Congrats on the fix guys!

If you wouldn't mind, can someone who has successfully done this please describe the process on which wires need to be disconnected and twisted together? I wonder if there is any other way to "shield" these wires or relocate them to solve the problem? Thanks in advance!

Have you read through the thread?

I read through it, yes. As a new owner, I just dont want to start unplugging things randomly. With respect to shielding, I was wondering if there is a vendor who sells the stuff that can be wrapped around the wires instead of twisting them. Thats all...

Even though the connectors are all the same, Stern made it very easy on us as they labeled each opto wire very clearly. So there is really no risk to unplugging them all, unknotting them, twisting the pairs, doing some re-routing, and plugging them back in the right place.

Docray1,

The fix is super easy. There is a pair of optos at the entrance to the Vengeance tunnel (one on the left, and one on the right). If you follow the wires coming from these optos, you will see that they plug into a board below the playfield. Disconnect each wire one at a time, twist it a bunch of times, and then plug it back in. Easy as pie.

Funny how Stern didn't figure this out first and post a bulletin.

Has anyone emailed them the fix? Surely someone has to have already been working with their tech support on this? Mine is working perfectly, so I'm not going to do it, but someone who can answer any questions they might have should.

I went ahead and emailed this thread to Patrick at Stern.

I don't have this problem and had nothing to do with the solution, but I have been following this thread from the beginning. It's good to see a resolution.

EDIT: Patrick acknowledged receipt of the email.

Both Mouser and Jameco sell the foil-coated mylar wrap. I think I may have seen it at Parts Express too. If you're really daring and careful, you can even use aluminum foil and wrap. Just make sure that the foil does not touch (and will NEVER touch) anything else, especially connectors with any voltage on them whatsoever, because you would want to ground the foil and you will do significant damage (and blow fuses) if your connections get shorted to ground.

Alternatively, you could also buy shielded conduit (which is non-conductive on the outside) and run all the opto wires through that and just ground the shielding.

That being said, the twisting is easy to do. If you're nervous about it, just to be absolutely sure you put the right opto on the right pins, take a couple different colored sharpies and put a colored dot on the connectors and then as you remove them, put a colored dot on the plastic between the pins. then it's virtually impossible to plug them in wrong.

Prior to the way Stern labels the opto connectors, and with all my old Wms machines, I always put tags on every cable leading to a connector on the boards and under the playfield. I have a Brother labeler machine that prints the paper adhesive labels so I just make labels (J116, J111, etc) and wrap them around each cable. Two seconds of prevention is worth an hour of back-tracking trying figure out where sh*t goes!

The optos are transceivers, (they work as transmitter or receiver) you can't really damage anything if you plug them in the wrong spot. Plus they are labeled. Why buy sheilding when all you need to do is twist?

Happy for everyone that a solution was found. That shot is much more fun when working correctly.

Just to be 100% I twist the wire with another wire or twist the wire on its own?

Cheers

Ok, I did the "twist". It wasn't hard, and I've played a few games with no issues so far! Thanks again!

Each opto has two wires (they are attached to each other) going to it. You twist that pair. Should be fairly clear in the picture i posted.

Exactly. You twist the pair to create a double helix. It will look like this when you are done:

twisted wire.png

Thanks just wanted to make sure much appreciated.

Another case closed. Solved the issue on my LE right away, twist those wires! The power of Pinside gets the job done again.

I just did the twist on each of the 4 pairs. First game, first shot on the captured ball and the 2nd ball hung on the magnet until the clock ran out like so many times before. Hoping for at least better performance. I'll try a different route for the wires as well.

How many twists did you do? I twisted mine A LOT!

try a ferrite bead on the wires. cheap, easy and won't harm anything. alternatively, you could buy a ferrite torroid (an "O") and wrap the opto wires round and around the "O". If you're going to go the ferrite bead route, put them close to the opto board.

small ferrite cores are like $0.30-$0.50 each. At ham radio swap 'n shops you can buy a bag of them for a couple bucks.

LP30,

Have you got it working yet, or are you still having problems?

I twisted all 4 wires connecting to the opto board beneath the Vengeance ship to the point where they started twisting on themselves. I still occasionally get the 2 balls getting hung up, though it is occurring less often. Should I have twisted 2 or 4 of the wire pairs together, or is there a specific route for the wires that would correct the problem completely? I am wondering if I need to get some type of shielding around the wires instead. Any thoughts?

The twisting alone fixed it on my machine, but given the fact that some people never experienced the problem in the first place, there is obviously a large variance in the amount of stray EMI from one game to the next. If the twisted wire trick alone didn't fully resolve the problem on your machine, I'd suggest adding some ferrite beads as well. We know what the problem is, it's just a matter of fully tackling it on every game.

I had cold solder joints on my game, if the optos don't work right in switch tests you need to fix or replace the transceivers. I only twisted the wires that run from the right side of the magnet, also tried to keep them as far from the magnet as possible.

I have still not twisted my wires and have only had one hang-up since re-routing my wires. I'll twist for good measure when I'm under the hood next time, but so far I can't complain. Pretty much just get those wires as far away from the magnet as you can with the length that they gave you. There is quite a bit of slack knotted up that you can straighten out and use to your advantage. For anyone still having trouble after twisting, make sure you reroute also.

Just following up. My game continues to work great. I only had one incident where the balls stuck together since I applied the fix. Has anyone gotten confirmation from Stern that they are aware of this issue and are implementing changes in the new games being built?

I can't say what Stern will or will not do, but I forwarded this thread to Patrick at Stern and he thanked me in response.

I'm still 100 percent.

Same here!

No more problems for me either!!

I loved that game as a kid!

Does anyone know whether Stern implemented this fix on new production machines?

That's a good question. They haven't issued a service bulletin about it yet, which seems long overdue.

Just wondering as I will be getting a new one soon, and it would be nice to know that I don't have to worry about it. If not, at least there is this thread and the power of pinside. The fix seems relatively easy.

Don't let this thread throw off your perspective. For each person who had a problem with this, there are probably hundreds who don't. You won't see a Pinside thread called "Chime in if your Vengeance magnet is working perfectly".

I agree that a thread such as this can make the problem appear more prevalent than it really is, but enough games seem to be affected by the issue that a service bulletin is surely warranted.

You can add me to the list. I have STLE # 012 and I have had this problem from day one but it's not all the time. Sometime it works like it should and sometimes it will hold the second ball. It doesn't matter if it's a soft or hard hit. I have seen a hard hit knock the first ball off the magnet and the second ball stops on the magnet.
I haven't tried the twisting wire fix yet. I have been keeping an eye on this thread to see if Stern ever admits theirs a problem and what fix they come up with but I am not holding my breath. If their's no official fix by the time they release the new code then I guess I will twist my wires.
I was playing tonight and my red DMD display developed the dot out vertical red line syndrome but that's another story.

My premium worked great out of the box , about six times , then I had the old balls sticking together . Thanks for the thread showing the fix , worked great.

New Premium owner - twisted the wires while doing the pinbits install. Had an issue my first game (prior to twisting...), but since then, started Vengeance multiple times with no hangups whatsoever.

Thank you guys for finding this fix!

I'll bet you see the new machines have the wires twisted from the factory.

Mine is new , straight from the factory two weeks ago . Wires were bundled up in zip ties right across the magnet . I had to cut the zips and twist them myself for the problem to go away .

This is really disappointing to hear. I know for a fact that Stern is aware of this thread. Why haven't they addressed this issue yet?

Good question , it was very frustrating until I found this thread .

I just received a new one. Shipped on Thursday the 12th. Knock on wood, but I haven't had an issue yet. Have only played it for a few days, but have played Vengence multiball several times. I haven't had a chance to lift the playfield yet to see if Stern did anything.

Does everyone have this problem, or only some? Is it intermittent?

I never have this problem, it seems like you either get it all the time or you just don't. Which given the solution makes sense.

For the most part my ST has worked, but I have some hang ups with the magnet, so I figured I would implement the fix.
Cracked a beer(Dogfish 90min) and then went to work. Knew I had seen the picture below, so I brought it up as a reference.
Unplugged the cables, twisted wires, plugged back in. Figured I'd double check picture to make sure everything looked kosher.
It was at this moment the panic set in, and I started questioning whether the Dogfish had gotten the best of me.

Regained my sense of composure, and figured out this is a difference between the boards on Pro and the Prem/LE. The sections in question are highlighted.

The first picture is from Kneissl's Pro:
222030-i.jpg

Here is the picture from my Prem of the same area:
14454078532_e6429bfbf5_b-2.jpg

On the Prem, nothing is connected to Board 5 at J3/J4
Here is the picture from the manual that I looked up to confirm my sanity:
14454317984_abbcc55fa8_b-655.jpg

Figured I would put this out to save any future twisters some confusion.

Do I need to twist both sets of the wires? I think I only have one set twisted and that may be why my ball keeps getting stuck on the magnet...

Yes, twist both and make sure the wires are tied away from the magnet.