By nodyeliab

5 years ago



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  • 539 posts
  • 81 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by paul_8788
  • Topic is favorited by 34 Pinsiders

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There are 539 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 11.
#401 5 years ago

Does the twisting fix also correct the problem where you can double flip to get hits to the ship during the 2nd Vengeance mode while the ball is still behind the drop target?

#402 5 years ago
Quoted from steve1515:

Does the twisting fix also correct the problem where you can double flip to get hits to the ship during the 2nd Vengeance mode while the ball is still behind the drop target?

That's a very good question.

#403 5 years ago
Quoted from steve1515:

Does the twisting fix also correct the problem where you can double flip to get hits to the ship during the 2nd Vengeance mode while the ball is still behind the drop target?

Sounds like a cold solder on one of the transceivers. the twisted wires won't help with that.

#404 5 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Sounds like a cold solder on one of the transceivers. the twisted wires won't help with that.

I don't have the problem, but I thought the same thing. Twisting the wires can't possibly solve the problem, but I was wondering what people with the problem are seeing.

#405 5 years ago

Hey guys, I think Stern took your suggestion and implemented the fix. I haven't had the problem you all have had. I received my game a week ago. I just lifted the playfield and saw twisted wires around the magnet. Here are some pictures. Is this what everyone is referring to as the fix? If so, Stern is doing it.

wires2.JPG

wires1.JPG

#406 5 years ago

Yup that's it !

#407 5 years ago

i put ferrite beads on them which completely fixed it - the twisting alone still had the very occasional issue.

#408 5 years ago

That's great! Congrats to all in this thread!

#409 5 years ago
Quoted from sillyoldelf:

i put ferrite beads on them which completely fixed it - the twisting alone still had the very occasional issue.

Could you post a pic and where you got them? The twist method has not solved the issue for me?

#410 5 years ago
Quoted from sillyoldelf:

i put ferrite beads on them which completely fixed it - the twisting alone still had the very occasional issue.

Yes... please share where you got them

#411 5 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

Hey guys, I think Stern took your suggestion and implemented the fix. I haven't had the problem you all have had. I received my game a week ago. I just lifted the playfield and saw twisted wires around the magnet. Here are some pictures. Is this what everyone is referring to as the fix? If so, Stern is doing it.

Thanks for the photos! Apparently, Stern solved the problem using the same fix that has been discussed in this thread. The thing I still don't understand is why they haven't officially created a service bulletin detailing the fix.

Quoted from sillyoldelf:

I put ferrite beads on them which completely fixed it - the twisting alone still had the very occasional issue.

I've been thinking about adding ferrite beads myself. Like you, the twist method mostly solved the problem. Every once in a great while, though, I still get the 2nd ball hanging on the 1st. I'd be very interested to know which ferrite beads you used, and where you purchased them. I'd also love to see some pics of the install when you get a chance. Thanks!

#412 5 years ago

A couple of times now, the second ball hung on the first for me. (I guess I jinxed myself by saying I hadn't had a problem.) Both times, by shaking the machine a bit, I got them to release.

#413 5 years ago
Quoted from dug:

Yes... please share where you got them

Amazon, Ebay, Parts Express, Newegg, Monoprice

#414 5 years ago

Which opto wires are twisted together? Is it the lower opto receiver and transmitter are together and the upper's are together also? Or, is it both the left upper and lower opto boards are twisted together and both the right's are together?

I ask because, looking at the pictures it looks like the twisted wires are both coming out of the same hole in the playfield. On my game both the rights come out of the same hole and both the lefts come out of another hole. I would have thought that you would want to twist together the wires from a corresponding opto (i.e. both the bottoms together and both the upper opto wires together).

So, I'm a little confused as to what's the right way. Which way should it be done?

#415 5 years ago

Did you loop the wires through the ferrite core like this?

ferrite core.jpg
#416 5 years ago
Quoted from steve1515:

Which opto wires are twisted together? Is it the lower opto receiver and transmitter are together and the upper's are together also? Or, is it both the left upper and lower opto boards are twisted together and both the right's are together?
I ask because, looking at the pictures it looks like the twisted wires are both coming out of the same hole in the playfield. On my game both the rights come out of the same hole and both the lefts come out of another hole. I would have thought that you would want to twist together the wires from a corresponding opto (i.e. both the bottoms together and both the upper opto wires together).
So, I'm a little confused as to what's the right way. Which way should it be done?

If you are referring to my pictures, there are two holes. You can kind of see it in the second picture -- the hole at the bottom center is the hole you see in the first picture. I hope that helps.

#417 5 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

If you are referring to my pictures, there are two holes. You can kind of see it in the second picture -- the hole at the bottom center is the hole you see in the first picture. I hope that helps.

Yes, I was talking about your pictures. So basically what I meant was that you have a hole on both the left and right of the vengeance. The two opto cables on the right side of the ship (for the upper and lower optos) go into the right side hole. And, the two opto cables on the left side of the ship (for the upper and lower optos) go into the left side hole.

So, the way it's shown in your picture, it looks like Stern twisted together the two rights and also twisted together the two lefts. I thought the fix was to twist together the two lower optos and also twist together the two upper optos. It doesn't appear that's how it's done one your game, unless they fed the wires thought the holes differently than on mine. Can you check to see which optos you have twisted together?

#418 5 years ago
Quoted from steve1515:

Yes, I was talking about your pictures. So basically what I meant was that you have a hole on both the left and right of the vengeance. The two opto cables on the right side of the ship (for the upper and lower optos) go into the right side hole. And, the two opto cables on the left side of the ship (for the upper and lower optos) go into the left side hole.
So, the way it's shown in your picture, it looks like Stern twisted together the two rights and also twisted together the two lefts. I thought the fix was to twist together the two lower optos and also twist together the two upper optos. It doesn't appear that's how it's done one your game, unless they fed the wires thought the holes differently than on mine. Can you check to see which optos you have twisted together?

Sure. So, if you look from the top of the playfield, the top and bottom opto wires on the right side of the Vengence go in the hole on the right, and the top and bottom opto wires on the left side of the Vengence go in the hole on the left. I think that answers your question, yes?

#419 5 years ago

Yes, it does thank you. So it does appear that Stern is mixing optos in their twisting. I would think that they would keep the twisting between the sender/receiver optos of the same switch.

@Kneissl: Does it matter which two you twist together?

#420 5 years ago

Yes it matters; The wires you twist are already attached.

#421 5 years ago
Quoted from Kneissl:

Yes it matters; The wires you twist are already attached.

Ah, now I see where the confusion is.

In your original photo, you are doing what I think makes the most sense and twisting the "speaker wire" to make a "twisted pair"...that's two conductors, so in the end since there are four opto boards in the vengeance, you will have four twisted pairs each with two conductors.

I was looking at Nokoro's picture, and it looks like Stern is twisting the "speaker wire" of two opto boards together to get a twisted pair with four conductors in it. I think Stern, like myself misunderstood the twisting and how it's done.

Now, I get it... You only twist the single "speaker wire" from each individual opto board.

Kneissl, do I have it right?

Maybe someone should tell Stern they are implementing the fix the wrong way.

#422 5 years ago
Quoted from steve1515:

Maybe someone should tell Stern they are implementing the fix the wrong way.

I don't think you should assume Stern copied and pasted Kneissl's fix. They have engineers just for situations like this. I would hope that they tested any fix before they switched the assembly procedure.

As for why there hasn't been a service bulletin, it's not that big of a deal. People playing on location don't even notice. The active part of the collector community got the fix here and anyone who calls them will be told what they need to do. And it won't cause a fire if it isn't fixed. No service bulletin needed.

#423 5 years ago

What size ferrite core do I need to buy? 3.5mm, 5 mm ?

Thanks

#424 5 years ago

Ferrite Clip On HEM3012 - http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/ferrite-clip-on-hem3012-n89ab (I imagine you can get these easy in USA so I wouldnt order from them)

A clip-on ferrite ring designed to cure electromagnetic & radio frequency interference at source. Always choose an internal diameter close to that of the cable or wind through several times. Always put ferrites at the noisy end of the cable.
Order Part Max Max Min Attenuation (Ω)
Code number diameter length hole dia 25 MHz 100MHz
N89AB HEM3012 13 25.5 2.4 93 158

I just put mine near the opto board on the playfield. Not a single issue now - it can't wait to spit out that third ball

Worked better than twisting which didn't completely fix it for me but maybe I did it wrong.

ferrite-clip-on-hem3012.jpg
#425 5 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

I don't think you should assume Stern copied and pasted Kneissl's fix. They have engineers just for situations like this. I would hope that they tested any fix before they switched the assembly procedure.

Yes, that's true, but looking at Nokoro's picture, it looks like they just twisted together both the right opto boards and both the left opto boards--that's not twisting the individual opto boards wires, but twisting them around each other to make a 4 conductor twist. It may work just because of the spiraling that you get in the end, but it just doesn't seem to make sense to do it that way. You get more twists per inch doing it Kneissl's way which will lead to better noise rejection. Plus, it seems more labor intensive to do it the way Stern did it in the picture. Twisting each individual opto's speaker wire by itself would be faster/more cost effective which makes me think that Stern misunderstood the fix.

#426 5 years ago
Quoted from nosro:

Amazon, Ebay, Parts Express, Newegg, Monoprice

If you order through Amazon, which model # is the correct one to use. Several are listed.

#427 5 years ago

I'm not a scientist, and haven't done tests to measure the interference with the twisted pair or 'twisted quad', but I think Steve has it right. It worked for me anyway.

#428 5 years ago

They have these at Radio Shack. They show in stock at my local store so I'll check it out and give it a try.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3012599

Untitled.jpg
#429 5 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

A couple of times now, the second ball hung on the first for me. (I guess I jinxed myself by saying I hadn't had a problem.) Both times, by shaking the machine a bit, I got them to release.

This problem is now happening more and more to me despite the twisted wires from Stern. It is not a huge deal because I can still get the balls to release with a shake of the machine. And it is only intermittent. But perhaps I should try those beads. Would I place them over the twisted wires? Do they stay in place by themselves?

#430 5 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

This problem is now happening more and more to me despite the twisted wires from Stern.

You might want to undo Stern's version of the fix and redo it by twisting the four individual two-conductor pairs. I think that will help. If you still have a problem, then go with the ferrite.

I'd be interested to see if the problem is caused by Stern's twist implementation.

#431 5 years ago

One thing to think about.. Over time as the balls become magnetised they will not roll when attached to each other. Try this on the open playfield or a bench. This is what causes trough problems with magnetised balls. The examples of balls still sticking after the fix that are dislodged with a shake are not the game doing it.. It is magnetised balls sticking together and not rolling properly.

#432 5 years ago
Quoted from TimeBandit:

One thing to think about.. Over time as the balls become magnetised they will not roll when attached to each other. Try this on the open playfield or a bench. This is what causes trough problems with magnetised balls. The examples of balls still sticking after the fix that are dislodged with a shake are not the game doing it.. It is magnetised balls sticking together and not rolling properly.

Thanks. That's interesting. I was going to get those ultragloss pinballs from pinball life, but I wanted to wait until I had a chance to put some felt tape on the ball shooter like another pinsider recommended to prevent nicks. Maybe that will correct the problem.

#433 5 years ago

So I've twisted the optos and moved the wires away from the magnet...But now I'm getting ball sticks every time I get to Vengeance - left or right flipper shot. Any thoughts?

#434 5 years ago
Quoted from SaminVA:

They have these at Radio Shack. They show in stock at my local store so I'll check it out and give it a try.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3012599

Untitled.jpg 6 KB

My STLE is working good but I was wondering how those cores from radio shack worked out. I might add them as a precautionary measure.

#435 5 years ago
Quoted from nicoga3000:

So I've twisted the optos and moved the wires away from the magnet...But now I'm getting ball sticks every time I get to Vengeance - left or right flipper shot. Any thoughts?

We're you getting them before? Are your balls magnetized like mine? Do they come loose with a shake?

I just got the ultra gloss balls from pinballlife but haven't had a chance to put them in yet. I'm hoping that stops the occaisional stuck ball that I get.

#436 5 years ago
Quoted from Nokoro:

We're you getting them before? Are your balls magnetized like mine? Do they come loose with a shake?
I just got the ultra gloss balls from pinballlife but haven't had a chance to put them in yet. I'm hoping that stops the occaisional stuck ball that I get.

I was having the issue, yeah. I'm also using the pinballlife balls already. And no, they don't come loose with a shake - in fact, they get stuck every single time I've noticed. I'm REALLY unhappy about it...That's one of the cooler features of this game. I'm thinking of calling Stern tomorrow and bitching to see what they may be able to suggest otherwise (unless that's a lost cause?).

E: Anyone with a Premium able to post a pic of your wires and how you have them oriented? I want to see if SOMEHOW I screwed up.

#437 5 years ago
Quoted from nicoga3000:

I was having the issue, yeah. I'm also using the pinballlife balls already. And no, they don't come loose with a shake - in fact, they get stuck every single time I've noticed. I'm REALLY unhappy about it...That's one of the cooler features of this game. I'm thinking of calling Stern tomorrow and bitching to see what they may be able to suggest otherwise (unless that's a lost cause?).
E: Anyone with a Premium able to post a pic of your wires and how you have them oriented? I want to see if SOMEHOW I screwed up.

I have a Pro and have done everything suggested here even using ferrite beads to no avail. Let me know what you hear from stern.

#438 5 years ago
Quoted from nicoga3000:

I'm thinking of calling Stern tomorrow and bitching to see what they may be able to suggest otherwise (unless that's a lost cause?).

You should definitely call Stern. They have clearly implemented the fix that was suggested here if you look at the pictures I posted on a recently manufactured machine. If there are instances when this still doesn't work, something else is either wrong or the fix doesn't work in all circumstances. But, they have thought about it, so they may be able to give you some ideas. Let us know what happens.

#439 5 years ago

I'll be calling them first thing Monday morning. I'll report back!

#440 5 years ago

I guess I should probably remove the "solution found" from the thread title. This sucks. I thought for sure we had it licked. I wonder if Stern changed something in the way they are building them that now causes the twisting fix to NOT work.

#441 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinballpal:

My STLE is working good but I was wondering how those cores from radio shack worked out. I might add them as a precautionary measure.

I have been real busy and haven't had a chance to drop by my Radio Shack. Well I did yesterday, had some time and went down around 8:00 PM and the place was closed. The sign on the door says they close every day at 7:00 PM, WTF I don't know when that started, Radio Shack has become almost worthless. Maybe tomorrow I try and drop by again.

#442 5 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

I guess I should probably remove the "solution found" from the thread title. This sucks. I thought for sure we had it licked. I wonder if Stern changed something in the way they are building them that now causes the twisting fix to NOT work.

Given that Stern is twisting themselves, I'm not sure they changed something else. My machine has been working fairly well with the twist from Stern. It was manufactured on June 11th. The occasional hang-up I get I'm hoping is just a magnetized ball. I think it makes sense to wait and see what nicoga3000 reports back after talking to Stern. Maybe there is a simple explanation or fix.

#443 5 years ago

Nicoga3000, are you implementing the twist like Stern is doing it or doing it the way the original fix was done? The original fix twists the individual two conductor pair and, I believe, is a better fix than what Stern is doing. See my posts above for details.

#444 5 years ago
Quoted from steve1515:

Nicoga3000, are you implementing the twist like Stern is doing it or doing it the way the original fix was done? The original fix twists the individual two conductor pair and, I believe, is a better fix than what Stern is doing. See my posts above for details.

Original - and yeah, I've followed the best I can. I'll take a pic of mine tomorrow and show what I've done...See if maybe I'm doing it wrong?

#445 5 years ago

I think a pic of what you're doing will help.

#446 5 years ago

The arrows correspond to the board that the twisted wires connect to.

I originally only had the green set, but when the ball was sticking still, I did the blue set. The ball was still sticking, so I tried the orange set today.

If you follow each set of wires, you can see that they have a small loop in them...I can't imagine that would cause a problem, but it's something to point out.

ST Premium Optos.jpg

#447 5 years ago

you need to twist the pair of attached wires separately... couple images that might help clarify:
radiation-twisted-pairs-1359143187_500_289_75.jpg
shelted.jpg

Edit: if you're still scratching your head, i'll get a closeup of a twisted opto wire.

#448 5 years ago

So do I need to actually take the protective coating off the wire?

#449 5 years ago

No, do not take the coating (actually, insulation) off.

#450 5 years ago
Quoted from nosro:

No, do not take the coating (actually, insulation) off.

Yeah, I'm confused. I thought I was doing it right by twisting the two wires together as I show in my pic. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong if my pic is incorrect. I don't know if the premium is any different than the pro in terms of what wires need twisting?

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There are 539 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 11.

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